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Gavin Newsom wants to take smartphones out of schools
- waynecochran 2y agoOh no! How would the kids survive such a draconian policy!?
- 39896880 2y agoIt’s not the kids it’s the parents. They expect to be in constant contact with their kids. Note to the office won’t do.
- sverhagen 2y agoWell... it's some parents... and then from there it's peer pressure on the other kids, who then go beg their parents for one too.
- Teever 2y agoEdit: replied to wrong person.
- School-Cotton 2y agoLooks like you responded to the wrong person
- trealira 2y agoDid you mean to reply to this comment? "As a parent, yep, in event of a school shooting. It's an insurance policy to hear your child's last words. Address the root cause, because everything else is just a band-aid." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40718741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40718741
- leetharris 2y agoI think they will get used to it quickly. This is how it used to be and parents had far less anxiety. I think at first it will be a very jarring change, but once they are through the worst part society will adopt quickly.
- kelseyfrog 2y agoAs a parent, yep, in event of a school shooting. It's an insurance policy to hear your child's last words. Address the root cause, because everything else is just a band-aid.
- RebeccaTheDev 2y agoSame. This is the reason my daughter has one. Things are getting extremely hot out there and no one seems willing to do anything about it.
- amelius 2y agoMaybe buy them a Nokia 1100 instead?
- RebeccaTheDev 2y agoI give her my old iPhone that's already paid off when I upgrade (and that I can put parental controls on.)
- DiggyJohnson 2y agoWhat do you mean by things getting "hot" out there? Are you monitoring any signals or predictors of school shootings at your daughter's school? Sorry, genuinely trying to understand your perspective here.
- jvanderbot 2y agoOh great, this made me switch sides on this whole argument. Horrifying black swan events are very motivating.
- blackhawkC17 2y agoIn the cause of a school shooting (that’s statistically almost not bound to happen), phoning your child is a liability likely to get more people killed than an asset.
- 2y ago
- tivert 2y ago> It’s not the kids it’s the parents. The cause isn't some mutually exclusive binary like that. It can be both at the same time and the proportion can vary between families.
- foolfoolz 2y agoi feel like parenting keeps regressing. at my kids school many parents walk their kids in. i get that for kindergarten, but 3rd grade? you live 3 blocks away. your kid could walk. and biking is out of the question, too dangerous. only 2 kids bike to school. and they wouldn’t let their kid walk home (probably a quarter mile) without a gps device. air tag is not enough because it’s not realtime and has no communication. this isn’t an exaggeration. so many of my parent friends think this way. “they can’t bike to school because what if they fall and need help? they need a phone” why as humans do we create more barriers and goalposts?
- AlgorithmicTime 2y ago[dead]
- Workaccount2 2y agoHumans evolved to constantly identify threats and ward them off. A side-effect of this is that as real threats dwindle and disappear, brains will naturally fill the gap with progressively more paranoid and unfounded fears.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nytesky 2y agoIt’s because drivers are all on their phones and unless your 3rd grader is 5 ft tall, they will be easily unseen and plowed over.
- DiggyJohnson 2y agoYou don't actually know that, and it depends drastically on the car and pedestrian infrastructure around the school, as well as the child himself.
- sircastor 2y agoIt’s anecdotal, sure, but I don’t think you’re appreciating how bad this problem is.
- totaldude87 2y agoA smart watch can easily solve the contact problems
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- EasyMark 2y agoIt’s both. Some kids need it, some parents need it, sometimes there’s a codependency. It’s not always 0 or 1.
- Mister_Snuggles 2y agoAlberta just announced that this is happening starting in the fall: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-classroom-cell-phones-1.7237567 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-classroom-cel...
- swader999 2y agoIt's already been a rule in most schools anyway. This just formalizes it.
- criddell 2y agoMy kids’ high school required kids to have a phone. They strongly encouraged the kids use the calendar to track assignments, they used the camera for capturing homework instructions from a white board, they sometimes made movies for class assignments, and they had some kind of Twitter-like app for the teachers to broadcast to the kids and the kids to contact teachers (this didn’t seem to be used often). They also used the browser a lot for looking stuff up. When I went to the fall parent-teacher orientation night and they explained all this, it didn’t sound like phone use was a huge problem, but maybe they just didn’t want to talk about the problems. I did like that they had structure around phone use that included appropriate and inappropriate uses of the phone. I totally get banning phones with young kids, but high schoolers should be treated more like adults as they progress through the grades. Some of the kids were entering the workforce or joining the military after their senior year. They should be ready for that.
- arp242 2y ago> I totally get banning phones with young kids, but high schoolers should be treated more like adults as they progress through the grades. Some of the kids were entering the workforce or joining the military after their senior year. They should be ready for that. High school is from the age of 13 to 18; big difference between those two.
- criddell 2y ago
- JohnMakin 2y agoSure, rather than go after the actual source of the problem (large social media companies that knowingly enact policies that harm children), that would ruffle too many donor feathers, so we make a gesture at correcting the problem that will ultimately do very little to protect children. Wonderful. Sorry for my cynicism but this is so beyond the pale. If he'd given literally any other reason I would buy it, I do not believe smart phones have a place on campus during school hours for most use cases.
- sigmonsays 2y agohow do you address the source of the problem? Isn't removing cell phones during school use a step in the right direction?
- JohnMakin 2y agoHold social media companies like meta accountable for the harm they know they are inflicting on children? Why is that impossible?
- emblaegh 2y agoWhat do you suggest they persecute facebook for? Making their app too fun for school?
- JohnMakin 2y agoAre you unaware of this massive story? https://www.thewellnews.com/mental-health/whistleblower-says-meta-execs-knew-social-media-can-harm-kids/ https://www.thewellnews.com/mental-health/whistleblower-says... There are plenty of other examples, such as default features they can put into place to protect children from harassment that they simply do not do.
- emblaegh 2y agoSo what? Killing a scapegoat does not a problem solve. You shut down facebook and then what happens? Everyone shuts the phone and enjoy the sunset or would they all just move to the next addictive app? Marlboros are not harmful, tobacco is. If we managed to largely curb smoking, it was by restricting access to tobacco.
- jdross 2y agoThis is so obviously good. It's also such a clear political win that I'm shocked that Newsom of all people took this long to go after it
- frumper 2y agoHe's been going after it for years. He just wants more teeth in a new law.
- moolcool 2y ago> It's also such a clear political win Until helicopter parents start complaining
- sandworm101 2y agoOr until Facebook/google/apple starts complaining about reduced screen times and the resulting impact to share prices.
- godzillabrennus 2y agoGuess the kids need a dumb phone. Nokia will rise again.
- globular-toast 2y agoWhy do kids need a phone at all? They especially shouldn't need it at school.
- pelagicAustral 2y agoI think it's more an Americanism... I don't think parents elsewhere need to be so vigilant over their kids when they're at school... Of course, kids elsewhere are nowhere near the level of danger generated by a country that sells assault rifles like they're candy.
- bequanna 2y agoThe total number of children killed by gun violence in school in 2024 is... Zero. This is from a source that has a very liberal definition of "school shooting": https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-...
- orhmeh09 2y agoIncorrect. Update: 17-Year-Old Student Deceased After Shooting at Garfield High School - SPD Blotter, Thu, 06 Jun 2024 - https://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2024/06/06/detectives-are-investigating-shooting-at-garfield-high-school https://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2024/06/06/detectives-are-inv...
- nequo 2y agoI’d say they might need one in Europe where they are allowed to walk home from school alone, in case something happens. But in the US where school buses take kids almost door to door,[1] there’s no clear need for phones. Edit: [1] I am simplifying here and ignoring a lot of geographic variability.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- angelsbrood 2y agoSo bizarre and embarrassing the peanut gallery here views this as anything other than a backslide. We've been having this non-argument since I was in middle school: moratorium was a ridiculous non-sequitur then and it's a ridiculous non-sequitur now. If civic institutions can't find a constructive path to integrating socially ubiquitous prosthetic tech, it ought to be disqualifying. That's quite nakedly the task of governance.
- jrmg 2y agoCan you explain why you think this is seemingly obviously ridiculous? It’s not obvious to me.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- peteyPete 2y agoImagine having to teach a whole class, keep track of each kids engagement, where they're at, if they need more help, and on top of that, having eyes on the back walls of the classroom to see if kids have their phones hidden in their pencil case or something, watching youtube or cheating, or msging each other, or are wearing buds under their hair and are just jamming and not listening in class... Imagine each kid has a gaming console in their hand and are already addicted to all their devices and on top of trying to teach them a full curriculum, you also have to be their addiction counselor and police. At most, if kids phones were registered as "student" phones and registered to a school so that between certain hours, the phones allowed policies from the school to be applied to a phone while the phone is on the premises. Teachers could just disable them during class or allow for exceptions like if such and such kid was waiting for a critical call from a parent or something.. Classrooms could have beacons telling the phones they're in a classroom so if they go in the halls the phones could work... Or not.. Either way, there should be tech solutions to tech problems and teachers have enough to deal with, they shouldn't be further strained by having to police students always trying to find ways to sneak on to their devices. Soon teachers might be a thing of the past and kids will just interact with an AI teacher anyway... The AI will be responsible for keeping them engaged and make sure they understand the material. At that point the AI can just shock them into submission if they whip out their phones... Muahahhaa... jk jk.
- omh 2y agoThis debate seems to conflate two or three different issues. 1. Use of phones in classrooms 2. Having phones present in schools, but unused 3. The impact of social media on schoolchildren (1) is undeniably bad and should be banned everywhere. (2) raises some issues. I don't want (1) but I would like my child to have a phone for the journey to and from school. And a smartphone is much better at this than a dumb phone (group chats are really good!) (3) is a concern but it seems almost totally unrelated to the other issues. The children who are banned from having a phone at school will use the same social media when they're at home and schools will still have to deal with bullying. Our school current bans (1) and is consulting on more bans. But from parent discussions it feels like both the school and parents are mixing up these issues and just coming back with "phones are bad".
- peppertree 2y agoApple should jump ahead of the problem and allow schools to control screen time and focus modes.
- martin-adams 2y agoThe side effect may be that kids start asking for Android phones which would be the exact opposite of what Apple wants
- Workaccount2 2y agoThe last thing Apple is going to do is put a bad taste in the mouths of it's most obedient golden geese. Apple stock would probably halve if kids stopped socially shaming each other into buying iPhones.
- duxup 2y agoFirst thing I would do is to wonder how I could enforce that ... for fun and games on others. And really if we're talking about having to enroll a device into some sort of managed device system, schools don't have the time or manpower to manage tracking every kid's phone that is in the school. And if we're talking about something you don't actively choose to enroll, we're back to my fun and games.
- andrewla 2y agoI agree with this measure on general principles. At the very least phones should not be used in class unless on explicit instruction of the teacher. But I do have that this is phrased as moral panic around "social media". In general, I hate the entire term "social media" because it smooshes together consumption of user-generated content, production of content, consumption of social network and contribution to social networking. These are all very different phenomena. Kids watching Tiktok, Reels, Shorts, or whatever, doesn't really bother me at all. Producing the content bothers me a little more, but mostly as a parent -- I don't like the idea of people leaving a permanent record of all the stupid shit that they thought when they were a kid. The other side of it, social networks, are very much a mixed bag; I'm not certain that the rise of "cyberbullying" or spreading rumors via social media is any worse than it ever has been -- we just have more visibility into it, because instead of a he said/she said about a who started a rumor, you have the screenshot of the rumor being started or spread. Maybe this makes it worse because of the indelibility, or maybe it's ameliorated by the fact that these sorts of rumormongering is so widespread and easy to see.
- tempsy 2y agoYou don't have to believe social media creates mental health issues or exacerbates bullying or whatever. The biggest problem is that it's a massive distraction from learning and also enables cheating, especially now with AI tools.
- andrewla 2y agoIf you are arguing that phone use inside the classroom is a distraction then we're already on the same page. If you're arguing for a total ban even outside the classroom, then I need a little more clarity on how it is a distraction. The cheating ship has scaled; even if you ban the outside the classroom, students still have a "home" where they do "homework" that they can apply whatever cheating mechanisms they want.
- whiplash451 2y agoYou make very good points. I would depart from you on kids watching reels and shorts. I believe infinite feeds to be a very dark feature for adults and kids alike. We should not get our kids used to mindlessly scrolling until their brain fries. On the other hand, I am 100% with you on not mashing everything up into a single "social media" bucket. We need to educate our kids to manage these tools and more importantly, themselves with these tools in hand. A blanket restriction/removal won't be very efficient in the end.
- alex_young 2y agoCan’t you paint the walls with metallic paint and call it a day? Faraday cages work.
- excerionsforte 2y agoI wonder if there's a technological solution such as student's phones joining the school network or use of geofencing to prevent certain phone apps from being able to be used while school is in session. If a parent needs to talk to anyone while in session it should be school administration to not disrupt class or the student unless necessary.
- nytesky 2y agoI’ve been dreaming of this forever. Default geofencing of ALL Apple and Google phones, to go into DND when entering churches, hospitals, schools, theaters, etc. with geofencing and maybe a Bluetooth signal this should be pretty feasible to have good boundaries. Likewise, transition phone into school focus mode (calculator and Google classroom only, canvas etc) would be great. Obv could be overwritten if you are an on call doctor or something, but at least a tool that could help.
- EasyMark 2y agoI think this is an overly complicated solution. Schools functioned just fine before the advent of cell phones.
- nytesky 2y agoHonestly so many parents are pro cell phone, we should develop parallel tracks of classes (think smoking/non smoking). Kids can sign up for the class track that requires they deposit their cell phone in locker; you get 3 strikes and then you are moved for the remainder of the year and the NEXT year to the unfettered cell phone track. In the cell phone track, kids are basically free to do whatever on their phone as long as it’s not actively disruptive to others. We basically had classes like that for kids who were not on an academic path and would spend class time doodling and passing notes.
- xxpor 2y ago(Dumb) phones/iPods/iPhones were all banned during the day when I was in high school (2004-2008). When were they widely unbanned?
- duxup 2y agoI think a lot of schools simply didn't have rules and as they became the method kids use to communicate and get home then those rules vanished. Granted the rules are all coming back with gusto now.
- tathagatadg 2y agoMy nephews on both side of the pond (one in London and one in North Carolina) have received smart watches for their 10th birthday. Mom can call you, you can call mom. Find My for easy tracking by parents.
- pixxel 2y agoMy dog is microchipped, too.
- whateveracct 2y agoPhones were just banned when I was in school. It was iPhone 1 days, so texting was commonplace. Everyone still brought their phone, it just had to be silent and away during class. I don't see why that policy shouldn't continue.
- EasyMark 2y agoBecause it’s worth giving it a shot. It would -probably- be better to do it on a smaller scale like say do it in all LA schools for a year and see how it goes. Then expand the program if it seems successful.
- duxup 2y agoThey're "banned" in my kids school. You can bring them but you have to lock them in your locker at the start of the day until the end of day. If a teacher sees them they take them, kid gets it back at the end of the day on the first offense, on the second offense parents have to come to the school to get the phone, and from then on it works that way. (I like that this puts pressure on the parents) It has worked pretty well.
- whiplash451 2y agoOur school does the same (and I am glad they do) but that does not help kids manage these tools out of school. So, banning might be a good option but not a silver billet.
- duxup 2y agoIt doesn't solve the larger issue, but really the FDA, the schools... none of them can manage these kids outside of school. It has to be the parents. If the FDA or schools try to somehow fix student choices outside of school, they will fail every time.
- whiplash451 2y agoYes 100%, that was my point.
- tivert 2y ago> So, banning might be a good option but not a silver billet. Definitely, and we should not wait for a silver bullet, but make progress where we can.
- bane 2y agoI remember, in ancient history, that my very average public school system had a zero-electronics policy (with the exception of the mandatory TI-xx calculator, medical devices, and watches). Any other electronics, like computers, or musical equipment, were provided for the students by the school for specific classes or lessons. School security guards would wander the halls and catch kids listening to walkmen, or playing with some other gizmo, and seize them -- recoverable only at the end of the year by the student's parents. Cell phones technically existed at the time, but were too expensive and bulky for students to be carrying around. If people had them at all they were usually mounted permanently in a car. While it was pretty draconian, I get why the rule was in place, though I can also see why it would also be relaxed somewhat given the massive increase in the prevalence of personal electronics since the stone age I grew up in. But I don't understand why it's turned into such complete wild west. Even during my time, if you kept it in your bookbag, you were fine. That students are wandering the halls, or sitting in class, on their phones, is mindboggling. "But what about emergencies!", that was trivially handled by all parents having an emergency number, where they could call the school and summon the student in just a couple of minutes over the public address system. I really fear for future generations.
- greentxt 2y agoWhy? The parents are bad. They were ruined by the same technology. Misery loves company.
- Der_Einzige 2y agoI hope some students or parents either sued or physically forced their property back into their possession. School teachers are the most authoritarian group of people that society gives a free pass to and I don’t get why the HN crowd loves to lick their boots.
- DiggyJohnson 2y agoBecause you need to be authoritarian to handle large groups of kids. That's the obvious reason. Otherwise you would have anarchy within the school grounds.
- 2y ago
- webdoodle 2y agoIt should be federally illegal for children to own such addictive and manipulative technology.
- duxup 2y agoBut it's ok for adults to be addicted and manipulated?
- DiggyJohnson 2y agoYes, as a society we have comfortably made this distinction all of the time. Think gambling, or marijuana, nicotine, and alcohol. Or dangerous hobbies. Etc.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- whalesalad 2y agoWhen I was in school (graduated HS in 2007) phones were already not allowed. Teachers would confiscate them all the time. What happened? I guess when gen-z came around this policy fell apart and now we are going back to where we were 20 years ago.
- dghughes 2y agoWhy do kids even need a phone in school? There is no reason they'd need one since they should be learning a subject. At best they'd need a calculator but there are cheap stand alone ones. Here in Canada a few schools have said no phones during school even lunch hour. The kids themselves have said they find they feel better and their studies are better. A phone now would be like allowing comic books to be read in class say in the 1980s.
- elevatedastalt 2y agoI feel most of the effort in the last 2 decades to "bring technology to classrooms" has either been ineffective or even negative. No, Chromebooks and iPads are not needed for most things, and while we all like to pretend that we are using them for "studying", most of the time spent on them is wasted time that stifles creativity. Whenever you bring it up, someone points out the example of Timmy from Grade 4 who made a beautiful digital sketch on his iPad or something, conveniently ignoring the other 99 students who basically wasted hours on the computers with no intellectual stimulation. We probably need fewer electronics in the classroom, and even for stuff like taking notes, kids should be practising the motor skills of writing with their hands.
- ryandrake 2y agoIt's hard to correct the many serious, fundamental problems in K-12 education, but it's easy to write a check and "buy a bunch of technology" so you can look hip and modern at the school board meeting.
- tonymet 2y agoIt also helps to overshadow other ballooning parts of the budget so that administrators face less scrutiny .
- tonymet 2y agoban all electronics. but I wish it were this simple. Like most of our issues, it's a cultural / ethical issue not a tools issue. The phones are sold as leashes for insecure parents to constantly snoop on their kids. Until that culture is corrected, not much will change.
- EasyMark 2y agoThis is an excellent policy in my opinion. I think the FTC should probably make a policy exception for signal jamming cell phones at schools as well for all the more criminally minded kids Faculty and others can get on wifi calling instead.