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Same with tech and China. They fold like paper without any protest: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html https://www.

Same with tech and China. They fold like paper without any protest: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-censorship-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce... Chinese state employees physically manage the computers. Apple abandoned the encryption technology it used elsewhere after China would not allow it. And the digital keys that unlock information on those computers are stored in the data centers they’re meant to secure.

mdhb 2y ago
Apple have repeatedly thrown their customers under the bus especially in China. At least Google had the courage to withdraw entirely.
- thenthenthen 2y ago
  Google never left China, they literally just moved to a new building on the other side of the road (in Zhongguancun, Beijing). They even “left a couple of boxes there”[1]. [1] Blum, Andrew, Tubes: A Journey to the Center of the Internet. New York, Ecco, 2012. https://archive.org/details/unset0000unse_p9b6 https://archive.org/details/unset0000unse_p9b6
  - ApolloFortyNine 2y ago
    You can't even install the play store in China... Google hasn't been accessible there since in 15 years. You can buy an iPhone there today, and Apple has agreements with China to hand over user data and has done so in the past.
    - thenthenthen 2y ago
      Apple has a datacenter in Gui’an New Area, Guiyang, Guizhou, China (run by GCBD[1]). [1] https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/gcbd-terms.html https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/gcbd...
    - jhugo 2y ago
      > You can't even install the play store in China... Google hasn't been accessible there since in 15 years. You and GP are both correct. Most Google services are not accessible in China but Google the company still has a significant presence there.
  - SR2Z 2y ago
    Google in China is virtually a different company than the US - laptops and desktops issued by Google in the US will automatically erase their disks if they detect they're in one of a few countries (Iran, China, Russia, NK, etc.) and there is an entirely separate flow for workers there since GMail and the corporate intranet are inaccessible.
- m3kw9 2y ago
  Apple leaving china does essentially nothing, the people there won’t get end to end encryption either way
- sitkack 2y ago
  Google employees had the courage to force Google to pretend to withdraw.
  - zelphirkalt 2y ago
    But rarely do they have the courage to quit their jobs or go on strike, when Google does the next anti privacy thing.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - immibis 2y ago
      They tried it against Google's support of Israel and were immediately fired.
      - zelphirkalt 2y ago
        Becomes a question of how much you are willing to stand for. If being pro genocide is acceptable, then I guess staying is OK.
- didntcheck 2y ago
  This is why I can never take their current alleged passion for privacy fully seriously. Sure, I do appreciate some of the features they're coming out with, but I don't trust them to not eventually drop this marketing angle and pull rugs when it's no longer profitable
  - seec 2y ago
    Considering that it is run by a duplicitous Uncle Scrooge it is exactly what is going to happen. If the App Store golden goose get taken over (by DMA and similar legislation) they will lose a significant share of their revenue growth and it seems that this is simply unacceptable to current Apple leadership. The iPhone is losing its luster and competitors are coming with extremely competitive devices at much cheaper prices, even at the most premium end there is not much of an edge, the product has been perfectly commoditized. Pursuing luxury will inexorably make it a smaller and smaller share of the market every year passing. The iPad and the Mac are pretty small share of the revenue too, by pursuing luxury Apple has put itself into the same corner, repeating previous mistake Steve Jobs warned against in an interview (while working at Next). I don't see how they reconciliate their need for growth without fucking over their users at some point on the privacy bullshit. It's not as if they don't have a long history of doing that. There is one thing that is clear about Apple as a company: it loves money much more than its customers; in a way that makes regular companies look like boy scouts...
- machomaster 2y ago
  Google had zero courage and went fully under Putin and helped him to silence Russian opposition (Navalny) during the crucial pre-election time. Telegram did the same, btw.

mdhb 2y ago

Apple have repeatedly thrown their customers under the bus especially in China. At least Google had the courage to withdraw entirely.

thenthenthen 2y ago
Google never left China, they literally just moved to a new building on the other side of the road (in Zhongguancun, Beijing). They even “left a couple of boxes there”[1]. [1] Blum, Andrew, Tubes: A Journey to the Center of the Internet. New York, Ecco, 2012. https://archive.org/details/unset0000unse_p9b6 https://archive.org/details/unset0000unse_p9b6
- ApolloFortyNine 2y ago
  You can't even install the play store in China... Google hasn't been accessible there since in 15 years. You can buy an iPhone there today, and Apple has agreements with China to hand over user data and has done so in the past.
  - thenthenthen 2y ago
    Apple has a datacenter in Gui’an New Area, Guiyang, Guizhou, China (run by GCBD[1]). [1] https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/gcbd-terms.html https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/gcbd...
  - jhugo 2y ago
    > You can't even install the play store in China... Google hasn't been accessible there since in 15 years. You and GP are both correct. Most Google services are not accessible in China but Google the company still has a significant presence there.
- SR2Z 2y ago
  Google in China is virtually a different company than the US - laptops and desktops issued by Google in the US will automatically erase their disks if they detect they're in one of a few countries (Iran, China, Russia, NK, etc.) and there is an entirely separate flow for workers there since GMail and the corporate intranet are inaccessible.
m3kw9 2y ago
Apple leaving china does essentially nothing, the people there won’t get end to end encryption either way
sitkack 2y ago
Google employees had the courage to force Google to pretend to withdraw.
- zelphirkalt 2y ago
  But rarely do they have the courage to quit their jobs or go on strike, when Google does the next anti privacy thing.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - immibis 2y ago
    They tried it against Google's support of Israel and were immediately fired.
    - zelphirkalt 2y ago
      Becomes a question of how much you are willing to stand for. If being pro genocide is acceptable, then I guess staying is OK.
didntcheck 2y ago
This is why I can never take their current alleged passion for privacy fully seriously. Sure, I do appreciate some of the features they're coming out with, but I don't trust them to not eventually drop this marketing angle and pull rugs when it's no longer profitable
- seec 2y ago
  Considering that it is run by a duplicitous Uncle Scrooge it is exactly what is going to happen. If the App Store golden goose get taken over (by DMA and similar legislation) they will lose a significant share of their revenue growth and it seems that this is simply unacceptable to current Apple leadership. The iPhone is losing its luster and competitors are coming with extremely competitive devices at much cheaper prices, even at the most premium end there is not much of an edge, the product has been perfectly commoditized. Pursuing luxury will inexorably make it a smaller and smaller share of the market every year passing. The iPad and the Mac are pretty small share of the revenue too, by pursuing luxury Apple has put itself into the same corner, repeating previous mistake Steve Jobs warned against in an interview (while working at Next). I don't see how they reconciliate their need for growth without fucking over their users at some point on the privacy bullshit. It's not as if they don't have a long history of doing that. There is one thing that is clear about Apple as a company: it loves money much more than its customers; in a way that makes regular companies look like boy scouts...
machomaster 2y ago
Google had zero courage and went fully under Putin and helped him to silence Russian opposition (Navalny) during the crucial pre-election time. Telegram did the same, btw.