5 ms·

A perk of gamimg on Linux is that none of these invasive anti-cheats work. I consider that a plus since I never care enough about a video game to surrender my p

A perk of gamimg on Linux is that none of these invasive anti-cheats work. I consider that a plus since I never care enough about a video game to surrender my privacy or my kernel over to it.

jakebasile 2y ago
The really invasive kernel level ones don't and probably will never work, but there's a chunk of them that do. One of the big ones, Easy Anti Cheat, mostly works[1]. I, too, consider it a benefit of gaming on Linux. [1]: https://areweanticheatyet.com/breakdown https://areweanticheatyet.com/breakdown
senectus1 2y ago
totally agree, but there are some things we just cant do. I bought Marauders to play with my son, and had maybe 4 months of excellent fun play with him. Then the dev's enabled EAC... now I cant play it anymore :-( I cant blame the mods, they never wrote the game to work on linux it was just a happy happenstance that i could use proton to play it before the EAC transition. Every game i have in my steam catalogue is at risk of this (except for the native ones obviously)
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  Why wouldn't you blame them? They should at least provide an option to turn it off like games used to. It looks like it's a co-op game; if you're playing with your friends/family why do you need anti-cheat?
  - senectus1 2y ago
    no self hosted servers otherwise yeah, like 7 days to die I'd just turn it off.
    - ndriscoll 2y ago
      Why do you need self hosted servers? Most looter shooters are p2p in game, right? Either way, you just need a filter to allow matching with other people that have anti cheat off. Or at least allow private groups in that mode.
      - senectus1 2y ago
        its been a while but from memory the EAC is mandatory. you cant launch or play without anti cheat. its not an option.
        ndriscoll 2y ago
        Right, that's the criticism. Games used to make it optional. Why'd they stop (I suppose so they can sell you things like skins that you could otherwise just mod in like people used to)? They used to be about having fun. If you wanted to put gravity at 10% and make everyone use only rocket launchers with unlimited ammo, that fell within the parameters of having fun: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uo7-qyfeThU https://youtube.com/watch?v=uo7-qyfeThU
cortesoft 2y ago
I am not a fan of anti cheats, but I do like to play video games online and I want to be able to play fair games without cheaters. I am not sure what other options there are.
- fwip 2y ago
  Consoles have a lot fewer cheaters.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  A locked down system, possibly including remote attestation if things get real bad, is the only realistic solution aside from game streaming which removes the hardware from the user's control altogether. The freedom afforded in personal computing by Windows and Linux is fundamentally mutually exclusive to the security that multiplayer game operators and proper players legitimately need. It's why game consoles and mobile gaming are the core gaming platforms. Note how Sony and Microsoft blacklist consoles suspected to be used by cheaters, and how games (and also banking) absolutely hate rooted smartphones because it breaks the assumption of a locked down and secured system.
- MenhirMike 2y ago
  > I am not sure what other options there are. Unironically, Cloud gaming. Stadia had a terrible business model, but the tech worked. Microsoft's XCloud together with GamePass could be a winning ticket for that. (I think there's also GeForce Now) Of course, that wouldn't prevent anyone from capturing the screen, running image recognition software on the screen and sending USB Controller inputs to create an Aim Bot, but then again, that's not something anti-cheat software can stop these days anyway.
  - anvuong 2y ago
    Cloud gaming will never be good enough for competitive FPS or racing, the latency will never be overcome, it's just physics. And if you want to do 300-400FPS, like most high-level players in CS2 do, local hardware is the only solution. Ironically, cloud gaming is the perfect solution for single-player game, where input lag and high FPS doesn't matter much.
xboxnolifes 2y ago
How is that a plus? It's the same as just not playing the games with anticheat.
- eikenberry 2y ago
  It means you don't have to figure it out, the platform tells you whether it works or not.
mardifoufs 2y ago
To be more accurate, the games that use those anticheats aren't available on Linux.
thayne 2y ago
On the flip side, I am really annoyed about games that require anti-cheat, especially if I would just play them single player, because it makes it harder or impossible to play them on Linux.
baby 2y ago
Your comment is naive. It’s like saying “I don’t like sport so why do we force athletes to do drug tests”.
cam_l 2y ago
I wouldn't say none. I got VACd on Linux the other day. Not cos I was cheating, just blocking VAC from network access. And not because I was blocking VAC deliberately, just blocking arbitrary code running from random /tmp steam binaries. It is a pretty fucked situation that in order to allow anti cheat, you have to abandon securing your machine.
- eddiewithzato 2y ago
  Yea it’s because Valve updates and streams the VAC modules OTA lol. So to them you were essentially blocking VAC
npteljes 2y ago
Your kernel might be private, but all your files can be accessed by the game, if it's run by the same user, which I imagine is the setup for most gamers. And since games are proprietary and auto-updated, the potential to do damage or compromise privacy is very high. Adding the kernel to the mix basically changes nothing. It's a cliche, but XKCD shows this really succinctly: https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/
- eddiewithzato 2y ago
  Yea, complaining about the Anticheat doesn’t help since the game itself can arbitrarily run any code when you launch it

A perk of gamimg on Linux is that none of these invasive anti-cheats work. I consider that a plus since I never care enough about a video game to surrender my privacy or my kernel over to it.

jakebasile 2y ago

The really invasive kernel level ones don't and probably will never work, but there's a chunk of them that do. One of the big ones, Easy Anti Cheat, mostly works[1]. I, too, consider it a benefit of gaming on Linux. [1]: https://areweanticheatyet.com/breakdown https://areweanticheatyet.com/breakdown

senectus1 2y ago

totally agree, but there are some things we just cant do. I bought Marauders to play with my son, and had maybe 4 months of excellent fun play with him. Then the dev's enabled EAC... now I cant play it anymore :-( I cant blame the mods, they never wrote the game to work on linux it was just a happy happenstance that i could use proton to play it before the EAC transition. Every game i have in my steam catalogue is at risk of this (except for the native ones obviously)

ndriscoll 2y ago
Why wouldn't you blame them? They should at least provide an option to turn it off like games used to. It looks like it's a co-op game; if you're playing with your friends/family why do you need anti-cheat?
- senectus1 2y ago
  no self hosted servers otherwise yeah, like 7 days to die I'd just turn it off.
  - ndriscoll 2y ago
    Why do you need self hosted servers? Most looter shooters are p2p in game, right? Either way, you just need a filter to allow matching with other people that have anti cheat off. Or at least allow private groups in that mode.
    - senectus1 2y ago
      its been a while but from memory the EAC is mandatory. you cant launch or play without anti cheat. its not an option.
      - ndriscoll 2y ago
        Right, that's the criticism. Games used to make it optional. Why'd they stop (I suppose so they can sell you things like skins that you could otherwise just mod in like people used to)? They used to be about having fun. If you wanted to put gravity at 10% and make everyone use only rocket launchers with unlimited ammo, that fell within the parameters of having fun: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uo7-qyfeThU https://youtube.com/watch?v=uo7-qyfeThU

cortesoft 2y ago

I am not a fan of anti cheats, but I do like to play video games online and I want to be able to play fair games without cheaters. I am not sure what other options there are.

fwip 2y ago
Consoles have a lot fewer cheaters.
Dalewyn 2y ago
A locked down system, possibly including remote attestation if things get real bad, is the only realistic solution aside from game streaming which removes the hardware from the user's control altogether. The freedom afforded in personal computing by Windows and Linux is fundamentally mutually exclusive to the security that multiplayer game operators and proper players legitimately need. It's why game consoles and mobile gaming are the core gaming platforms. Note how Sony and Microsoft blacklist consoles suspected to be used by cheaters, and how games (and also banking) absolutely hate rooted smartphones because it breaks the assumption of a locked down and secured system.
MenhirMike 2y ago
> I am not sure what other options there are. Unironically, Cloud gaming. Stadia had a terrible business model, but the tech worked. Microsoft's XCloud together with GamePass could be a winning ticket for that. (I think there's also GeForce Now) Of course, that wouldn't prevent anyone from capturing the screen, running image recognition software on the screen and sending USB Controller inputs to create an Aim Bot, but then again, that's not something anti-cheat software can stop these days anyway.
- anvuong 2y ago
  Cloud gaming will never be good enough for competitive FPS or racing, the latency will never be overcome, it's just physics. And if you want to do 300-400FPS, like most high-level players in CS2 do, local hardware is the only solution. Ironically, cloud gaming is the perfect solution for single-player game, where input lag and high FPS doesn't matter much.

xboxnolifes 2y ago

How is that a plus? It's the same as just not playing the games with anticheat.

eikenberry 2y ago
It means you don't have to figure it out, the platform tells you whether it works or not.

mardifoufs 2y ago

To be more accurate, the games that use those anticheats aren't available on Linux.

thayne 2y ago

On the flip side, I am really annoyed about games that require anti-cheat, especially if I would just play them single player, because it makes it harder or impossible to play them on Linux.

baby 2y ago

Your comment is naive. It’s like saying “I don’t like sport so why do we force athletes to do drug tests”.

cam_l 2y ago

I wouldn't say none. I got VACd on Linux the other day. Not cos I was cheating, just blocking VAC from network access. And not because I was blocking VAC deliberately, just blocking arbitrary code running from random /tmp steam binaries. It is a pretty fucked situation that in order to allow anti cheat, you have to abandon securing your machine.

eddiewithzato 2y ago
Yea it’s because Valve updates and streams the VAC modules OTA lol. So to them you were essentially blocking VAC

npteljes 2y ago

Your kernel might be private, but all your files can be accessed by the game, if it's run by the same user, which I imagine is the setup for most gamers. And since games are proprietary and auto-updated, the potential to do damage or compromise privacy is very high. Adding the kernel to the mix basically changes nothing. It's a cliche, but XKCD shows this really succinctly: https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/

eddiewithzato 2y ago
Yea, complaining about the Anticheat doesn’t help since the game itself can arbitrarily run any code when you launch it