8 ms·

There seems to be a perception in big companies that if you're not pissing off your customers enough to drive them away, you're leaving money on the table. So t

There seems to be a perception in big companies that if you're not pissing off your customers enough to drive them away, you're leaving money on the table. So there's this constant pseudo-optimizer running to get the maximum profit possible. Thank you Harvard Business School.

harha 2y ago
As an upside, once you’ve pissed off enough customers, you can also quit and provide them with an alternative that packages an open source tool with some enterprise features with marginally better terms
- interludead 2y ago
  Yeah, it feels like I saw an example somewhere
Dalewyn 2y ago
I once read that business is the art of ripping someone off without pissing them off. For better or worse, I agree. If you aren't ripping them off you're leaving money on the table, but if you go too far and piss them off they're going to take away all the money on the table with them.
- amelius 2y ago
  Well you can piss people off in some ways, yet in other ways give them value.
- alickz 2y ago
  > If you aren't ripping them off you're leaving money on the table You're leaving money in their pocket that you might get later How do you quantify loyalty? Because it seems to me that it's very easy for individuals to prioritise short term gains at the cost of medium and long term losses due to trust erosion I wonder how much client satisfaction and trust would be worth on the quarterly report, if it could be calculated. I think it would be immense for most companies
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    Money in their pocket is not money on the table. You are in fact reinforcing my point: Client loyalty and trust is critical in business, you're a lousy businessman if you've damaged that by ripping off your clients too hard angering them. The most effective business is getting all the money on the table and making your client happy. Thusly the art of business, ripping off your client without pissing them off. Absolutely nobody gets ahead in business by selling wares cheaper than what they could have gone for, unless you are deliberately underselling the market to gain share by sheer force of will. Likewise by selling wares higher than what they could have gone for, clients will just look elsewhere because you're just another one of many merchants.
    - queuebert 2y ago
      > Absolutely nobody gets ahead in business by selling wares cheaper than what they could have gone for, ... Explain Costco then.
      - Bloating 2y ago
        Volume. Its all relative to your less efficient competitor
        BenjiWiebe 2y ago
        Didn't Costco get volume by selling things cheaper then they could have?
        brianwawok 2y ago
        They also have less items for sale so each sells more.
        datavirtue 2y ago
        People with Costco memberships view shopping as a sport. Instead of golfing, they go buy shit and eat hot dogs.
draugadrotten 2y ago
For another example of the same behaviour, watch the development of Sports in European cable - Viaplay for example. Starting 2016 the headlines of the press has been "Viaplay chockhöjer priserna" ( Viaplay shockingly raise their prices ) They have now jacked up their prices to a level where customers are now not only leaving(1), but actively hating the company online(2 - see comments), as well as teaching friends about pirate IPTV alternatives. At the same time the management of Viaplay have raised their compensation levels to ridiculous levels. The company itself is suffering financially from all this, but management is richer and fatter than ever before(3). 1. https://teknikveckan.se/det-krisar-hos-viaplay-over-25-procent-av-personalen-far-lamna/ https://teknikveckan.se/det-krisar-hos-viaplay-over-25-proce... 2. See comments - https://twitter.com/ViaplaySportSE/status/1801533221663846705 https://twitter.com/ViaplaySportSE/status/180153322166384670... 3. https://omni.se/sparkade-vdn-jobbade-fem-manader-far-18-miljoner/a/y6e3QR https://omni.se/sparkade-vdn-jobbade-fem-manader-far-18-milj...
- etrvic 2y ago
  The same thing happend with Netflix raising prices. Probably everyone nobody canceled their subscription after the increased price just becouse it’s not worth the effort. And the price raise is incremental just so nobody will complain.
  - jnsie 2y ago
    Boiling the frog, so to speak
    - inquist 2y ago
      Turns out frogs are smarter than we thought https://web.archive.org/web/20240118204920/https://www.fastcompany.com/26455/next-time-what-say-we-boil-consultant https://web.archive.org/web/20240118204920/https://www.fastc...
      - sierra1011 2y ago
        That story actually came about from a scientist doing experiments on frogs. Frogs with removed brains. Arguably the frogs are not smarter than we thought See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog under the Experiments header.
postmodest 2y ago
"We can cut costs if we sell to a few whales and not a broad audience"
vasco 2y ago
I've seen business cases predicting 70% churn that were entertained for months because of the revenue potential. Reminds me of the "men only want one thing and it's disgusting" meme but with executives.
dd82 2y ago
At a certain size company, you being a professional asshole is a requirement for any position. Also being very good at lying and deceiving. The danger begins when those people start believing their own lies.
- interludead 2y ago
  When aggressive, deceitful behavior becomes normalized...
interludead 2y ago
Indeed, businesses can maximize profits by pushing the limits of customer tolerance. And I see that often now
- iamleppert 2y ago
  It's important to recognize that the only thing that matters is how big of a bag you can get. Making money is the only point of tech. Get in, get your bag, and get out!

harha 2y ago

As an upside, once you’ve pissed off enough customers, you can also quit and provide them with an alternative that packages an open source tool with some enterprise features with marginally better terms

interludead 2y ago
Yeah, it feels like I saw an example somewhere

Dalewyn 2y ago

I once read that business is the art of ripping someone off without pissing them off. For better or worse, I agree. If you aren't ripping them off you're leaving money on the table, but if you go too far and piss them off they're going to take away all the money on the table with them.

amelius 2y ago
Well you can piss people off in some ways, yet in other ways give them value.
alickz 2y ago
> If you aren't ripping them off you're leaving money on the table You're leaving money in their pocket that you might get later How do you quantify loyalty? Because it seems to me that it's very easy for individuals to prioritise short term gains at the cost of medium and long term losses due to trust erosion I wonder how much client satisfaction and trust would be worth on the quarterly report, if it could be calculated. I think it would be immense for most companies
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  Money in their pocket is not money on the table. You are in fact reinforcing my point: Client loyalty and trust is critical in business, you're a lousy businessman if you've damaged that by ripping off your clients too hard angering them. The most effective business is getting all the money on the table and making your client happy. Thusly the art of business, ripping off your client without pissing them off. Absolutely nobody gets ahead in business by selling wares cheaper than what they could have gone for, unless you are deliberately underselling the market to gain share by sheer force of will. Likewise by selling wares higher than what they could have gone for, clients will just look elsewhere because you're just another one of many merchants.
  - queuebert 2y ago
    > Absolutely nobody gets ahead in business by selling wares cheaper than what they could have gone for, ... Explain Costco then.
    - Bloating 2y ago
      Volume. Its all relative to your less efficient competitor
      - BenjiWiebe 2y ago
        Didn't Costco get volume by selling things cheaper then they could have?
        brianwawok 2y ago
        They also have less items for sale so each sells more.
      - datavirtue 2y ago
        People with Costco memberships view shopping as a sport. Instead of golfing, they go buy shit and eat hot dogs.

draugadrotten 2y ago

For another example of the same behaviour, watch the development of Sports in European cable - Viaplay for example. Starting 2016 the headlines of the press has been "Viaplay chockhöjer priserna" ( Viaplay shockingly raise their prices ) They have now jacked up their prices to a level where customers are now not only leaving(1), but actively hating the company online(2 - see comments), as well as teaching friends about pirate IPTV alternatives. At the same time the management of Viaplay have raised their compensation levels to ridiculous levels. The company itself is suffering financially from all this, but management is richer and fatter than ever before(3). 1. https://teknikveckan.se/det-krisar-hos-viaplay-over-25-procent-av-personalen-far-lamna/ https://teknikveckan.se/det-krisar-hos-viaplay-over-25-proce... 2. See comments - https://twitter.com/ViaplaySportSE/status/1801533221663846705 https://twitter.com/ViaplaySportSE/status/180153322166384670... 3. https://omni.se/sparkade-vdn-jobbade-fem-manader-far-18-miljoner/a/y6e3QR https://omni.se/sparkade-vdn-jobbade-fem-manader-far-18-milj...

etrvic 2y ago
The same thing happend with Netflix raising prices. Probably everyone nobody canceled their subscription after the increased price just becouse it’s not worth the effort. And the price raise is incremental just so nobody will complain.
- jnsie 2y ago
  Boiling the frog, so to speak
  - inquist 2y ago
    Turns out frogs are smarter than we thought https://web.archive.org/web/20240118204920/https://www.fastcompany.com/26455/next-time-what-say-we-boil-consultant https://web.archive.org/web/20240118204920/https://www.fastc...
    - sierra1011 2y ago
      That story actually came about from a scientist doing experiments on frogs. Frogs with removed brains. Arguably the frogs are not smarter than we thought See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog under the Experiments header.

postmodest 2y ago

"We can cut costs if we sell to a few whales and not a broad audience"

vasco 2y ago

I've seen business cases predicting 70% churn that were entertained for months because of the revenue potential. Reminds me of the "men only want one thing and it's disgusting" meme but with executives.

dd82 2y ago

At a certain size company, you being a professional asshole is a requirement for any position. Also being very good at lying and deceiving. The danger begins when those people start believing their own lies.

interludead 2y ago
When aggressive, deceitful behavior becomes normalized...

interludead 2y ago

Indeed, businesses can maximize profits by pushing the limits of customer tolerance. And I see that often now

iamleppert 2y ago
It's important to recognize that the only thing that matters is how big of a bag you can get. Making money is the only point of tech. Get in, get your bag, and get out!