11 ms·

I'm the hacker that brought down North Korea's Internet for over a week. AMA

172 points by consumer451 2y ago

brendadavis22 2y ago
[flagged]
euphetar 2y ago
It's 100% clear why his I initiative was buried. The guy is a reckless egomaniac jerk. He is very transparent that he would do illegal stuff on a whim, target civillians, escalate conflict with other nations without even consulting a superior, and then reveal his face to the whole world, spilling secrets left and right, for a minute of internet publicity. And do a reddit AMA. And put "I am single LOL" there, showing just how much he can be trusted with leading a government cyberwarfare task force What I read is that guy did a clever DDoS, which is mildly impressive, and decided to become a twitter celebrity/NK assassination victim. I am no hacker, but I expect real hackers to be laughing their asses off.
paganel 2y ago
Why isn’t he in prison? I mean, going by the West’s own laws, or the spirit of them, anyway. Unless he is part of said West’s Armed Forces, in which case this would get really close to a casus belli.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  Because the "rules based order" means a diferent set of rules for different situations. If it's something "we like", then it's ok, if not, then prison. Same for geopolitics... in one case, we care about teritorial integrity, that minorities should not seced, and in others we help with the breakup of countries... well.. or in some cases, we act is if nothing is happening at all, and noone wants to break away at all :)
  - pacija 2y ago
    Ајсе Cрбине реци им како ствари стоје, ја покушавам ал сам увек флегд :)
- derelicta 2y ago
  No no no, ofc its morally justified to do such thing against impoverished nations! After all, if they are subjected to famine-inducing embargoes, they probably deserve it!
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    Self imposed poverty due to the authoritarianism. They’re the bad guys, we care less if bad things happen to them.
    - atlantic 2y ago
      [flagged]
- Keirmot 2y ago
  Because one of the 3 basic principles of sovereignty (as is understood by western political philosophy, known as Westphalian sovereignty) is that there is no other authority inside a State’s borders except its own. This means no other country has jurisdiction in North Korea, besides, there’s also no incentive to help in case DPRK asks for help. France doesn’t investigante crimes that happen in Spain, Portugal doesn’t investigate crimes that haven in Canada, the USA doesn’t investigate crimes that happen in Germany, etc…
  - sitkack 2y ago
    The FBI has offices around the world.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > western political philosophy, known as Westphalian sovereignty) is that there is no other authority inside a State’s borders except its own You’re citing centuries-old political philosophy, only remnants of which remain in our world [1]. The West that arose after WWII and through the Cold War is decidedly non-Westphalian. Concepts like human rights, non-proliferation and self determination are non-Westphalian. The Nuremberg trials were anti-Westphalian. The closest modern analogues to (and proponents of) Westphalian philosophy are Russia, China and North Korea. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system
    - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
      These "proponents" seem less strict about applying this philosophy to states other than their own.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        The Westphalian treaties gave France, Sweden and later Russia the explicit right to intercede to guarantee the Imperial constitution [1]. (Westphalia was concerned with the Holy Roman Empire.) Westphalian sovereignty as a historical concern is a myth [2]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantor_of_the_imperial_constitution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantor_of_the_imperial_co... [2] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-organization/article/abs/sovereignty-international-relations-and-the-westphalian-myth/33B6B7773432BE494F31518952ABE881 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-organi...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Why isn’t he in prison? Not an enforcement priority for the same reason a lot of domestic abuse goes unprotected: the victim is uncoöperative. > going by the West’s own laws, or the spirit of them, anyway Pyongyang and prosecutors would have to show he attacked a “protected computer” under the CFAA [1]. Given the two routers he allegedly overwhelmed were internet connected, that shouldn’t technically be hard under Trotter and Kane. But it would be a novel expansion of interstate commerce to encompass a country with whom Americans cannot legally trade, i.e. do commerce. Put another way, North Korea’s status as a sanctioned country might put this into a legal grey area—it might not be criminally punishable. To settle that question would take a lot of prosecutorial resources. It’s not clear those are well spent on a case where the witness won’t coöperate. [1] https://www.coreyvarma.com/2015/01/what-is-the-computer-fraud-and-abuse-act-cfaa/#protected_computer https://www.coreyvarma.com/2015/01/what-is-the-computer-frau...
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Privateering is back, baby!
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Privateering is back Good point: a final hurdle inhibiting criminality is his lack of profits. No disgorgeable gains. That means you’re only left with damages, which again, requires the victim’s coöperation to assess.
    - Sabinus 2y ago
      It's already back, Russian, Chinese and North Korean hacking groups receive state funding and cover.
  - teekert 2y ago
    I can imagine he did piss of some agencies? I mean other states could have mapped NK's whole infra, made a plan to take down NK's internet when "needed" (i.e. in case of some event)... Then some dude triggers it just for fun... Some things are too big to just mess around with, I would feel extremely vulnerable having pulled such a stunt.
- jauer 2y ago
  "the West" has to keep some degree of not officially caring to avoid being backed into a policy corner and has no incentive to take law enforcement action when threat actors in those other countries operate with impunity. We're already well into causus belli territory with NK, but nobody wants to go there: https://x.com/tarah/status/1798036415932187127 https://x.com/tarah/status/1798036415932187127
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    That link doesn't really explain what exactly it's talking about, it's a single reply with the original post invisible and all replies invisible. It speaks of a cyberattack without mentioning which one.
    - jauer 2y ago
      It works for me? That's normal behavior if you aren't signed into Twitter :( Summary of thread: Society doesn't handle 2nd order consequences well. NK cryptolocker attack on healthcare-involved systems in British hospitals disrupted treatment to the extent that hundreds of people died who probably wouldn't have. Expanding on that: Organized crime groups located in and sometimes tasked by RU SVR & GRU (not to mention NK state groups) have caused sufficient disruption to US healthcare systems to have indirectly caused more US Citizen deaths than the Sept 11 attacks. Right now cyber that does not directly cause destruction such as making buildings blow up or poisoning water supply is treated as just an annoying white collar crime. I don't think anyone wants the US Government to be in a position where their options are to admit powerlessness or get proportional against nuclear armed states. Somewhat related: https://blogs.icrc.org/law-and-policy/2023/10/04/8-rules-civilian-hackers-war-4-obligations-states-restrain-them/ https://blogs.icrc.org/law-and-policy/2023/10/04/8-rules-civ...
- Rebelgecko 2y ago
  Has NK asked to extradite him? Maybe a swap for the sony hackers?
- DocTomoe 2y ago
  Don't worry, the North Koreans, if sufficiently pissed, will take care of him.
- csomar 2y ago
  > Why isn’t he in prison? He very much could, if politics changed. The US hates NK not because they are authoritarian but because they are not aligned. If they were to be aligned, and this guy didn't act on proper authorization, he could find himself in hot waters in the USA. Plus he might have broken a bunch of "international" rules which could see him in trouble if he was to travel to some countries. It is really reckless; but then there is a good chance he was acting behind some agency.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > there is a good chance he was acting behind some agency Almost certainly not. The vector would have been saved. And he wouldn’t have maintained this public profile ex post facto. Consider, for example, taking it down during today’s state visit? (After you’ve quadruple checked that the Russians have independent connectivity.)
- EasyMark 2y ago
  It would take someone that wanted to prosecute him. If his story is real he deserves a medal and possibly a job at the NSA/CIA instead of a court date.
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
cryptica 2y ago
The hacker doesn't understand what they're getting themselves into, especially bragging about it. The hard part about going up against an entire nation/state is that it's relentless. The state never gets tired and never runs out of money, they could setup a team of people to 'work' on that individual and also potentially his present and future family members for a very long time. They can keep replenishing their teams with more people. The state always has a few people to spare for high-exposure targets. The leaders of that state might even forget about the existence of the individual but the operation will keep going until it's canceled... But since they forgot about the operation in the first place, it will keep going until there is some kind of broader administrative restructuring, cost-cutting or something... Which could be a long time away. Few things are more terrifying than totalitarian state bureaucracy.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  Yep, it seems way too many people know who he is irl. I would be not sleep well for the coming decade at least.
  - cryptica 2y ago
    Yeah and North Korea is known for punishing family members. It's just foolish to brag like that. Probably worse than the hack itself.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Eh, he’s probably safer than if he’d hacked a cartel. North Korea isn’t known for its tradecraft in the United States.
    - heywoods 2y ago
      While it's true that North Korea's tradecraft within the U.S. might not be as sophisticated as some fear, the situation isn't so straightforward. Given the significant public exposure of this case and the individual's prior connections within the U.S. government, NK would need to carefully weigh their options. I would wager that if NK would attempt to harm this hacker it would be through using third parties like cartels or local gangs. This could offer NK plausible deniability and physical access to the target, but it also complicates their operational control and increases the risk of exposure. The calculus for NK would include considerations such as: - The individual's public and former government status, which might provoke a stronger U.S. response if harmed. NK would have to vet the hackers assertions that he still has meaningful and significant contacts within the USG. - The cost and complexity of outsourcing such an operation discretely. - The types of U.S. responses that might follow, from diplomatic measures to cyber counterattacks. While an attack via third parties is plausible, and given these factors which I am sure there are others I haven't considered, it would require NK to balance the benefits against the potential repercussions and the likelihood of successful attribution. But I am very confident that if they do follow through it will be using a cartel or local gang as proxy for the reasons I mentioned. P4x's public disclosures and technical skills make him a unique target, but as he himself noted, the operational capabilities of North Korea within the U.S. are limited. It's a nuanced threat landscape where indirect methods might be considered but are not guaranteed to succeed without significant risks.
verisimi 2y ago
Nothing about this ama/article suggests that NK is anything but a Potemkin country - a false baddie for others to hide behind. The NK idea is useful to agencies, in certain circumstances.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Potemkin country Maybe they’re another Russia, their tanks and artillery all crumpets. But maybe not. They have a lot of them on paper [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Korean_People%27s_Army_Ground_Force https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Kor...
  - lye 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- bagels 2y ago
  They have missiles and nuclear weapons.
golergka 2y ago
He contradicts himself left and right. In one comment, he writes that they will never come after him, in another that he's seriously concerned. He writes that he has a lot of serious connections in the DoD up to the highest level, and then explains that he has a way to stop any attack from NK, but nobody will even listen to him.
- throwaway8877 2y ago
  The last two points are not contradictory.
- rl3 2y ago
  If only those stupid bureaucrats who have probably maintained persistence inside NK networks for the past two or three decades would just listen.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
londons_explore 2y ago
Such an attack is, IMO, morally dubious. North Korea is a poor country with millions of starving citizens, and rather than sending food aid, you broke down their only comms to the rest of the world?
- throwaway8877 2y ago
  They are heavily sanctioned criminal country that is openly aiding a genocidal regime. If anything is then your comment is morally dubious.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- gorbachev 2y ago
  Yes and no. Only the elite in that country has access to the Internet. The starving citizens do not have access to the Internet, and even if they do/did, they're so heavily monitored the minute they even glanced at something controversial they'd be shipped to a concentration camp.
  - csomar 2y ago
    > Only the elite in that country has access to the Internet. Sure, but then the overall population might be depending on it indirectly.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - kjkjadksj 2y ago
      How much did you indirectly depend on Golf Digest when President Trump was reading it in office?
  - herbst 2y ago
    It depends what the 'hacker' took down. They have their own intranet that is available for more or less all citizens since 2022
throwaway8877 2y ago
So if it was down, how did it affect global security metrics?
- iJohnDoe 2y ago
  This is a good point that no one has really pointed out based on my skimming, except for the OP saying they could stop all NK based attacks, which I’m guessing is based on blocking the 2 country routers. However, a minimal amount of cyber attacks probably actually originate from NK directly. It’s known the NK hackers are trained in China and attacks probably flow through compromised VPS accounts, VPNs, open proxies, and open SOCKS-5 located around the world. The NK hackers could be sitting in NK using the systems I referenced above to do their attacks and were not able to because they couldn’t connect to the internet. Maybe so, but they are most likely usually sitting in China and other locations.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
aorloff 2y ago
Is anyone mining bitcoin in DPRK ?
- EasyMark 2y ago
  I highly doubt that, it’s quite a lot for the system to power the 1% elites, the palace, and the ballistic missile factories.
  - aorloff 2y ago
    Which is why it would be so interesting
- iJohnDoe 2y ago
  Even if they really wanted to there isn’t enough electricity in NK. Lots of articles written about the minimal amount of emitting lights seen at night.
WesternWind 2y ago
I'm unsure on the ethics of this. Yes only the elite have the internet, but also the internet is likely used internally for communication, which is important for resource distribution. I don't give two shits about the elite in NK, but the starving folks living there have my deepest sympathy. I'm lucky to have a lot of advantages, and I can't help but see many of them as an accident of birth.
- joecool1029 2y ago
  > I'm unsure on the ethics of this. I think I can make it simple. Would love to hear of any cases refuting this. If the country is on the US State Department's 'Sponsored' program list (currently DPRK, Iran, Sudan, and Cuba) it doesn't count. Florida terrorism ok, you get a pass and called a hero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles Comparing to other more recent Florida originated attack on against a poor country, the assassination of Haiti's president. Haiti is not on that country approval list, go directly to jail: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-florida-men-arrested-plot-kill-haitian-president-grand-jury-returns-indictment-against https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-florida-men-arrested-plo...
- KoolKat23 2y ago
  So basically the elites are using the internet to control (feeding) the starving folk. No internet means less control. Brings them closer to the starving folks level, more chance of actually being a "people's republic" then. There's not much government worth salvaging in that country, basically an army. The only loss would be them improving their security now. Other world governments may have left that vulnerability untouched purely in case they need to use it at a later stage.
- codezero 2y ago
  The only person responsible for the starving people in NK is their dictator that keeps them in those conditions.
vasco 2y ago
These supposed messages between him and the state department lead me to believe it's either all or mostly exagerations or lies: https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge of some regionalism, but doesn't it seem very odd that a technical person would use "in the open source", to refer not to code, but to a PR article on some news website?
- shzhdbi09gv8ioi 2y ago
  See OSINT. It's well established terminology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_intelligence
  - vasco 2y ago
    Thanks, never heard this in just technical circles but haven't been close to any security work.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    It's a weird term. My impression is that it mostly means "randos LARPing spies", though there's a commercial angle too, it being to intelligence what PMCs are to the military. May or may not be called after "Open Source Publishing, Incorporated", featured here: [0]. -- [0] - https://irp.fas.org/congress/2005_hr/062105jardines.pdf https://irp.fas.org/congress/2005_hr/062105jardines.pdf
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      it is not a weird term, and is absolutely a thing. a big deal in 2024, really. back in the day it was just "reading the newspapers and talking to the local cab drivers", but on 2024 you're scanning forums and social media, on top of news sites. go to a military-related subreddit and start asking questions about stuff, and you'll eventually get an expert to chime in. Make wrong & stupid claims and then have them slap you down and spill some details -- that's how they got dudes to release classified tank info in Warthunder. dudes in Palestine and in Ukraine are getting killed because they post selfies and tweets that have GPS coordinates in the metadata. Not hidden behind any top secret firewall, easy to find if you're checking VK or Instagram, but very real implications for dropping bombs. OSINT is also absolutely a thing in Cyber, where you can get a lot of details about a target by reading their press releases -- "Corp X signs big new deal with Oracle" -- which can give you a new attack surface. Phishing, on a long, broad timeline, has a very high success rate, so go onto Linkedin and start connecting to people. Figure out their tech stack, create a Sales Guy account, and start reaching out to Architects and Managers, and then map out the teams that might have elevated access...
sim7c00 2y ago
i hope no poor IT engineer in NK and his family for 10 generations isnt going to be sent to workcamps because of this joke.
- codezero 2y ago
  The only person to blame for that behavior is the chaotic and capricious dictator taking these actions against the population he is oppressing.
  - sim7c00 2y ago
    just like car manufacturers are the only people responsible for accidents on the road?
    - codezero 2y ago
      No. Not at all.
1234554321a 2y ago
It’s legal to hack North Korean infrastructure? Might be a good way to test out your hacking skills.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  Sounds like a terrible way. One screw up, and then you have one of the worst nations on earth in every metric with an axe to grind against you. No thanks. Meetups in Vegas hotels seem a lot safer and more fun to practice hacking skills.
INTPenis 2y ago
The thing I took away from this is that Putin is visiting a country with two routers running their whole internet, and these are his partners.
instagraham 2y ago
How much exposure of the regular internet do North Korean hackers have? What are the odds of turning them?
- Sabinus 2y ago
  None. This was a middle finger to the NK State apparatus and that's about all.
  - sureglymop 2y ago
    I think this was a pretty stupid joke. Especially if the OP is an individual. Making a nation state your adversary as merely a sole individual is something you never ever want to even risk. Any rational human being (not just hacker) would know or recognize that. Very often it is ego that directly leads to doing irrational actions like this.
    - rpdillon 2y ago
      North Korea was already targeting him. The hack was in retaliation.
  - codezero 2y ago
    Not true, there are/were North Korean hackers actively using platforms like Hackerone and other lesser known SaaS that haven't implemented KYC for training.
Sabinus 2y ago
>Like many other US hackers and security researchers, Caceres had been personally targeted by North Korean spies who aimed to steal his intrusion tools. He had detailed that targeting to the FBI but received no real government support. So he decided to take matters into his own hands and to send a message to the regime of Kim Jong Un: Messing with American hackers would have consequences. “It felt like the right thing to do here,” Caceres told WIRED at the time. “If they don’t see we have teeth, it’s just going to keep coming.” Indescribably based.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- akira2501 2y ago
  Hardly. He's creating tools that interest state actors with no real means of defending himself or the tools. If he's that concerned he could just destroy the tools, but he wants to have his cake and eat it too. Then, in response to what should have been an obvious outcome to his actions, he commits what should be described as a "crime against humanity" against the entire communications infrastructure of a foreign country with nuclear weapons. There is nothing based here. This is stupid with a tinge of greed and ego mixed in.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - valianteffort 2y ago
    Glad someone is saying this. Some obnoxious moron putting countless lives in danger to virtue signal has gotta be a new low on the internet retard scale.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      Whose lives did he put in danger? Also, if the entirety of the US goverment will not protect you from foreign state-sanctioned personal attacks, what should one do? Just sit there and take it, even if one could stop it? > The State Department has a thing called "Rewards for Justice" and they talk extensively about the NK problem and how we're being hacked all the time. They pay millions for information. I told them "I don't want any of your money, I want you to know who I am [insert wired article here] and that I can listerally make any attack coming from the country North Korea stop in its tracks within minutes. Let me grab their response: > https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA > Just be ready to be fucking infuriated. They have a bunch of shit about how we need to take on the NK cyber threat. I literally give them a SOLUTION and they say it's not within their purview, go to other intelligence agencies. I told them I FUCKING DID. No response since. https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1divlp3/im_the_hacker_that_brought_down_north_koreas/l974i3c/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1divlp3/im_the_hacker...
_xivi 2y ago
Related: North Korea hacked him, so he took down its internet - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30180566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30180566 - Feb 2022 (238 comments)
operator2140 2y ago
Talk about delusions of grandeur. He knocked a few public facing HTTP hosts offline, amazing! I can “a bring down North Korea’s internet” aka a few public hosts for a week too if I rent Lizard Squads stresser for $400 a week. What’s supposed to be impressive about that?
- resolutebat 2y ago
  No, he knocked out the two routers serving the entire country. NK sites were inaccessible to the outside world, and outside sites were inaccessible to NK.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    But very very few North Koreans even have access to the internet. Regular people just have access to a local intranet with censored information. That exercise that Russia did a few years ago to see if they could function cut off from the internet? For north Korea that's the regular self-imposed status quo. I don't think it will have had much impact on daily life there.
    - 4fterd4rk 2y ago
      But it would have had a big impact on the lives of the elites in the country, which are the people you want to hurt to put pressure on the regime.
voidUpdate 2y ago
I'm a little confused by the news stories about this. Did he take down their country-wide network, or just the few lines in and out of the country? It seems like he just hit a few NK websites and they everything stopped responding to him. Its like cutting the uk-europe power links and saying you took down all of the UK's power infrastructure
- resolutebat 2y ago
  Only the lines in/out. NK has their own intranet which is completely separate from the global internet, which was presumably entirely unaffected by this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network)
  - voidUpdate 2y ago
    So not really much effect on the system then, overall
  - doublerabbit 2y ago
    > North Koreans often find it more convenient to access sites by their IP address rather than by domain name using Latin characters Don't blame them. Enom fee's are extortionate. And when DNS breaks it still works.
efilife 2y ago
I'm shocked that he shows his face and identifies himself willingly
- mianosm 2y ago
  Big "lifelock" vibes...and if I understand it correctly, that lifelock character has had his identity successfully stolen and impacted multiple times. Sometimes the person who says "I'm really smart, like mensa level", does some really ignorant and stupid things.
  - washadjeffmad 2y ago
    Sometimes you're also just hoping to find someone or something out there that interests you.
- jrexilius 2y ago
  I worked with him briefly on another project and he was pretty comfy and open about the whole thing. In fact I think I remember him mentioning doing a talk at a conference about it. He's a genuinely nice guy and fairly laid back about things. NK regime maybe is annoyed with him, but there is an almost zero probability of them being able to do anything other than digital harrassment to him.
  - influx 2y ago
    Considering they have performed assassinations outside of their soil, I would be slightly concerned.
    - quickthrowman 2y ago
      They assassinated a potential rival for the throne. The situations are not even remotely similar. Killing a US citizen on US soil would not go down well.
      - influx 2y ago
jrexilius 2y ago
There are a couple good points in the linked Wired article, such as the fact that the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, and North Korea are already escalating attacks on civillian and commercial targets and our restraint isn't being matched. I fully understand why the US and partner governments won't be able to respond in kind, but there is certainly a lot more that could be done in that domain.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  There are people that are in offensive cyber security in the US government, but realistically they have a bit more moral compass than the other state level actors that try and bring a hospital to its knees for the grand goal of making america look stupid for the nationalistic few who might actually care about that sort of thing. There's a saying we have here about never wrestling a pig in the mud: you will both be dirty but the pig will like it.
  - whaleofatw2022 2y ago
    > that try and bring a hospital to its knees for the grand goal of making america look stupid for the nationalistic few who might actually care about that sort of thing That the public believes this is our biggest problem from an international policy perspective... (as far as this topic, that is) These governments are turning a blind eye, if not quietly supporting such because of the sheer economic and social damage. I know a local hospital group paid 22mil in ransom on top of a lot of days where stuff barely got done. Iirc United Health said a recent attack was probably 900 million in total costs to them? It adds up.
  - redeeman 2y ago
    > but realistically they have a bit more moral compass than the other state level actors yeah, some of those governments have even admitted to spike their own citizens with LSD to see what happens, and COUNTLESS other things. oh....
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      When the Soviets shoot down airliners it is becouse they are evil. When we do it is an accident. Just cheer the parade...
JudasGoat 2y ago
Wired story. https://archive.ph/vmQE3 https://archive.ph/vmQE3
rendall 2y ago
>> JDdoc: Once you knew you had access, did you make a point of saying “I’m IN!” out loud, even if no one was in the room with you? > dotslashpunk: lol, no I only say that during either sex or when I'm able to join a meeting successfully with my microphone and speakers actually working. Both are rare. Talented and funny. He's wearing his new found fame well.
beckylawhon 2y ago
[dead]
rldjbpin 2y ago
had it been any other country (as long as not opposing the western bloc), i wonder if he would be able to be so open and vocal about it. two wrongs don't make a right, usually.

172 points by consumer451 2y ago

[flagged]

It's 100% clear why his I initiative was buried. The guy is a reckless egomaniac jerk. He is very transparent that he would do illegal stuff on a whim, target civillians, escalate conflict with other nations without even consulting a superior, and then reveal his face to the whole world, spilling secrets left and right, for a minute of internet publicity. And do a reddit AMA. And put "I am single LOL" there, showing just how much he can be trusted with leading a government cyberwarfare task force What I read is that guy did a clever DDoS, which is mildly impressive, and decided to become a twitter celebrity/NK assassination victim. I am no hacker, but I expect real hackers to be laughing their asses off.

paganel 2y ago

Why isn’t he in prison? I mean, going by the West’s own laws, or the spirit of them, anyway. Unless he is part of said West’s Armed Forces, in which case this would get really close to a casus belli.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
Because the "rules based order" means a diferent set of rules for different situations. If it's something "we like", then it's ok, if not, then prison. Same for geopolitics... in one case, we care about teritorial integrity, that minorities should not seced, and in others we help with the breakup of countries... well.. or in some cases, we act is if nothing is happening at all, and noone wants to break away at all :)
- pacija 2y ago
  Ајсе Cрбине реци им како ствари стоје, ја покушавам ал сам увек флегд :)
derelicta 2y ago
No no no, ofc its morally justified to do such thing against impoverished nations! After all, if they are subjected to famine-inducing embargoes, they probably deserve it!
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Self imposed poverty due to the authoritarianism. They’re the bad guys, we care less if bad things happen to them.
  - atlantic 2y ago
    [flagged]
Keirmot 2y ago
Because one of the 3 basic principles of sovereignty (as is understood by western political philosophy, known as Westphalian sovereignty) is that there is no other authority inside a State’s borders except its own. This means no other country has jurisdiction in North Korea, besides, there’s also no incentive to help in case DPRK asks for help. France doesn’t investigante crimes that happen in Spain, Portugal doesn’t investigate crimes that haven in Canada, the USA doesn’t investigate crimes that happen in Germany, etc…
- sitkack 2y ago
  The FBI has offices around the world.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > western political philosophy, known as Westphalian sovereignty) is that there is no other authority inside a State’s borders except its own You’re citing centuries-old political philosophy, only remnants of which remain in our world [1]. The West that arose after WWII and through the Cold War is decidedly non-Westphalian. Concepts like human rights, non-proliferation and self determination are non-Westphalian. The Nuremberg trials were anti-Westphalian. The closest modern analogues to (and proponents of) Westphalian philosophy are Russia, China and North Korea. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system
  - OKRainbowKid 2y ago
    These "proponents" seem less strict about applying this philosophy to states other than their own.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      The Westphalian treaties gave France, Sweden and later Russia the explicit right to intercede to guarantee the Imperial constitution [1]. (Westphalia was concerned with the Holy Roman Empire.) Westphalian sovereignty as a historical concern is a myth [2]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantor_of_the_imperial_constitution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantor_of_the_imperial_co... [2] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-organization/article/abs/sovereignty-international-relations-and-the-westphalian-myth/33B6B7773432BE494F31518952ABE881 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-organi...
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Why isn’t he in prison? Not an enforcement priority for the same reason a lot of domestic abuse goes unprotected: the victim is uncoöperative. > going by the West’s own laws, or the spirit of them, anyway Pyongyang and prosecutors would have to show he attacked a “protected computer” under the CFAA [1]. Given the two routers he allegedly overwhelmed were internet connected, that shouldn’t technically be hard under Trotter and Kane. But it would be a novel expansion of interstate commerce to encompass a country with whom Americans cannot legally trade, i.e. do commerce. Put another way, North Korea’s status as a sanctioned country might put this into a legal grey area—it might not be criminally punishable. To settle that question would take a lot of prosecutorial resources. It’s not clear those are well spent on a case where the witness won’t coöperate. [1] https://www.coreyvarma.com/2015/01/what-is-the-computer-fraud-and-abuse-act-cfaa/#protected_computer https://www.coreyvarma.com/2015/01/what-is-the-computer-frau...
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Privateering is back, baby!
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Privateering is back Good point: a final hurdle inhibiting criminality is his lack of profits. No disgorgeable gains. That means you’re only left with damages, which again, requires the victim’s coöperation to assess.
  - Sabinus 2y ago
    It's already back, Russian, Chinese and North Korean hacking groups receive state funding and cover.
- teekert 2y ago
  I can imagine he did piss of some agencies? I mean other states could have mapped NK's whole infra, made a plan to take down NK's internet when "needed" (i.e. in case of some event)... Then some dude triggers it just for fun... Some things are too big to just mess around with, I would feel extremely vulnerable having pulled such a stunt.
jauer 2y ago
"the West" has to keep some degree of not officially caring to avoid being backed into a policy corner and has no incentive to take law enforcement action when threat actors in those other countries operate with impunity. We're already well into causus belli territory with NK, but nobody wants to go there: https://x.com/tarah/status/1798036415932187127 https://x.com/tarah/status/1798036415932187127
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  That link doesn't really explain what exactly it's talking about, it's a single reply with the original post invisible and all replies invisible. It speaks of a cyberattack without mentioning which one.
  - jauer 2y ago
    It works for me? That's normal behavior if you aren't signed into Twitter :( Summary of thread: Society doesn't handle 2nd order consequences well. NK cryptolocker attack on healthcare-involved systems in British hospitals disrupted treatment to the extent that hundreds of people died who probably wouldn't have. Expanding on that: Organized crime groups located in and sometimes tasked by RU SVR & GRU (not to mention NK state groups) have caused sufficient disruption to US healthcare systems to have indirectly caused more US Citizen deaths than the Sept 11 attacks. Right now cyber that does not directly cause destruction such as making buildings blow up or poisoning water supply is treated as just an annoying white collar crime. I don't think anyone wants the US Government to be in a position where their options are to admit powerlessness or get proportional against nuclear armed states. Somewhat related: https://blogs.icrc.org/law-and-policy/2023/10/04/8-rules-civilian-hackers-war-4-obligations-states-restrain-them/ https://blogs.icrc.org/law-and-policy/2023/10/04/8-rules-civ...
Rebelgecko 2y ago
Has NK asked to extradite him? Maybe a swap for the sony hackers?
DocTomoe 2y ago
Don't worry, the North Koreans, if sufficiently pissed, will take care of him.
csomar 2y ago
> Why isn’t he in prison? He very much could, if politics changed. The US hates NK not because they are authoritarian but because they are not aligned. If they were to be aligned, and this guy didn't act on proper authorization, he could find himself in hot waters in the USA. Plus he might have broken a bunch of "international" rules which could see him in trouble if he was to travel to some countries. It is really reckless; but then there is a good chance he was acting behind some agency.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > there is a good chance he was acting behind some agency Almost certainly not. The vector would have been saved. And he wouldn’t have maintained this public profile ex post facto. Consider, for example, taking it down during today’s state visit? (After you’ve quadruple checked that the Russians have independent connectivity.)
EasyMark 2y ago
It would take someone that wanted to prosecute him. If his story is real he deserves a medal and possibly a job at the NSA/CIA instead of a court date.

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

cryptica 2y ago

The hacker doesn't understand what they're getting themselves into, especially bragging about it. The hard part about going up against an entire nation/state is that it's relentless. The state never gets tired and never runs out of money, they could setup a team of people to 'work' on that individual and also potentially his present and future family members for a very long time. They can keep replenishing their teams with more people. The state always has a few people to spare for high-exposure targets. The leaders of that state might even forget about the existence of the individual but the operation will keep going until it's canceled... But since they forgot about the operation in the first place, it will keep going until there is some kind of broader administrative restructuring, cost-cutting or something... Which could be a long time away. Few things are more terrifying than totalitarian state bureaucracy.

anonzzzies 2y ago
Yep, it seems way too many people know who he is irl. I would be not sleep well for the coming decade at least.
- cryptica 2y ago
  Yeah and North Korea is known for punishing family members. It's just foolish to brag like that. Probably worse than the hack itself.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  Eh, he’s probably safer than if he’d hacked a cartel. North Korea isn’t known for its tradecraft in the United States.
  - heywoods 2y ago
    While it's true that North Korea's tradecraft within the U.S. might not be as sophisticated as some fear, the situation isn't so straightforward. Given the significant public exposure of this case and the individual's prior connections within the U.S. government, NK would need to carefully weigh their options. I would wager that if NK would attempt to harm this hacker it would be through using third parties like cartels or local gangs. This could offer NK plausible deniability and physical access to the target, but it also complicates their operational control and increases the risk of exposure. The calculus for NK would include considerations such as: - The individual's public and former government status, which might provoke a stronger U.S. response if harmed. NK would have to vet the hackers assertions that he still has meaningful and significant contacts within the USG. - The cost and complexity of outsourcing such an operation discretely. - The types of U.S. responses that might follow, from diplomatic measures to cyber counterattacks. While an attack via third parties is plausible, and given these factors which I am sure there are others I haven't considered, it would require NK to balance the benefits against the potential repercussions and the likelihood of successful attribution. But I am very confident that if they do follow through it will be using a cartel or local gang as proxy for the reasons I mentioned. P4x's public disclosures and technical skills make him a unique target, but as he himself noted, the operational capabilities of North Korea within the U.S. are limited. It's a nuanced threat landscape where indirect methods might be considered but are not guaranteed to succeed without significant risks.

verisimi 2y ago

Nothing about this ama/article suggests that NK is anything but a Potemkin country - a false baddie for others to hide behind. The NK idea is useful to agencies, in certain circumstances.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Potemkin country Maybe they’re another Russia, their tanks and artillery all crumpets. But maybe not. They have a lot of them on paper [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Korean_People%27s_Army_Ground_Force https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Kor...
- lye 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
bagels 2y ago
They have missiles and nuclear weapons.

golergka 2y ago

He contradicts himself left and right. In one comment, he writes that they will never come after him, in another that he's seriously concerned. He writes that he has a lot of serious connections in the DoD up to the highest level, and then explains that he has a way to stop any attack from NK, but nobody will even listen to him.

throwaway8877 2y ago
The last two points are not contradictory.
rl3 2y ago
If only those stupid bureaucrats who have probably maintained persistence inside NK networks for the past two or three decades would just listen.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

londons_explore 2y ago

Such an attack is, IMO, morally dubious. North Korea is a poor country with millions of starving citizens, and rather than sending food aid, you broke down their only comms to the rest of the world?

throwaway8877 2y ago
They are heavily sanctioned criminal country that is openly aiding a genocidal regime. If anything is then your comment is morally dubious.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
gorbachev 2y ago
Yes and no. Only the elite in that country has access to the Internet. The starving citizens do not have access to the Internet, and even if they do/did, they're so heavily monitored the minute they even glanced at something controversial they'd be shipped to a concentration camp.
- csomar 2y ago
  > Only the elite in that country has access to the Internet. Sure, but then the overall population might be depending on it indirectly.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    How much did you indirectly depend on Golf Digest when President Trump was reading it in office?
- herbst 2y ago
  It depends what the 'hacker' took down. They have their own intranet that is available for more or less all citizens since 2022

throwaway8877 2y ago

So if it was down, how did it affect global security metrics?

iJohnDoe 2y ago
This is a good point that no one has really pointed out based on my skimming, except for the OP saying they could stop all NK based attacks, which I’m guessing is based on blocking the 2 country routers. However, a minimal amount of cyber attacks probably actually originate from NK directly. It’s known the NK hackers are trained in China and attacks probably flow through compromised VPS accounts, VPNs, open proxies, and open SOCKS-5 located around the world. The NK hackers could be sitting in NK using the systems I referenced above to do their attacks and were not able to because they couldn’t connect to the internet. Maybe so, but they are most likely usually sitting in China and other locations.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

aorloff 2y ago

Is anyone mining bitcoin in DPRK ?

EasyMark 2y ago
I highly doubt that, it’s quite a lot for the system to power the 1% elites, the palace, and the ballistic missile factories.
- aorloff 2y ago
  Which is why it would be so interesting
iJohnDoe 2y ago
Even if they really wanted to there isn’t enough electricity in NK. Lots of articles written about the minimal amount of emitting lights seen at night.

WesternWind 2y ago

I'm unsure on the ethics of this. Yes only the elite have the internet, but also the internet is likely used internally for communication, which is important for resource distribution. I don't give two shits about the elite in NK, but the starving folks living there have my deepest sympathy. I'm lucky to have a lot of advantages, and I can't help but see many of them as an accident of birth.

joecool1029 2y ago
> I'm unsure on the ethics of this. I think I can make it simple. Would love to hear of any cases refuting this. If the country is on the US State Department's 'Sponsored' program list (currently DPRK, Iran, Sudan, and Cuba) it doesn't count. Florida terrorism ok, you get a pass and called a hero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles Comparing to other more recent Florida originated attack on against a poor country, the assassination of Haiti's president. Haiti is not on that country approval list, go directly to jail: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-florida-men-arrested-plot-kill-haitian-president-grand-jury-returns-indictment-against https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/four-florida-men-arrested-plo...
KoolKat23 2y ago
So basically the elites are using the internet to control (feeding) the starving folk. No internet means less control. Brings them closer to the starving folks level, more chance of actually being a "people's republic" then. There's not much government worth salvaging in that country, basically an army. The only loss would be them improving their security now. Other world governments may have left that vulnerability untouched purely in case they need to use it at a later stage.
codezero 2y ago
The only person responsible for the starving people in NK is their dictator that keeps them in those conditions.

vasco 2y ago

These supposed messages between him and the state department lead me to believe it's either all or mostly exagerations or lies: https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge of some regionalism, but doesn't it seem very odd that a technical person would use "in the open source", to refer not to code, but to a PR article on some news website?

shzhdbi09gv8ioi 2y ago
See OSINT. It's well established terminology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_intelligence
- vasco 2y ago
  Thanks, never heard this in just technical circles but haven't been close to any security work.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  It's a weird term. My impression is that it mostly means "randos LARPing spies", though there's a commercial angle too, it being to intelligence what PMCs are to the military. May or may not be called after "Open Source Publishing, Incorporated", featured here: [0]. -- [0] - https://irp.fas.org/congress/2005_hr/062105jardines.pdf https://irp.fas.org/congress/2005_hr/062105jardines.pdf
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    it is not a weird term, and is absolutely a thing. a big deal in 2024, really. back in the day it was just "reading the newspapers and talking to the local cab drivers", but on 2024 you're scanning forums and social media, on top of news sites. go to a military-related subreddit and start asking questions about stuff, and you'll eventually get an expert to chime in. Make wrong & stupid claims and then have them slap you down and spill some details -- that's how they got dudes to release classified tank info in Warthunder. dudes in Palestine and in Ukraine are getting killed because they post selfies and tweets that have GPS coordinates in the metadata. Not hidden behind any top secret firewall, easy to find if you're checking VK or Instagram, but very real implications for dropping bombs. OSINT is also absolutely a thing in Cyber, where you can get a lot of details about a target by reading their press releases -- "Corp X signs big new deal with Oracle" -- which can give you a new attack surface. Phishing, on a long, broad timeline, has a very high success rate, so go onto Linkedin and start connecting to people. Figure out their tech stack, create a Sales Guy account, and start reaching out to Architects and Managers, and then map out the teams that might have elevated access...

sim7c00 2y ago

i hope no poor IT engineer in NK and his family for 10 generations isnt going to be sent to workcamps because of this joke.

codezero 2y ago
The only person to blame for that behavior is the chaotic and capricious dictator taking these actions against the population he is oppressing.
- sim7c00 2y ago
  just like car manufacturers are the only people responsible for accidents on the road?
  - codezero 2y ago
    No. Not at all.

1234554321a 2y ago

It’s legal to hack North Korean infrastructure? Might be a good way to test out your hacking skills.

kjkjadksj 2y ago
Sounds like a terrible way. One screw up, and then you have one of the worst nations on earth in every metric with an axe to grind against you. No thanks. Meetups in Vegas hotels seem a lot safer and more fun to practice hacking skills.

INTPenis 2y ago

The thing I took away from this is that Putin is visiting a country with two routers running their whole internet, and these are his partners.

instagraham 2y ago

How much exposure of the regular internet do North Korean hackers have? What are the odds of turning them?

Sabinus 2y ago
None. This was a middle finger to the NK State apparatus and that's about all.
- sureglymop 2y ago
  I think this was a pretty stupid joke. Especially if the OP is an individual. Making a nation state your adversary as merely a sole individual is something you never ever want to even risk. Any rational human being (not just hacker) would know or recognize that. Very often it is ego that directly leads to doing irrational actions like this.
  - rpdillon 2y ago
    North Korea was already targeting him. The hack was in retaliation.
- codezero 2y ago
  Not true, there are/were North Korean hackers actively using platforms like Hackerone and other lesser known SaaS that haven't implemented KYC for training.

Sabinus 2y ago

>Like many other US hackers and security researchers, Caceres had been personally targeted by North Korean spies who aimed to steal his intrusion tools. He had detailed that targeting to the FBI but received no real government support. So he decided to take matters into his own hands and to send a message to the regime of Kim Jong Un: Messing with American hackers would have consequences. “It felt like the right thing to do here,” Caceres told WIRED at the time. “If they don’t see we have teeth, it’s just going to keep coming.” Indescribably based.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
akira2501 2y ago
Hardly. He's creating tools that interest state actors with no real means of defending himself or the tools. If he's that concerned he could just destroy the tools, but he wants to have his cake and eat it too. Then, in response to what should have been an obvious outcome to his actions, he commits what should be described as a "crime against humanity" against the entire communications infrastructure of a foreign country with nuclear weapons. There is nothing based here. This is stupid with a tinge of greed and ego mixed in.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- valianteffort 2y ago
  Glad someone is saying this. Some obnoxious moron putting countless lives in danger to virtue signal has gotta be a new low on the internet retard scale.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Whose lives did he put in danger? Also, if the entirety of the US goverment will not protect you from foreign state-sanctioned personal attacks, what should one do? Just sit there and take it, even if one could stop it? > The State Department has a thing called "Rewards for Justice" and they talk extensively about the NK problem and how we're being hacked all the time. They pay millions for information. I told them "I don't want any of your money, I want you to know who I am [insert wired article here] and that I can listerally make any attack coming from the country North Korea stop in its tracks within minutes. Let me grab their response: > https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA https://imgur.com/a/s-lX6inGA > Just be ready to be fucking infuriated. They have a bunch of shit about how we need to take on the NK cyber threat. I literally give them a SOLUTION and they say it's not within their purview, go to other intelligence agencies. I told them I FUCKING DID. No response since. https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1divlp3/im_the_hacker_that_brought_down_north_koreas/l974i3c/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1divlp3/im_the_hacker...

_xivi 2y ago

Related: North Korea hacked him, so he took down its internet - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30180566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30180566 - Feb 2022 (238 comments)

operator2140 2y ago

Talk about delusions of grandeur. He knocked a few public facing HTTP hosts offline, amazing! I can “a bring down North Korea’s internet” aka a few public hosts for a week too if I rent Lizard Squads stresser for $400 a week. What’s supposed to be impressive about that?

resolutebat 2y ago
No, he knocked out the two routers serving the entire country. NK sites were inaccessible to the outside world, and outside sites were inaccessible to NK.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  But very very few North Koreans even have access to the internet. Regular people just have access to a local intranet with censored information. That exercise that Russia did a few years ago to see if they could function cut off from the internet? For north Korea that's the regular self-imposed status quo. I don't think it will have had much impact on daily life there.
  - 4fterd4rk 2y ago
    But it would have had a big impact on the lives of the elites in the country, which are the people you want to hurt to put pressure on the regime.

voidUpdate 2y ago

I'm a little confused by the news stories about this. Did he take down their country-wide network, or just the few lines in and out of the country? It seems like he just hit a few NK websites and they everything stopped responding to him. Its like cutting the uk-europe power links and saying you took down all of the UK's power infrastructure

resolutebat 2y ago
Only the lines in/out. NK has their own intranet which is completely separate from the global internet, which was presumably entirely unaffected by this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_(network)
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  So not really much effect on the system then, overall
- doublerabbit 2y ago
  > North Koreans often find it more convenient to access sites by their IP address rather than by domain name using Latin characters Don't blame them. Enom fee's are extortionate. And when DNS breaks it still works.

efilife 2y ago

I'm shocked that he shows his face and identifies himself willingly

mianosm 2y ago
Big "lifelock" vibes...and if I understand it correctly, that lifelock character has had his identity successfully stolen and impacted multiple times. Sometimes the person who says "I'm really smart, like mensa level", does some really ignorant and stupid things.
- washadjeffmad 2y ago
  Sometimes you're also just hoping to find someone or something out there that interests you.
jrexilius 2y ago
I worked with him briefly on another project and he was pretty comfy and open about the whole thing. In fact I think I remember him mentioning doing a talk at a conference about it. He's a genuinely nice guy and fairly laid back about things. NK regime maybe is annoyed with him, but there is an almost zero probability of them being able to do anything other than digital harrassment to him.
- influx 2y ago
  Considering they have performed assassinations outside of their soil, I would be slightly concerned.
  - quickthrowman 2y ago
    They assassinated a potential rival for the throne. The situations are not even remotely similar. Killing a US citizen on US soil would not go down well.
    - influx 2y ago

jrexilius 2y ago

There are a couple good points in the linked Wired article, such as the fact that the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, and North Korea are already escalating attacks on civillian and commercial targets and our restraint isn't being matched. I fully understand why the US and partner governments won't be able to respond in kind, but there is certainly a lot more that could be done in that domain.

kjkjadksj 2y ago
There are people that are in offensive cyber security in the US government, but realistically they have a bit more moral compass than the other state level actors that try and bring a hospital to its knees for the grand goal of making america look stupid for the nationalistic few who might actually care about that sort of thing. There's a saying we have here about never wrestling a pig in the mud: you will both be dirty but the pig will like it.
- whaleofatw2022 2y ago
  > that try and bring a hospital to its knees for the grand goal of making america look stupid for the nationalistic few who might actually care about that sort of thing That the public believes this is our biggest problem from an international policy perspective... (as far as this topic, that is) These governments are turning a blind eye, if not quietly supporting such because of the sheer economic and social damage. I know a local hospital group paid 22mil in ransom on top of a lot of days where stuff barely got done. Iirc United Health said a recent attack was probably 900 million in total costs to them? It adds up.
- redeeman 2y ago
  > but realistically they have a bit more moral compass than the other state level actors yeah, some of those governments have even admitted to spike their own citizens with LSD to see what happens, and COUNTLESS other things. oh....
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    When the Soviets shoot down airliners it is becouse they are evil. When we do it is an accident. Just cheer the parade...

JudasGoat 2y ago

Wired story. https://archive.ph/vmQE3 https://archive.ph/vmQE3

rendall 2y ago

>> JDdoc: Once you knew you had access, did you make a point of saying “I’m IN!” out loud, even if no one was in the room with you? > dotslashpunk: lol, no I only say that during either sex or when I'm able to join a meeting successfully with my microphone and speakers actually working. Both are rare. Talented and funny. He's wearing his new found fame well.

beckylawhon 2y ago

[dead]

rldjbpin 2y ago

had it been any other country (as long as not opposing the western bloc), i wonder if he would be able to be so open and vocal about it. two wrongs don't make a right, usually.