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Artists are fleeing Instagram to keep their work out of Meta's AI
- thegrim33 2y agoIt's always interesting to note editorialized headlines. People "fleeing" Instagram, or "scrambling", or covid "surging", etc. When they could just provide the data about how many users are leaving and let the data speak for itself. Whether there's even any data behind this or if it's an article based on a handful of random tweets who knows, as it's a pay-walled article. On a meta level, what percentage of HN readers are paying for a subscription to the washington post? Why are links to paid articles even allowed when the vast majority of readers won't even have access to read it?
- foundart 2y ago> Cara founder Jingna Zhang said the app has grown from about 40,000 users to 650,000 in the past week
- s1mon 2y agoAnd Instagram had 800 million in 2017 (the last year with data on Wikipedia). Other searches and sites have numbers well over a billion users. I don't see how Cara is at all a threat or significant at the moment.
- foundart 2y agohttps://wapo.st/45bTxIp https://wapo.st/45bTxIp
- mrguyorama 2y ago>On a meta level, what percentage of HN readers are paying for a subscription to the washington post? Why are links to paid articles even allowed when the vast majority of readers won't even have access to read it? HN rules explicitly say we aren't allowed to complain about that
- hu3 2y agoI wonder if it is it allowed to complain about the rules. Admins seems to be quite open and helpful from what I saw.
- throwup238 2y agoWorst case scenario someone flags your posts. Go nuts with it.
- paulddraper 2y agoInstagram refugees seek refuge from Meta's AI
- Larrikin 2y agoI wonder what percentage of HN posts have someone complaining about the headline of an article instead of it's contents.
- jjtheblunt 2y agoyou spelled "its" wrong. :)
- matthewsinclair 2y agoWell played, sir. This comment is peak HN. You have nothing more you need to do today. Give yourself a pat on the back and head home.
- jjtheblunt 2y ago:). sometimes things are too funny here, i must confess.
- rudy6912 2y agoYou miscapitalized "s" and "i". :)
- jjtheblunt 2y agoI did! :)
- bediger4000 2y agoI subscribe to WaPo, but the latest editor changes are making me leery. I'm keeping an eye on the slant of their political coverage, and I'm ready to unsubscribe.
- barryrandall 2y agoI wonder what the average rank of the most popular comment complaining about the headline is.
- exabrial 2y agoI want a computer to do my dishes so I can work on Art; I don't want a computer to make art so I only have to do dishes.
- exe34 2y agoyou could learn mindfulness meditation, then you could do either the dishes or the art and derive, allegedly, the same pleasure.
- bluefirebrand 2y agoSounds like self-gaslighting to me
- throwup238 2y agoYou have just unlocked the Religion tech tree! Press 'M' to start a Crusade.
- exe34 2y agoall forms of happiness or disappointment ultimately boil down to a decision that's made somewhere in your brain: this is bad. this is good. it is entirely within your means to decide for yourself, no matter your circumstances or the vagueries of happenstance.
- shrimp_emoji 2y agoZen meditation is less gaslighting yourself into "false good" and more "the wise old man bowed his head solemnly and spoke, 'There is actually no difference between good and bad things. You imbecile. You fucking moron.'"
- exe34 2y agoit's the same in Stoicism, once you realise that you get to choose for yourself, it doesn't matter what external circumstances are, you can still be pleased with your choices within what's open to you. your comment also reminds me of discourses by Epictetus. he sounds like an irritated teacher modelling what patience looks like.
- GenerativeAl 2y ago[dead]
- shrimp_emoji 2y agoAs a programmer, I'm thinking about fleeing GitHub for similar reasons. :C
- Bjorkbat 2y agoI'd probably jump ship myself were it not for Github's social features. I like my little green squares
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y agoFYI Gitea has green squares. Assuming we are taking about a rather pointless activity graph thingy.
- matt-attack 2y agoSocial features? I like the CI/CD stuff and Pages.
- meowface 2y agoTheir policy is to not use code from private repos, right?
- myaccountonhn 2y agoI’ve done it, I self host my git repos now. It’s a lot of fun actually and I learnt a ton setting it up! I can recommend gitea (easiest to setup) or gitolite + cgit (minimal)
- iamacyborg 2y agoThe opt-out process was pretty easy, despite Meta using purposefully misleading language to make it seem more complicated.
- shaggie76 2y agoMy experience was quite the opposite: I couldn't find a setting to toggle and had to search for a guide. When I found one like https://beebom.com/opt-out-meta-ai-training-instagram-facebook/ https://beebom.com/opt-out-meta-ai-training-instagram-facebo... the process was not only shockingly obfuscated but I could not even submit the form because it demanded that I provide a prompt that made their AI disclose my personal information.
- iamacyborg 2y agoAh weird, I just clicked through from an email they sent but I suppose they may not have sent that in every jurisdiction.
- paxys 2y agoThis is the kind of article whose source is 4 tweets.
- astrange 2y agoUnsurprisingly, artists are more neurotic than the average person. Online artists also seem to spend a lot of time lying to each other about how AI works.
- Exuma 2y agoWhile I agree it’s painful, I’ve seen examples of ai reproducing exact bastardized versions of famous instagram digital artists. You can clearly see where it learned from it and it’s extremely obvious, not in the sense of one who could say “oh yes I was inspired by this” but a literal 1:1 copy that has the drunken haze of melted ai nonsense over top. In this respect I was like damn … that may piss me off.
- astrange 2y agoYeah, you can do anything with AI so you can train it to reproduce a specific image if you want to. Normally this would be considered overfitting in a foundation model, so there's some protection in that they don't want to be doing it. But with fine-tuning it can happen intentionally. But people can also copy you by hand if they want to.
- throwaway290 2y agoIt is not even about remaking some individual work, that is just the most egregious. For any other output, even if it does not reproduce 1:1, the only reason it works at all is thanks to acquired training data and most of it is stolen.
- thot_experiment 2y agoAs the saying goes, you can't put pandora back in the bag. AI art is here to stay, and it's here to dominate. The problem is the economic system within which art is created and assigned value, any attempts to solve the "problem" of AI art without addressing the underlying economic incentives are destined to fail in the same way that we have failed in preventing the use of sweatshops by clothing suppliers. Even if we have strong, even overbearing legislation put into place to protect artists, we're just going to end up with the biggest most profitable offenders buying/using illegally trained models through middle men, and feigning ignorance when/if they are found out. Though most of the "has this model been trained on X" conundrum is likely to be irrelevant on a years (months?) timescale as art styles are far less unique than artists would like to think. See tencent's PhotoMaker or other modified CLIP approaches. Even a model not trained on a particular face can be conditioned to generate said face using a oneshot approach because the vector representing that face can be constructed even if the face itself doesn't exist in the training data. I'm certain the same is true for artistic styles.
- throwaway290 2y agoConveniently defeatist. "AI" tech? yes we can, scrape the entire web, fire up the transformers (aka roll that VC money)! "prevent stealing from creators" tech? nah, too difficult, we don't know how, human problem (the neighborhood queer artist can't pay nearly as much). Fingerprinting technologies. Generative tools can be mandated to embed watermarks. Original images can include fingerprinting and other counter-theft measures that tools must respect. Offenders who publish tools that don't can be prosecuted a la tornado cash. etc It's not about art style. The model exists thanks to data, period. No data, no vectors. And almost all of that data is stolen.
- thot_experiment 2y agoTornado Cash was a service that people used, Stable Diffusion is a 2gb blob of tensors. The latter is not something you can control, the MPAA/RIAA have been trying to control the proliferation of pirated media for 30 years, it has not worked and their case is WAY more clear cut under our current system of laws. Additionally, there's no way you will be able to force people to insert fingerprinting into the model or surrounding tooling. There is no way to force fingerprinting into the source material, glaze etc are memes that are easily defeated and in fact can help stabilize outputs when training on glazed images is used as a negative embedding. The idea that any of this stuff is a viable method of combating gen AI is laughable. You can run this stuff on an 8 year old GPU with a blob the size of a couple netflix episodes. While outputs straight from SD may be identifiable, SD + manual intervention can easily create outputs that are not traceable. There is no workable solution that doesn't address the underlying economic incentives. It doesn't matter that the model is trained on data that you believe is "stolen", people who want the model will have access to it, you won't be able to prove the outputs are AI, and even if you could, it won't be cost effective to prosecute people for creating in this way. The problem here is our economic system and it's reliance on scarcity and markets to assign value to things that are fundamentally not scarce (AI models, digital goods) and it's failure to correctly assign value to things that have enormous positive externalities (artists creating culture).
- qarl 2y agoWho remembers when Instagram changed its TOS giving itself license to do these things? https://www.theverge.com/2012/12/20/3790560/instagram-new-terms-of-service-from-overreaction-to-retraction https://www.theverge.com/2012/12/20/3790560/instagram-new-te...
- jerrymcflurry 2y agoNo novelist wrote a novel without first reading other people's work, no painter painted a picture without studying other painters first. And then sold their work for money. All knowledge is derivative. AI just happens not be a person, that's all. But it isn't any different. As much as I hate AI, I don't see any problem with training models based on other people's work.