6 ms·

Oh man, I take it you've never operated this part of a scaled business before. Wouldn't you like to know the absolute crap that comes through those forms...and

by mbesto 2y ago

Oh man, I take it you've never operated this part of a scaled business before. Wouldn't you like to know the absolute crap that comes through those forms...and yes even from those who have the intent of "I want to pay more than the self service price tag".

tjoff 2y ago
Feels well deserved though? Treat your customers as shit etc.
- mbesto 2y ago
  lol what? > Treat your customers as shit etc. They aren't your customers unless they start paying you. That's the point.
  - cratermoon 2y ago
    Treat your potential customers as shit, then.
    - mbesto 2y ago
      If they're shit potential customers then yes that's exactly the point. As you might have read in other comments, the point of the form is to create a filtering mechanism to sift out the shit.
      - carlosjobim 2y ago
        Here's how we filter out shit customers at my company: We publish our god damned prices clearly.
        CapcomGo 2y ago
        What companies post the pricing of b2b? Does Apple? Intel? Any major tech company? No, they have salespeople that handle b2b.
        carlosjobim 2y ago
        Do you think for example Intel gets contacted by "shit customers"? If a business is communicating clearly that they only offer very expensive solutions to very big customers, they're not going to be contacted by small fry.
  - elevatedastalt 2y ago
    They will never _become_ your customers if you don't give them a chance to pay you. Websites that put a cart online with a checkout process manage to get "customers" just fine. If you think you want to give everyone a custom quote then don't complain when people ask for one.
    - mbesto 2y ago
      > Websites that put a cart online with a checkout process manage to get "customers" just fine. Actually this is a funny point to bring up - believe it or not, there are legitimate situations in which a potential customer requires that they speak to someone or they will simply ignore the company. So as a software provider, it's absolutely true that you may indeed miss out on potential revenue if you dont have an established channel that isn't a "simple online cart".
      - elevatedastalt 2y ago
        Completely agreed. A good solution allows low-friction transactions to happen very easily, while keeping the option open for more deliberation. But from your previous comments, although you are singing praises for the custom solution, you actually find it annoying when people use it?
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        > there are legitimate situations in which a potential customer requires that they speak to someone or they will simply ignore the company. That's a good point. There are a lot of those, and a significant fraction is about some information critical to the customer, that is not present or not entirely obvious on the site. Things like: - Are you double-plus sure that when I order a violet widget, I get a violet widget? The UI isn't inspiring confidence, and there's a deadline, so unless I can be certain, I'll go with the more expensive vendor whose site is more clear on that. - There's bunch of bank holidays and stuffs coming up in the next couple days; I need to be sure you'll send the package tomorrow at the latest, or it'll hit a weekend and then a holiday and it'll arrive late, by which time it'll be worthless for me. Etc. I've abandoned plenty of carts due to inability to clarify things like that, and I've many times significantly overpaid just to deal with a vendor or system where I don't need to ask for clarification in the first place. Still, here's the thing: in each case, I had enough information already that I knew I want to buy. I knew the costs and delivery estimates and exact models/parameters. Without all those information, I wouldn't be calling to clarify - I wouldn't consider buying in the first place.
gwbas1c 2y ago
> Wouldn't you like to know the absolute crap that comes through those forms Usually it's because too much is hidden. Not a SAS, but I once tapped an ad for redoing my shower. No prices, no way to know even approximately what it should cost. I wanted more information, but I didn't want a phone call. I filled out the form asking for some high-level information on pricing, and that I didn't want a phone call. Needless to say, the rep never responded to my inquiry. But, put yourself in my situation: I don't want calls at random times of the day that are convenient to a salesman. I want to talk on the phone at a time that's convenient to ME, and only if I know the (ballpark) range of what you're selling costs. If a new shower costs $5k, and I won't be in a position to spend that for 18 months, I want to know that I should pick up the phone then, not now.
- mbesto 2y ago
  > Usually it's because too much is hidden. No. It's. Not. You get crap inbound because the process is frictionless. > I wanted more information, but I didn't want a phone call. I filled out the form asking for some high-level information on pricing, and that I didn't want a phone call. Needless to say, the rep never responded to my inquiry. But, put yourself in my situation: I don't want calls at random times of the day that are convenient to a salesman. I want to talk on the phone at a time that's convenient to ME, and only if I know the (ballpark) range of what you're selling costs. If a new shower costs $5k, and I won't be in a position to spend that for 18 months, I want to know that I should pick up the phone then, not now. I feel you. I really do. I've been in this position before. But until you operate a business at scale and see what absolute utter crap comes through the door, only then will you really understand what's behind the scenes.
  - ses1984 2y ago
    It’s. Both. Maybe if transparent pricing were posted, some people would choose not to submit, but it won’t stop all the crap from coming in.
    - refulgentis 2y ago
      They're right, at least a third is nonsense slop. You're also right that some fraction wouldn't be contacting asking for information if the information was more readily available. They're not shitting on customers and abdicating responsibility for making a better website. They're pointing out something important and unintuitive. I don't know how to bridge a conversational gap like this because it really is something to experience. Another form of it is job applications. At least 1/3 is just random people. To try to show some humility beyond "bro u ever done this???": - My mentally disabled sister, tested at 4th grade level at her peak, and would often spend days applying for random jobs that sounded cool. I'm not talking like "oh Dairy Queen cashier.", I mean, director/CXO etc. - At my first company, we'd get a contact every 3-6 months, with demo-like questions from the same person. We were small enough that we couldn't chase every lead, made enough money we didn't have to, and I didn't like encouraging active salesmanship. After a couple years, someone followed up asking what his business was like. It was an 11 year old using a point of sale app to get drink orders from his friends from the family pool.

by mbesto 2y ago

tjoff 2y ago

Feels well deserved though? Treat your customers as shit etc.

mbesto 2y ago
lol what? > Treat your customers as shit etc. They aren't your customers unless they start paying you. That's the point.
- cratermoon 2y ago
  Treat your potential customers as shit, then.
  - mbesto 2y ago
    If they're shit potential customers then yes that's exactly the point. As you might have read in other comments, the point of the form is to create a filtering mechanism to sift out the shit.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      Here's how we filter out shit customers at my company: We publish our god damned prices clearly.
      - CapcomGo 2y ago
        What companies post the pricing of b2b? Does Apple? Intel? Any major tech company? No, they have salespeople that handle b2b.
        carlosjobim 2y ago
        Do you think for example Intel gets contacted by "shit customers"? If a business is communicating clearly that they only offer very expensive solutions to very big customers, they're not going to be contacted by small fry.
- elevatedastalt 2y ago
  They will never _become_ your customers if you don't give them a chance to pay you. Websites that put a cart online with a checkout process manage to get "customers" just fine. If you think you want to give everyone a custom quote then don't complain when people ask for one.
  - mbesto 2y ago
    > Websites that put a cart online with a checkout process manage to get "customers" just fine. Actually this is a funny point to bring up - believe it or not, there are legitimate situations in which a potential customer requires that they speak to someone or they will simply ignore the company. So as a software provider, it's absolutely true that you may indeed miss out on potential revenue if you dont have an established channel that isn't a "simple online cart".
    - elevatedastalt 2y ago
      Completely agreed. A good solution allows low-friction transactions to happen very easily, while keeping the option open for more deliberation. But from your previous comments, although you are singing praises for the custom solution, you actually find it annoying when people use it?
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      > there are legitimate situations in which a potential customer requires that they speak to someone or they will simply ignore the company. That's a good point. There are a lot of those, and a significant fraction is about some information critical to the customer, that is not present or not entirely obvious on the site. Things like: - Are you double-plus sure that when I order a violet widget, I get a violet widget? The UI isn't inspiring confidence, and there's a deadline, so unless I can be certain, I'll go with the more expensive vendor whose site is more clear on that. - There's bunch of bank holidays and stuffs coming up in the next couple days; I need to be sure you'll send the package tomorrow at the latest, or it'll hit a weekend and then a holiday and it'll arrive late, by which time it'll be worthless for me. Etc. I've abandoned plenty of carts due to inability to clarify things like that, and I've many times significantly overpaid just to deal with a vendor or system where I don't need to ask for clarification in the first place. Still, here's the thing: in each case, I had enough information already that I knew I want to buy. I knew the costs and delivery estimates and exact models/parameters. Without all those information, I wouldn't be calling to clarify - I wouldn't consider buying in the first place.

gwbas1c 2y ago

> Wouldn't you like to know the absolute crap that comes through those forms Usually it's because too much is hidden. Not a SAS, but I once tapped an ad for redoing my shower. No prices, no way to know even approximately what it should cost. I wanted more information, but I didn't want a phone call. I filled out the form asking for some high-level information on pricing, and that I didn't want a phone call. Needless to say, the rep never responded to my inquiry. But, put yourself in my situation: I don't want calls at random times of the day that are convenient to a salesman. I want to talk on the phone at a time that's convenient to ME, and only if I know the (ballpark) range of what you're selling costs. If a new shower costs $5k, and I won't be in a position to spend that for 18 months, I want to know that I should pick up the phone then, not now.

mbesto 2y ago
> Usually it's because too much is hidden. No. It's. Not. You get crap inbound because the process is frictionless. > I wanted more information, but I didn't want a phone call. I filled out the form asking for some high-level information on pricing, and that I didn't want a phone call. Needless to say, the rep never responded to my inquiry. But, put yourself in my situation: I don't want calls at random times of the day that are convenient to a salesman. I want to talk on the phone at a time that's convenient to ME, and only if I know the (ballpark) range of what you're selling costs. If a new shower costs $5k, and I won't be in a position to spend that for 18 months, I want to know that I should pick up the phone then, not now. I feel you. I really do. I've been in this position before. But until you operate a business at scale and see what absolute utter crap comes through the door, only then will you really understand what's behind the scenes.
- ses1984 2y ago
  It’s. Both. Maybe if transparent pricing were posted, some people would choose not to submit, but it won’t stop all the crap from coming in.
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    They're right, at least a third is nonsense slop. You're also right that some fraction wouldn't be contacting asking for information if the information was more readily available. They're not shitting on customers and abdicating responsibility for making a better website. They're pointing out something important and unintuitive. I don't know how to bridge a conversational gap like this because it really is something to experience. Another form of it is job applications. At least 1/3 is just random people. To try to show some humility beyond "bro u ever done this???": - My mentally disabled sister, tested at 4th grade level at her peak, and would often spend days applying for random jobs that sounded cool. I'm not talking like "oh Dairy Queen cashier.", I mean, director/CXO etc. - At my first company, we'd get a contact every 3-6 months, with demo-like questions from the same person. We were small enough that we couldn't chase every lead, made enough money we didn't have to, and I didn't like encouraging active salesmanship. After a couple years, someone followed up asking what his business was like. It was an 11 year old using a point of sale app to get drink orders from his friends from the family pool.