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Donating clothes is contributing to Africa's 'mitumba' problem
- Janewillie 2y ago[dead]
- throwup238 2y agohttps://archive.ph/ten3W https://archive.ph/ten3W
- ketanmaheshwari 2y agoIf you are curious, like me, as to what 'mitumba' means, it is simply a local word for used clothing. I thought it had some deeper cultural meaning.
- stevage 2y agoDonating used clothing contributes to the used clothing problem. Story at 10.
- pas 2y agoThere's not even a story. As income levels rise people will start buying/using less and less used clothes out of necessity.
- stevage 2y agoWell that's the story. Already the value of secondhand clothes in Africa has gone way down as people have access to the internet and can see they are not the latest fashion. Clothes that won't be worn should be recycled in the country of origin, not sent to Africa to be dumped in landfill.
- pas 2y agoHow are the donated clothes getting there if there's no real demand? Are there clueless importers and NGOs with money to burn? :o
- chimpanzee 2y ago> If used clothing is the problem, why not prohibit it altogether? The answer is that countries tried. In 2016, a group of East African countries joined forces to ban imports of secondhand clothing. In retaliation, the Trump administration threatened to remove the countries from the program that is at the core of U.S.-Africa trade policy if they followed through. No surprise that a lobby group representing used clothing sorters backed the move. The only country that stood firm was Rwanda and, to this day, its duty-free apparel benefits under AGOA remain suspended.
- pas 2y agothere's no point in banning it. clothing is extremely well suited for a market-based solution. if there are problems with waste and recycling then that's an argument for taxing it and using that revenue to fund waste management.
- chimpanzee 2y agoThe trash is being foisted upon them in exchange for other economic considerations. The demand is artificial. Did you read the article?
- pas 2y agoNo I haven't read it as I don't have a WaPo subscription anymore. So someone is sending free textile shipments to Africa? How is the demand "artificial", is someone masquerading as buyers? So is it about environmental issues, is it about protectionism, both?
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- saulpw 2y agoAs always, the problem isn't consumer action but government policy: > If used clothing is the problem, why not prohibit it altogether? The answer is that countries tried. In 2016, a group of East African countries joined forces to ban imports of secondhand clothing. In retaliation, the Trump administration threatened to remove the countries from the program that is at the core of U.S.-Africa trade policy if they followed through. No surprise that a lobby group representing used clothing sorters backed the move. The only country that stood firm was Rwanda and, to this day, its duty-free apparel benefits under AGOA remain suspended.
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- lo_zamoyski 2y agoInteresting, isn't it? You MUST take in used clothing. Africa is still in the grips of foreign agents that smother its economies and make a profit while exploiting the riches of the continent. Neocolonialism is not the colonialism of the 19th century. Backing off would go a long way toward helping these countries to become prosperous.
- delfinom 2y agoPretty much. Capitalism demands there to always be a lower class to exploit and Africa is getting the short end of the stick, both from western countries and even China whose itching to support their state-ran capitalism as much as they can.
- samatman 2y agoWell, yeah, free trade agreements are generally reciprocal. Here's the original article for the curious: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/30/us-and-rwanda-trade-dispute-over-second-hand-clothes.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/30/us-and-rwanda-trade-dispute-... Some East African countries wanted to impose tariffs on US exports, and were told that would mean losing duty-free trade with the US. Rwanda decided it was worth it to protect local industry. Stripped of all the paternalism and Trumpenfury, that's the whole story.
- ghaff 2y agoI'm not sure what the proposed answer is. Not that anyone will care but not donating used (non-soiled etc.) textile is actually a violation of the law in a state like MA as I understand it.
- ketanmaheshwari 2y agoCould you elaborate. What law is broken if one do not donate used clothing in MA?
- ghaff 2y agohttps://www.mass.gov/guides/clothing-and-textile-recovery https://www.mass.gov/guides/clothing-and-textile-recovery
- elil17 2y agohttps://www.mass.gov/guides/clothing-and-textile-recovery#:~:text=In%20November%202022%2C%20Massachusetts%20banned,donated%20to%20a%20textile%20recycler https://www.mass.gov/guides/clothing-and-textile-recovery#:~.... You don’t have to donate, you can also recycle.
- ghaff 2y agoFor individuals though, it pretty much means you're supposed to take them down the street to a "donation" dumpster rather than toss them in the trash. Almost certainly, no one is going to come to your house and arrest you/fine you because they found an old t-shirt in your trash but they maybe could.
- samatman 2y ago> Textiles means clothing, footwear, bedding, towels, curtains, fabric, and similar products, except for textiles that are contaminated with mold, bodily fluids, insects, oil, or hazardous substances. Apparently it's also legal to jizz on your used clothing and then toss them in the garbage. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't make the rules!
- andrewfromx 2y agoa possible solution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40722978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40722978
- Scoundreller 2y agomy bike coop will take any non-biohazard unusable clothing for use as shop rags thankfully my mom is around for me to drop off some stuff and ask her to "stitch up this rip" and she'll not only do that, but re-inforce the other side to prevent the inevitable burning the cotton/wool stuff as fuel is probably fine, but less and less of that comes off the manufacturing line all in all, plastics waste from clothing isn't much kg/year/person compared to everything else maybe a post-ozempic world will reduce some clothing waste (while initially increasing it)
- lm411 2y agoIn Southeast Asia there are many markets selling used clothing like this. It provides a good business for the vendor and a great option for many locals to get much nicer clothes than they could otherwise obtain. Googling, it appears similar in Africa. I'm not sure it's quite as evil as the author implies, though, I don't doubt dealing with the junk is a problem and there should be some recycling infrastructure setup to deal with the junk clothing.
- catlikesshrimp 2y agoWant to help a poor country? Buy their products at fair rates. They will handle their gardments very well. Buying clothes made by borderline-slaves and dumping them used on another country is evil. It is kind of green washing pooverty
- lm411 2y agoYou don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. Sorry. Regards, Someone who knows many people in the garment industry.
- pythonic_hell 2y agoI also know quite a few people who work in that industry in developing countries and I don’t think you know what your talking about.
- henvic 2y agoIn my opinion this isn't really the problem. While one sector might be slightly affected, this is something many more benefit from. For the sake of argument, imagine that Santa was real and gave kids free toys, magically produced, during Christmas time, destroying this industry. Sure thing, that'd be a pity and would generate some unemployment. However, overall we'd be better off: people would be freed from the costs of buying toys for kids and would have their resources available for other industries and endeavors... Don't get me wrong: if this happened overnight, it'd be catastrophic for many people, but still, on the long run, we'd be better off. A real problem, though, is that we're still wearing a lot of low quality clothing. We, as a society, would really benefit from a shift to buying higher-quality clothing that would stay good and last for longer.
- jerlam 2y agoAnother benefit of higher-quality clothing is that it can be easily resold if you get tired of it or grow out of it, instead of dropping it in the dumpster or donation bin. Brands like Patagonia, stores like REI, and consignment stores will give you credit or money for your used stuff if it's from a known brand. But it's still more work than most people want to do, and it's still going to cost more than buying the cheapest possible item.
- lo_zamoyski 2y agoThis is a cultural problem. Local consignment and thrift shops are great (though avoid giving to Goodwill; prefer either consignment shops that pay you or charities like St. Vincent de Paul). I even know people who are middle/upper middle class who like to visit consignment stores on occasion to see if there's something nice for sale. Those who have been know you can often find very nice and interesting things for a very good price. I emphasize "local" as this does not have the negative economic impact of mitumba, and there is market feedback based on actual need, not coercive practices like those involving mitumba. Unless there's a disaster or crisis, it is better to act locally instead of feeding into the glamorous, if cliche, resume-padding abstraction of "helping Africa".
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- Havoc 2y agoWould be much less problematic if it was all cotton. > making an official state visit to the United States, marking the first time in nearly 16 years for an African leader to do so That’s definitely not true
- metaphor 2y ago> That’s definitely not true President John Kufuor of Ghana circa Sep 2008[1]. Check! Your move... [1] https://history.state.gov/departmenthistory/visits/2008 https://history.state.gov/departmenthistory/visits/2008
- nickff 2y agoNot OP, but there was an official state visit by Egypt in 2019 and Kenya in 2018: https://history.state.gov/departmenthistory/visits/2019 https://history.state.gov/departmenthistory/visits/2019 https://history.state.gov/departmenthistory/visits/2018 https://history.state.gov/departmenthistory/visits/2018
- metaphor 2y agoTo be clear, Working Visit != State Visit.
- nickff 2y agoIt is my understanding that the keyword is "official", which indicates a state visit. The two I mentioned were official, working visits.
- BoiledCabbage 2y agoUh no - "state visit" indicates a state visit.
- hunter-gatherer 2y agoCotton, linen, or wool. It wouod be much less of a problem if we all wouldn't buy so much clothing. There is so much of it...
- haunter 2y ago> If you’ve donated clothing to a local charity or tossed your stained shirts in a drop-off bin, chances are your discarded items will be dumped in Africa or more like it ends up in Eastern Europe where it runs some rounds first in 2nd hand shops. “german 2nd hand cloths”, “english quality used cloths” and shops like these are extremely common in Slovakia, Hungary, Romania etc. all over the countries
- Spunkie 2y agoYa as far as I've seen from traveling they end up in every "2nd/3rd world" countries. Not sure if Africa is really any more likely than other places for donated clothes to end up. I'm sure the flood of clothes could be seen as an issue to some but it sure does help keep the cost of living down. I cloth my kid for pennies on the dollar thanks to pacas here in central america.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago2nd word means allied with the soviets, so not really a term you can use today. 3rd world meaning free for the talking... i mean, unaligned and developing (into one or another alignment) thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
- Spunkie 2y agoTrying to freeze a term that is in everyday parlance to an entity that hasn't existed in decades is a silly silly thing indeed. I think your Ted talk should retire to YouTube tidbit channels that go over the unexpected origins of everyday sayings. Unless your actual goal is to sow misunderstanding and distract from actual discussion.
- konfusinomicon 2y agothey should break down the clothes back into threads and make new stuff
- Almondsetat 2y agoIsn't the problem with all these donated clothes that the textile industry in Africa keeps getting undercut by this massive influx of basically free and decent quality garments? It's the "give a man a fish, teach a man to fish" situation
- nwatson 2y agoThere are documentaries showing the huge industry in Africa of cutting worn clothes at the seams, choosing the best parts of the resulting panels, trimming them down, and reformulating a new good-looking garment of a smaller size. Other than manufacturing raw textiles, I'm not sure much is cut out of the supply chain here.
- 1oooqooq 2y agohow is that a feasible industry? southern African countries produce cotton but don't have a textile industry even for their army uniforms. it's the usual colonial triangle of extraction and forced consumption. they just moved the frame. before it was enslaved to America, ag produce to the empire, goods to Africa. now it's ag produce to the empire, goods to the periphery of the empire, and garbage to Africa and south America. (vast majority of those clothes are literal garbage. donation is a very small percentage. same with selling refurbished electronics which won't even receive updates and are already out of support/vulnerable)
- catlikesshrimp 2y agoIts more like: monopolize fishing with economy of scale. Then give the locals just enough of the worse fish so they don't starve. Now they owe you. You won! The local production of anything cannot compete agaisnt a rich country's surplus. It is a well known problem of poor countries that such "aid" kills agriculture, textiles, milk production.
- pas 2y agoThe difference is that food goods are fungible. A ton of wheat is just as good from the US as the local one basically. With clothes the situation is very much the opposite, brands compete globally, but rare unique local sometimes gets a premium.
- catlikesshrimp 2y agoThe country where I live receives this kind of "aid" All the commoners are happy with "American Brands" sold so cheap in local currency It is impossible to buy a locally made shirt, nor pants, nor anything. Except "traditional" / indigenous clothes for tourist, but that doesnt count. Obviously, very few people would, like me, buy locally made new clothes because they would be more expensive and "Not American". And I understand and accept why that happens as described in the article. Do you want to help a poor country? Buy their products at fair price. Don't dump powder milk surplus because the kids.