4 ms·

For people with a long and rich history of procrastination, half-assing and missing deadlines - like 90% of devs I hang around with - consider doing the opposit

For people with a long and rich history of procrastination, half-assing and missing deadlines - like 90% of devs I hang around with - consider doing the opposite: do something with care and focus. Make it perfect to the best of your abilities and do it within the time limit. Consider all parameters, not just the technical. You might fail. Explore your emotional reaction to that.

ocodo 2y ago
> Make it perfect to the best of your abilities No, make it good/working to the best of your abilities. Never aim for perfection, if you actually want to get out of bed and do things. Your abilities will grow, and your techniques will develop. If you want to know what "Perfect is the enemy of Good" really means... double down on perfectionism, and see you do nothing, or see your hires leave you.
chromanoid 2y ago
Perfectionism is usually a cause for procrastination. In my experience the long and rich history of procrastination, half-assing and missing deadlines is usually caused by over-thinking, pre-mature optimization, wrong abstractions and analysis paralysis combined with deadlines. I would suggest to try to finish tasks with the bare minimum. Not half-assed but without bells and whistles. Important bells and whistles will come back anyway as their own tasks. Drive by sight and don't prepare too much for the final destination. The latter will change anyway and you will waste your time worrying about ifs.
- fphhotchips 2y ago
  I've been taking this approach more recently. Something shipped is 100% better than nothing at all, even if it's 25% worse than if I whole-assed it. It's been working, in that the 'leave room for others to step in' has worked well, and those others have filled the gaps with new and interesting ideas that I likely would not have done even had I whole-assed it. At the same time, those people weren't equipped to whole-ass something from nothing.
- huygens6363 2y ago
  I emphasize, because I share your tendencies. This is all personal btw, nothing to you personally. I have to admit that failing to produce a required result in time using the right abstractions and without “overthinking” is actually just that: failing. That’s why I mentioned all parameters, including time, social reality, etc. Using too much time is failing. Producing results is a skill. Like mastering programming languages and system internals is a skill. We should approach it with honesty and reflection: we suck at that for now and it’s OK. We can improve. Personally I found whitewashing failure with “I think too deeply”-type of arguments tends to maintain status quo instead of improvement. Because we deeply belief that it’s not actually failure, but it is. I actually agree with “just finish”. It’s a good first step. Don’t furnish, but also don’t half ass.
- robofanatic 2y ago
  Agreed, but you have to be lucky to be not on a toxic team for that otherwise you are going to get a ton of comments by your peers in your Pull Request for trivial things that you left out even though you had clearly stated the scope before, just so that the peers can show that they are doing their job of peer reviewing. And later the ignorant manager questions you in 1:1 about the number of comments on your PR without actually reading them. This is based on my recent experience.
  - diarrhea 2y ago
    From their perspective, what are you going to do? Say you implemented a new function and missed some clear edge cases in the new tests. Or perhaps there's no tests written at all, because it was half-assed. You will have to speak up in a peer review. I'd speak up just to have it written down. Perhaps you just forgot to `git add` that part, I don't know. It'd be professional negligence not to at least bring it up! If your reply is then, 'I'm aware, and didn't do this for reason X', that's perfectly fine, if reason X is at least slightly better than couldn't be arsed.
    - mewpmewp2 2y ago
      I would say to sync on this out of PR before to make sure you are aligned on it with reviewers so they don't have to waste time focusing on the wrong things and writing those comments in the first place.
worldsayshi 2y ago
I'm kind of an overthinker and as a result sometimes a procrastinator. I recently took a long break from work and ended up working on "my dream software platform". I'm still processing what I've learned from that experience but perhaps one of the important things I've learned is that even when I think things through I make similar mistakes to the ones I do when I'm stressed out. And I think that has made me more efficient because I can kind of shrug a bit at things I know are hard to get right on the first try.
helboi4 2y ago
Yeah we have to very carefully recognise when advice does and doesn't apply to us. I absolutely do not need the advice of half assing anyting. It takes a lot for me to whole-ass things and I have to think of strategies as to how to get into that state sustainably. And I agree its more about not focusing and having a strong emotional reaction to difficulty and failure, not about being a perfectionist. I'm not sure I like the way that people talk about procrastinators being perfectionists. You can't be a perfectionist if you never even get to the stage of perfecting something. It always feels like a way to make us feel better about ourselves undeservedly.
watwut 2y ago
Usually it is not possible, so it is not even a failure to not achieve impossible.
Arisaka1 2y ago
Great, now not only my perfectionist hamster is speeding up trying to hit their "best result possible" goal, but I'm also stressed out of my mind for fear of missing the time limit. I guess for some people fear works, but I'm more of a "carrot chaser" than a "stick dodger". Failing would mean that I'm both dejected for not getting what I want and frustrated because there's a non zero possibility my "best" is just mediocre for everyone else. I'm also still over deadline and scared of being fired.
- pjc50 2y ago
  I think OP is applying the therapy approach of trying to "sit with" failure. I don't think this suits everyone.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    But also is it a failure or is it an expected part of the process? Do we have to bring out the Thomas Edison quote here?
- huygens6363 2y ago
  No offense, but if producing a result within a time frame is causing severe anxiety I think a more.. holistic approach is warranted. It’s not fear, it’s being real: can you do this, with the parameters given or not? If not, great, no problem, but don’t tell yourself you are a “perfectionist”. You might be, but who can tell if you never produce? You just can’t do it right now and that’s perfectly alright. Being honest matters IME. You hit the nail on its head there: there exists the possibility that “your best” is actually mediocre. You better acknowledge that sooner rather than later if you wish to live in reality which I deeply suggest you want to at least attempt. If you know wicked smart people like, say, T. Tao you will quickly develop the ability to accept you might just be mediocre and that’s OK. Myself, I am completely mediocre and have a hard time hitting simple goals. There.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    What does "mediocre" even mean? That's a relative and subjective statement. Why bring that in? Are you mediocre in coding compared to 100% of the population in the World? Surely not, since most people do not know how to code. Are you mediocre compared to top 0.001% coders in the World. Unless you are not in the top there, and you are comparing yourself to them, then you are worse than mediocre. Because you would only be mediocre compared to them if you are around the top 0.0005%.
pjc50 2y ago
"If you are doing things badly, have you considered simply doing things well?"

ocodo 2y ago

> Make it perfect to the best of your abilities No, make it good/working to the best of your abilities. Never aim for perfection, if you actually want to get out of bed and do things. Your abilities will grow, and your techniques will develop. If you want to know what "Perfect is the enemy of Good" really means... double down on perfectionism, and see you do nothing, or see your hires leave you.

chromanoid 2y ago

Perfectionism is usually a cause for procrastination. In my experience the long and rich history of procrastination, half-assing and missing deadlines is usually caused by over-thinking, pre-mature optimization, wrong abstractions and analysis paralysis combined with deadlines. I would suggest to try to finish tasks with the bare minimum. Not half-assed but without bells and whistles. Important bells and whistles will come back anyway as their own tasks. Drive by sight and don't prepare too much for the final destination. The latter will change anyway and you will waste your time worrying about ifs.

fphhotchips 2y ago
I've been taking this approach more recently. Something shipped is 100% better than nothing at all, even if it's 25% worse than if I whole-assed it. It's been working, in that the 'leave room for others to step in' has worked well, and those others have filled the gaps with new and interesting ideas that I likely would not have done even had I whole-assed it. At the same time, those people weren't equipped to whole-ass something from nothing.
huygens6363 2y ago
I emphasize, because I share your tendencies. This is all personal btw, nothing to you personally. I have to admit that failing to produce a required result in time using the right abstractions and without “overthinking” is actually just that: failing. That’s why I mentioned all parameters, including time, social reality, etc. Using too much time is failing. Producing results is a skill. Like mastering programming languages and system internals is a skill. We should approach it with honesty and reflection: we suck at that for now and it’s OK. We can improve. Personally I found whitewashing failure with “I think too deeply”-type of arguments tends to maintain status quo instead of improvement. Because we deeply belief that it’s not actually failure, but it is. I actually agree with “just finish”. It’s a good first step. Don’t furnish, but also don’t half ass.
robofanatic 2y ago
Agreed, but you have to be lucky to be not on a toxic team for that otherwise you are going to get a ton of comments by your peers in your Pull Request for trivial things that you left out even though you had clearly stated the scope before, just so that the peers can show that they are doing their job of peer reviewing. And later the ignorant manager questions you in 1:1 about the number of comments on your PR without actually reading them. This is based on my recent experience.
- diarrhea 2y ago
  From their perspective, what are you going to do? Say you implemented a new function and missed some clear edge cases in the new tests. Or perhaps there's no tests written at all, because it was half-assed. You will have to speak up in a peer review. I'd speak up just to have it written down. Perhaps you just forgot to `git add` that part, I don't know. It'd be professional negligence not to at least bring it up! If your reply is then, 'I'm aware, and didn't do this for reason X', that's perfectly fine, if reason X is at least slightly better than couldn't be arsed.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    I would say to sync on this out of PR before to make sure you are aligned on it with reviewers so they don't have to waste time focusing on the wrong things and writing those comments in the first place.

worldsayshi 2y ago

I'm kind of an overthinker and as a result sometimes a procrastinator. I recently took a long break from work and ended up working on "my dream software platform". I'm still processing what I've learned from that experience but perhaps one of the important things I've learned is that even when I think things through I make similar mistakes to the ones I do when I'm stressed out. And I think that has made me more efficient because I can kind of shrug a bit at things I know are hard to get right on the first try.

helboi4 2y ago

Yeah we have to very carefully recognise when advice does and doesn't apply to us. I absolutely do not need the advice of half assing anyting. It takes a lot for me to whole-ass things and I have to think of strategies as to how to get into that state sustainably. And I agree its more about not focusing and having a strong emotional reaction to difficulty and failure, not about being a perfectionist. I'm not sure I like the way that people talk about procrastinators being perfectionists. You can't be a perfectionist if you never even get to the stage of perfecting something. It always feels like a way to make us feel better about ourselves undeservedly.

watwut 2y ago

Usually it is not possible, so it is not even a failure to not achieve impossible.

Arisaka1 2y ago

Great, now not only my perfectionist hamster is speeding up trying to hit their "best result possible" goal, but I'm also stressed out of my mind for fear of missing the time limit. I guess for some people fear works, but I'm more of a "carrot chaser" than a "stick dodger". Failing would mean that I'm both dejected for not getting what I want and frustrated because there's a non zero possibility my "best" is just mediocre for everyone else. I'm also still over deadline and scared of being fired.

pjc50 2y ago
I think OP is applying the therapy approach of trying to "sit with" failure. I don't think this suits everyone.
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  But also is it a failure or is it an expected part of the process? Do we have to bring out the Thomas Edison quote here?
huygens6363 2y ago
No offense, but if producing a result within a time frame is causing severe anxiety I think a more.. holistic approach is warranted. It’s not fear, it’s being real: can you do this, with the parameters given or not? If not, great, no problem, but don’t tell yourself you are a “perfectionist”. You might be, but who can tell if you never produce? You just can’t do it right now and that’s perfectly alright. Being honest matters IME. You hit the nail on its head there: there exists the possibility that “your best” is actually mediocre. You better acknowledge that sooner rather than later if you wish to live in reality which I deeply suggest you want to at least attempt. If you know wicked smart people like, say, T. Tao you will quickly develop the ability to accept you might just be mediocre and that’s OK. Myself, I am completely mediocre and have a hard time hitting simple goals. There.
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  What does "mediocre" even mean? That's a relative and subjective statement. Why bring that in? Are you mediocre in coding compared to 100% of the population in the World? Surely not, since most people do not know how to code. Are you mediocre compared to top 0.001% coders in the World. Unless you are not in the top there, and you are comparing yourself to them, then you are worse than mediocre. Because you would only be mediocre compared to them if you are around the top 0.0005%.

pjc50 2y ago

"If you are doing things badly, have you considered simply doing things well?"