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Microsoft Recall should make you consider Linux
- micw 2y agoI guess if you not considered linux after windows 10 and windows 11, recall also won't make you consider linux.
- qwertox 2y agoI know that I'm going to move away. I just don't know if to MacOS or Linux. I'll wait until the M4 Mac Studio is released and then decide.
- jakogut 2y agoOut of the frying pan, into the fire. At a certain point it becomes apparent that proprietary operating system vendors don't have your best interest at heart, and the only winning move is software freedom.
- mey 2y agoAnnoying popups to enable OneDrive are bad but not catastrophic compared to the functionality Windows provides. This feels like it is.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago> Annoying popups to enable OneDrive are bad but not catastrophic To be fair, it really is scores and scores of jabs to avoid in Windows - with more added bi-weekly. Today I had to counter (for many users) 1) the orange notify dot (start menu->user) trying to lure users into a non-consensual Microsoft account setup and 2) the clickable suggestions on the lock screen, carefully positioned in the click-space where the password box will be. It's like MS found a copy of Creepy Uncle For Dummies and hovered for hours over every page.
- koolba 2y agoAt some point the frog does jump out of the pot.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nucleardog 2y agoNot everyone sees a candy crush ad or some basic telemetry if you're not willing to pony up the $150 for the "Pro" edition as a complete moral outrage. For those that don't the downsides of using Windows are generally less than the downsides of using Linux. For many people, the idea that their computer will be making a full recording of literally everything they do on their computer might be enough to tip the scales. (Yes, there's always been telemetry, but we're talking the difference between some guy that sits outside your neighbourhood and writes down what time of day cars come and leave versus some guy with a video camera that follows you between your bedroom and bathroom and records while you sleep, shower and shit, but totally promises to not show anyone the recording. This is pretty obviously different.) I say this as someone that's used Linux and BSD for over three decades... on servers. Ran Windows on my desktop (including Windows 10 for over half a decade). Every year or two I'd throw Linux on my computer and see how it did. A couple years back is when we finally got to the point where at least all the essential functionality I needed worked out of the box. The downsides of using Linux were less than that of Windows, and I immediately wiped the drive, installed Linux, and have used it exclusively since. This sort of stuff, if it couldn't be disabled, would have definitely tipped the scales in Linux's favour much sooner.
- christkv 2y agoI had exactly this conversation with a friend of mine today looking at getting a one of the new windows arm laptops. I can’t see this features not ending up in tears down the road.
- JohnFen 2y agoIf/when my Windows-using friends move to 11 on a machine that meets the hardware requirements for Recall, I will make sure they know how to turn it off and strongly encourage them to do so.
- dylan604 2y agoAre you going to constantly remind them to check that is still off after the first time they turn it off. This is exactly the kind of setting that I would expect to get reset after any/all updates
- Scharkenberg 2y agoConstantly? My friends and I hardly ever talk about computers, and that's how it is for most people. What you are suggesting would be a very weird habit. Your friends have agency, are allowed to like or not care about Recall, and needn't be nannied the whole time. Reminder: being more tech-literate than the average person doesn't grant anyone the right to be annoying about such topics. Cherish the time with your friends instead.
- dylan604 2y agoI find it the opposite where friends lean on my support. I didn't mean constantly as in nagging. I meant constantly as in how often MS would have the opportunity to break this with their updates
- JohnFen 2y agoNo. I'll of course mention it in the first place, but they're grownups who can make their own decisions. They don't need me to babysit them, and if I were to bring it up after every update, they'd quickly learn to stop listening to me because I'd just come off as "that guy".
- dgunay 2y agoI'm just hoping that Linux support on the new Snapdragon ARM laptops is good. I've already completely abandoned Windows but I'm holding out on getting a new laptop because I would prefer not to run MacOS.
- dheera 2y agoI really want Framework to come out with an Linux-supporting ARM motherboard that has 24 hours of battery life
- Thegn 2y agohttps://www.qualcomm.com/developer/blog/2024/05/upstreaming-linux-kernel-support-for-the-snapdragon-x-elite https://www.qualcomm.com/developer/blog/2024/05/upstreaming-... I know someone who works for Qualcomm, he says they are taking Linux support very seriously.
- dgunay 2y agoYeah I believe it, I just don't know how much of that is up to Qualcomm and how much of it depends on the OEMs for things like peripherals and I/O.
- t0mas88 2y agoWindows 10 made me buy a mac... After many years of alternating between Windows and Linux, the lazy "drivers just work" alternative without all the Microsoft bloat is a Mac. Linux is great, love it on the server, but it's never a "just works" experience on any modern laptop type hardware.
- acidburnNSA 2y agoDrivers seem to just work in Linux now too these days!
- TylerE 2y agoFor the most boring consumer stuff maybe, but like any audio hardware that ain’t totally mainstream is not good.
- an-unknown 2y ago> […] like any audio hardware that ain’t totally mainstream is not good. Funnily enough, it totally depends on the hardware. If your audio hardware is supported by Core Audio on Mac, chances are it will also work on Linux without problems. If your audio hardware is older, chances are it will not work on Windows due to the lack of modern drivers but will work on Linux without problems. This also applies to a lot of other older hardware like scanners/printers/... or even built-in peripherals in older laptops. But if it's something strange (e.g., MOTU MIDI interfaces come to mind which use a non-standard USB protocol), you'll have to hack your own kernel driver which you probably don't want to do. Of course if you are adventurous and do hack your own kernel driver, even this will work, and you'll probably even find someone else's driver code on github. What's also interesting about hardware support on Linux is that a lot of things which require extra drivers on Windows just work out of the box on Linux, especially if it's in any way relevant for servers like various network cards or if it's one of the many "standard" USB UART chips.
- shric 2y agoTell that to anyone wanting a performant Wayland experience with an Nvidia GPU and Sway while maintaining secure boot. It's doable, but it doesn't "just work".
- al_borland 2y agoI bought a cheap mini pc a while back that shipped with Windows 11. I ultimately planned to use Linux, but kept the Windows install around “just in case” and went for a dual boot. In case of what? I have no idea, I haven’t had Windows in my house in many years. I think I didn’t want to give up the license, and when I looked around, I couldn’t find an easy way to save it. I saw recall about the same time as I was thinking of using the mini pc for something else. Seeing what Windows had planned, and seeing Copilot shoehorned into my taskbar after a Windows update was enough. I blew away the install and only have Linux running now.
- observationist 2y agoA company floating this 20 years ago would have been laughed into oblivion. Stuff like this is a nightmare; it's terrifying that Microsoft just trots it out like they have, as if there's absolutely nothing wrong or concerning at all.
- oakpond 2y agoA problem with AI I don't hear anybody really talking about is how it is creating a massive incentive to start gathering more and more personal information. More and more training data will be needed to make better and better AI products.
- luyu_wu 2y agoIf the data is ananomous (as it should in all telemetry), this is less of a concern. But yeah, it's definitely concerning to see more incentive for data collection beyond ad targeting.
- simonw 2y agoAndrej Karpathy: https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1797313173449764933 https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1797313173449764933 > Turns out that LLMs learn a lot better and faster from educational content as well. This is partly because the average Common Crawl article (internet pages) is not of very high value and distracts the training, packing in too much irrelevant information. The average webpage on the internet is so random and terrible it’s not even clear how prior LLMs learn anything at all. People keep assuming that AI companies want to pipe any old junk into their models, but I'm increasingly convinced that this isn't true.
- dylan604 2y agoSetting aside the copyright issues--just like the AI companies already have--it would be interesting to train a model only on text books of all ages. Would it be able to tell the edits/revisions/versions that have been made over time and categorize them from new learning vs changes in political winds?
- amlib 2y agoAnd all the drivel that google's own search AI has been spewing comes from where? Or the incredible breadth of, often wrong, knowledge that ChatGPT can spew out in seconds, where does that comes from? Maybe at some point they will try to create their own, very limited, "knowledge base" but then those AI assistants cease to be a jack of all trades, while still being masters of nothing.
- mondomondo 2y agoIt’s funny people think that they have a choice about using MS products.
- doublerabbit 2y agoLinux isn't suitable for the non-tech user, and it will never be. Linux will never reach the peak that Windows has. It's just too clunky. Those willing to seek something different will embrace but if I gave my mother a computer with Linux installed, I'd never not be tech support. And my mother is technology oriented. Her first computer was a Wang Labs machine back from the 80's. She can create her own website, operate photoshop and she even built her own system. She's 73. Recall just doesn't matter to those out of the geek sector. As with privacy for that matter. "I got nothing to hide"
- luyu_wu 2y agoThis comment seems unnecessarily brutal and reads like it is written by someone who knows nothing about Linux. If anything, keep your mind open and never say never.
- doublerabbit 2y agoI'm a Unix admin. I've used Linux for over 15 years ever since the age of 13, where a dutch hacker gave me a box debian. Kernel 2x was my first setup. Icepack Linux was my first Linux OS: https://distrowatch.com/table-mobile.php?distribution=icepack https://distrowatch.com/table-mobile.php?distribution=icepac... Where Matrox S3 drivers were something you needed to modify yourself and Xorg was XFree86. If I was to gloat; sadly my open mind has become a cynical one a long time ago.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- okanat 2y agoI used Linux as my primary OS for 15 years and currently earn money from maintaining an internal distro that is compiled from scratch. I can go as deep into the kernel as I want and if the business needs I can change or patch a package. The more I gain experience in Unix family systems the more I discover how haphazardly those are made. I agree with the commenter 100%.
- mococa 2y agoI have migrated my gaming machine to Linux, and it have been great! The reason was the introduction of copilot, ads and other shenanigans.
- illusive4080 2y ago…how can you effectively game on Linux? Can you use Steam in home streaming too? I’d love to ditch windows
- Danny_Dan4 2y agoTL;DR, Steam's Proton compatibility layer. 90% of steam games work out of the box on it, with the biggest exceptions that don't work being due to anti-cheats explicitly preventing the game from running in something like proton/wine. You can thank the steam deck for bringing this level of functionality, as it's basically a Linux box with -actually reasonable defaults-.
- illusive4080 2y agoNiiiice
- mococa 2y agoThrough the Proton. Yes. You can streaming to any steam receiver/app :-)
- illusive4080 2y agoDual boot incoming
- aceazzameen 2y agoI'm all for people switching to Linux from Windows. But doesn't Recall only work on Microsoft Copilot+ PCs? I'm assuming anyone on a normal PC doesn't have to worry about Recall. But I could be completely wrong.
- hhh 2y agoYes, for now.
- mhh__ 2y agoOne day an update will turn it on everywhere. Possibly by accident.
- aceazzameen 2y agoMost PCs don't have the chip capable of running it though. Running it without the chip would probably slow most people's current PCs to a crawl. And if that were to ever happen, it's easy enough to roll back to an earlier update.
- firtoz 2y agoYou can see it as a testbed. Now it's those machines only, and opt-out. Eventually more and more machines will come with the necessary chips. And it will be more of an effort to opt out. Then only professional versions will be able to opt out, through more and more complicated pathways. Eventually it'll just be part of the OS. Meanwhile they'll find ways to sell the side effects of the functionality to other organisations, for example to monitor employees etc, to begin with. Then to governments, why not.
- whalesalad 2y agoI jumped to a Debian 12 based workstation about a year ago and haven’t looked back. It’s been a rock solid workhorse and KDE is quite nice these days.
- Aurornis 2y agoThese articles are always weird because they ignore the most likely next steps for people who don’t want Recall: 1. Don’t turn recall on 2. Switch to Mac Jumping straight to the Linux Desktop deep end after using Windows for years is an unlikely change path for most. These arguments ignore the fact that most Windows users have a lot of Windows-specific apps that they use, such as games. I think the real audience for these articles isn’t Windows users at all. It’s for Linux users to pay themselves on the back for not using Windows.
- zeta0134 2y agoSpeak for yourself I suppose. I can hop between Linux (KDE, Gnome, whatever) and Windows and still feel like my muscle memory for OS interactions and application shortcuts still works. There are minor differences, but things like copy and paste still work properly. When I try to use a Mac, everything is just ... different. CMD instead of Ctrl, buttons on the other side of windows, inconsistent maximize logic between programs, whatever Finder is supposed to be doing with folder navigation. It's certainly learnable with effort, and I can move around the OS competently now with some practice, but it's just unpleasant enough that I'd rather not use it as my daily driver.
- Aurornis 2y agoI wasn’t talking about long time Linux users like yourself. I was referring to people who have been using Windows for years and were looking for something to switch to. > I can hop between Linux (KDE, Gnome, whatever) If you’ve been using Linux long enough to be familiar with KDE and Gnome and even know the difference between them, you’re very firmly a Linux enthusiast user. It’s easy to forget that the average computer user isn’t really interested in the details of their window management. They want the OS to get out of the way and support them, not be something they’re actively invested in.
- notarget137 2y agoI think you overestimate how much people don't really care what OS they are using and familiar with. For non-expierienced people Linux will look as exactly the same black box as the previous one. It is bad for intermediate users that are familiar with the system but not enough to be an administrator.
- triyambakam 2y agoWell, I'm a Linux user of 20 years, but always used a work provided MacBook. However I just bought my own personal MacBook and it feels bittersweet. I'm actually really loving it but feeling guilty about it, as if I've sold out. I'm enjoying everything just working and it is making me reconsider my philosophy on software. I even bought a few paid macOS apps. It feels comfortable.
- giancarlostoro 2y agoYou can always keep a Linux desktop / server around. I have all three major OS’ and will likely never buy another Windows device moving forward. Once my Surface Book 2 cannot update anymore I will retire Windows from my life outside of employers providing me with Windows laptops / workstations.
- tylerflick 2y agoI don't think it's selling out. I think it's just using the best available tool(s) for the job. Inverse point, I have used Mac Mini's as dedicated servers and there is much lacking in the experience compared to a headless Linux box.
- triyambakam 2y agoYeah actually, one of my reasons was that the MacBook is physically a really nice machine. The battery life is so good, the screen, the trackpad... It feels great to dev on it.
- htk 2y agoThe pile of dark patterns in Windows 11 pisses me off a lot more than Recall. Recall is easy to disable, but the rest of the crap in Windows 11 is a constant game of cat and mouse. No respect for the user/client at all.
- nelox 2y agoHe meant to say Unix ;)
- cbsks 2y agoI find it interesting that if a random person had made a program the takes screenshots of their desktop periodically, does OCR, and locally trains an LLM on the output, it would have been a super cool project that nobody would have an issue with. It sucks that we are at the point where we can’t trust large tech companies to do the right thing.
- unpopularopp 2y agoIf only could someone switch to Linux! But there is no Linux. There is Debian, Fedora, Manjaro, Gnome, KDE, Sway, apt, yum, dnf etc. Especially when something is broken and you want to fix it that's the biggest hurdle as a new Linux user. Searching for forums, "how do I do X on Linux?" Oh I mean not Linux but Ubuntu. But MATE or LXQT? etc. It's a bottomless pit. This fragmentation is biggest barrier against the wide adaptation of Linux. I mean Debian and Ubuntu and Arch and openSUSE and Gentoo and. I see Linux as an idea. Or more like an umbrella of ideas that several OSes share. Which sounds good on paper but not enough for end users and for the 99.99% doesn't make any difference. At all. The only thing I personally I recommend to friends who switch to Linux is to use an immutable distro because those are the most breakage resistant ones. Fedora Kinoite or Silverblue are nice. But then we will have Ubuntu Core Desktop soon as well. And other distros. So the wheel of fragmentation rolls forward.
- 29athrowaway 2y agoIf you could only go to the supermarket to buy water. There's Great Value Spring Water and Great Value Purified Water. And Fiji water, and Dasani, etc. It's a bottomless pit. Having to choose between these similar products makes it impossible for me to buy water... said noone ever. The problem is approaching these decisions as if there were final and irreversible decisions from which one answer is right and the other one is wrong followed by eternal doom. That's not the situation at all. Most of these decisions are similar and you can change your mind at any time.
- nessguy 2y agoWater isn't a great example, but decision paralysis at stores from too many options is a thing.
- okanat 2y agoYou make a false assumption that all Linux things are equivalent and provide a good baseline feature set. They are not equivalent, each one misses something that Windows provides out of the box to an extent. Choosing a Linux distro / DE / whatever is not going a supermarket and choosing a bottle of water. It is choosing a bottling factory next to a sewer or bottled distilled water.
- okanat 2y agoHere is the thing. MS Windows has no alternative. There is no other OS that: - is primarily user friendly (no terminal use, good accessibility support, well known patterns, well made paid human translation) - has drivers working out of the box with every single hardware - has long term software support - has long term hardware support - has a healthy closed-source specialized software ecosystem - has good developer support - has not perfect but reasonably future proof API - good interoperability with majority of the other software Once you step out of programming or hobbyist use it is 90% Windows for the use cases one uses a full fledged computer. Yes you can replace many things with a tablet or a smartphone. You can't replace a PC with a tablet for accounting, customer management, CAD, printing, publishing, manufacturing, simulation, advanced reporting, large document processing, centrally controlled IT and many other things. The professional grade software you do those built on Windows, Office and Active Directory. They trust the backwards compatibility and wide range of API and integration Windows ecosystem provides. People don't use computers because they like them. They use them because they do work for their goals. Even for nonprofessional use case Windows still has the best hardware support. For example you cannot use old low DPI monitors with Macs anymore; the text is unreadable. Certain audio workstations doesn't work with ARM chips.
- 29athrowaway 2y ago> You can't replace a PC with a tablet for accounting, customer management, CAD, printing, publishing, manufacturing, simulation, advanced reporting, large document processing, centrally controlled IT and many other things For each one of those examples there's already a superior Linux based choice.
- EA-3167 2y agoAre those choices things that my tech-illiterate parents can use without me maintaining it for them? No.
- xethos 2y agoYou kind of have to pick an argument though. Are your parents tech-illiterate, or are they routinely doing CAD, simulation, and manufacturing work? Being tech-illiterate is where Linux shines. Point them to a browser, set up unattended-upgrades, and you're good for a few years - at which point they'd have needed help installing a Windows update (98 -> XP -> 7 -> 8) had Microsoft not decided that thou shalt update, whether the user wants to or not. Doing any of the above turns it into a hobby. All hobbies require tools, and many software based hobbies require one to learn software. It doesn't seem unreasonable to learn to use publishing software because you want to self-publish a book. Same with learning CAD because you want to learn to 3D print doo-dads and helpful thingamajigs. And if we're discussing office workers? Well, the IT department is paid handsomely for a reason. One of those reasons is to make the OS as close to invisible as possible. Which again, seems reasonable enough to me. If you want to say Linux isn't there, then fine. But please don't derail parent's thread by changing the hypothetical user and moving the goalposts.
- xracy 2y agoI love me some linux distros, and I would sure love to play all of the steam games I like on a real Linux os... And if that's actually improved, I'll sure consider it. And if it's not, I don't really have a choice other than to actually go touch grass.
- ngcc_hk 2y agoSo many conflicting views here not sure where to start. With so many OS (OS/370 …) macOS user interface is easy. So easy to freak with a few folders within folder and size sum etc. And the market is high end enough you got some support. But the linux hostile (even though unlike some comments behind the screen they tried to help it seems) and nvidia absence need to have some windows pc to run linux and windows. For the compatibility, my hp Vr headset will be gone soon. And so will be my windows 10 AI cum VR due to missing some feature. Meta Quest 3 just bought to prepare the lost of VR with most users run on windows and mac … possibility just a knowledge issue as it is a standalone Vr but to run pcvr … Anyway I restrict myself to sdl and gl for cross platform. As said you cannot escape … all will co-exist and each of us (and probably thee is no us) will have to find a way to live in this jungle.
- notamsshill 2y ago[flagged]
- pentagrama 2y agoTo me, the most important way to make more people use Linux is for manufacturers to start shipping PCs and laptops with a hardware-tested, user-friendly, and trusted Linux distro like Ubuntu. Sadly, the "make you consider" part of the article title here is not applicable for most people, but of course is valid and good.
- thedonkeycometh 2y agoThe user experience of Linux fundamentally has not changed in 25 years. Apple has had a decent shot, but their desktop seems to be rotting. Linux had a chance with alternative looking desktops, but was dragged back to the same old same old. The permission systems, elevation, driver management are all archaic. Your best bet is Ubuntu plus, but as another poster said, there is no support. There are no friendly call centers, it's a mass of agro and multiple paths of confusion when looking for a solution for a Linux problem online. Linux is not a replacement, and it probably won't ever be. Ubuntu may come up with a snappy Linux distribution that distances itself enough from the chaos of choice, just like apple did, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I've seen this discussion for twenty years, and the conservative Linux base won't allow popularity.
- jmclnx 2y agoBeen there, done that, got the tee-shirt :) At home I have used Linux (Slackware) for decades. At work, about 20 years ago we were allowed to dump windows and use Linux (RHEL) on our Work Laptop. I switched as soon as I could. About 10 years ago, MACs were allowed. If you are a developer, you should be on Linux or a BSD. It is almost as if Microsoft is trying to kill of Windows. Maybe Finance people have a reason to use Windows, but, the Finance people I work with all when full in on MACs. So, really, people should be off of Windows at this point.