6 ms·

Some Americans have stopped tipping. Should you do the same?

42 points by Anon84 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
angmarsbane 2y ago
I tip at sit down restaurants, the coffee shop where I'm a regular, valets, and people who touch my body (hair stylist, massage therapist, waxing etc). That's it, that's the list.
- uberman 2y ago
  I pretty much only tip at sit down places now. I dont tip at the coffee shop, but then again I just drink black coffee so there is nothing to do other than fill up the cup and I'm not going to tip for that. Why do you tip at the coffee shop, but say not at a fast food joint? It seems to me there is as much work and skill assembling a burger as foaming milk.
  - angmarsbane 2y ago
    I tip at the coffee shop because I go frequently enough to be friendly with the staff. It's a positive interaction for me so I tip for that.
    - beezle 2y ago
      When I was a regular at a breakfast shop (it wasn't a "coffee shop") it was well before this automated payment terminal checkout forced tip stuff. I did not tip at all but instead would gift the counter staff mini champagne bottles during the holidays.
  - defen 2y ago
    It's important that you look the barista in the eye when you select 0% tip. You're not doing something shameful, you're doing something powerful.
    - paulmd 2y ago
      As you pick up your coffee be sure to thank them for their body’s water. It is a sign of deep respect.
- fragmede 2y ago
  you don't tip your landlord? how is he supposed to pay his mortgage?
  - throwup238 2y ago
    By starting an OnlyFans page just like everyone else.
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  Love your policy. I think it’s a good stating point for my own. Do you mind sharing amounts if you are comfortable? I’m 15% for good service at sit down restaurants as that’s how I was raised, 20% for hair stylists so I can build a positive long term relationship. Avoid valeting as much as possible but the fee should be the tip for that IMO
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Standard tip for "good" service at a restaurant used to be 15%. At some point it went up to 18, then 20, and I've been to places where the "default" on the payment terminal is 25%. If the stylist owns the salon, no tip. If the stylist is renting a chair there, then tip according to your motivations.
RadixDLT 2y ago
you should not tip, you are just rewarding those greedy owners https://archive.is/NGD9M https://archive.is/NGD9M
- beezle 2y ago
  I think these days you are rewarding the greedy payment systems.
WheelsAtLarge 2y ago
No topping is good in theory but it won't stick. Restaurants have tried it and no one is happy with it. Customers get higher prices. Many employees feel they can make more money with tips and employers have to pay higher salaries. What's becoming a problem is that many businesses that weren't tip-related are suddenly requesting tips for service. Those are the ones that people should not tip. There's no need to expand the number of services that need to be tipped.
- nikau 2y ago
  > Customers get higher prices Well not if you factor in not having to pay a tip.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- whycome 2y ago
  > What's becoming a problem is that many businesses that weren't tip-related are suddenly requesting tips for service. Who gets to decide? I think the only absurd thing is making it a percentage of the cost. Why do I tip someone more for doing the same job because my meal/service is more expensive?
  - beezle 2y ago
    Ask your real estate agent that question too
    - whycome 2y ago
      Right?! Isn’t there a current lawsuit looking to change the absurd practice of commissions for house sales as they currently stand?
  - akira2501 2y ago
    It's often not the same job behind the scenes. Your more expensive meal typically requires more effort to prepare. The other function of cost is drinks and if you order more drinks then you require more service.
ssss11 2y ago
The restaurant owners in America should pay their staff a liveable wage, like restaurant owners do in every other country. Tips not required.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  I agree. But I don’t think you’ve worked at restaurants in so many countries to make that statement even in general, let alone universally. Restaurant workers are underpaid in most countries, especially in Asia. Servers in Beijing used to sleep on the floor of their restaurants since their wages could barely afford to actually rent anything in the city.
- adastra22 2y ago
  Restaurant owners have tried no-tip policy. They can’t get good servers because they’d rather work for tips. I know servers who make six figures from tips alone…
  - demosthanos 2y ago
    This is known as a market failure and it's what the government is for. It will likely never happen, but we need legislation to end tipping in an entire market all at once.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      You can't really prevent one person (a customer) from handing another person (the server) some money as recognition of good service, or because he thinks the server is cute, or because it makes him feel good, or whatever.
      - demosthanos 2y ago
        But you can remove the laws that allow restaurants to pay servers less than minimum wage and that thereby make tipping effectively mandatory.
zero-sharp 2y ago
I love it when I get asked to tip upfront right as I place my order. I thought the point of the tip was to reward good service.
- tflol 2y ago
  I've seen this enforced by the number of persons in your party (say, 6 minimum). If you come in with a ton of people at an establishment that expects tips, make a ton of noise, traumatize the front staff, completely destroy the place, then leave and tip 5%? I like the idea of an establishment financially protecting their employees that way.
  - iJohnDoe 2y ago
    You make a good point, but that’s not what they are referencing. To-go places are asking for a tip on the payment terminal.
  - justapassenger 2y ago
    [dead]
  - ok_dad 2y ago
    > financially protecting their employees They could just pay a living wage like most other countries where tipping is not a thing.
  - lern_too_spel 2y ago
    Mandatory service charges cannot be counted as tip in California and must be reported as restaurant income. Also, the tipped minimum wage is no different from non-tipped minimum wage in California.
  - kazinator 2y ago
    People deserve to be compensated extra for an hour of not being able to lean against the counter, playing with their phone? It's traumatizing to have a lot of business and have to work? The standard in business is that more volume brings about discounts. If you buy a larger order of parts from a supplier, your unit price is less than if you buy a small number. The only way surcharges for groups make sense is that groups can sometimes tie up the place due to staying longer, but that's a stretch. Groups also have a way of finishing up and getting the hell out, not much slower than someone dining alone. Every group lunch I remember, there have always been drinks, all round. Almost everyone has at least one glass of beer, save for the odd teetotalers and designated drivers. I will typically not order a beer if dining alone, or just with family. You have a big group, with everyone ordering food and most of them drinks (easy money) yet want an extra tax on top.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I’d like to see tipping just banned outright so we can do away with discriminatory compensation (tips can vary by race and other factors), and have proper living wages that are guaranteed by employers. It’s gotten to an absurd point where everyone expects tipping now - like plumbers and movers and other stuff. Soon I expect my bank will show a tip prompt on their website.
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  I agree that banning tipping should be considered. I haven’t seen it mentioned in this thread yet but the payment terminals of course benefit from the tipping options because the transaction amount grows as does they amount they get from the percentage based portion of their transaction fee. If I had to guess, adding this option for all restaurants probably increases their amount processed by 3-5%
  - wyre 2y ago
    Point of Sale payment processors need to have competitive rates, maybe there are some with fees up to 5%, but the most I’ve seen are at or under 3%
    - kylehotchkiss 2y ago
      I didn't mean their cut was that high, I'm estimating the total amount $ processed raised by that percentage due to easier and more persistent tipping options
shawn_w 2y ago
Who can afford to leave a tip these days?
iJohnDoe 2y ago
The new trend in the US is to ask for a tip on the payment terminal before you can enter your card for payment. Starbucks does this and it’s tricky in the drive through when you’re trying to be quick. Trying to figure out how not to add a tip takes time so you just select one of the three tip amounts on the screen to complete the transaction. Other places are doing this too.
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  Weirdly the solution for Starbucks here is to use their app’s barcode for payment; then tipping is buried. As much as I enjoy Starbucks, it’s such a commodity that it seems odd to tip for. They aren’t really bringing anything to you or cleaning up after you.
  - underlogic 2y ago
    They do have well designed clean bathrooms and buying a couple of cups of coffee you can work all day on a laptop. Much cheaper than an office without commitment although many distractions. Is it me or does Starbucks coffee taste burnt? I prefer 711 on taste every time. They need to fix that
    - kylehotchkiss 2y ago
      Which Starbucks have you been to? All the ones I go to have gross bathrooms topped with whatever heavy chemical smell they use to etch the sins off the bathroom floor with. I totally hear you on the taste, it comes off as smoky to me. The blond roast espresso is more mild on that.
      - underlogic 2y ago
        The Palo Alto Starbucks bathrooms are pretty nice
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  I pay cash, avoids the terminal entirely.
zaphirplane 2y ago
I wonder if physiology is at play here. objectively setting the price at .95x and giving the buyer the ability to incentivize the quality of service by tipping is better than setting the price at 1.15 regardless of the quality of service. Tipping gives the buyer an ability to incentivize the service provider Usual disclaimer of this being a thought exercise
ars 2y ago
If I use a delivery service that charges a delivery fee (whether on each order or a yearly membership) I tip 1% on the order. That's it. That delivery fee is supposed to pay the delivery drivers. It's not my responsibility to help some company figure out their payroll. Likewise I do not tip Uber and the like because I'm already paying them to drive me someplace. The only place I might actually trip would be a sit-down restaurant with tableside service. And I tip not based on the value of what I ordered, but based on how much time the server spent attending to my needs. If you took my order, and then delivered it, and that's about it for my interaction, don't expect me to tip a lot - you didn't do a lot of work. Am I demanding and needed all kinds of whatever? I'll tip more.
- akira2501 2y ago
  > It's not my responsibility to help some company figure out their payroll. If you're concerned about their ethics in paying their employees why would you continue to use the service? Aside from the ethics why would you use a service where quality is guaranteed to be minimal? > but based on how much time the server spent attending to my needs. Putting it in a vehicle and driving it to you at home does not count? > you didn't do a lot of work Have you ever delivered food for a living?
  - ars 2y ago
    > why would you continue to use the service? Is it slave labor or something? Why shouldn't I use the service? > where quality is guaranteed to be minimal? You think if I don't pay a tip I'll have minimal quality? I strongly disagree. Companies should just pay regular wages instead of random wages based on the generosity of strangers. If people stopped tipping, companies would have a hard time recruiting, they would raise wages to get enough employees and we would stop this farce. > Putting it in a vehicle and driving it to you at home does not count? No, that's the basics of the job. Attending to my needs would be something above that. To bring it back to the server: Taking my order and bringing the food is the basics. If you want a tip there needs to be something above and beyond that. Are you planning on giving a tip to DMV agent who renews your drivers license? What about the checkout clerk? Do you tip your mailman? This who business of tipping because food is involved is utterly pathetic. There's nothing actually different about the a food delivery driver vs a mailman. > Have you ever delivered food for a living? I have not, but as I said: bringing the food to the table if the basic job. Doing a lot of work means mental work, not physical. i.e. you paid special attention and anticipated needs, i.e. you are more than just acting as a glorified robot. Put another way: If someone could automate your job with a computer to take orders, and a conveyor belt to deliver them, that's not tip-worthy. If your job is performed by tons of other people who do not get a tip, you're also not getting a tip. (i.e. food delivery vs mailman) A tip is for something extra. I had a mechanic who managed a very difficult tire patch repair for me - saved me on buying a new tire. I gave him a tip because he did something beyond the norm - normally they would not repair that tire.
demosthanos 2y ago
> Get takeout. No reasonable person expects you to tip your restaurant worker when you get takeout. So one way to avoid leaving a gratuity is to get your next restaurant meal to go. This is a way to avoid tipping if and only if you're comfortable manually selecting "no tip". It doesn't matter if you're ordering online or at the counter, you will be prompted for a tip these days when ordering takeout, often with some obscene percentage preselected that you have to opt out of. As multiple people noted in the article, this tendency has done more to exhaust people of tipping than anything else. A tip jar is nonconfrontational and just gives an easy way to give extra if you want to. But these terminals are turning tipping into something that is actively stressful for a lot of people. The only bright side I see is that by completely exhausting everyone they might be responsible for ending the practice everywhere and forcing restaurants to pay a wage.
- nickthegreek 2y ago
  2 days ago I ordered online, tipped and paid online. When I arrived I had to sign a receipt that had a line labeled Additional Tip. The system knew I had tipped but wanted to try squeeze me again!
  - eddd-ddde 2y ago
    Tipping _before_ receiving the service is beyond insane. How do you know how much to tip if there's nothing to evaluate yet?
    - bitshiftfaced 2y ago
      I think it's permissable in cases where you'd normally pay before the service and it's a type of service that is a low-dollar amount and something you'd do frequently instead of a one-off. An example would be a sandwich shop you go to every week. The reasoning would be that since it's cheap and frequent, those receiving the tip have an incentive today to deliver good service because they'd like you to continue tipping in the future.
      - 2y ago
neilv 2y ago
The article ends with: > “Tipping should be based on exceptional service,” she says. “It’s not an entitlement.” For sit-down restaurants, tipping is a cultural convention that was adopted long ago, and has been baked into pricing, wages, and sometimes even taxes. Someone might make an argument that it'd be better to have a different cultural convention. But simply ignoring the actual cultural convention would be a big deal, adversely affecting the livelihoods of many low-income people.
- wetpaws 2y ago
  [dead]
- kaliqt 2y ago
  The solution is to reverse it in my opinion. Tipping has ruined the service industry, for customers and workers.
  - neilv 2y ago
    If the convention is changed, that's fine. Simply ignoring the convention, as some do, seems ruthless.
    - MostlyStable 2y ago
      There is no way to change it other than to ignore it. Are you imagining some cultural council you can appeal to to change it? The culture is nothing but thousands of individual decisions.
      - neilv 2y ago
        > There is no way to change it other than to ignore it. Couldn't one change the culture without freeloading off of where it's baked in? For example, publicize your preferred convention, and then give your business to restaurants that decide to satisfy the demand for that convention. If people don't flock to those restaurants, then maybe that wasn't a viable cultural change. Or maybe the objection wasn't impassioned philosophical position on the optimal economic model, but rather that they simply wanted to pay less, and blaming a questionable custom was a convenient loophole.
AndrewKemendo 2y ago
I just ask the person how much they need/want if they are present and only give cash/venmo so it cannot be diverted to management, taxes or corporate. Like I’ll say “what would be an amount that will solve a problem you’re worried about?” Usually it’s just “oh whatever you think” so I just do whatever I feel in that case and move on. Sometimes it’s zero, and sometimes its $200 to the Uber driver with pictures of his sick daughter all over his car. If the point is to compensate the person because they are wage slave then I feel obligated to directly compensate the employee bypassing the structure they are in Tip pools are more complicated and I generally ask how the pool is split before deciding It’s such a scam but most people who are stuck in it don’t have many options
- throwup238 2y ago
  > sometimes its $200 to the Uber driver with pictures of his sick daughter all over his car. Oh man, that's what I'm doing next. Are there any sick-child-as-a-service providers or am I going to have to go source my own? Can I just use stock photos? Would you tip more if there was a screen in the back seat playing a slideshow of the sick child with a Sarah McLachlan song in the background? How about a live chat function where you can talk to it before you tip? Maybe an achievement system for repeat customers? Fill out your punch card and you get to inject the cyclophosphamide! What if we had the state reclassify our cabs as foster homes and put a foster kid in every front passenger seat? Do they have to be terminally ill or can we just shave them and feed them a diet of lead paint chips? Sorry this startup idea got away from me. I'm calling it Munchausen.ai
  - AndrewKemendo 2y ago
    I’m sorry you have to walk around with that level of fear, distrust and anxiety in your head that it has deteriorated your ability to differentiate. Good luck
    - throwup238 2y ago
      I didn't mean to imply your driver was scamming you, just making a joke about Changing the World™ by monetizing and soullessly destroying every social interaction, Silicon Valley style :-) I had hoped the absurdism of a cyclophosphemide punch card or converting a taxi cab to foster home would have given it away
underlogic 2y ago
If you stop tipping they'll spit in your food or rate you down on Uber. Once I didn't tip at a semi upscale restaurant and the waiter followed our group down the street and asked me why not quite upset. I explained the food took three hours to be served and was terrible but he already knew that, the point was embarrassment. You have to tip. It's not really a request. That said, a custom gifting a few dollars to those working brutal menial jobs isn't such a tragedy. What we need is a mechanism where servers can be tipped directly bypassing management. Could be just a QR code badge linked to stripe fast checkout. I imagine a waiter living off Costco hotdogs and soda standing eight hours a day holding a jug of ice water and a game face with the heat of the kitchen to his back wondering if he can make both rent and the car payments. Watching groups of businessmen and beautiful women eat $300 meals leaving half of the food uneaten. It's emasculating, cruel. There needs to be something like the tipping custom. That kind if experience can build real resentment
- sunnybeetroot 2y ago
  I would say we need wages to not rely on tips to supplement a wage to a liveable income.
  - alexpc201 2y ago
    Basically, the issue of wages is not my problem, so this whole discussion becomes absurd. Do I want to leave compensation for the worker? Does he deserve an extra out of my pocket? Did he do something for me that exceeds his job functions and I can appreciate? If he brings me a plate of food for which I'm going to be charged, it is unlikely to fall under these conditions.
    - underlogic 2y ago
      It is your problem - that's your meal he's spitting in. Justified or not
      - archagon 2y ago
        Nobody is going to spit in your food, but staff will think you’re an asshole (and sometimes confront you).
bfung 2y ago
It’s not that no-tipping policy won’t stick; it’s that it’s allowed by the tax code. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped The code allows for a lower minimum wage when tips are involved. Getting rid of this complication in the tax code would make owning restaurants harder, but fix other societal issues. Can’t say it’s be an easy decision or trade off to make - a lot of restaurants wouldn’t be able to stay in business and those who like eating out would have a lot less and more expensive choices.
neilv 2y ago
A small side benefit to tipping... During early Covid, when I'd get grocery delivery from a company that happened to be known for often treating employees badly, I'd tip much more than the default. Because they deserved it and more. But a side benefit was the amusement of imagining the CEO getting pissed off that a worker was getting paid more than the minimum that the company had calculated it could get away with. (Well, it turns out the company was stealing tips, so maybe the CEO had the last laugh, but I tried.)
- from-nibly 2y ago
  And thats always the case. If you got enough tips to make a wage that you want and got no salary youd still do it. What an employer pays an employee is just enough to keep them doing the job. It doesn't matter if the money comes from tips or wage it's all the same. Which means the company will be the one who benefits from a tip every time it's money they don't have to pay the employee no matter what.
  - neilv 2y ago
    Fortunately, the market isn't perfectly efficient, and there are applicable laws.
- oliwarner 2y ago
  That's some bad activism. If you think a company is mistreating their employees, don't use that company. At all. The only tip you should be giving employees is to find a better job. No CEO is getting bent because somebody else is paying their employees' wages. If anything, you've enabled them to continue treating workers poorly for longer.
  - neilv 2y ago
    Point taken about boycotting bad companies, but sometimes it's harder than other times. The side benefit of tipping well was amusement from imagining the CEO (of a savagely metrics-driven, stack-ranking, generally jerky) company being so miserably ruthless that they're demanding reports on tipping, and getting angry when there's employees/contractors who they can't squeeze any harder. Not that they're actually getting angry.
lewdev 2y ago
Should I? I tip out of guilt and conforming to social norms. I don't want to look like an asshole too. I'm getting annoyed by these apps that don't give 15% as an option. They put 22% as the first option, which is insane. And it's no fault to the waiter, it's the default setting that was configured by the store. I had to calculate roughly what 15% was quickly and accept the payment. At that point, maybe I should have just put 0% but then I'd be an asshole, right?
bitwize 2y ago
No. Until the culture changes and merchants start building service costs into their prices and paying service personnel living wages, tip them. Tip them generously. 20% is table stakes for restaurant service; for things like hairstyling you want to tip around 50%.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
alexpc201 2y ago
Did you go the extra mile? There you have the answer if you deserve a tip or not. Nothing else matters.
nunez 2y ago
Until restaurants are forced to catch up with minimum wage laws, I am more than happy to tip. I need the money less than the people who made the food or whatever for me. Despite this, I'd prefer to patron no-tip businesses because it is more likely that the employees working them are treated and compensated more fairly.
plutoh28 2y ago
Tipping has transformed from an occasional courtesy to a daily exploitation of people’s guilt and social anxiety

42 points by Anon84 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

I tip at sit down restaurants, the coffee shop where I'm a regular, valets, and people who touch my body (hair stylist, massage therapist, waxing etc). That's it, that's the list.

uberman 2y ago
I pretty much only tip at sit down places now. I dont tip at the coffee shop, but then again I just drink black coffee so there is nothing to do other than fill up the cup and I'm not going to tip for that. Why do you tip at the coffee shop, but say not at a fast food joint? It seems to me there is as much work and skill assembling a burger as foaming milk.
- angmarsbane 2y ago
  I tip at the coffee shop because I go frequently enough to be friendly with the staff. It's a positive interaction for me so I tip for that.
  - beezle 2y ago
    When I was a regular at a breakfast shop (it wasn't a "coffee shop") it was well before this automated payment terminal checkout forced tip stuff. I did not tip at all but instead would gift the counter staff mini champagne bottles during the holidays.
- defen 2y ago
  It's important that you look the barista in the eye when you select 0% tip. You're not doing something shameful, you're doing something powerful.
  - paulmd 2y ago
    As you pick up your coffee be sure to thank them for their body’s water. It is a sign of deep respect.
fragmede 2y ago
you don't tip your landlord? how is he supposed to pay his mortgage?
- throwup238 2y ago
  By starting an OnlyFans page just like everyone else.
kylehotchkiss 2y ago
Love your policy. I think it’s a good stating point for my own. Do you mind sharing amounts if you are comfortable? I’m 15% for good service at sit down restaurants as that’s how I was raised, 20% for hair stylists so I can build a positive long term relationship. Avoid valeting as much as possible but the fee should be the tip for that IMO
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Standard tip for "good" service at a restaurant used to be 15%. At some point it went up to 18, then 20, and I've been to places where the "default" on the payment terminal is 25%. If the stylist owns the salon, no tip. If the stylist is renting a chair there, then tip according to your motivations.

RadixDLT 2y ago

you should not tip, you are just rewarding those greedy owners https://archive.is/NGD9M https://archive.is/NGD9M

beezle 2y ago
I think these days you are rewarding the greedy payment systems.

WheelsAtLarge 2y ago

No topping is good in theory but it won't stick. Restaurants have tried it and no one is happy with it. Customers get higher prices. Many employees feel they can make more money with tips and employers have to pay higher salaries. What's becoming a problem is that many businesses that weren't tip-related are suddenly requesting tips for service. Those are the ones that people should not tip. There's no need to expand the number of services that need to be tipped.

nikau 2y ago
> Customers get higher prices Well not if you factor in not having to pay a tip.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
whycome 2y ago
> What's becoming a problem is that many businesses that weren't tip-related are suddenly requesting tips for service. Who gets to decide? I think the only absurd thing is making it a percentage of the cost. Why do I tip someone more for doing the same job because my meal/service is more expensive?
- beezle 2y ago
  Ask your real estate agent that question too
  - whycome 2y ago
    Right?! Isn’t there a current lawsuit looking to change the absurd practice of commissions for house sales as they currently stand?
- akira2501 2y ago
  It's often not the same job behind the scenes. Your more expensive meal typically requires more effort to prepare. The other function of cost is drinks and if you order more drinks then you require more service.

ssss11 2y ago

The restaurant owners in America should pay their staff a liveable wage, like restaurant owners do in every other country. Tips not required.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
I agree. But I don’t think you’ve worked at restaurants in so many countries to make that statement even in general, let alone universally. Restaurant workers are underpaid in most countries, especially in Asia. Servers in Beijing used to sleep on the floor of their restaurants since their wages could barely afford to actually rent anything in the city.
adastra22 2y ago
Restaurant owners have tried no-tip policy. They can’t get good servers because they’d rather work for tips. I know servers who make six figures from tips alone…
- demosthanos 2y ago
  This is known as a market failure and it's what the government is for. It will likely never happen, but we need legislation to end tipping in an entire market all at once.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    You can't really prevent one person (a customer) from handing another person (the server) some money as recognition of good service, or because he thinks the server is cute, or because it makes him feel good, or whatever.
    - demosthanos 2y ago
      But you can remove the laws that allow restaurants to pay servers less than minimum wage and that thereby make tipping effectively mandatory.

zero-sharp 2y ago

I love it when I get asked to tip upfront right as I place my order. I thought the point of the tip was to reward good service.

tflol 2y ago
I've seen this enforced by the number of persons in your party (say, 6 minimum). If you come in with a ton of people at an establishment that expects tips, make a ton of noise, traumatize the front staff, completely destroy the place, then leave and tip 5%? I like the idea of an establishment financially protecting their employees that way.
- iJohnDoe 2y ago
  You make a good point, but that’s not what they are referencing. To-go places are asking for a tip on the payment terminal.
- justapassenger 2y ago
  [dead]
- ok_dad 2y ago
  > financially protecting their employees They could just pay a living wage like most other countries where tipping is not a thing.
- lern_too_spel 2y ago
  Mandatory service charges cannot be counted as tip in California and must be reported as restaurant income. Also, the tipped minimum wage is no different from non-tipped minimum wage in California.
- kazinator 2y ago
  People deserve to be compensated extra for an hour of not being able to lean against the counter, playing with their phone? It's traumatizing to have a lot of business and have to work? The standard in business is that more volume brings about discounts. If you buy a larger order of parts from a supplier, your unit price is less than if you buy a small number. The only way surcharges for groups make sense is that groups can sometimes tie up the place due to staying longer, but that's a stretch. Groups also have a way of finishing up and getting the hell out, not much slower than someone dining alone. Every group lunch I remember, there have always been drinks, all round. Almost everyone has at least one glass of beer, save for the odd teetotalers and designated drivers. I will typically not order a beer if dining alone, or just with family. You have a big group, with everyone ordering food and most of them drinks (easy money) yet want an extra tax on top.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

I’d like to see tipping just banned outright so we can do away with discriminatory compensation (tips can vary by race and other factors), and have proper living wages that are guaranteed by employers. It’s gotten to an absurd point where everyone expects tipping now - like plumbers and movers and other stuff. Soon I expect my bank will show a tip prompt on their website.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago
I agree that banning tipping should be considered. I haven’t seen it mentioned in this thread yet but the payment terminals of course benefit from the tipping options because the transaction amount grows as does they amount they get from the percentage based portion of their transaction fee. If I had to guess, adding this option for all restaurants probably increases their amount processed by 3-5%
- wyre 2y ago
  Point of Sale payment processors need to have competitive rates, maybe there are some with fees up to 5%, but the most I’ve seen are at or under 3%
  - kylehotchkiss 2y ago
    I didn't mean their cut was that high, I'm estimating the total amount $ processed raised by that percentage due to easier and more persistent tipping options

shawn_w 2y ago

Who can afford to leave a tip these days?

iJohnDoe 2y ago

The new trend in the US is to ask for a tip on the payment terminal before you can enter your card for payment. Starbucks does this and it’s tricky in the drive through when you’re trying to be quick. Trying to figure out how not to add a tip takes time so you just select one of the three tip amounts on the screen to complete the transaction. Other places are doing this too.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago
Weirdly the solution for Starbucks here is to use their app’s barcode for payment; then tipping is buried. As much as I enjoy Starbucks, it’s such a commodity that it seems odd to tip for. They aren’t really bringing anything to you or cleaning up after you.
- underlogic 2y ago
  They do have well designed clean bathrooms and buying a couple of cups of coffee you can work all day on a laptop. Much cheaper than an office without commitment although many distractions. Is it me or does Starbucks coffee taste burnt? I prefer 711 on taste every time. They need to fix that
  - kylehotchkiss 2y ago
    Which Starbucks have you been to? All the ones I go to have gross bathrooms topped with whatever heavy chemical smell they use to etch the sins off the bathroom floor with. I totally hear you on the taste, it comes off as smoky to me. The blond roast espresso is more mild on that.
    - underlogic 2y ago
      The Palo Alto Starbucks bathrooms are pretty nice
SoftTalker 2y ago
I pay cash, avoids the terminal entirely.

zaphirplane 2y ago

I wonder if physiology is at play here. objectively setting the price at .95x and giving the buyer the ability to incentivize the quality of service by tipping is better than setting the price at 1.15 regardless of the quality of service. Tipping gives the buyer an ability to incentivize the service provider Usual disclaimer of this being a thought exercise

ars 2y ago

If I use a delivery service that charges a delivery fee (whether on each order or a yearly membership) I tip 1% on the order. That's it. That delivery fee is supposed to pay the delivery drivers. It's not my responsibility to help some company figure out their payroll. Likewise I do not tip Uber and the like because I'm already paying them to drive me someplace. The only place I might actually trip would be a sit-down restaurant with tableside service. And I tip not based on the value of what I ordered, but based on how much time the server spent attending to my needs. If you took my order, and then delivered it, and that's about it for my interaction, don't expect me to tip a lot - you didn't do a lot of work. Am I demanding and needed all kinds of whatever? I'll tip more.

akira2501 2y ago
> It's not my responsibility to help some company figure out their payroll. If you're concerned about their ethics in paying their employees why would you continue to use the service? Aside from the ethics why would you use a service where quality is guaranteed to be minimal? > but based on how much time the server spent attending to my needs. Putting it in a vehicle and driving it to you at home does not count? > you didn't do a lot of work Have you ever delivered food for a living?
- ars 2y ago
  > why would you continue to use the service? Is it slave labor or something? Why shouldn't I use the service? > where quality is guaranteed to be minimal? You think if I don't pay a tip I'll have minimal quality? I strongly disagree. Companies should just pay regular wages instead of random wages based on the generosity of strangers. If people stopped tipping, companies would have a hard time recruiting, they would raise wages to get enough employees and we would stop this farce. > Putting it in a vehicle and driving it to you at home does not count? No, that's the basics of the job. Attending to my needs would be something above that. To bring it back to the server: Taking my order and bringing the food is the basics. If you want a tip there needs to be something above and beyond that. Are you planning on giving a tip to DMV agent who renews your drivers license? What about the checkout clerk? Do you tip your mailman? This who business of tipping because food is involved is utterly pathetic. There's nothing actually different about the a food delivery driver vs a mailman. > Have you ever delivered food for a living? I have not, but as I said: bringing the food to the table if the basic job. Doing a lot of work means mental work, not physical. i.e. you paid special attention and anticipated needs, i.e. you are more than just acting as a glorified robot. Put another way: If someone could automate your job with a computer to take orders, and a conveyor belt to deliver them, that's not tip-worthy. If your job is performed by tons of other people who do not get a tip, you're also not getting a tip. (i.e. food delivery vs mailman) A tip is for something extra. I had a mechanic who managed a very difficult tire patch repair for me - saved me on buying a new tire. I gave him a tip because he did something beyond the norm - normally they would not repair that tire.

demosthanos 2y ago

> Get takeout. No reasonable person expects you to tip your restaurant worker when you get takeout. So one way to avoid leaving a gratuity is to get your next restaurant meal to go. This is a way to avoid tipping if and only if you're comfortable manually selecting "no tip". It doesn't matter if you're ordering online or at the counter, you will be prompted for a tip these days when ordering takeout, often with some obscene percentage preselected that you have to opt out of. As multiple people noted in the article, this tendency has done more to exhaust people of tipping than anything else. A tip jar is nonconfrontational and just gives an easy way to give extra if you want to. But these terminals are turning tipping into something that is actively stressful for a lot of people. The only bright side I see is that by completely exhausting everyone they might be responsible for ending the practice everywhere and forcing restaurants to pay a wage.

nickthegreek 2y ago
2 days ago I ordered online, tipped and paid online. When I arrived I had to sign a receipt that had a line labeled Additional Tip. The system knew I had tipped but wanted to try squeeze me again!
- eddd-ddde 2y ago
  Tipping _before_ receiving the service is beyond insane. How do you know how much to tip if there's nothing to evaluate yet?
  - bitshiftfaced 2y ago
    I think it's permissable in cases where you'd normally pay before the service and it's a type of service that is a low-dollar amount and something you'd do frequently instead of a one-off. An example would be a sandwich shop you go to every week. The reasoning would be that since it's cheap and frequent, those receiving the tip have an incentive today to deliver good service because they'd like you to continue tipping in the future.
    - 2y ago

neilv 2y ago

The article ends with: > “Tipping should be based on exceptional service,” she says. “It’s not an entitlement.” For sit-down restaurants, tipping is a cultural convention that was adopted long ago, and has been baked into pricing, wages, and sometimes even taxes. Someone might make an argument that it'd be better to have a different cultural convention. But simply ignoring the actual cultural convention would be a big deal, adversely affecting the livelihoods of many low-income people.

wetpaws 2y ago
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kaliqt 2y ago
The solution is to reverse it in my opinion. Tipping has ruined the service industry, for customers and workers.
- neilv 2y ago
  If the convention is changed, that's fine. Simply ignoring the convention, as some do, seems ruthless.
  - MostlyStable 2y ago
    There is no way to change it other than to ignore it. Are you imagining some cultural council you can appeal to to change it? The culture is nothing but thousands of individual decisions.
    - neilv 2y ago
      > There is no way to change it other than to ignore it. Couldn't one change the culture without freeloading off of where it's baked in? For example, publicize your preferred convention, and then give your business to restaurants that decide to satisfy the demand for that convention. If people don't flock to those restaurants, then maybe that wasn't a viable cultural change. Or maybe the objection wasn't impassioned philosophical position on the optimal economic model, but rather that they simply wanted to pay less, and blaming a questionable custom was a convenient loophole.

AndrewKemendo 2y ago

I just ask the person how much they need/want if they are present and only give cash/venmo so it cannot be diverted to management, taxes or corporate. Like I’ll say “what would be an amount that will solve a problem you’re worried about?” Usually it’s just “oh whatever you think” so I just do whatever I feel in that case and move on. Sometimes it’s zero, and sometimes its $200 to the Uber driver with pictures of his sick daughter all over his car. If the point is to compensate the person because they are wage slave then I feel obligated to directly compensate the employee bypassing the structure they are in Tip pools are more complicated and I generally ask how the pool is split before deciding It’s such a scam but most people who are stuck in it don’t have many options

throwup238 2y ago
> sometimes its $200 to the Uber driver with pictures of his sick daughter all over his car. Oh man, that's what I'm doing next. Are there any sick-child-as-a-service providers or am I going to have to go source my own? Can I just use stock photos? Would you tip more if there was a screen in the back seat playing a slideshow of the sick child with a Sarah McLachlan song in the background? How about a live chat function where you can talk to it before you tip? Maybe an achievement system for repeat customers? Fill out your punch card and you get to inject the cyclophosphamide! What if we had the state reclassify our cabs as foster homes and put a foster kid in every front passenger seat? Do they have to be terminally ill or can we just shave them and feed them a diet of lead paint chips? Sorry this startup idea got away from me. I'm calling it Munchausen.ai
- AndrewKemendo 2y ago
  I’m sorry you have to walk around with that level of fear, distrust and anxiety in your head that it has deteriorated your ability to differentiate. Good luck
  - throwup238 2y ago
    I didn't mean to imply your driver was scamming you, just making a joke about Changing the World™ by monetizing and soullessly destroying every social interaction, Silicon Valley style :-) I had hoped the absurdism of a cyclophosphemide punch card or converting a taxi cab to foster home would have given it away

underlogic 2y ago

If you stop tipping they'll spit in your food or rate you down on Uber. Once I didn't tip at a semi upscale restaurant and the waiter followed our group down the street and asked me why not quite upset. I explained the food took three hours to be served and was terrible but he already knew that, the point was embarrassment. You have to tip. It's not really a request. That said, a custom gifting a few dollars to those working brutal menial jobs isn't such a tragedy. What we need is a mechanism where servers can be tipped directly bypassing management. Could be just a QR code badge linked to stripe fast checkout. I imagine a waiter living off Costco hotdogs and soda standing eight hours a day holding a jug of ice water and a game face with the heat of the kitchen to his back wondering if he can make both rent and the car payments. Watching groups of businessmen and beautiful women eat $300 meals leaving half of the food uneaten. It's emasculating, cruel. There needs to be something like the tipping custom. That kind if experience can build real resentment

sunnybeetroot 2y ago
I would say we need wages to not rely on tips to supplement a wage to a liveable income.
- alexpc201 2y ago
  Basically, the issue of wages is not my problem, so this whole discussion becomes absurd. Do I want to leave compensation for the worker? Does he deserve an extra out of my pocket? Did he do something for me that exceeds his job functions and I can appreciate? If he brings me a plate of food for which I'm going to be charged, it is unlikely to fall under these conditions.
  - underlogic 2y ago
    It is your problem - that's your meal he's spitting in. Justified or not
    - archagon 2y ago
      Nobody is going to spit in your food, but staff will think you’re an asshole (and sometimes confront you).

bfung 2y ago

It’s not that no-tipping policy won’t stick; it’s that it’s allowed by the tax code. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped The code allows for a lower minimum wage when tips are involved. Getting rid of this complication in the tax code would make owning restaurants harder, but fix other societal issues. Can’t say it’s be an easy decision or trade off to make - a lot of restaurants wouldn’t be able to stay in business and those who like eating out would have a lot less and more expensive choices.

neilv 2y ago

A small side benefit to tipping... During early Covid, when I'd get grocery delivery from a company that happened to be known for often treating employees badly, I'd tip much more than the default. Because they deserved it and more. But a side benefit was the amusement of imagining the CEO getting pissed off that a worker was getting paid more than the minimum that the company had calculated it could get away with. (Well, it turns out the company was stealing tips, so maybe the CEO had the last laugh, but I tried.)

from-nibly 2y ago
And thats always the case. If you got enough tips to make a wage that you want and got no salary youd still do it. What an employer pays an employee is just enough to keep them doing the job. It doesn't matter if the money comes from tips or wage it's all the same. Which means the company will be the one who benefits from a tip every time it's money they don't have to pay the employee no matter what.
- neilv 2y ago
  Fortunately, the market isn't perfectly efficient, and there are applicable laws.
oliwarner 2y ago
That's some bad activism. If you think a company is mistreating their employees, don't use that company. At all. The only tip you should be giving employees is to find a better job. No CEO is getting bent because somebody else is paying their employees' wages. If anything, you've enabled them to continue treating workers poorly for longer.
- neilv 2y ago
  Point taken about boycotting bad companies, but sometimes it's harder than other times. The side benefit of tipping well was amusement from imagining the CEO (of a savagely metrics-driven, stack-ranking, generally jerky) company being so miserably ruthless that they're demanding reports on tipping, and getting angry when there's employees/contractors who they can't squeeze any harder. Not that they're actually getting angry.

lewdev 2y ago

Should I? I tip out of guilt and conforming to social norms. I don't want to look like an asshole too. I'm getting annoyed by these apps that don't give 15% as an option. They put 22% as the first option, which is insane. And it's no fault to the waiter, it's the default setting that was configured by the store. I had to calculate roughly what 15% was quickly and accept the payment. At that point, maybe I should have just put 0% but then I'd be an asshole, right?

bitwize 2y ago

No. Until the culture changes and merchants start building service costs into their prices and paying service personnel living wages, tip them. Tip them generously. 20% is table stakes for restaurant service; for things like hairstyling you want to tip around 50%.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

alexpc201 2y ago

Did you go the extra mile? There you have the answer if you deserve a tip or not. Nothing else matters.

nunez 2y ago

Until restaurants are forced to catch up with minimum wage laws, I am more than happy to tip. I need the money less than the people who made the food or whatever for me. Despite this, I'd prefer to patron no-tip businesses because it is more likely that the employees working them are treated and compensated more fairly.

plutoh28 2y ago

Tipping has transformed from an occasional courtesy to a daily exploitation of people’s guilt and social anxiety