10 ms·
Roman Roads (2017)
- hammock 2y agoHow does this compare to the modern rail system?
- fred_is_fred 2y agoThat's really well done! I have no comment on the accuracy but it really highlights just how the Romans integrated new areas into the central empire through transportation (goods, ideas, and armies). I will also call out the road in Africa called "Caeserea lol"
- bdw5204 2y agoThat would presumably be the city of Caesarea in Mauretania[0] which was the capital of that province. According to the Wikipedia article for the modern town at that site[1], it was also called Iol in ancient times. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_in_Mauretania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarea_in_Mauretania [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherchell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherchell
- fred_is_fred 2y agoIol makes more sense than lol. Thanks for clarifying!
- readthenotes1 2y agoThe ego! It should have been called Via Scipio Africanus Motherforker
- supermatou 2y agoMuch better resolution: https://video-images.vice.com/articles/593594e8c270a8484d1d12e3/lede/1496779524673-Rome_III-01-1-1.png https://video-images.vice.com/articles/593594e8c270a8484d1d1...
- scroy 2y agoHis site has the same resolution, it's just scaled down on the page: https://sashamaps.net/images/roman_roads_original.png https://sashamaps.net/images/roman_roads_original.png
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nerdponx 2y agoThe original creator's page is: https://sashamaps.net/docs/maps/roman-roads-original/ https://sashamaps.net/docs/maps/roman-roads-original/ The summary here links right to the original content. I just wanted to highlight the original for the sake of other readers clicking through quickly. There's also a much more detailed (and more interesting) writeup on the creator's page.
- ydnaclementine 2y agoTheir other maps are sick too. Is there a term for these types of visualizations, where some data is visualized in a "non-standard" way in the context of the data?
- madcaptenor 2y agoI actually refer to his list of 20 simple, distinct colors (https://sashamaps.net/docs/resources/20-colors/ https://sashamaps.net/docs/resources/20-colors/) which he came up with for this map, pretty frequently. It's a nice palette.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y agoAn easy trick is to rotate hue with a spacing of 1.618. That guarantees maximum separation with no near collisions for any number of hues.
- madcaptenor 2y agoI've heard this one before. It only takes advantage of one dimension of the color space, though, and that bugs me. On the other hand you don't have to go look up a better palette.
- jacobolus 2y agoHere's a 2-dimensional version where you pick the angles https://observablehq.com/@jrus/categorical https://observablehq.com/@jrus/categorical If you want to keep the points theoretically ideally separated out to as many as colors as you want, you can use the "plastic sequence" for your parameters, https://observablehq.com/@jrus/plastic-sequence https://observablehq.com/@jrus/plastic-sequence
- metabagel 2y agoLOL, Pompeii (closed)
- moi2388 2y agoHow can it take 2 months on foot, yet only 1 month per horse, when a horse can only travel between 25-35 miles a day, which is not twice as far as a human can travel in a day, but about equal?
- bedobi 2y agoI'm sure the author would have more details on the ambiguity. Are the walkers marching soldiers? Is the rider a courier who changes to fresh horses at waystations? It's not clear :)
- mavhc 2y agoRelay horses
- nescioquid 2y agoMy thought is that one didn't simply travel alone on horseback, but with a group and baggage, and I wouldn't expect servants to be mounted. The animals help with the baggage. You also would want a group since there are highwaymen and freebooters on the road. I seem to recall oxen speed being about 12 miles per day.
- eschulz 2y agoHorses would often be swapped out at stations when a wealthy person would have to travel very quickly across a long distance. Maybe this is an average since the speed with which horsemen could travel would depend on the rate at which they exchanged their horses. In an extreme example from the year 9 BC, the future emperor Tiberius traveled on the Roman Roads 330 miles (531 km) between northern Italy and modern day Mainz, Germany in 36 hours without sleep. He was rushing to the deathbed of his older brother Drusus after the latter suffered mortal injuries in a freak horse accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drususstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drususstein
- Phenomenit 2y agoSo he rode really fast, reckless and sleep deprived to his brother who’d been injured in a horse riding accident?
- rippeltippel 2y agoThere's a missing road in Sardinia that I'm aware of, connecting Karalis (today's Cagliari) with Turris Libisonis (today's Porto Torres, near Sassari).
- dewey 2y agoThis is mentioned in the „Creative liberties taken“ section. It’s not a complete map.
- fabi0 2y agoOmnes viae Romam ducunt.
- cf100clunk 2y ago> Omnes viae Romam ducunt Hinc illuc pervenire non potes.
- arktos_ 2y agoItidem mihi, nobis ergo sunt naves longae navigandae
- zabzonk 2y agocaesar ad sum jam fortea brutus ad sum too caesar sic in omnibus brutus sic in hat
- BlueUmarell 2y agoQuid narras?
- arktos_ 2y agoHunc esse nugatorem censeo, quamvis jocosum
- ralferoo 2y agoI learned it slightly differently: caesar adsum iam forte pompeius aderat caesar sic in omnibus pompeius inis at
- behnamoh 2y agoSometimes I wonder if we've regressed in terms of attention to quality. Here in the US, I see lots of potholes on the streets and sidewalks. Meanwhile, the ancient cobblestone roads are still functional to this day.
- TimedToasts 2y agoDrive a semi over those cobblestones daily for a year and we'll see how they are doing.
- trgn 2y agoFor sure, but unfair comparison. Leave an asphalt road unattended for 10 years and it's cracked and overgrown, barely better than a dirtroad. A cobblestone at least will be salvageable, just will need a good weed wacking. Baseline quality is just higher.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- hombre_fatal 2y agoThey're pointing out the ridiculousness of the original comparison. But you made the same bad comparison as the original one since only the asphalt road can bear the loads of modern traffic.
- bluGill 2y agoPotholes are not regression. They are a good cost effect response. We can build roads that won't have potholes, but at vastly more cost, it is better in the long run to build roads as we do and then fix potholes every year. Cobblestones also get potholes and the like when subject to heavy car traffic.
- marssaxman 2y agoThe neighbors on my block share a gravel alleyway, which develops enormous potholes over time. The city does not maintain it, so we all chip in every couple of years to have it re-graded. One of our neighbors, who happens to own a few expensive sports cars, wants us to have the alley paved with asphalt instead: but it will take twenty years of regrading before the project would break even.
- strnisa 2y agoCoincidentally, this is also the future hyperloop map.
- anVlad11 2y agoI've been always fascinated by subway maps. The best ones are usually made manually and require update from contractors on every infrastructure extension. Were there any efforts to make autogenerated styled subway maps? Not like stylization of OSM data, but real schemes that show the whole system without sensory overload?
- ygra 2y agoSome examples of automatic layout in this style: - M. Nöllenburg: Automated Drawings of Metro Maps, 2005. We've used that a while ago to render a few pretty images with our graph visualization library, but runtime is prohibitive (along with the requirement of a fast ILP solver). - LOOM: https://github.com/ad-freiburg/loom https://github.com/ad-freiburg/loom and https://loom.cs.uni-freiburg.de/global https://loom.cs.uni-freiburg.de/global
- solardev 2y agoWow, cool. Thanks for sharing! I hope someone builds a web version of Mini Metro with this on top of OSM.
- promiseofbeans 2y agoSide note: Mini Metro is an incredible game, and the studio is still updating it with new content a decade after release! I highly recomend everyone here checking it out if they haven't already. (Not affiliated, just a fan)
- lqet 2y agoAn example of Tokyo can be found here: https://loom.cs.uni-freiburg.de/global#subway-lightrail/octi/13/35.69585260116239/139.77939605712893 https://loom.cs.uni-freiburg.de/global#subway-lightrail/octi... Schematization took around 2 minutes according to the statistics, it really doesn't look that bad.
- solardev 2y ago
- Yhippa 2y agoThis is really neat! Thanks for sharing. I wonder if there's an analogue for these routes and the roadway system there? I imagine so. I thought it was interesting how short Via Appia was. Learning Latin growing up, I imagined that to be much longer.
- EGreg 2y agoI checked and I think they are missing King’s Highway: https://www.audleytravel.com/jordan/country-guides/the-kings-highway-in-jordan https://www.audleytravel.com/jordan/country-guides/the-kings... Was it not Roman enough, ie not built by Romans so not on the map? Or did it not exist during Roman times?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoFunny thing is they did have something like this already: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_Peutingeriana https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_Peutingeriana (Check out one of the full size scans in the links)
- delichon 2y agoThe subway map is great for seeing the shape of the network, but this one is better at showing the geographical constraints that shaped the network.
- jajko 2y agoVery schematic from region I live around - Geneva and Aosta are not that far on the map and seem close neighbours, but highest part of alps lies in between, passes can be brutal and far apart (>=2500m high, ie St Bernard pass from where famous dogs come from, can end up snowed anytime all year round and especially 2000 years ago, at least 6 months/year unpassable for carriages and dangerous for anything else).
- darkwater 2y agoWell, you know, a subway would pass under the mountains ;)
- busyant 2y agoPretty cool. My parents grew up in small villages that are adjacent to one of these ancient roads (via Tiburtina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Tiburtina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Tiburtina) and the road basically still exists as a modern road. I remember driving near Pescara with my parents in the 1990s--they had not been back to Italy in 35+ years and they were trying to find their way back to their home towns. We stopped the car on the side of a main road and asked a woman who was walking, "Dov'e' la Tiburtina?" (where is the Tiburtina?). The woman responded... "QUEST'E' la Tiburtina!" (This is the Tiburtina).
- beerandt 2y agoNewer but similar thing with Old Spanish Trail through the southern US (and similar historic trails). So many roads named after something or named some nostalgic but generic thing, that no one realizes when they are actually driving on the modernized version of the real thing. Among other things, it seems most expect there to be a route 66 style or (american) rail-row insitu abandoned artifact of these roads (which do sometimes exist in stretches of realignment) but don't realize that un-abandoned places generally aren't going to abandon their roads. ETA: Old Spanish Trail went from the Atlantic coast of Florida to the Pacific along the Gulf Coast then continued west. But the places with continuous use to today from Texas east are now more often excluded from 'Old Spanish Trail' maps.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- QuercusMax 2y agoEl Camino Real in California is now just another road full of strip malls going through Mountain View and Palo Alto.
- brudgers 2y agoThe road retained its name in part of Silicon Valley, but the 101 follows the Camino Real as it continues south. There are commemorative markers.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoabsolutely love this. well done
- ardit33 2y agoThe Roman Empire was very advanced for the time, and it left such a huge imprint on the civilization even centuries, and thousands of years after it. The organization was a different scale. Fun fact: Some of the most famous battles in England in the middle ages, such as battle of Hasting, were basically 5k - 9k soldiers in each side. That's just one and a half Roman legion. Rome, could field 12 legions at a time, and the scale was insane. I can see why the Roman Empire remained such a symbol of civilization for a thousand of years after its fall.
- ffgjgf1 2y agoTo be fair England was a complete backwater in Roman times, just like much of Europe away from the Mediterranean. IIRC by the 1000s Germany, France and Britain had already well surpassed their Roman population peaks, Italy on the other hand took another 500 years or so.
- mr_toad 2y agoEven by the time of the Norman invasion it was still a back water that was being horse traded around by Danes.
- throw_pm23 2y agoEven today... Sorry, I kid, I kid.
- maximinus_thrax 2y ago> The Roman Empire was very advanced for the time, and it left such a huge imprint on the civilization even centuries, and thousands of years after it. Some even say.. the empire never ended.
- fisian 2y agoCool visualization. From the title I thought it would be this project (called "roads to Rome"): https://benedikt-gross.de/projects/roads-to-rome/ https://benedikt-gross.de/projects/roads-to-rome/
- krylon 2y agoI was about to complain that my hometown is missing, but then remembered it didn't exist back then.
- Brosper 2y ago[flagged]
- phasnox 2y agoBecause it is very intersting knowledge?
- Brosper 2y agoOk, you don't need to downvote my comment because of my curiosity. It's rude!
- art0rz 2y agoFrom the HN guidelines: > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
- MattJ100 2y agoFrom the HN guidelines[1]: "On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. " [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- holoduke 2y agoMany of the roads in Europe between cities are former roman roads. Sometimes you can even see ancient small bridges along the bigger highways. The romans cut out entire mountains to guide roads through. Amazing work.
- jonmon6691 2y agoI don't know if "Genava" is the same as modern day Geneva CH, but if it is, then how is can it be correct to show Vienna to the west of it? I get that a subway map abstracts the physical layout, but surely this is a mistake in the topology??
- ipsi 2y agoI believe the Vienna on the map is, today, Vienne, a French Commune: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienne,_Is%C3%A8re https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienne,_Is%C3%A8re
- alephxyz 2y agoThe current city of Vienna was Vindobana in Roman times. The Gaul Vienna on this map is now https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienne,_Is%C3%A8re https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienne,_Is%C3%A8re
- AlbertCory 2y agoThere's a series on Amazon Prime where a Brit actually travels the main Roman Roads in England, revisiting the history while he goes. They actually demonstrate how they got the roads so straight.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- raddles 2y agoIs it this? Britain's Ancient Tracks with Tony Robinson https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6165532/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt6165532/
- AlbertCory 2y agoNo. https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0CTMM9JDX/ref=atv_hm_hom_c_lZOsi7_2_2?jic=8%7CEgNhbGw%3D https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0CTMM9JDX/ref=atv_hm...
- zer0sand0nes 2y agoUlpiana - still relevant in Kosovo Dyrrachium - Durres - modern day Albania Lissus - Lezha - MOdern day Albania
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y agoI guess Darioritum is how they got to Asterix' place...
- mkarliner 2y agoAll hail Harry Beck, who invented these maps https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/culture-and-heritage/art-and-design/harry-becks-tube-map https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/culture-and-heritage/...
- schappim 2y agoWhy is Geneva east of Vienna?
- FinnKuhn 2y agoI think this should explain it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40602519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40602519 (TLDR: its not Vienna)
- psychoslave 2y ago"Caesarela lol"? WTF is this station? :'D Great job
- fedeb95 2y agoIt seems you're missing Via Gallica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Gallica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_Gallica
- boomskats 2y agoNaissus represent! I love this. Testament to Harry Beck's circuit board mapping approach - so easy to read. With Roman roads being far more 'straight' than London tube lines, it's even more suitable.
- guax 2y agoRomaaaaan roads. Take me hoooome...
- dghughes 2y agoIf you want to cause controversy and stir up some trouble in the ancient history community there's nothing like the topic of Roman roads. I didn't realize it until reading up on the subject. There seems to be two camps the "ancient aliens" type who argue Roman roads were built and lasted 2,000 years vs the roads were continually repaired over 2,000 years just like any other road.
- throw4847285 2y agoPictures like this make me think of all the different types of empire that have existed over the millennia. For example, you couldn't make a map like this of the Golden Horde because nomadic societies aren't nearly as road-obsessed as sedentary ones (see: ours). People are too obsessed with comparing every other empire to Rome. I remember going to a museum with my friend who is an archaeologist and there was a fantastic exhibit on the Incan Empire. I was really enjoying it, but he was frustrated by how much of it was devoted to arguing that the Incan Empire was as cool as the Roman Empire on the latter's terms. "I don't want to hear about how the Inca were similar to the Romans. I want to hear about how they were different." That really stuck with me.
- keiferski 2y agoHave you read Deleuze? from your comment here I think you would enjoy his thoughts on empires and what he called “war machines” and “the state apparatus.” Here’s a good comment on it: The TL:DR is: for D&G 'war machines' are the specific constitution, form and alignment of a state that refuses to be a state (a nomad state). It is the tools by which a state refuses to be a state. The state as we think of it relies upon centralization, stability and continuity--war machines are by definition nomadic, shifting locations, and leaders, decentralizing, redefining what is and isn't a periphery etc. At the same time, both are effective at commandeering power and directing it towards a goal: even if the state claims a monopoly on being able to do this. It is the difference between a Medieval city state and the Mongol horde, or a pirate ship, or if you prefer a contemporary example, between a modern state, and terrorist groups, marginal groups, autonomous zone festivals like "Burning man", anarchist collectives, homeless camps, etc which operate within it and on the periphery of it, while neglecting or actively disrupting the state's hegemony. War machines can and often are coopted by state power, but they are still separate from it and disruptive to it. https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalTheory/comments/832eri/comment/dveplzi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalTheory/comments/832eri/comm...
- throw4847285 2y agoNo! Got a book or essay recommendation in particular? I'd definitely be interested. I've been thinking a lot about how the idea of "American Empire" gets dismissed as "hippie crap," but it's an extremely helpful lens for understanding what global superpowers do in the modern era, as long as you have a more flexible definition of empire than "Exactly like Rome."
- liminal 2y agoInteresting choice making Gaza so prominent and not including Jerusalem
- throawayjune 2y ago[dead]
- throawayjune7 2y agoit's there. Aelia Capitolina.
- xarromaster 2y agoWe have a very good expert in Spain He have this old web : https://viasromanas.net/ https://viasromanas.net/ with very good maps and this one https://www.traianvs.net/ https://www.traianvs.net/ [Traslate to english from wikipedia] Isaac Moreno Gallo (1958- )1 is a Spanish engineer, historian and communicator. Isaac Moreno is a Public Works technical engineer and graduate in Geography and History. He works in the Spanish Ministry of Development. He has carried out various projects to identify and study Roman infrastructure, especially Roman roads and hydraulic infrastructure. He has worked for various public administrations as a specialist in Roman engineering and carried out research on ancient technique, ancient topographical instruments and other facets related to this engineering.2 He has written several specialized books and participated, as a presenter, in television programs on Roman engineering. He maintains a YouTube channel where he publishes informative videos of his research. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Moreno_Gallo https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Moreno_Gallo https://www.youtube.com/@IsaacMorenoGallo https://www.youtube.com/@IsaacMorenoGallo If you want to see more he have this documentary serie in full english. Called "Roman enginering" https://youtu.be/MNU40dq5B0U?si=wbpfZa5MVG5O0oMQ https://youtu.be/MNU40dq5B0U?si=wbpfZa5MVG5O0oMQ For me he is one of the greatest experts in Roman engineering in the world.
- timonoko 2y agoMe myself maybe the only one here who used Roman Roads for effective travel. I bicycled from Finland to Yugoslavia in 1971. Roads were often just mud for tanks and lorries. But sometimes I found small roads with flat stones. Especially I remember the road between Ljubjana and Udine. There was quite wide road sections in the middle of nowhere completely paved with stones. This was the Main Roman Highway between EMONA and AQUILEIA says the map (https://imperium.ahlfeldt.se/index.php?id=10717 https://imperium.ahlfeldt.se/index.php?id=10717). I truly wondered who the hell has built this road, because I did not know shit about any Romans.