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> The European Commission has determined that the iPhone maker is not complying with obligations to allow app developers to “steer” users to offers outside its

> The European Commission has determined that the iPhone maker is not complying with obligations to allow app developers to “steer” users to offers outside its App Store without imposing fees on them, according to three people with close knowledge of its investigation. I think that's a fair assessment based on the bizarre fees and hoops Apple has created under the guise of malicious compliance. There was even a brief moment where they blocked PWAs.

talldayo 2y ago
The Core Technology Fee was such a mistake, on Apple's part. Presumably it's their attempt at creating a defensible position ("well it's not the App Store but our core technology now"), but it also relocates a relatively volatile discussion from just the App Store to the iPhone itself. Apple knows what they're doing, they even retroactively added a Free software carveout to the policy in an attempt to offer an olive branch. The longer they spend trying to reinvent the same racket though, the more obvious their market damages become. And if the EU lets them get away with this reconfiguration, they'll let them get away with anything. The US suit ought to bring the hammer down, and threaten Apple with a breakup if they can't find a way to compete with third-parties naturally.
- chucke1992 2y ago
  Apple's hope is probably EU backepdaling or something but as Microsoft vs USA demonstrated, the government machine can be very slow but if it wants to - it will get the things done.
  - Retric 2y ago
    I think Microsoft vs USA demonstrates that stalling until a new administration shows up can be a valid tactic. It’s not guaranteed to work, but even if the odds are say 20% that’s far from nothing when you’re talking 100’s of billions of dollars.
    - chucke1992 2y ago
      It allowed them to avoid breakup but it still immensely affected Microsoft creating the dead decade or whatever it was called. Nobody expects that regulators will force Apple to breakup (Google is in bigger danger there).
- _aavaa_ 2y ago
  The Core Technology Fee is so absurd. I couldn't help but notice that the Mac is conspicuously missing it. Perhaps the farce would have been too obvious to non-tech people if they had tried to impose it on the Mac.
- aaomidi 2y ago
  Next time someone says lawyers don’t do stupid shit. This was lawyers doing stupid shit. FAFO.
- MBCook 2y ago
  Apple deserves money for every app on the phone (per Apple). Therefore the CTF makes perfect sense to them. I think they’re really annoyed by the Facebooks and Spotify’s of the world that make a fortune from the iPhone and pay nothing. “We have to open up” + “this is our chance to claw some back” = here’s the core technology fee.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > I think they’re really annoyed by the Facebooks and Spotify’s of the world that make a fortune from the iPhone and pay nothing. And not the Mac? It seems pretty obvious that it's not even an ideological thing, Apple is fine with some users not being forced through their ecosystem. They know that the iPhone specifically is most lucrative and are trying to arbitrarily distinguish it from their other products. It frankly doesn't matter how Apple feels about it at the end of the day, there's only compliance and noncompliance.
    - MBCook 2y ago
      I think they see them as different for historical reasons. The Mac is a computer and the iPhone is an appliance, so the differences makes sense to them. Also they tried to retrofit the App Store onto the Mac, it’s a joke compared to what they seem to have thought it would become. Yeah there is software, and I use it, but for many reasons it’s far less successful than it should have been if done well. > It frankly doesn't matter how Apple feels about it at the end of the day, there's only compliance and noncompliance. I agree. Some people see the CTF and can’t imagine why they’d create it. I’m just trying to explain what I (and others) have suggested was the reason. It makes sense and is just given their seeming point of view. Problem for them is no one else, even huge fans, seems to agree.
  - fennecbutt 2y ago
    Wait so you really think that Ford should be viciously angry at somebody if they buy a non ford branded air freshener for their car? Because the air freshener company "makes a fortune from the car and pay nothing".
ocdtrekkie 2y ago
The PWA block has more nuance than that. PWAs are locked to Safari's engine and Apple interpreted that as potentially against the law. And part of the problem is that some competing web engines allow extremely dangerous APIs in their web platform which Mozilla has considered harmful. Which isn't to say that Apple isn't playing malicious compliance hard, the entire CTF thing is ridiculous and demonstrates how desperately they do abuse the claim of security when it is actually all about profit... but the PWA thing isn't really part of that.
- dangus 2y ago
  So why are PWAs and alternative browser engines okay on macOS but not iOS? These security excuses are bullshit and that does include PWAs.
  - ocdtrekkie 2y ago
    I mean, I think those alternative browser engines are dangerous on other OSes too. Both at work at home I enforce policy on computers which disables a lot of harmful web APIs. It is much harder to protect mobile devices with policy.
- fallingsquirrel 2y ago
  Those so-called "dangerous" APIs are available in a normal browser visiting a normal website too. The APIs don't somehow become more dangerous if you let people put an icon for your site on the home screen.
  - ocdtrekkie 2y ago
    This isn't true on iOS. Because allowing arbitrary websites access to system hardware is pretty dangerous and stupid, Safari gates some of the newer APIs they do support behind PWA installation.
    - TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
      So basically Apple screw up writing their iOS kernel and Safari?
1oooqooq 2y ago
and yet, Microsoft still get purchased without licitation at the comission and all other branches. because of the same reason. lol

talldayo 2y ago

The Core Technology Fee was such a mistake, on Apple's part. Presumably it's their attempt at creating a defensible position ("well it's not the App Store but our core technology now"), but it also relocates a relatively volatile discussion from just the App Store to the iPhone itself. Apple knows what they're doing, they even retroactively added a Free software carveout to the policy in an attempt to offer an olive branch. The longer they spend trying to reinvent the same racket though, the more obvious their market damages become. And if the EU lets them get away with this reconfiguration, they'll let them get away with anything. The US suit ought to bring the hammer down, and threaten Apple with a breakup if they can't find a way to compete with third-parties naturally.

chucke1992 2y ago
Apple's hope is probably EU backepdaling or something but as Microsoft vs USA demonstrated, the government machine can be very slow but if it wants to - it will get the things done.
- Retric 2y ago
  I think Microsoft vs USA demonstrates that stalling until a new administration shows up can be a valid tactic. It’s not guaranteed to work, but even if the odds are say 20% that’s far from nothing when you’re talking 100’s of billions of dollars.
  - chucke1992 2y ago
    It allowed them to avoid breakup but it still immensely affected Microsoft creating the dead decade or whatever it was called. Nobody expects that regulators will force Apple to breakup (Google is in bigger danger there).
_aavaa_ 2y ago
The Core Technology Fee is so absurd. I couldn't help but notice that the Mac is conspicuously missing it. Perhaps the farce would have been too obvious to non-tech people if they had tried to impose it on the Mac.
aaomidi 2y ago
Next time someone says lawyers don’t do stupid shit. This was lawyers doing stupid shit. FAFO.
MBCook 2y ago
Apple deserves money for every app on the phone (per Apple). Therefore the CTF makes perfect sense to them. I think they’re really annoyed by the Facebooks and Spotify’s of the world that make a fortune from the iPhone and pay nothing. “We have to open up” + “this is our chance to claw some back” = here’s the core technology fee.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > I think they’re really annoyed by the Facebooks and Spotify’s of the world that make a fortune from the iPhone and pay nothing. And not the Mac? It seems pretty obvious that it's not even an ideological thing, Apple is fine with some users not being forced through their ecosystem. They know that the iPhone specifically is most lucrative and are trying to arbitrarily distinguish it from their other products. It frankly doesn't matter how Apple feels about it at the end of the day, there's only compliance and noncompliance.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    I think they see them as different for historical reasons. The Mac is a computer and the iPhone is an appliance, so the differences makes sense to them. Also they tried to retrofit the App Store onto the Mac, it’s a joke compared to what they seem to have thought it would become. Yeah there is software, and I use it, but for many reasons it’s far less successful than it should have been if done well. > It frankly doesn't matter how Apple feels about it at the end of the day, there's only compliance and noncompliance. I agree. Some people see the CTF and can’t imagine why they’d create it. I’m just trying to explain what I (and others) have suggested was the reason. It makes sense and is just given their seeming point of view. Problem for them is no one else, even huge fans, seems to agree.
- fennecbutt 2y ago
  Wait so you really think that Ford should be viciously angry at somebody if they buy a non ford branded air freshener for their car? Because the air freshener company "makes a fortune from the car and pay nothing".

ocdtrekkie 2y ago

The PWA block has more nuance than that. PWAs are locked to Safari's engine and Apple interpreted that as potentially against the law. And part of the problem is that some competing web engines allow extremely dangerous APIs in their web platform which Mozilla has considered harmful. Which isn't to say that Apple isn't playing malicious compliance hard, the entire CTF thing is ridiculous and demonstrates how desperately they do abuse the claim of security when it is actually all about profit... but the PWA thing isn't really part of that.

dangus 2y ago
So why are PWAs and alternative browser engines okay on macOS but not iOS? These security excuses are bullshit and that does include PWAs.
- ocdtrekkie 2y ago
  I mean, I think those alternative browser engines are dangerous on other OSes too. Both at work at home I enforce policy on computers which disables a lot of harmful web APIs. It is much harder to protect mobile devices with policy.
fallingsquirrel 2y ago
Those so-called "dangerous" APIs are available in a normal browser visiting a normal website too. The APIs don't somehow become more dangerous if you let people put an icon for your site on the home screen.
- ocdtrekkie 2y ago
  This isn't true on iOS. Because allowing arbitrary websites access to system hardware is pretty dangerous and stupid, Safari gates some of the newer APIs they do support behind PWA installation.
  - TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
    So basically Apple screw up writing their iOS kernel and Safari?

1oooqooq 2y ago

and yet, Microsoft still get purchased without licitation at the comission and all other branches. because of the same reason. lol