14 ms·

Salt, We Misjudged You

314 points by gruseom 14y ago

singingwolfboy 14y ago
Everything in moderation.
- Karunamon 14y ago
  Seriously, almost all of modern food/health science could be reduced down to this simple phrase. Eating too much of "X" is bad for you. No, really? Ya think? Even cigarettes in moderation won't kill you.
  - gfosco 14y ago
    I had fun debating the cigarette thing with my doctor.
  - frankc 14y ago
    I don't mean to beat this to death, but any kind of statement about moderation presupposes that we already understand how different amount of some substance will effect us. The topic under discussion boils down to "what is too little, what is too much and what is moderation?". You cannot answer that with "just go for moderation" when moderation is precisely what we are trying to define. I see this kind of thing all the time and it irks me because I see so much agreement with what amounts to a circular statement.
- frankc 14y ago
  No offense but this is really an intellectually weak statement because moderation is dependent on what is considered "too much", and here we are looking to redefine just what "too much" really is.
- gruseom 14y ago
  That's a tautology. The question is, what counts as a moderate intake of salt? If Taubes is correct, average US salt intake is moderate. The government says it is excessive.
- abtinf 14y ago
  Everything in moderation. Extreme moderation.
- mikeash 14y ago
  Everything in moderation, especially moderation.
teeray 14y ago
"If it disagrees with experiment, it is wrong" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXABcv9djQ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXABcv9djQ0
jswinghammer 14y ago
As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I considered that the grains were the cause of my problems.
- mkoivuni 14y ago
  Agreed, nutritional "science" and conventional wisdom has become a joke.
  - frankc 14y ago
    It should be noted that the author of the linked article is Gary Taubes, who is best known for Good Calories, Bad Calories, a book that seeks to turn the conventional wisdom of nutrition on its head.
    - jere 14y ago
      I loved GCBC, but unfortunately Taubes goes a little bit too far near the end in condemning carbohydrates. It's really hard to recommend the book because of that overreaching. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-h...
      - psykotic 14y ago
        A little too far is an understatement. I read GCBC when it came out and found its arguments compelling at the time. After learning more, I've reversed my opinion almost completely. James Krieger's critique of the core chapter of GCBC is very worthwhile reading: http://weightology.net/?p=265 http://weightology.net/?p=265. His blog also has other articles addressing the core Atkins-Taubes thesis of the link between insulin, carbs and obesity. Alan Aragon's Research Reviews had an Editor's Cut on Taubes, as well as pieces specifically on the role of insulin and carbs in obesity and weight gain, but unfortunately all that is subscriber-only. Lyle McDonald (who literally wrote the book on ketogenic diets) has also written a lot on that whole orbit of ideas--never an article against GCBC directly, though he has certainly expressed his negative opinion of it on many occasions.
3pt14159 14y ago
Sort of an aside here, but salt and MSG should be used to increase the tastiness of otherwise bland foods, like asparagus, so that what you eat is more in line with what your body needs, rather than what is the most tasty in our post-industrial world. That is how I use salt: reduce starches and refined grains, and increase vegetables, lentils, and the like. Sure I still have some bread and a normal amount of meat (at least by Canadian standards), but I prefer to make healthy foods delicious.
- riffraff 14y ago
  just FYI, in the pre-industrial world of my home town you can still go picking up wild asparagus[1] which are _far_ from bland, I have no idea if those exist in any form where you live but I strongly advice you to try them out if you can. [1] stuff like this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__88ZCQ5jRIs/Sju4DrHvsZI/AAAAAAAAg18/bRtUE5vIqh0/s400/asparagi-selvatici.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__88ZCQ5jRIs/Sju4DrHvsZI/AAAAAAAAg1...
  - NoPiece 14y ago
    That looks amazing, but wouldn't you season it? A little olive oil and salt then throw it on the grill for a minute?
    - riffraff 14y ago
      well, I would, but then again I seldom put health before taste I'm afraid. (though in this case, seasoning them with lemon+olive oil after boiling _is_ the most traditional recipe and reasonably good for your body I think)
- streptomycin 14y ago
  > salt and MSG should be used to increase the tastiness of otherwise bland foods, like asparagus False. Asparagus (like many vegetables) should be roasted with garlic in a little bit of oil.
  - 14y ago
alecdibble 14y ago
I have always wondered why so many facets of "institutional health" are promoted as the status quo even with much contradictory evidence or lack of "common sense". A couple of things that come to mind: salt saturated fats sugars I know many instances of this problem have to do with monetary interests. But salt? Who gains from low salt intake? Reputation? Or is it something else.
- Cushman 14y ago
  Taube's theory (about cholesterol, but I think it applies here as well) is that it's "where the light is". Things which are measurable are optimized for even if they're pragmatically pointless. So a study comes along that finds a correlation between sodium intake and cardiovascular disease. Totally possible. The USDA looks at those numbers and says, we're eating Xmg of salt, we should be eating Ymg. They make a recommendation, years go by, and they look at the numbers again and, hey, salt consumption is down to Ymg! Success! What about mortality? Who knows. That's not their department.
- teeray 14y ago
  Not to sound like I'm putting on my tin-foil hat, but a lot of money floats around in this space. It's entirely possible for a segment of the food industry to be viewed the same as cigarette companies if extensive studies show that, for example, eating cereal is actually killing you. No company wants that death sentence, pun not intended :-P
Cushman 14y ago
All right! Next up: MSG. Even those of my friends who know that the health concerns are bogus have a weird paranoia of MSG. I think it's a general suspicion of any chemical which makes food taste better (which somehow doesn't apply to salt and sugar).
- fein 14y ago
  I think part of the problem with MSG is the name. It's hard to convince the general public that something with the name "Monosodium Glutamate" is a naturally occurring substance, let alone one of the more abundant naturally occurring amino acids. Hell, if we called table salt "Sodium Chloride" all the time, people would probably have a bit of a changed perspective. None the less, MSG is delicious!
  - Cushman 14y ago
    I think that's the idea behind the "All Natural AC'CENT® Flavor Enhancer" branding-- they don't say "monosodium glutamate" anywhere on the package except the ingredients. I just call it supersalt. Because it's like salt, but not salty!
    - fein 14y ago
      Technically, MSG is supposed to be the "extra" taste area they didn't know about/ teach in school. So although it seems salty, it's actually the savory flavor. MSG is found in just about every single food you eat that has that "savory" flavor.
      - Cushman 14y ago
        Good point, and why it's an indispensable seasoning.
      - whatusername 14y ago
        The "Extra" taste is called Umami: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami Also -- despite what you may have learned in school -- the taste buds aren't mapped to areas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions (Search for Taste for links to the relevant sources)
aero142 14y ago
There was an idea in 'Fat Head' where the narrator pokes fun at the idea that we are a species who's evolution has made us so that we crave foods that are actually killing us. It's not proof that we can't crave foods like sugar, fats and salt that might be harmful to us, but I think it sets up a health amount of skepticism towards the idea that our innate cravings are in fact harmful.
- patrickk 14y ago
  "...we are a species who's evolution has made us so that we crave foods that are actually killing us." "...it sets up a health amount of skepticism towards the idea that our innate cravings are in fact harmful." It's modern processed food that's harmful. We evolved to cope with the amount of salt, sugar, carbohydrates etc. that was readily available to our ancestors on a hunter-gatherer diet (we would've reached an evolutionary dead end otherwise if our "innate cravings" were not useful to us in a survival sense) - you would have to do a lot of hunting and gathering to get the amount of salt, sugar, saturated fat etc that a single fast food meal provides - it was relatively rarer so we have cravings to ensure we got enough of them back when they were scarce. Evolution is a very slow process. Adding syrup to carbonated water, advertising the crap out of it and selling it at huge markup (coca-cola) can happen over the course of a single human's lifespan.
  - ticks 14y ago
    Indeed. Some processing is good, but a lot of it just makes the food too easy to eat. I would argue that even processing food at home, such as mashing potatoes can be a problem unless you are careful about the portion size - i.e. remember how many potatoes were used to make it.
  - aero142 14y ago
    Salt is a very important part of a human's diet and was a major trade item for all of recorded history. Salt has been used as a preservative for meat for as long as I'm aware of. Animals often sit and lick natural salt deposits. There is a common belief that meat and especially fat are bad for you and cause heart disease, which is the particular idea that Fat Head makes fun of. He reduces his carb and sugar intake and lowers his cholesterol and loses weight. I quit drinking soda and reduced my sugar intake because it made me feel bad. I sometimes crave sugar after running a lot or when I'm tired and I will occasionally drink a soda, but I usually regret it. Same with candy etc. I can only speak for myself, but the idea that my natural cravings and the reaction of my body are good indicators of what is healthy has been very successful for me. I currently believe that fat and meat, plus vegetables are very health and I crave all these things. My body is very sugar sensitive and so I avoid it because of how I feel. The guide that my evolutionary tastes are not trying to kill me seems to be a pretty good guide towards finding a healthy diet, and I believe it will serve me better than the National Health Services recommendations have. If you believe that there is good reason that evolution may be guiding you towards something unhealthy, you may be right, but my default answer is the it is correct unless there is a better explanation.
arn 14y ago
So, I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. And I'll be upfront. I'm probably biased on the side of medicine on this one. I'm a former nephrologist. The one study this person mentions by name (and dismisses) is the DASH-Sodium Study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results "Like the previous study, it was based on a large sample (412 participants) and was a multi-center, randomized, outpatient feeding study where the subjects were given all their food." "The DASH-Sodium study found that reductions in sodium intake produced significantly lower systolic and diastolic blood pressures in both the control and DASH diets. Study results indicate that the quantity of dietary sodium in the control diet was twice as powerful in its effect on blood pressure as it was in the DASH diet." So, positive conclusions (lower salt -> lower blood pressure) in a seemingly well designed study. People were randomized, it was prospective, and people given all their food. So, change one thing and see what happens. The author here seems to cite other studies to make the opposing case (low salt = bad), but doesn't give exact references. I did a quick google search and found this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/health/research/04salt.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/health/research/04salt.htm... But you can already tell it's an inferior study. "It involved only those without high blood pressure at the start, was observational, considered at best suggestive and not conclusive." So, let's try to compare apples to apples. He points out that the DASH study didn't conclude anything about death or cardiovascular disease. Yes, that's true. So sure, there's a chance that despite blood pressure reductions a low salt diet could cause problems. But it's not the obvious conclusion. Anyone have any solid studies on this?
- streptomycin 14y ago
  > I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. I usually do too, especially articles about nutrition which are notoriously unreliable due to the near complete lack of randomized, controlled, prospective studies and the abundance of observational studies, but this one doesn't seem too bad. In fact, the same author published a similar article in Science last millennium http://www.stat.berkeley.edu/users/rice/Stat2/salt.html http://www.stat.berkeley.edu/users/rice/Stat2/salt.html so I don't think you can blame the mainstream media too much here if they're just printing an article similar to what would satisfy Science's editorial standards.
dbbolton 14y ago
Increased blood osmolarity will lead to an increase in blood volume, period. If you add fluid to a closed system, the pressure of that fluid on its container will increase. However, in most cases, excess solutes should be excreted relatively quickly and blood volume will return to normal.
- goostavos 14y ago
  >If you add fluid to a closed system, the pressure of that fluid on its container will increase. Does the inverse hold up as well (in regards to the human body)? If people have high blood pressure, if the gave a couple of pints of blood each month, would that do anything to lower the pressure?
  - dbbolton 14y ago
    Of course it would lower the pressure temporarily, until the body restored blood volume to normal levels. But hypertension is defined medically as a chronic condition.
Meiscooldude 14y ago
Fat Head (2009) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgBLQIJEcbE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgBLQIJEcbE
gouranga 14y ago
TBH my general health has improved after I stopped giving a crap about rules and regulations and just eat when I need to not when I want to. Determining between want and need is the hard bit.
harrisreynolds 14y ago
The harsh reality is that there are so many variables when it comes to diet and nutrition information that formal studies are close to worthless. That is why I find information like the studies Weston Price did [1] interesting. His conclusion was that any society on a whole food local diet was generally healthy and that pre-mature physical degeneration only happened when "primitive" diets were replaced with "modern" diets (i.e. highly processed). Here's a simple rule. If you could find/grow it in your back yard, eat it. If not don't. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston-Andrew/dp/0879838167 http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston...
FixThisPOSSite 14y ago
Not really tech news.
artsrc 14y ago
This misinterpretation of what the authors of the study Cochrane should have said, led to the conclusions being re-written to conform to what was actually found: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0138yld http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0138yld
gregwebs 14y ago
There is a good overview of evidence on salt in this series of articles: http://chriskresser.com/shaking-up-the-salt-myth-the-dangers-of-salt-restriction http://chriskresser.com/shaking-up-the-salt-myth-the-dangers... Gary Taubes (author of this article) goes over the evidence on salt restriction in more detail in Good Calorires, Bad Calories, but it is missing some recent studies indicating negative outcomes for salt restriction. I believe Taubes is often wrong (as most people are) when proposing his hypotheses. But he is very good at tearing down wrong hyptoheses.
brm 14y ago
This is the best, most reasonable thinking I've read on this study (From Jay Parkinson, the M.D. behind the startup sherpaa.com) http://blog.jayparkinsonmd.com/post/24488678085/when-i-read-that-something-is-good-or-bad-for-you http://blog.jayparkinsonmd.com/post/24488678085/when-i-read-...
aurelianito 14y ago
Am I the only one who saw this title and thought about salted password hashes stored in a database?
gantz 14y ago
Is there at all a system to try to compare studies or evaluate how apples to apples they are?
jiltgeis 14y ago
The important thing to remember is that processed salt, which is devoid of all minerals and trace elements is not the same as good-quality natural sea salt, which does contain the trace elements and minerals and is able to be absorbed by the body more easily. Processed salt actually saps the body's mineral reserves and is very hard on the body. In colder harsher seasons for those living in temperate climates, more (good quality) salt is necessary than for people living in the tropical regions for example. Moreover, practically all general restaurant food has entirely too much processed salt content and will actually age you overnight.
jiltgeis 14y ago
The important thing to remember is that processed salt, which is devoid of all minerals and trace elements is not the same as good-quality natural sea salt, which does contain the trace elements and minerals and is able to be absorbed by the body more easily. Processed salt actually saps the body's mineral reserves and is very hard on the body. In colder harsher seasons for those living in temperate climates, more (good quality) salt is necessary than for people living in the tropical regions for example. Moreover, practically all general restaurant food has entirely too much processed salt content and will actually age you overnight.
tripzilch 14y ago
People should just learn to use bcrypt to season their food.

314 points by gruseom 14y ago

singingwolfboy 14y ago

Everything in moderation.

Karunamon 14y ago
Seriously, almost all of modern food/health science could be reduced down to this simple phrase. Eating too much of "X" is bad for you. No, really? Ya think? Even cigarettes in moderation won't kill you.
- gfosco 14y ago
  I had fun debating the cigarette thing with my doctor.
- frankc 14y ago
  I don't mean to beat this to death, but any kind of statement about moderation presupposes that we already understand how different amount of some substance will effect us. The topic under discussion boils down to "what is too little, what is too much and what is moderation?". You cannot answer that with "just go for moderation" when moderation is precisely what we are trying to define. I see this kind of thing all the time and it irks me because I see so much agreement with what amounts to a circular statement.
frankc 14y ago
No offense but this is really an intellectually weak statement because moderation is dependent on what is considered "too much", and here we are looking to redefine just what "too much" really is.
gruseom 14y ago
That's a tautology. The question is, what counts as a moderate intake of salt? If Taubes is correct, average US salt intake is moderate. The government says it is excessive.
abtinf 14y ago
Everything in moderation. Extreme moderation.
mikeash 14y ago
Everything in moderation, especially moderation.

teeray 14y ago

"If it disagrees with experiment, it is wrong" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXABcv9djQ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXABcv9djQ0

jswinghammer 14y ago

As someone who has lost around 40 pounds of fat switching to the high fat paleo diet I'm not at all surprised that the current state of the conventional wisdom on food is wrong in any number of ways. It is funny that we really have no idea what we should be eating naturally at all. Grains were making me sick and I didn't notice for years. It wasn't until I read a book listing side effects of grain consumption that I considered that the grains were the cause of my problems.

mkoivuni 14y ago
Agreed, nutritional "science" and conventional wisdom has become a joke.
- frankc 14y ago
  It should be noted that the author of the linked article is Gary Taubes, who is best known for Good Calories, Bad Calories, a book that seeks to turn the conventional wisdom of nutrition on its head.
  - jere 14y ago
    I loved GCBC, but unfortunately Taubes goes a little bit too far near the end in condemning carbohydrates. It's really hard to recommend the book because of that overreaching. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-h...
    - psykotic 14y ago
      A little too far is an understatement. I read GCBC when it came out and found its arguments compelling at the time. After learning more, I've reversed my opinion almost completely. James Krieger's critique of the core chapter of GCBC is very worthwhile reading: http://weightology.net/?p=265 http://weightology.net/?p=265. His blog also has other articles addressing the core Atkins-Taubes thesis of the link between insulin, carbs and obesity. Alan Aragon's Research Reviews had an Editor's Cut on Taubes, as well as pieces specifically on the role of insulin and carbs in obesity and weight gain, but unfortunately all that is subscriber-only. Lyle McDonald (who literally wrote the book on ketogenic diets) has also written a lot on that whole orbit of ideas--never an article against GCBC directly, though he has certainly expressed his negative opinion of it on many occasions.

3pt14159 14y ago

Sort of an aside here, but salt and MSG should be used to increase the tastiness of otherwise bland foods, like asparagus, so that what you eat is more in line with what your body needs, rather than what is the most tasty in our post-industrial world. That is how I use salt: reduce starches and refined grains, and increase vegetables, lentils, and the like. Sure I still have some bread and a normal amount of meat (at least by Canadian standards), but I prefer to make healthy foods delicious.

riffraff 14y ago
just FYI, in the pre-industrial world of my home town you can still go picking up wild asparagus[1] which are _far_ from bland, I have no idea if those exist in any form where you live but I strongly advice you to try them out if you can. [1] stuff like this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__88ZCQ5jRIs/Sju4DrHvsZI/AAAAAAAAg18/bRtUE5vIqh0/s400/asparagi-selvatici.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__88ZCQ5jRIs/Sju4DrHvsZI/AAAAAAAAg1...
- NoPiece 14y ago
  That looks amazing, but wouldn't you season it? A little olive oil and salt then throw it on the grill for a minute?
  - riffraff 14y ago
    well, I would, but then again I seldom put health before taste I'm afraid. (though in this case, seasoning them with lemon+olive oil after boiling _is_ the most traditional recipe and reasonably good for your body I think)
streptomycin 14y ago
> salt and MSG should be used to increase the tastiness of otherwise bland foods, like asparagus False. Asparagus (like many vegetables) should be roasted with garlic in a little bit of oil.
- 14y ago

alecdibble 14y ago

I have always wondered why so many facets of "institutional health" are promoted as the status quo even with much contradictory evidence or lack of "common sense". A couple of things that come to mind: salt saturated fats sugars I know many instances of this problem have to do with monetary interests. But salt? Who gains from low salt intake? Reputation? Or is it something else.

Cushman 14y ago
Taube's theory (about cholesterol, but I think it applies here as well) is that it's "where the light is". Things which are measurable are optimized for even if they're pragmatically pointless. So a study comes along that finds a correlation between sodium intake and cardiovascular disease. Totally possible. The USDA looks at those numbers and says, we're eating Xmg of salt, we should be eating Ymg. They make a recommendation, years go by, and they look at the numbers again and, hey, salt consumption is down to Ymg! Success! What about mortality? Who knows. That's not their department.
teeray 14y ago
Not to sound like I'm putting on my tin-foil hat, but a lot of money floats around in this space. It's entirely possible for a segment of the food industry to be viewed the same as cigarette companies if extensive studies show that, for example, eating cereal is actually killing you. No company wants that death sentence, pun not intended :-P

Cushman 14y ago

All right! Next up: MSG. Even those of my friends who know that the health concerns are bogus have a weird paranoia of MSG. I think it's a general suspicion of any chemical which makes food taste better (which somehow doesn't apply to salt and sugar).

fein 14y ago
I think part of the problem with MSG is the name. It's hard to convince the general public that something with the name "Monosodium Glutamate" is a naturally occurring substance, let alone one of the more abundant naturally occurring amino acids. Hell, if we called table salt "Sodium Chloride" all the time, people would probably have a bit of a changed perspective. None the less, MSG is delicious!
- Cushman 14y ago
  I think that's the idea behind the "All Natural AC'CENT® Flavor Enhancer" branding-- they don't say "monosodium glutamate" anywhere on the package except the ingredients. I just call it supersalt. Because it's like salt, but not salty!
  - fein 14y ago
    Technically, MSG is supposed to be the "extra" taste area they didn't know about/ teach in school. So although it seems salty, it's actually the savory flavor. MSG is found in just about every single food you eat that has that "savory" flavor.
    - Cushman 14y ago
      Good point, and why it's an indispensable seasoning.
    - whatusername 14y ago
      The "Extra" taste is called Umami: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami Also -- despite what you may have learned in school -- the taste buds aren't mapped to areas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions (Search for Taste for links to the relevant sources)

aero142 14y ago

There was an idea in 'Fat Head' where the narrator pokes fun at the idea that we are a species who's evolution has made us so that we crave foods that are actually killing us. It's not proof that we can't crave foods like sugar, fats and salt that might be harmful to us, but I think it sets up a health amount of skepticism towards the idea that our innate cravings are in fact harmful.

patrickk 14y ago
"...we are a species who's evolution has made us so that we crave foods that are actually killing us." "...it sets up a health amount of skepticism towards the idea that our innate cravings are in fact harmful." It's modern processed food that's harmful. We evolved to cope with the amount of salt, sugar, carbohydrates etc. that was readily available to our ancestors on a hunter-gatherer diet (we would've reached an evolutionary dead end otherwise if our "innate cravings" were not useful to us in a survival sense) - you would have to do a lot of hunting and gathering to get the amount of salt, sugar, saturated fat etc that a single fast food meal provides - it was relatively rarer so we have cravings to ensure we got enough of them back when they were scarce. Evolution is a very slow process. Adding syrup to carbonated water, advertising the crap out of it and selling it at huge markup (coca-cola) can happen over the course of a single human's lifespan.
- ticks 14y ago
  Indeed. Some processing is good, but a lot of it just makes the food too easy to eat. I would argue that even processing food at home, such as mashing potatoes can be a problem unless you are careful about the portion size - i.e. remember how many potatoes were used to make it.
- aero142 14y ago
  Salt is a very important part of a human's diet and was a major trade item for all of recorded history. Salt has been used as a preservative for meat for as long as I'm aware of. Animals often sit and lick natural salt deposits. There is a common belief that meat and especially fat are bad for you and cause heart disease, which is the particular idea that Fat Head makes fun of. He reduces his carb and sugar intake and lowers his cholesterol and loses weight. I quit drinking soda and reduced my sugar intake because it made me feel bad. I sometimes crave sugar after running a lot or when I'm tired and I will occasionally drink a soda, but I usually regret it. Same with candy etc. I can only speak for myself, but the idea that my natural cravings and the reaction of my body are good indicators of what is healthy has been very successful for me. I currently believe that fat and meat, plus vegetables are very health and I crave all these things. My body is very sugar sensitive and so I avoid it because of how I feel. The guide that my evolutionary tastes are not trying to kill me seems to be a pretty good guide towards finding a healthy diet, and I believe it will serve me better than the National Health Services recommendations have. If you believe that there is good reason that evolution may be guiding you towards something unhealthy, you may be right, but my default answer is the it is correct unless there is a better explanation.

arn 14y ago

So, I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. And I'll be upfront. I'm probably biased on the side of medicine on this one. I'm a former nephrologist. The one study this person mentions by name (and dismisses) is the DASH-Sodium Study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH_diet#Study_Results "Like the previous study, it was based on a large sample (412 participants) and was a multi-center, randomized, outpatient feeding study where the subjects were given all their food." "The DASH-Sodium study found that reductions in sodium intake produced significantly lower systolic and diastolic blood pressures in both the control and DASH diets. Study results indicate that the quantity of dietary sodium in the control diet was twice as powerful in its effect on blood pressure as it was in the DASH diet." So, positive conclusions (lower salt -> lower blood pressure) in a seemingly well designed study. People were randomized, it was prospective, and people given all their food. So, change one thing and see what happens. The author here seems to cite other studies to make the opposing case (low salt = bad), but doesn't give exact references. I did a quick google search and found this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/health/research/04salt.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/health/research/04salt.htm... But you can already tell it's an inferior study. "It involved only those without high blood pressure at the start, was observational, considered at best suggestive and not conclusive." So, let's try to compare apples to apples. He points out that the DASH study didn't conclude anything about death or cardiovascular disease. Yes, that's true. So sure, there's a chance that despite blood pressure reductions a low salt diet could cause problems. But it's not the obvious conclusion. Anyone have any solid studies on this?

streptomycin 14y ago
> I always cringe a little when I read medical conclusions in the mainstream media. I usually do too, especially articles about nutrition which are notoriously unreliable due to the near complete lack of randomized, controlled, prospective studies and the abundance of observational studies, but this one doesn't seem too bad. In fact, the same author published a similar article in Science last millennium http://www.stat.berkeley.edu/users/rice/Stat2/salt.html http://www.stat.berkeley.edu/users/rice/Stat2/salt.html so I don't think you can blame the mainstream media too much here if they're just printing an article similar to what would satisfy Science's editorial standards.

dbbolton 14y ago

Increased blood osmolarity will lead to an increase in blood volume, period. If you add fluid to a closed system, the pressure of that fluid on its container will increase. However, in most cases, excess solutes should be excreted relatively quickly and blood volume will return to normal.

goostavos 14y ago
>If you add fluid to a closed system, the pressure of that fluid on its container will increase. Does the inverse hold up as well (in regards to the human body)? If people have high blood pressure, if the gave a couple of pints of blood each month, would that do anything to lower the pressure?
- dbbolton 14y ago
  Of course it would lower the pressure temporarily, until the body restored blood volume to normal levels. But hypertension is defined medically as a chronic condition.

Meiscooldude 14y ago

Fat Head (2009) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgBLQIJEcbE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgBLQIJEcbE

gouranga 14y ago

TBH my general health has improved after I stopped giving a crap about rules and regulations and just eat when I need to not when I want to. Determining between want and need is the hard bit.

harrisreynolds 14y ago

The harsh reality is that there are so many variables when it comes to diet and nutrition information that formal studies are close to worthless. That is why I find information like the studies Weston Price did [1] interesting. His conclusion was that any society on a whole food local diet was generally healthy and that pre-mature physical degeneration only happened when "primitive" diets were replaced with "modern" diets (i.e. highly processed). Here's a simple rule. If you could find/grow it in your back yard, eat it. If not don't. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston-Andrew/dp/0879838167 http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston...

FixThisPOSSite 14y ago

Not really tech news.

artsrc 14y ago

This misinterpretation of what the authors of the study Cochrane should have said, led to the conclusions being re-written to conform to what was actually found: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0138yld http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0138yld

gregwebs 14y ago

There is a good overview of evidence on salt in this series of articles: http://chriskresser.com/shaking-up-the-salt-myth-the-dangers-of-salt-restriction http://chriskresser.com/shaking-up-the-salt-myth-the-dangers... Gary Taubes (author of this article) goes over the evidence on salt restriction in more detail in Good Calorires, Bad Calories, but it is missing some recent studies indicating negative outcomes for salt restriction. I believe Taubes is often wrong (as most people are) when proposing his hypotheses. But he is very good at tearing down wrong hyptoheses.

brm 14y ago

This is the best, most reasonable thinking I've read on this study (From Jay Parkinson, the M.D. behind the startup sherpaa.com) http://blog.jayparkinsonmd.com/post/24488678085/when-i-read-that-something-is-good-or-bad-for-you http://blog.jayparkinsonmd.com/post/24488678085/when-i-read-...

aurelianito 14y ago

Am I the only one who saw this title and thought about salted password hashes stored in a database?

gantz 14y ago

Is there at all a system to try to compare studies or evaluate how apples to apples they are?

jiltgeis 14y ago

The important thing to remember is that processed salt, which is devoid of all minerals and trace elements is not the same as good-quality natural sea salt, which does contain the trace elements and minerals and is able to be absorbed by the body more easily. Processed salt actually saps the body's mineral reserves and is very hard on the body. In colder harsher seasons for those living in temperate climates, more (good quality) salt is necessary than for people living in the tropical regions for example. Moreover, practically all general restaurant food has entirely too much processed salt content and will actually age you overnight.

jiltgeis 14y ago

tripzilch 14y ago

People should just learn to use bcrypt to season their food.