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I'd be pretty peeved if I backed a non-profit through its most-risky early days only for them to turn around and shun the original philanthropic mission in the

I'd be pretty peeved if I backed a non-profit through its most-risky early days only for them to turn around and shun the original philanthropic mission in the spirit of profit maximization...

Filligree 2y ago
[flagged]
tw04 2y ago
Not quite how that played out. He wanted complete control, they told him no, he pulled his money in the hopes of bankrupting them. When he reneged on the $1 billion he pledged in funding they were forced to seek funding elsewhere (Microsoft). https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/24/23654701/openai-elon-musk-failed-takeover-report-closed-open-source https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/24/23654701/openai-elon-musk...
- xcv123 2y ago
  "in the hopes of bankrupting them" Where do you get that idea? How exactly were they entitled to his $1B donation?
  - stale2002 2y ago
    > How exactly were they entitled to his $1B donation? They weren't. But neither is Musk entitled to anything from OpenAI and the lawsuit was BS. He pulled his donation because he wasn't given total control, and now he is being a sore loser about it with a failed lawsuit.
    - xcv123 2y ago
      Fair enough. But I would do the same if I were in his shoes just out of spite for selling out to Microsoft. Sue them for everything they are worth.
      - KerrAvon 2y ago
        You too may be laughed out of court, then. IANAL, but your feelings aren't the law.
      - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
        But he isn’t. He was just stroking his own ego. It was always bullshit.
      - stale2002 2y ago
        Them having to sell out to microsoft is directly Elon's fault though! Like, you can't just directly cause the bad thing to happen with your actions, and then cry about it when someone goes to a different group for funding. If Elon didn't want the microsoft deal to happen then he shouldn't have reneged on his funding promise just because they refused to give up complete control to him.
        xcv123 2y ago
        Elon offered funding. OpenAI declined the offer then signed a deal with Microsoft. Elon did not force them to choose Microsoft. It was simply a disagreement. After they signed up with Microsoft, Elon tried to get some of his money back. Didn't work. Too bad. Now he can move on with his life.
        qarl 2y ago
        Well - except Elon offered the funding without the contingency of being CEO. It was when he demanded it that they went their separate ways. > Elon did not force them to choose Microsoft. By rescinding his offer, he did force them to make drastic changes in order to get new funding. > Now he can move on with his life. Are you familiar with Elon?
        stale2002 2y ago
        > It was simply a disagreement. Ok great. Then that means that any complaints from Elon about selling out are completely invalid, and it makes no sense for him to be mad about such a simple disagreement. > Now he can move on with his life. That would be wonderful. Unfortunately you were the person arguing that it was somehow deserved for him to sue. It is not deserved because he was the one who cause them to sell out to Microsoft. That is the point. The point is that you can't directly cause the supposedly bad action to happen, and then claim that you have been morally wronged when someone gets funding elsewhere. If you think that it was merely a disagreement, then fine. Your previous arguments are invalid where you try to claim that this is some huge sellout situation, when it is directly Elons fault.
  - IgorPartola 2y ago
    The person you are replying to said nothing about being entitled to the money. You are moving goal posts. This is the equivalent of me coming to you and promising you money so that you can pull off a risky business move, then at the critical moment when I don’t like something pulling that money. Sure I might be entitled to do that as it is my money, but it’s a dick move and would certainly leave you holding the bag.
    - xcv123 2y ago
      "it’s a dick move" implies that you are somehow entitled to that money. Otherwise it's a fair move. It is extremely delusional to expect to receive $1 billion dollars unconditionally.
      - bcrosby95 2y ago
        As my dad used to say: being an asshole isn't illegal.
        xcv123 2y ago
        They declined to give Elon Musk control when he offered them a billion to save the company. Instead they turned around and gave up control to Microsoft for billions. Do you honestly believe that if you were in Elon Musks shoes, that you would have given away a billion dollars without any conditions? How would you feel when you saw them turn around and sell out to Microsoft instead? Expecting $1B unconditionally seems like an asshole expectation. Delusional and childish entitlement. Do you believe that Microsoft has donated billions to OpenAI unconditionally?
        adventured 2y ago
        > How would you feel when you saw them turn around and sell out to Microsoft instead? They did not give up control to Microsoft. If that were true, the Apple deal (which Microsoft opposed) would not have just happened.
- indoordin0saur 2y ago
  OpenAI went from a not-for-profit institution seeking to build in a safe and fair way that wouldn't advantage a handful of tech elite to very much the opposite. We can speculate on Musk's own motivations or call him a hypocrite but he's not wrong in pointing out OpenAI's sketchy behavior.
  - KerrAvon 2y ago
    We don't have to speculate on his motivations. He's literally bankrolling a competitor.
    - llm_trw 2y ago
      You're still missing the part where a not for profit literally turned itself into a multi billion dollar for profit company and no ones been held accountable.
      - throwup238 2y ago
        Nonprofits have to do that if they engage in commercial activity for tax reasons. You can't just group whatever activities you want under a nonprofit and make all that money tax free. OpenAI had to split it off as a for-profit once they had a product to sell to the public. The nonprofit didn't "turn into" a for-profit, the nonprofit owns the corporation. Mozilla has the same structure with a for-profit corporation owned by the nonprofit, which allows it to take Google's money in exchange for default search engine placement. Likewise with Wikipedia/Wikimedia, Newman's Own, and so on.
        llm_trw 2y ago
        You absolutely can. You just can't distribute the results as dividends.
        throwup238 2y ago
        No, you absolutely can't. Nonprofits can't engage in substantial business activities that are unrelated to their mission. If they do, they can lose their non-profit status. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p598.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p598.pdf https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/2021/jun/unrelated-business-activity-substantial-tax-exempt-organizations.html https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/2021/jun/unrelated-busi...
jorts 2y ago
If you read the article, in the emails published Musk acknowledged the need to start charging customers due to the high cost of service, so it’s not like the other cofounders deceived him.
indoordin0saur 2y ago
Yeah. Musk is cringe but on this he's right on this. OpenAI went from a company with noble aspirations to just another sketchy big tech company at odds with the interests of the rest of society.
jonathankoren 2y ago
Yeah but the emails with Elon show that the "open" and "nonprofit" part was always a fucking a scam.
penjelly 2y ago
why do people take anything musk says at face value? He has his motives and they aren't ever as altruistic as he implies.
- whynotkeithberg 2y ago
  This is the better question... But probably easily answered by his army of sycophantic followers who will parrot anything he says no matter how contradictory the statements may be.

I'd be pretty peeved if I backed a non-profit through its most-risky early days only for them to turn around and shun the original philanthropic mission in the spirit of profit maximization...

Filligree 2y ago

[flagged]

tw04 2y ago

Not quite how that played out. He wanted complete control, they told him no, he pulled his money in the hopes of bankrupting them. When he reneged on the $1 billion he pledged in funding they were forced to seek funding elsewhere (Microsoft). https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/24/23654701/openai-elon-musk-failed-takeover-report-closed-open-source https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/24/23654701/openai-elon-musk...

xcv123 2y ago
"in the hopes of bankrupting them" Where do you get that idea? How exactly were they entitled to his $1B donation?
- stale2002 2y ago
  > How exactly were they entitled to his $1B donation? They weren't. But neither is Musk entitled to anything from OpenAI and the lawsuit was BS. He pulled his donation because he wasn't given total control, and now he is being a sore loser about it with a failed lawsuit.
  - xcv123 2y ago
    Fair enough. But I would do the same if I were in his shoes just out of spite for selling out to Microsoft. Sue them for everything they are worth.
    - KerrAvon 2y ago
      You too may be laughed out of court, then. IANAL, but your feelings aren't the law.
    - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
      But he isn’t. He was just stroking his own ego. It was always bullshit.
    - stale2002 2y ago
      Them having to sell out to microsoft is directly Elon's fault though! Like, you can't just directly cause the bad thing to happen with your actions, and then cry about it when someone goes to a different group for funding. If Elon didn't want the microsoft deal to happen then he shouldn't have reneged on his funding promise just because they refused to give up complete control to him.
      - xcv123 2y ago
        Elon offered funding. OpenAI declined the offer then signed a deal with Microsoft. Elon did not force them to choose Microsoft. It was simply a disagreement. After they signed up with Microsoft, Elon tried to get some of his money back. Didn't work. Too bad. Now he can move on with his life.
        qarl 2y ago
        Well - except Elon offered the funding without the contingency of being CEO. It was when he demanded it that they went their separate ways. > Elon did not force them to choose Microsoft. By rescinding his offer, he did force them to make drastic changes in order to get new funding. > Now he can move on with his life. Are you familiar with Elon?
        stale2002 2y ago
        > It was simply a disagreement. Ok great. Then that means that any complaints from Elon about selling out are completely invalid, and it makes no sense for him to be mad about such a simple disagreement. > Now he can move on with his life. That would be wonderful. Unfortunately you were the person arguing that it was somehow deserved for him to sue. It is not deserved because he was the one who cause them to sell out to Microsoft. That is the point. The point is that you can't directly cause the supposedly bad action to happen, and then claim that you have been morally wronged when someone gets funding elsewhere. If you think that it was merely a disagreement, then fine. Your previous arguments are invalid where you try to claim that this is some huge sellout situation, when it is directly Elons fault.
- IgorPartola 2y ago
  The person you are replying to said nothing about being entitled to the money. You are moving goal posts. This is the equivalent of me coming to you and promising you money so that you can pull off a risky business move, then at the critical moment when I don’t like something pulling that money. Sure I might be entitled to do that as it is my money, but it’s a dick move and would certainly leave you holding the bag.
  - xcv123 2y ago
    "it’s a dick move" implies that you are somehow entitled to that money. Otherwise it's a fair move. It is extremely delusional to expect to receive $1 billion dollars unconditionally.
    - bcrosby95 2y ago
      As my dad used to say: being an asshole isn't illegal.
      - xcv123 2y ago
        They declined to give Elon Musk control when he offered them a billion to save the company. Instead they turned around and gave up control to Microsoft for billions. Do you honestly believe that if you were in Elon Musks shoes, that you would have given away a billion dollars without any conditions? How would you feel when you saw them turn around and sell out to Microsoft instead? Expecting $1B unconditionally seems like an asshole expectation. Delusional and childish entitlement. Do you believe that Microsoft has donated billions to OpenAI unconditionally?
        adventured 2y ago
        > How would you feel when you saw them turn around and sell out to Microsoft instead? They did not give up control to Microsoft. If that were true, the Apple deal (which Microsoft opposed) would not have just happened.
indoordin0saur 2y ago
OpenAI went from a not-for-profit institution seeking to build in a safe and fair way that wouldn't advantage a handful of tech elite to very much the opposite. We can speculate on Musk's own motivations or call him a hypocrite but he's not wrong in pointing out OpenAI's sketchy behavior.
- KerrAvon 2y ago
  We don't have to speculate on his motivations. He's literally bankrolling a competitor.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    You're still missing the part where a not for profit literally turned itself into a multi billion dollar for profit company and no ones been held accountable.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      Nonprofits have to do that if they engage in commercial activity for tax reasons. You can't just group whatever activities you want under a nonprofit and make all that money tax free. OpenAI had to split it off as a for-profit once they had a product to sell to the public. The nonprofit didn't "turn into" a for-profit, the nonprofit owns the corporation. Mozilla has the same structure with a for-profit corporation owned by the nonprofit, which allows it to take Google's money in exchange for default search engine placement. Likewise with Wikipedia/Wikimedia, Newman's Own, and so on.
      - llm_trw 2y ago
        You absolutely can. You just can't distribute the results as dividends.
        throwup238 2y ago
        No, you absolutely can't. Nonprofits can't engage in substantial business activities that are unrelated to their mission. If they do, they can lose their non-profit status. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p598.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p598.pdf https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/2021/jun/unrelated-business-activity-substantial-tax-exempt-organizations.html https://www.thetaxadviser.com/issues/2021/jun/unrelated-busi...

jorts 2y ago

If you read the article, in the emails published Musk acknowledged the need to start charging customers due to the high cost of service, so it’s not like the other cofounders deceived him.

indoordin0saur 2y ago

Yeah. Musk is cringe but on this he's right on this. OpenAI went from a company with noble aspirations to just another sketchy big tech company at odds with the interests of the rest of society.

jonathankoren 2y ago

Yeah but the emails with Elon show that the "open" and "nonprofit" part was always a fucking a scam.

penjelly 2y ago

why do people take anything musk says at face value? He has his motives and they aren't ever as altruistic as he implies.

whynotkeithberg 2y ago
This is the better question... But probably easily answered by his army of sycophantic followers who will parrot anything he says no matter how contradictory the statements may be.