8 ms·

Spectrum of Covid-19: From Asymptomatic Organ Damage to Long Covid Syndrome

57 points by ck45 2y ago

iamthirsty 2y ago
> COVID-19 can cause brain damage including loss of brain tissue, small blood vessels, and merged brain cells. In some patients, perhaps many, there is also damage to the immune system. Now that, I did not know. Crazy how much damage COVID can actually do.
- vundercind 2y ago
  I suspect lots of viruses do tons of long-term damage in at least some cases, but it’s just less-studied or comes up less in the media. Flu, colds, hand and foot, all that stuff. Though even allowing that, it’s still possible Covid-19 is worse than most viruses, as far as that sort of damage goes.
  - jerlam 2y ago
    Even if Covid-19 was similar in terms of causing damage, its high transmissibility and mutability means that it's worse on a population level.
    - nostrebored 2y ago
      That's not true, as you have no idea what the distribution of complications is for almost any illness... you need to understand the complication distribution and the transmissibility in order to judge impact.
      - graeme 2y ago
        They were speaking hypothetically. Even if denotes a scenario where the impact per infection is equal. In such a scenario Covid has worse impact due to the higher transmissibility. People seem to get it every 6-12 months. Flu infection is much less frequent.
        taeric 2y ago
        I think the flu data is somewhat difficult here. Most people do not refer to having had it if they didn't get sick. Yet, studies are showing from a third to a half of people with the flu will be asymptomatic. Which, is kind of terrifying to me.
        graeme 2y ago
        True, but Covid also has plenty of asymptomatic or low symptomatic cases. I’ve known a few who tested positive while reporting no symptoms. A Chinese field study estimated people got the flu once every five years. It is simply much less contagious. Flu collapsed globally when countries put in place Covid precautions. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-31698038.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/health-31698038.amp
        taeric 2y ago
        Latest study I saw on flu was about 10% of people get it each season. And there was another study showing that families with toddlers are basically always exposed. COVID does follow the same general rates of corona viruses, from what I remember. Which is to say it is higher than flu. So, I am not trying to downplay that.
        graeme 2y ago
        If 10% get it then you'd get it roughly once in every ten years.
        taeric 2y ago
        I'm very hesitant to extrapolate from those numbers. Often times they will use that as "per exposure" number. Such that it will often be far higher than you'd take from a naive reading. Sadly, I don't remember where I saw that number, so can't check up on it. That said, feels very in the weeds here. My stance is largely to have as much patience with folks as can be. I don't personally go through as much effort as many do, but I see no reason for that to be something to get upset over, either.
  - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      EBV is liked to many other diseases. To quote wikipedia: "EBV has also been implicated in several other diseases, including Burkitt's lymphoma,[58] hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis,[59] Hodgkin's lymphoma,[60] stomach cancer,[12][61] nasopharyngeal carcinoma,[62] multiple sclerosis,[15][16][63][17] and lymphomatoid granulomatosis.[64]" Burkitt's lymphoma is an oddball cancer in which growth is so fast treatment should begin almost immediately.
      - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
        Yes, and we should also expect a heightened rate of a lot of these oddball diseases after Covid. Frankly, I’m expecting a huge rise in the rate of Early onset Alzheimer’s.
    - graeme 2y ago
      Covid actually reactivates EBV. Different etiologies can have the same symptoms and it is silly to suggest there is no difference between diseases. They’ve found tests which can distinguish long Covid. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10292739/#:~:text=Individuals%20with%20underlying%20medical%20conditions,may%20contribute%20to%20associated%20symptoms https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10292739/#:~:te....
      - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
        Covid doesn’t reactivate the Epstein-Barr virus. What it does is it weaken the immune system further by depleting ATP and GTP. That weakening of the immune system stops our immune system from suppressing EBV. Because exercise alone can weaken the immune system enough to Reactivate viruses.
        r2_pilot 2y ago
        Thankfully exercise can also help strengthen the immune system. (source: I've been exercising a lot lately after years of feeling like I had chronic fatigue - more accurately it seems to have been sleep apnea - and have had 3 diagnosed cases of mono in my life)
  - Animats 2y ago
    The big 2024 National Academies consensus paper says that they see similar long term damage from chronic fatigue syndrome and several rare diseases, but don't mention this as an outcome from more common viruses.[1] (Skip ahead to the summary). The big open question is cumulative damage from multiple COVID-19 infections.[2] There are now many people who have had COVID more than once. (US: 60% at least once, maybe 11% more than once.) A few people have had it many more times, but that seems to involve some pre-existing condition. A VA study of older veterans indicates that cumulative damage is real in older adults. As time goes on, there will be more previously healthy people who have had COVID multiple times, and this question will be answered the hard way. [1] https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/27756/chapter/1 https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/27756/chapter/1 [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/well/live/covid-reinfection.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/well/live/covid-reinfecti...
    - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - iamthirsty 2y ago
        > If you cannot replenish this ATP and GTP you’ll be weaker the next time you get an infection and be sicker in general. This is wrong. You're all over this thread spreading incorrect information.
        Spod_Gaju 2y ago
        are you calling the prestigious Scientific journal Nature wrong? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-67879-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-67879-6 Energy depletion indicated by the reduced levels of ATP and GTP has been described in several studies on infectious diseases and endotoxemia16,17,18. Reduced ATP levels in blood and various organs, including the liver, have been previously associated with influenza virus infection in a mouse model16. Decreased GTP levels have been shown in the lung tissues of rabbits treated with bacterial endotoxin lipopolysaccharide17. Increases in the serum levels of hypoxanthine and inosine have also been reported in patients with primary dengue virus infection at the febrile stage, suggesting an imbalance of ATP and/or GTP synthesis and degradation during the acute stage of the dengue fever18. These studies and ours indicate that regulatory energy depletion is a common symptom of infectious diseases.
  - rapjr9 2y ago
    It's been known for a long time and is called post-viral syndrome and post-acute infection syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute_infection_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute_infection_syndrome https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326619 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326619 Measles for example wipes out the immune systems memory of everything it has learned to defend against, leaving people newly vulnerable to everything they were immune to before: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-immune-amnesia https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-... There's a good chance that a lot of the "mystery diseases" are due to longer lasting damage from viruses, to organs and to the immune system, including ordinary colds and flu. Colds and flu are probably spread via the air also, yet this also remains unstudied (otherwise known as "there is no evidence") and hospitals don't take precautions for most patients, probably because the cost would be large to treat the air in all hospital rooms. It would mean ending practices like putting two patients in each room as well. I think that in the past a lot was overlooked as being too complex to deal with ("we can't cure flu, it mutates too fast") or too costly (but so was mapping DNA), or both (drugs personalized to each persons DNA) so a certain amount of death and disability was allowed and drugs and surgery statistically only work for some people (see "number needed to treat", NNT). Now we have better tools and understanding and these things should change.
    - DANmode 2y ago
      > because the cost would be large to treat the air in all hospital rooms. It would not. Compared to the rest of hospital maintenance costs, UV-C hydrogen peroxide generators for the HVAC system are cheap, and effective.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- MrVandemar 2y ago
  I've heard Covid referred to in some quarters as "aerosolised HIV", which should be at least taken seriously, even if it is (possibly) overly alarmist. It's certainly easier to catch than HIV. While it's useful to have a distinct name for the virus/disease, it really should have been called what it is: It's SARS-CoV-2 not Covid. SARS: severe acute respiratory syndrome. I wear a n95 mask at work (medical practice) and I consistently wear one in shops, especially shopping centres. It's kept me safe so far.
  - asynchronous 2y ago
    You’re saying you haven’t caught covid yet? That’s quite the claim. I’d suggest you just never had symptoms when you contracted.
    - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - MrVandemar 2y ago
      Covid 0 right here. I work in a medical practice staffed by sane people so we had excellent infection control and procedures from even before the pandemic, and just doubled down on it. I live on a farm in the middle of nowhere. I'm an introvert and seldom socialise. My SO is susceptible to respiratory infections which motivates me to keep as safe as possible. I haven't even had a cold.
  - floren 2y ago
    > I've heard Covid referred to in some quarters as "aerosolised HIV", which should be at least taken seriously, even if it is (possibly) overly alarmist. I've heard it too and it's definitely one of the more deranged takes I've run into.
    - MrVandemar 2y ago
      To be clear, I do find it alarmist, but I take it seriously in the sense that it's definitely clear that Sars-cov-2 isn't "just a cold", and it's perhaps promotes a more healthy and cautious attitude to the virus in the face of the dangerous community apathy and dismissal, even in medical spaces.
- Spod_Gaju 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - iamthirsty 2y ago
    I had COVID five times over the past four years. Last three times barely any symptoms. > It’s kind Wrong to say that Covid causes these things. Because if Covid alone caused these issues then everyone would have these issues after Infected. However, this is not sound logic. As stated in the study, it causes these different issues in some percentage of cases, not all.
6d6b73 2y ago
[flagged]
- saalweachter 2y ago
  https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20240221/vaccinated-people-lower-risk-long-covid-study https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2024022...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- bena 2y ago
  Considering that long Covid was a thing even before the vaccines were released, I'd say that if any cases were "mRNA vaccine damage", the number would be vanishingly small. Because "vaccine damage" isn't really a thing. At least not on the level the fucking idiots who believe in it would have you think. I mean, sure, allergies exist. And nothing is 100% safe, not even water nor the air you breathe. But vaccines are likely safer than a lot of things we do every day.
  - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
    It’s possible Covid and the vaccine could cause lung Covid. And it could be that getting the vaccine after you had Covid increases the chances of having long Covid. The next time you get infection. But we don’t know because no one studying in this. And vaccine damage is a thing. They’re currently paying people for vaccine damage in the UK. A few of them got through already. One guy Had to get his leg amputated. You shouldn’t minimize the risks of the vaccines because there are risks. I’m not an anti-vaxxer, I just wanna know the risks of any drug I’m taking.
    - luuurker 2y ago
      3 quick points: - It's also possible that the covid vaccines don't contribute to long covid. - Some people have problems with vaccines, but don't push it. People are not losing their legs left and right. - It's good to understand the risks of taking drugs (while keeping in mind our own limitations on the subject), but it's also important to understand the risks of not taking said drugs.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Hrothgar15 2y ago
I do not have long term damage from my COVID infection from February 2023.
- bena 2y ago
  Yes, and? The majority of smokers don't get lung cancer either. Just because it thankfully didn't happen to you, doesn't mean it isn't something that happens to people regularly.
  - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
    It’s important because in these distinctions, we find what causes disease. For example schizophrenics are less likely to get lung cancer, even though they smoke much more than the average population. Smoking does not cause lung cancer. Smoking raises the risk of lung cancer. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951592/#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20tobacco%20smoking%20rates,et%20al.%2C%202007 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951592/#:~:tex...).
    - bena 2y ago
      Smoking is a carcinogen. As is alcohol and processed meats and the sun and a whole host of other things. The point is that simply because the poster didn't get long Covid, that doesn't mean it's not something that people get. And it doesn't mean it's not attributable to Covid. While these people could be more susceptible to long Covid because they also have some other quality, trying to downplay either Covid or long Covid because of your individual experience is always a bad move. And the biggest irony is that people will do that to downplay Covid while pushing "vaccines are dangerous" ideology despite far, far more people having taken any vaccine than having gotten Covid. And those people experiencing far far fewer complications from that vaccine.
      - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
        No one saying people don’t have long Covid. I’m not saying people don’t have long Covid. I took care of a good friend who had long Covid for six months. I’m just saying there’s something in each person that determines whether or not Covid can cause long Covid. If you don’t make that distinction, all you do is make everyone think they’re going to get long Covid. And by not looking at the distinctions You never find out why people get Covid.
halfjoking 2y ago
[flagged]
- BenFranklin100 2y ago
  COVID is AIDS, drinking herbal tea will cure it, and the vaccines caused immunological damage. We have a winner. Edit: on second glance, you must be just taking the piss. Bravo.
- luuurker 2y ago
  In case this is not trolling, the brain damage may have been a bit more serious than you think. Not sure if tea can cure it. :P
  - fallinditch 2y ago
    It is incorrect to assume that a medicinal tea cannot have anti-viral or other healing properties.
    - luuurker 2y ago
      I'm fine with it as long there's data to backup the claim. What we shouldn't do is claim that a certain tea is able to cure something like "long covid" when 1) it ranges from being tired to brain damage and 2) is not backed up by anything. And I'd say the same if it was some random drug being recommended.
- fallinditch 2y ago
  Now that some time has passed we can look at the anti-vax debate with less polarization and more nuance. It has been an eye-opening experience for me to attempt some objectivity here. At first I was a 'good citizen', took the vaccine doses, and I found it hard to appreciate the perspectives of the anti vaxers: they seemed hysterical, and so much conspiracy theory, with dodgy links to the far right. But some people did die from vaccine doses. Many countries withdrew the AstraZeneca vaccine due to safety and efficacy concerns. My brother had one dose of this and believes it almost killed him with blood clots in his brain. I myself have had effects in my heart (I was on Moderna vax). Then there are the concerns about government and big pharma disinformation, and the extraordinary amounts of profit being made. Formerly I would have dismissed the parent comment but now I'm open minded. My beliefs now have shifted somewhat to be undecided, certainly a lot more sceptical about the vaccines. In such a morass of disinformation we have to work out our own truths. For me, I believe on the balance of probability, and relating to my own experience, it's more likely that my heart issues were caused by COVID rather than the vaccine. But I also decided to not get the booster jabs.

57 points by ck45 2y ago

> COVID-19 can cause brain damage including loss of brain tissue, small blood vessels, and merged brain cells. In some patients, perhaps many, there is also damage to the immune system. Now that, I did not know. Crazy how much damage COVID can actually do.

vundercind 2y ago
I suspect lots of viruses do tons of long-term damage in at least some cases, but it’s just less-studied or comes up less in the media. Flu, colds, hand and foot, all that stuff. Though even allowing that, it’s still possible Covid-19 is worse than most viruses, as far as that sort of damage goes.
- jerlam 2y ago
  Even if Covid-19 was similar in terms of causing damage, its high transmissibility and mutability means that it's worse on a population level.
  - nostrebored 2y ago
    That's not true, as you have no idea what the distribution of complications is for almost any illness... you need to understand the complication distribution and the transmissibility in order to judge impact.
    - graeme 2y ago
      They were speaking hypothetically. Even if denotes a scenario where the impact per infection is equal. In such a scenario Covid has worse impact due to the higher transmissibility. People seem to get it every 6-12 months. Flu infection is much less frequent.
      - taeric 2y ago
        I think the flu data is somewhat difficult here. Most people do not refer to having had it if they didn't get sick. Yet, studies are showing from a third to a half of people with the flu will be asymptomatic. Which, is kind of terrifying to me.
        graeme 2y ago
        True, but Covid also has plenty of asymptomatic or low symptomatic cases. I’ve known a few who tested positive while reporting no symptoms. A Chinese field study estimated people got the flu once every five years. It is simply much less contagious. Flu collapsed globally when countries put in place Covid precautions. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-31698038.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/health-31698038.amp
        taeric 2y ago
        Latest study I saw on flu was about 10% of people get it each season. And there was another study showing that families with toddlers are basically always exposed. COVID does follow the same general rates of corona viruses, from what I remember. Which is to say it is higher than flu. So, I am not trying to downplay that.
        graeme 2y ago
        If 10% get it then you'd get it roughly once in every ten years.
        taeric 2y ago
        I'm very hesitant to extrapolate from those numbers. Often times they will use that as "per exposure" number. Such that it will often be far higher than you'd take from a naive reading. Sadly, I don't remember where I saw that number, so can't check up on it. That said, feels very in the weeds here. My stance is largely to have as much patience with folks as can be. I don't personally go through as much effort as many do, but I see no reason for that to be something to get upset over, either.
- Spod_Gaju 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    EBV is liked to many other diseases. To quote wikipedia: "EBV has also been implicated in several other diseases, including Burkitt's lymphoma,[58] hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis,[59] Hodgkin's lymphoma,[60] stomach cancer,[12][61] nasopharyngeal carcinoma,[62] multiple sclerosis,[15][16][63][17] and lymphomatoid granulomatosis.[64]" Burkitt's lymphoma is an oddball cancer in which growth is so fast treatment should begin almost immediately.
    - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
      Yes, and we should also expect a heightened rate of a lot of these oddball diseases after Covid. Frankly, I’m expecting a huge rise in the rate of Early onset Alzheimer’s.
  - graeme 2y ago
    Covid actually reactivates EBV. Different etiologies can have the same symptoms and it is silly to suggest there is no difference between diseases. They’ve found tests which can distinguish long Covid. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10292739/#:~:text=Individuals%20with%20underlying%20medical%20conditions,may%20contribute%20to%20associated%20symptoms https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10292739/#:~:te....
    - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
      Covid doesn’t reactivate the Epstein-Barr virus. What it does is it weaken the immune system further by depleting ATP and GTP. That weakening of the immune system stops our immune system from suppressing EBV. Because exercise alone can weaken the immune system enough to Reactivate viruses.
      - r2_pilot 2y ago
        Thankfully exercise can also help strengthen the immune system. (source: I've been exercising a lot lately after years of feeling like I had chronic fatigue - more accurately it seems to have been sleep apnea - and have had 3 diagnosed cases of mono in my life)
- Animats 2y ago
  The big 2024 National Academies consensus paper says that they see similar long term damage from chronic fatigue syndrome and several rare diseases, but don't mention this as an outcome from more common viruses.[1] (Skip ahead to the summary). The big open question is cumulative damage from multiple COVID-19 infections.[2] There are now many people who have had COVID more than once. (US: 60% at least once, maybe 11% more than once.) A few people have had it many more times, but that seems to involve some pre-existing condition. A VA study of older veterans indicates that cumulative damage is real in older adults. As time goes on, there will be more previously healthy people who have had COVID multiple times, and this question will be answered the hard way. [1] https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/27756/chapter/1 https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/27756/chapter/1 [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/well/live/covid-reinfection.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/well/live/covid-reinfecti...
  - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - iamthirsty 2y ago
      > If you cannot replenish this ATP and GTP you’ll be weaker the next time you get an infection and be sicker in general. This is wrong. You're all over this thread spreading incorrect information.
      - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
        are you calling the prestigious Scientific journal Nature wrong? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-67879-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-67879-6 Energy depletion indicated by the reduced levels of ATP and GTP has been described in several studies on infectious diseases and endotoxemia16,17,18. Reduced ATP levels in blood and various organs, including the liver, have been previously associated with influenza virus infection in a mouse model16. Decreased GTP levels have been shown in the lung tissues of rabbits treated with bacterial endotoxin lipopolysaccharide17. Increases in the serum levels of hypoxanthine and inosine have also been reported in patients with primary dengue virus infection at the febrile stage, suggesting an imbalance of ATP and/or GTP synthesis and degradation during the acute stage of the dengue fever18. These studies and ours indicate that regulatory energy depletion is a common symptom of infectious diseases.
- rapjr9 2y ago
  It's been known for a long time and is called post-viral syndrome and post-acute infection syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute_infection_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute_infection_syndrome https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326619 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326619 Measles for example wipes out the immune systems memory of everything it has learned to defend against, leaving people newly vulnerable to everything they were immune to before: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-immune-amnesia https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211112-the-people-with-... There's a good chance that a lot of the "mystery diseases" are due to longer lasting damage from viruses, to organs and to the immune system, including ordinary colds and flu. Colds and flu are probably spread via the air also, yet this also remains unstudied (otherwise known as "there is no evidence") and hospitals don't take precautions for most patients, probably because the cost would be large to treat the air in all hospital rooms. It would mean ending practices like putting two patients in each room as well. I think that in the past a lot was overlooked as being too complex to deal with ("we can't cure flu, it mutates too fast") or too costly (but so was mapping DNA), or both (drugs personalized to each persons DNA) so a certain amount of death and disability was allowed and drugs and surgery statistically only work for some people (see "number needed to treat", NNT). Now we have better tools and understanding and these things should change.
  - DANmode 2y ago
    > because the cost would be large to treat the air in all hospital rooms. It would not. Compared to the rest of hospital maintenance costs, UV-C hydrogen peroxide generators for the HVAC system are cheap, and effective.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
MrVandemar 2y ago
I've heard Covid referred to in some quarters as "aerosolised HIV", which should be at least taken seriously, even if it is (possibly) overly alarmist. It's certainly easier to catch than HIV. While it's useful to have a distinct name for the virus/disease, it really should have been called what it is: It's SARS-CoV-2 not Covid. SARS: severe acute respiratory syndrome. I wear a n95 mask at work (medical practice) and I consistently wear one in shops, especially shopping centres. It's kept me safe so far.
- asynchronous 2y ago
  You’re saying you haven’t caught covid yet? That’s quite the claim. I’d suggest you just never had symptoms when you contracted.
  - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - MrVandemar 2y ago
    Covid 0 right here. I work in a medical practice staffed by sane people so we had excellent infection control and procedures from even before the pandemic, and just doubled down on it. I live on a farm in the middle of nowhere. I'm an introvert and seldom socialise. My SO is susceptible to respiratory infections which motivates me to keep as safe as possible. I haven't even had a cold.
- floren 2y ago
  > I've heard Covid referred to in some quarters as "aerosolised HIV", which should be at least taken seriously, even if it is (possibly) overly alarmist. I've heard it too and it's definitely one of the more deranged takes I've run into.
  - MrVandemar 2y ago
    To be clear, I do find it alarmist, but I take it seriously in the sense that it's definitely clear that Sars-cov-2 isn't "just a cold", and it's perhaps promotes a more healthy and cautious attitude to the virus in the face of the dangerous community apathy and dismissal, even in medical spaces.
Spod_Gaju 2y ago
[flagged]
- iamthirsty 2y ago
  I had COVID five times over the past four years. Last three times barely any symptoms. > It’s kind Wrong to say that Covid causes these things. Because if Covid alone caused these issues then everyone would have these issues after Infected. However, this is not sound logic. As stated in the study, it causes these different issues in some percentage of cases, not all.

6d6b73 2y ago

[flagged]

saalweachter 2y ago
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20240221/vaccinated-people-lower-risk-long-covid-study https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2024022...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
bena 2y ago
Considering that long Covid was a thing even before the vaccines were released, I'd say that if any cases were "mRNA vaccine damage", the number would be vanishingly small. Because "vaccine damage" isn't really a thing. At least not on the level the fucking idiots who believe in it would have you think. I mean, sure, allergies exist. And nothing is 100% safe, not even water nor the air you breathe. But vaccines are likely safer than a lot of things we do every day.
- Spod_Gaju 2y ago
  It’s possible Covid and the vaccine could cause lung Covid. And it could be that getting the vaccine after you had Covid increases the chances of having long Covid. The next time you get infection. But we don’t know because no one studying in this. And vaccine damage is a thing. They’re currently paying people for vaccine damage in the UK. A few of them got through already. One guy Had to get his leg amputated. You shouldn’t minimize the risks of the vaccines because there are risks. I’m not an anti-vaxxer, I just wanna know the risks of any drug I’m taking.
  - luuurker 2y ago
    3 quick points: - It's also possible that the covid vaccines don't contribute to long covid. - Some people have problems with vaccines, but don't push it. People are not losing their legs left and right. - It's good to understand the risks of taking drugs (while keeping in mind our own limitations on the subject), but it's also important to understand the risks of not taking said drugs.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Hrothgar15 2y ago

I do not have long term damage from my COVID infection from February 2023.

bena 2y ago
Yes, and? The majority of smokers don't get lung cancer either. Just because it thankfully didn't happen to you, doesn't mean it isn't something that happens to people regularly.
- Spod_Gaju 2y ago
  It’s important because in these distinctions, we find what causes disease. For example schizophrenics are less likely to get lung cancer, even though they smoke much more than the average population. Smoking does not cause lung cancer. Smoking raises the risk of lung cancer. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951592/#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20tobacco%20smoking%20rates,et%20al.%2C%202007 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951592/#:~:tex...).
  - bena 2y ago
    Smoking is a carcinogen. As is alcohol and processed meats and the sun and a whole host of other things. The point is that simply because the poster didn't get long Covid, that doesn't mean it's not something that people get. And it doesn't mean it's not attributable to Covid. While these people could be more susceptible to long Covid because they also have some other quality, trying to downplay either Covid or long Covid because of your individual experience is always a bad move. And the biggest irony is that people will do that to downplay Covid while pushing "vaccines are dangerous" ideology despite far, far more people having taken any vaccine than having gotten Covid. And those people experiencing far far fewer complications from that vaccine.
    - Spod_Gaju 2y ago
      No one saying people don’t have long Covid. I’m not saying people don’t have long Covid. I took care of a good friend who had long Covid for six months. I’m just saying there’s something in each person that determines whether or not Covid can cause long Covid. If you don’t make that distinction, all you do is make everyone think they’re going to get long Covid. And by not looking at the distinctions You never find out why people get Covid.

halfjoking 2y ago

[flagged]

BenFranklin100 2y ago
COVID is AIDS, drinking herbal tea will cure it, and the vaccines caused immunological damage. We have a winner. Edit: on second glance, you must be just taking the piss. Bravo.
luuurker 2y ago
In case this is not trolling, the brain damage may have been a bit more serious than you think. Not sure if tea can cure it. :P
- fallinditch 2y ago
  It is incorrect to assume that a medicinal tea cannot have anti-viral or other healing properties.
  - luuurker 2y ago
    I'm fine with it as long there's data to backup the claim. What we shouldn't do is claim that a certain tea is able to cure something like "long covid" when 1) it ranges from being tired to brain damage and 2) is not backed up by anything. And I'd say the same if it was some random drug being recommended.
fallinditch 2y ago
Now that some time has passed we can look at the anti-vax debate with less polarization and more nuance. It has been an eye-opening experience for me to attempt some objectivity here. At first I was a 'good citizen', took the vaccine doses, and I found it hard to appreciate the perspectives of the anti vaxers: they seemed hysterical, and so much conspiracy theory, with dodgy links to the far right. But some people did die from vaccine doses. Many countries withdrew the AstraZeneca vaccine due to safety and efficacy concerns. My brother had one dose of this and believes it almost killed him with blood clots in his brain. I myself have had effects in my heart (I was on Moderna vax). Then there are the concerns about government and big pharma disinformation, and the extraordinary amounts of profit being made. Formerly I would have dismissed the parent comment but now I'm open minded. My beliefs now have shifted somewhat to be undecided, certainly a lot more sceptical about the vaccines. In such a morass of disinformation we have to work out our own truths. For me, I believe on the balance of probability, and relating to my own experience, it's more likely that my heart issues were caused by COVID rather than the vaccine. But I also decided to not get the booster jabs.