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The wild part about this, at least to me, is the wholesale incompetence demonstrated by Israel in this regard. If I couldn't google the talking points the bots

The wild part about this, at least to me, is the wholesale incompetence demonstrated by Israel in this regard. If I couldn't google the talking points the bots make and see Israeli officials saying the same things, one would think these bots were Iranians acting with the intent to make Israel look bad.

xkcd-sucks 2y ago
Even the spooky spy and torture people choose the crappy low bidding implementation partner
- dr-detroit 2y ago
  [dead]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
refulgentis 2y ago
It's a very interesting thing, it demonstrates something uncomfortable & scary to me as a goy Zionist, who hangs out in a private, predominantly Jewish, space. Note the biggest word in the cloud: UNRWA. All my confirmation bias was in one direction in October. The oddly dissonant and desperate messaging you'd see made things extremely difficult to maintain that, like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see message after message about the evil UN and not say, "uh, did we go off the rails somewhere?" (n.b. this was in a lefty Jewish space, broadly denigrating governmental institutions isn't a usual virtue signal) Going back to the beginning, there's an uncomfortable willingness/ignorance of Overton window widening, in a way that reduces sympathy rather than engenders it, and all of a sudden, otherwise kind people are engaging in rank racism*, glorification of destruction, and extreme conspiracies**. * lots of "no such thing as innocent Palestineans", "Palestineans love redacted", when questioned, turns into "it's not racist if they're not a race, and they aren't because bla bla bla" ** Day after day after day of the bailey, "World Central Kitchen was trying to smuggle terrorists", coupled to the motte "Jose Andres held a barbecue buffet! Lol!"
- sixQuarks 2y ago
  This is an enlightening comment. Thanks for sharing
- myth_drannon 2y ago
  * Assuming the comments came from Israelis/Jews. All the left and right-wing channels are infiltrated with Iranian agents(plenty of news on that topic in Haaretz/Walla). They are causing rift and radicalization in society. That's a solvable tech problem to shut it down. Unfortunately, it's not a priority on a state level because everyone is doing it.
  - cess11 2y ago
    Really? Closest I've seen would be campaigns like this, https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2024-02-04/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-its-admits-staff-was-behind-graphic-gaza-telegram-channel/0000018d-70b4-dd6e-a98d-f4b6a9c00000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2024-0... . Then there's the stuff by IDF soldiers on TikTok, and the stuff settlers put out. I have the impression that the iranians don't need to do stuff like that.
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    The cure for that is worse than the disease. And I think foreign agents manipulating public opinion abroad are vastly overestimated. Propaganda is still very prevalent and the target group is rarely someone other than the domestic population, even in democracies.
- jolj 2y ago
  [flagged]
- bawolff 2y ago
  > like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see message after message about the evil UN and not say, "uh, did we go off the rails somewhere?" I think saying "evil" anything is wrong. But the UN is still a body made up of people, and like everything has its flaws. Its done some things that have turned out great and truly made the world a better place. Its done other things that haven't worked out so well. I certainly don't think it is above criticism.
HL33tibCe7 2y ago
This is presumably just the tip of the iceberg
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
myth_drannon 2y ago
[flagged]
- hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
  Israel is not a democracy, a huge percentage of the populate cannot vote and have no civil rights or any sort. Let’s please stop repeating this falsehood. It’s propaganda and the facts are clear.
  - bitcurious 2y ago
    Can you speak more to your perspective? The only way I can understand your take is to say that the West Bank is rightfully Israeli and therefore its residents should be citizens with voting rights. Are you opposed to an independent Palestinian state?
    - Matl 2y ago
      Not OP, but I am for either giving the Palestinians the same rights as Israelis in a 1 state solution or a an independent Palestinian state but since Israel doesn't seem interested in that it's a cheap talking point because Israel will just crush the Palestinians under its boot until economic sanctions are applied similar to how it was done re South Africa.
      - legolas2412 2y ago
        [flagged]
        Matl 2y ago
        Oh please, this BS no longer works. "Yitzhak Rabin presented the Oslo II Interim Agreement to the Knesset on October 5, 1995, in his final speech to the legislative body. As he spoke, he boldly laid out what he believed to be the future of the Jewish state, boasting that “The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six-Day War.” He also described his vision of a Palestinian “entity” he described as “less than a state.” You can't expect people under brutal military occupation to suddenly start loving their occupiers while under that occupation. You have to end that occupation, period. That means ALL illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank need to move off the settlements too btw. If after an independent Palestinian state is established on the pre-1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, all of West Bank and all of Gaza and then Israel faces violence from that state, then you'll have support of many you don't right now. You can't occupy people forever, or because one of their leaders rejected a deal once etc.
CommanderData 2y ago
At this point they have a wiki or discord somewhere where they share talking points between each other. Someone from their group is clearly thinking ahead and automating all of them out of a job :)
- a_dabbler 2y ago
  They basically have that, it's called Act.IL where they give the users the content and talking points to distribute.
  - miguelazo 2y ago
    James Bamford has written extensively on this. Pathetic that the FBI doesn’t arrest any of them as acting as unregistered foreign agents, but not surprising given the cowardice of DC officials in the face of AIPAC.
gruez 2y ago
What's the incompetence? Having talking points? If you have a group of people trying to advocate for something, isn't "talking points" something you expect would arise organically? I'm sure YIMBYs have "talking points" as well (eg. how it'll reduce housing costs or whatever), but nobody would say that's "wholesale incompetence" for having them. Or maybe it's having it easily searchable? I'm sure if you search around you can find YIMBY bloggers on substack or whatever saying how good YIMBYism is. Aren't those basically "talking points"?

xkcd-sucks 2y ago

Even the spooky spy and torture people choose the crappy low bidding implementation partner

dr-detroit 2y ago
[dead]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

refulgentis 2y ago

It's a very interesting thing, it demonstrates something uncomfortable & scary to me as a goy Zionist, who hangs out in a private, predominantly Jewish, space. Note the biggest word in the cloud: UNRWA. All my confirmation bias was in one direction in October. The oddly dissonant and desperate messaging you'd see made things extremely difficult to maintain that, like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see message after message about the evil UN and not say, "uh, did we go off the rails somewhere?" (n.b. this was in a lefty Jewish space, broadly denigrating governmental institutions isn't a usual virtue signal) Going back to the beginning, there's an uncomfortable willingness/ignorance of Overton window widening, in a way that reduces sympathy rather than engenders it, and all of a sudden, otherwise kind people are engaging in rank racism*, glorification of destruction, and extreme conspiracies**. * lots of "no such thing as innocent Palestineans", "Palestineans love redacted", when questioned, turns into "it's not racist if they're not a race, and they aren't because bla bla bla" ** Day after day after day of the bailey, "World Central Kitchen was trying to smuggle terrorists", coupled to the motte "Jose Andres held a barbecue buffet! Lol!"

sixQuarks 2y ago
This is an enlightening comment. Thanks for sharing
myth_drannon 2y ago
* Assuming the comments came from Israelis/Jews. All the left and right-wing channels are infiltrated with Iranian agents(plenty of news on that topic in Haaretz/Walla). They are causing rift and radicalization in society. That's a solvable tech problem to shut it down. Unfortunately, it's not a priority on a state level because everyone is doing it.
- cess11 2y ago
  Really? Closest I've seen would be campaigns like this, https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2024-02-04/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-its-admits-staff-was-behind-graphic-gaza-telegram-channel/0000018d-70b4-dd6e-a98d-f4b6a9c00000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2024-0... . Then there's the stuff by IDF soldiers on TikTok, and the stuff settlers put out. I have the impression that the iranians don't need to do stuff like that.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  The cure for that is worse than the disease. And I think foreign agents manipulating public opinion abroad are vastly overestimated. Propaganda is still very prevalent and the target group is rarely someone other than the domestic population, even in democracies.
jolj 2y ago
[flagged]
bawolff 2y ago
> like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see message after message about the evil UN and not say, "uh, did we go off the rails somewhere?" I think saying "evil" anything is wrong. But the UN is still a body made up of people, and like everything has its flaws. Its done some things that have turned out great and truly made the world a better place. Its done other things that haven't worked out so well. I certainly don't think it is above criticism.

HL33tibCe7 2y ago

This is presumably just the tip of the iceberg

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

myth_drannon 2y ago

[flagged]

hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
Israel is not a democracy, a huge percentage of the populate cannot vote and have no civil rights or any sort. Let’s please stop repeating this falsehood. It’s propaganda and the facts are clear.
- bitcurious 2y ago
  Can you speak more to your perspective? The only way I can understand your take is to say that the West Bank is rightfully Israeli and therefore its residents should be citizens with voting rights. Are you opposed to an independent Palestinian state?
  - Matl 2y ago
    Not OP, but I am for either giving the Palestinians the same rights as Israelis in a 1 state solution or a an independent Palestinian state but since Israel doesn't seem interested in that it's a cheap talking point because Israel will just crush the Palestinians under its boot until economic sanctions are applied similar to how it was done re South Africa.
    - legolas2412 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - Matl 2y ago
        Oh please, this BS no longer works. "Yitzhak Rabin presented the Oslo II Interim Agreement to the Knesset on October 5, 1995, in his final speech to the legislative body. As he spoke, he boldly laid out what he believed to be the future of the Jewish state, boasting that “The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six-Day War.” He also described his vision of a Palestinian “entity” he described as “less than a state.” You can't expect people under brutal military occupation to suddenly start loving their occupiers while under that occupation. You have to end that occupation, period. That means ALL illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank need to move off the settlements too btw. If after an independent Palestinian state is established on the pre-1967 borders with East Jerusalem as its capital, all of West Bank and all of Gaza and then Israel faces violence from that state, then you'll have support of many you don't right now. You can't occupy people forever, or because one of their leaders rejected a deal once etc.

CommanderData 2y ago

At this point they have a wiki or discord somewhere where they share talking points between each other. Someone from their group is clearly thinking ahead and automating all of them out of a job :)

a_dabbler 2y ago
They basically have that, it's called Act.IL where they give the users the content and talking points to distribute.
- miguelazo 2y ago
  James Bamford has written extensively on this. Pathetic that the FBI doesn’t arrest any of them as acting as unregistered foreign agents, but not surprising given the cowardice of DC officials in the face of AIPAC.

gruez 2y ago

What's the incompetence? Having talking points? If you have a group of people trying to advocate for something, isn't "talking points" something you expect would arise organically? I'm sure YIMBYs have "talking points" as well (eg. how it'll reduce housing costs or whatever), but nobody would say that's "wholesale incompetence" for having them. Or maybe it's having it easily searchable? I'm sure if you search around you can find YIMBY bloggers on substack or whatever saying how good YIMBYism is. Aren't those basically "talking points"?