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I don’t follow. By pretty much every measure, Biden appears to be the establishment candidate. Who is out to get him?

consumer451 2y ago
> By pretty much every measure, Biden appears to be the establishment candidate. Who is out to get him? Certainly the fossil fuel establishment, one of the strongest forces on the planet, would always prefer a GOP candidate over a Dem. Other parties out to get Biden are likely corporate lobbying groups as the Dems have been showing some backbone with regard to regulations in recent times.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > the fossil fuel establishment, one of the strongest forces on the planet, would always prefer a GOP candidate over a Dem Then Riyadh would prefer Biden. American fossil fuel producers are their competition. (Not claiming knowledge about MBS’s preferences. Just underlining this isn’t as simple as implied.)
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Since we repealed the law forbidding oil export, it's a global market. Riyadh and Houston have always been on great terms as they have common goals and common enemies. The Dems propose moving to a green economy, this is terrible for all fossil fuel extractors.
  - mrighele 2y ago
    Riyadh would prefer the one willing to sell secrets for a couple of million dollars.
- coldtea 2y ago
  >Certainly the fossil fuel establishment, one of the strongest forces on the planet, would always prefer a GOP candidate over a Dem. Is this not common knowledge? Yes, since Dems always worked just fine for them too.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Really? "Both sides." > You all are wealthy enough, he (Trump) said, that you should raise $1 billion to return me to the White House. At the dinner, he vowed to immediately reverse dozens of President Biden’s environmental rules and policies and stop new ones from being enacted https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/09/trump-oil-industry-campaign-money/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/09/trump-oil...
    - coldtea 2y ago
      Consider the source. And the same deals Dems have been making for decades too.
      - consumer451 2y ago
        > Consider the source. The source is a paper run by an ex-News Corp employee. > And the same deals Dems have been making for decades too. This is extremely hand-wavy. To get down to specifics, look at the history of the opening of drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge. GOP opens it, Dems close it. Look at EPA fuel efficiency regulations, which party increases them? I understand being frustrated by how corporate-friendly both parties in the USA are, but to just throw your hands up in the air while stating "both sides" is ignoring reality and surrendering your agency.
        lmm 2y ago
        > The source is a paper run by an ex-News Corp employee. So someone who's used to being owned by a billionaire and pushing their agenda, and good at it, and presumably doing the same thing now under another billionaire? What point were you trying to make?
        consumer451 2y ago
        My point, while admittedly weak, was that the WP is not as institutionally anti-Trump as is often bandied about. Though I now realize that was a useless thing to raise in this context.
b112 2y ago
As a Canuck, I don't get why the US us trying to elect candidates, older than a pope typically is. Both candidates are ancient. Some want different candidates. On both sides.
- bdcravens 2y ago
  For the most part, the mechanics of the current bipartisan system. In the current election system of primaries (in place since 1972), an incumbent has never lost. They haven't even lost a state in 44 years. So basically the incumbent has a defacto first right of refusal when it comes to their party's nomination. The other party has been shaped by a political movement with a lot of power and momentum, and the founder of that movement more or less has the same defacto first right of refusal.
  - adolph 2y ago
    I think the parent comment is commenting on presidential candidate ages, which has had two consecutive new records in age and incumbency didn't seem to factor. Prompt: list of us presidents and their year of birth and age when elected You will see a list with few year of birth regressions and most ages in 50-60. Two years of 70+ is an outlier.
    - bdcravens 2y ago
      Incumbency is why younger options aren't being considered. It's more of an "in spite of" rather than "because of" situation.
- mejutoco 2y ago
  If we are going to think bigger I suggest more than 2 viable parties.
  - jonathankoren 2y ago
    You’re going to have to eliminate first past the post for that to work. Both parties are essentially coallitions. Christian nationalists and big business, and their apologists on one side, and everyone else on the other.

> By pretty much every measure, Biden appears to be the establishment candidate. Who is out to get him? Certainly the fossil fuel establishment, one of the strongest forces on the planet, would always prefer a GOP candidate over a Dem. Other parties out to get Biden are likely corporate lobbying groups as the Dems have been showing some backbone with regard to regulations in recent times.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> the fossil fuel establishment, one of the strongest forces on the planet, would always prefer a GOP candidate over a Dem Then Riyadh would prefer Biden. American fossil fuel producers are their competition. (Not claiming knowledge about MBS’s preferences. Just underlining this isn’t as simple as implied.)
- consumer451 2y ago
  Since we repealed the law forbidding oil export, it's a global market. Riyadh and Houston have always been on great terms as they have common goals and common enemies. The Dems propose moving to a green economy, this is terrible for all fossil fuel extractors.
- mrighele 2y ago
  Riyadh would prefer the one willing to sell secrets for a couple of million dollars.
coldtea 2y ago
>Certainly the fossil fuel establishment, one of the strongest forces on the planet, would always prefer a GOP candidate over a Dem. Is this not common knowledge? Yes, since Dems always worked just fine for them too.
- consumer451 2y ago
  Really? "Both sides." > You all are wealthy enough, he (Trump) said, that you should raise $1 billion to return me to the White House. At the dinner, he vowed to immediately reverse dozens of President Biden’s environmental rules and policies and stop new ones from being enacted https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/09/trump-oil-industry-campaign-money/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/09/trump-oil...
  - coldtea 2y ago
    Consider the source. And the same deals Dems have been making for decades too.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      > Consider the source. The source is a paper run by an ex-News Corp employee. > And the same deals Dems have been making for decades too. This is extremely hand-wavy. To get down to specifics, look at the history of the opening of drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge. GOP opens it, Dems close it. Look at EPA fuel efficiency regulations, which party increases them? I understand being frustrated by how corporate-friendly both parties in the USA are, but to just throw your hands up in the air while stating "both sides" is ignoring reality and surrendering your agency.
      - lmm 2y ago
        > The source is a paper run by an ex-News Corp employee. So someone who's used to being owned by a billionaire and pushing their agenda, and good at it, and presumably doing the same thing now under another billionaire? What point were you trying to make?
        consumer451 2y ago
        My point, while admittedly weak, was that the WP is not as institutionally anti-Trump as is often bandied about. Though I now realize that was a useless thing to raise in this context.

b112 2y ago

As a Canuck, I don't get why the US us trying to elect candidates, older than a pope typically is. Both candidates are ancient. Some want different candidates. On both sides.

bdcravens 2y ago
For the most part, the mechanics of the current bipartisan system. In the current election system of primaries (in place since 1972), an incumbent has never lost. They haven't even lost a state in 44 years. So basically the incumbent has a defacto first right of refusal when it comes to their party's nomination. The other party has been shaped by a political movement with a lot of power and momentum, and the founder of that movement more or less has the same defacto first right of refusal.
- adolph 2y ago
  I think the parent comment is commenting on presidential candidate ages, which has had two consecutive new records in age and incumbency didn't seem to factor. Prompt: list of us presidents and their year of birth and age when elected You will see a list with few year of birth regressions and most ages in 50-60. Two years of 70+ is an outlier.
  - bdcravens 2y ago
    Incumbency is why younger options aren't being considered. It's more of an "in spite of" rather than "because of" situation.
mejutoco 2y ago
If we are going to think bigger I suggest more than 2 viable parties.
- jonathankoren 2y ago
  You’re going to have to eliminate first past the post for that to work. Both parties are essentially coallitions. Christian nationalists and big business, and their apologists on one side, and everyone else on the other.