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The Shadow of Tiananmen Falls on Hong Kong

39 points by cocacola1 2y ago

overflyer 2y ago
[flagged]
- IntelMiner 2y ago
  Did a bot write this comment?
  - throw-the-towel 2y ago
    Actually that looked like romanized Cantonese.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jmclnx 2y ago
The UK and the US ignored the blatant breaking of the Hong Kong Treaty by China. Back then the UK, US and EU should have put heavy sanctions on China. But stopping the 1% from loosing a few dollars.
- ItCouldBeWorse 2y ago
  We didn't even use the time to prepare for the authoritarians going to expansionists wars to stabilize the fragile regimes. Those who benefited from this Geo-strategic blunder, should be taxed heavily to finance the fight against its fallout.
lennydizzy 2y ago
It's so funny to see this after all the protests on US campuses just got crashed by police forces.
- scrubs 2y ago
  Your comment is misleading. First, yes police showed up. Not first or last time. Now, the salient question: were they charged and convicted with subversion, treason, or anything like a felony? Because that's what happen in HK. If US kids trespassed, vandalized, assaulted the police well the US doesn't put up with either. And they are charged commensurately. What I can tell you is the police and political class are not threatened by saying British, slavery or any other touch word from our past. You won't get a subversion conviction for that.
  - fyrn_ 2y ago
    Also some of the HK 47 got life. Not a like to like comparison at all.
    - olsonjeffery 2y ago
      Are you familiar with Georgia’s “Cop City”? This sort of thing does and has happened in the United States, and recently. > Carr obtained indictments against 61 people, alleging violations of the state’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) law, over ongoing efforts to halt construction of Cop City. Indicted activists, including a protest observer, face steep penalties of up to 20 years in prison. Three bail fund organizers face additional money laundering charges, and five people also face state domestic terrorism charges. [0] Is it ok because the prosecutor isn’t seeking life sentences? Do you contend that the activists are being treated fairly as one expects in a democratic society that values rule of law? Is it acceptable because America is 66% less repressive than China and against a narrower range of views (like socialism/communism, see Debs et al)? Have you really even interrogated your positions? [0] https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/rico-and-domestic-terrorism-charges-against-cop-city-activists-send-a-chilling-message https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/rico-and-domestic-terr...
pessimizer 2y ago
[flagged]
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Whether or not the citizens of Hong Kong had more or less freedom under an undemocratic British government is an interesting question.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Whether or not the citizens of Hong Kong had more or less freedom under an undemocratic British government Whether they had more freedom under their democracy is not.
rKarpinski 2y ago
Up until 1997 wasn't the governor of Hong Kong just appointed by the English monarch [1]? Has it flaws but elections where "Hong Kong’s chief executive be drawn from candidates vetted by Beijing" actually seems closer to self determination [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Hong_Kong
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > wasn't the governor of Hong Kong just appointed by the English monarch In the same way Australia, Britain, Canada and New Zealand’s prime ministers serve at the King’s pleasure. It’s ceremonial, much like the monarchy itself. > elections where "Hong Kong’s chief executive be drawn from candidates vetted by Beijing" actually seems closer to self determination They had a full democracy after 1997. That was self determination.
  - rKarpinski 2y ago
    The wikipedia page does not point to being a ceremonial role. It says "most of the civil functions of this office went to the chief executive of Hong Kong" and "no serious attempt was made to introduce representative government, until the final years of British rule." [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Hong_Kong
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Hong Kong wasn’t a democracy before 1997. But it also wasn’t under the Crown per se after WWII [1]. It was a British colony, ruled partly by increasingly-elected councils and executives, including the Governor, appointed by London (not the monarch, except in name) with consultation with the locals. The last time the Hong Kongese rioted against the British was in 1967 [2]. There isn’t a comparison between British Hong Kong circa 1990 and the present iron grip Beijing holds over it; freedom of speech, for instance, prevailed as did the rule of law. There is much less comparison one can make between free Hong Kong after 1997 and the mess Xi has turned it into today. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Hong_Kong https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Hong_Kong [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Hong_Kong_riots https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Hong_Kong_riots
nojvek 2y ago
https://archive.ph/GjuYO https://archive.ph/GjuYO

39 points by cocacola1 2y ago

overflyer 2y ago

[flagged]

IntelMiner 2y ago
Did a bot write this comment?
- throw-the-towel 2y ago
  Actually that looked like romanized Cantonese.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jmclnx 2y ago

The UK and the US ignored the blatant breaking of the Hong Kong Treaty by China. Back then the UK, US and EU should have put heavy sanctions on China. But stopping the 1% from loosing a few dollars.

ItCouldBeWorse 2y ago
We didn't even use the time to prepare for the authoritarians going to expansionists wars to stabilize the fragile regimes. Those who benefited from this Geo-strategic blunder, should be taxed heavily to finance the fight against its fallout.

lennydizzy 2y ago

It's so funny to see this after all the protests on US campuses just got crashed by police forces.

scrubs 2y ago
Your comment is misleading. First, yes police showed up. Not first or last time. Now, the salient question: were they charged and convicted with subversion, treason, or anything like a felony? Because that's what happen in HK. If US kids trespassed, vandalized, assaulted the police well the US doesn't put up with either. And they are charged commensurately. What I can tell you is the police and political class are not threatened by saying British, slavery or any other touch word from our past. You won't get a subversion conviction for that.
- fyrn_ 2y ago
  Also some of the HK 47 got life. Not a like to like comparison at all.
  - olsonjeffery 2y ago
    Are you familiar with Georgia’s “Cop City”? This sort of thing does and has happened in the United States, and recently. > Carr obtained indictments against 61 people, alleging violations of the state’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) law, over ongoing efforts to halt construction of Cop City. Indicted activists, including a protest observer, face steep penalties of up to 20 years in prison. Three bail fund organizers face additional money laundering charges, and five people also face state domestic terrorism charges. [0] Is it ok because the prosecutor isn’t seeking life sentences? Do you contend that the activists are being treated fairly as one expects in a democratic society that values rule of law? Is it acceptable because America is 66% less repressive than China and against a narrower range of views (like socialism/communism, see Debs et al)? Have you really even interrogated your positions? [0] https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/rico-and-domestic-terrorism-charges-against-cop-city-activists-send-a-chilling-message https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/rico-and-domestic-terr...

pessimizer 2y ago

[flagged]

ethbr1 2y ago
Whether or not the citizens of Hong Kong had more or less freedom under an undemocratic British government is an interesting question.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Whether or not the citizens of Hong Kong had more or less freedom under an undemocratic British government Whether they had more freedom under their democracy is not.

rKarpinski 2y ago

Up until 1997 wasn't the governor of Hong Kong just appointed by the English monarch [1]? Has it flaws but elections where "Hong Kong’s chief executive be drawn from candidates vetted by Beijing" actually seems closer to self determination [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Hong_Kong

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> wasn't the governor of Hong Kong just appointed by the English monarch In the same way Australia, Britain, Canada and New Zealand’s prime ministers serve at the King’s pleasure. It’s ceremonial, much like the monarchy itself. > elections where "Hong Kong’s chief executive be drawn from candidates vetted by Beijing" actually seems closer to self determination They had a full democracy after 1997. That was self determination.
- rKarpinski 2y ago
  The wikipedia page does not point to being a ceremonial role. It says "most of the civil functions of this office went to the chief executive of Hong Kong" and "no serious attempt was made to introduce representative government, until the final years of British rule." [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Hong_Kong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_Hong_Kong
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Hong Kong wasn’t a democracy before 1997. But it also wasn’t under the Crown per se after WWII [1]. It was a British colony, ruled partly by increasingly-elected councils and executives, including the Governor, appointed by London (not the monarch, except in name) with consultation with the locals. The last time the Hong Kongese rioted against the British was in 1967 [2]. There isn’t a comparison between British Hong Kong circa 1990 and the present iron grip Beijing holds over it; freedom of speech, for instance, prevailed as did the rule of law. There is much less comparison one can make between free Hong Kong after 1997 and the mess Xi has turned it into today. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Hong_Kong https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Hong_Kong [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Hong_Kong_riots https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Hong_Kong_riots

nojvek 2y ago

https://archive.ph/GjuYO https://archive.ph/GjuYO