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This still doesn’t address the duck curve aspect, or overnight usage. It is fundamentally impossible to use PV to directly power your wonderful super efficient

by szvsw 2y ago

This still doesn’t address the duck curve aspect, or overnight usage. It is fundamentally impossible to use PV to directly power your wonderful super efficient heat pump to warm your home at night. You will still need batteries!

tw04 2y ago
And? You can buy a rack of lifepo4 batteries for less than $10k and it will be enough power to supply you running your A/C or heat the entire night.
- szvsw 2y ago
  Well, my original point at the top of this thread was specifically about how battery mfg/infra/costs/dispatch (especially at grid scale) and so on seem like the limiting factors/primary challenges still being worked on, not PV efficiency, so I think we are agreeing?
mambru 2y ago
There are heat accumulators.
- szvsw 2y ago
  Yep, those are just forms of batteries though so I think my point stands? There is lots of cool stuff you can do with PV+TES without even needing true thermal batteries, just using smart electric hot water heaters and dispatch, and even cooler things if you set up a peer-to-peer network of them! But again, that just goes to the point that other challenges have overtaken solar efficiency in urgency (which is a great thing to reflect on!)
Dylan16807 2y ago
Excess panels completely address the duck curve.
- szvsw 2y ago
  How? There’s a significant portion of the world/year where duck curve evening peak is after sunset and PV alone is never feasible and so batteries/wind/etc are necessary.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    I was considering "duck curve" and "overnight" to be separate categories. Were you not? Then I will rephrase to say that excess panels solve the part of the duck curve that does not overlap "overnight", so the problem is reduced to just "overnight".
    - szvsw 2y ago
      I do consider them separate, but the duck curve peaking is in the 6-8pm range typically before falling off to overnight baseload. 6-8pm is frequently after sunset. That’s what excess panels does not help, and is still separate from what is typically meant by “overnight” in my experience.
jes5199 2y ago
grid-scale batteries have already almost entirely eliminated the duck curve in California, and the costs of batteries continue to fall
icehawk 2y ago
Is it supposed to? Says who?

by szvsw 2y ago

tw04 2y ago

And? You can buy a rack of lifepo4 batteries for less than $10k and it will be enough power to supply you running your A/C or heat the entire night.

szvsw 2y ago
Well, my original point at the top of this thread was specifically about how battery mfg/infra/costs/dispatch (especially at grid scale) and so on seem like the limiting factors/primary challenges still being worked on, not PV efficiency, so I think we are agreeing?

mambru 2y ago

There are heat accumulators.

szvsw 2y ago
Yep, those are just forms of batteries though so I think my point stands? There is lots of cool stuff you can do with PV+TES without even needing true thermal batteries, just using smart electric hot water heaters and dispatch, and even cooler things if you set up a peer-to-peer network of them! But again, that just goes to the point that other challenges have overtaken solar efficiency in urgency (which is a great thing to reflect on!)

Dylan16807 2y ago

Excess panels completely address the duck curve.

szvsw 2y ago
How? There’s a significant portion of the world/year where duck curve evening peak is after sunset and PV alone is never feasible and so batteries/wind/etc are necessary.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  I was considering "duck curve" and "overnight" to be separate categories. Were you not? Then I will rephrase to say that excess panels solve the part of the duck curve that does not overlap "overnight", so the problem is reduced to just "overnight".
  - szvsw 2y ago
    I do consider them separate, but the duck curve peaking is in the 6-8pm range typically before falling off to overnight baseload. 6-8pm is frequently after sunset. That’s what excess panels does not help, and is still separate from what is typically meant by “overnight” in my experience.

jes5199 2y ago

grid-scale batteries have already almost entirely eliminated the duck curve in California, and the costs of batteries continue to fall

icehawk 2y ago

Is it supposed to? Says who?