5 ms·

Case insensitive matching is a surprisingly complicated, locale-dependent affair. Should I.txt and i.txt match? (Note that the first file is not named I.txt).

Case insensitive matching is a surprisingly complicated, locale-dependent affair. Should I.txt and i.txt match? (Note that the first file is not named I.txt). Case insensitive filesystems make about as much sense as ASCII-only filenames.

HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
How would locale matter?
- GolDDranks 2y ago
  For example, it depends on the locale if the capitalized form of ß is ß or SS.
- ckolkey 2y ago
  Off the top of my head, in turkish, `i` doesn't become `I`, it becomes `İ`. And `ı` is the lower case version of `I`
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    You don't need to decide how to upper or lower case a character to be insensitive to case, though. Treating them all as matching isn't a terrible option.
jodrellblank 2y ago
And yet case insensitive file name matching / string matching is one of my favourite windows features. It’s enormously convenient. An order of magnitude more convenient than the edge cases it causes me. People aren’t ASCII or UTF-8 machines; “e” and “E” are the same character, that they are different ASCII codes is a behind the scenes implementation detail. (That said, S3 isn’t a filesystem, it’s more like a web hashtable key-to-blob storage)
- lultimouomo 2y ago
  > People aren’t ASCII or UTF-8 machines; “e” and “E” are the same character They are the same character to you, a native speaker of a Western language written in a latin script. They are the same to you because you are, in fact, an ASCII machine. Many many people in the world are not.
  - jodrellblank 2y ago
    They are the same to me, they are different in ASCII, therefore I am not an ASCII machine. To me, the person using the computer to do work. Not the person wanting to do extra work to support the computer's internal leaky abstractions of data storage. Your position, the position of too many people, is that I a native speaker of English etc. should not be allowed to have a computer working how English works because somewhere, someone else is different. This is like saying I shouldn't be allowed an English spell checker because there are other people who speak other languages.
- kaashif 2y ago
  > “e” and “E” are the same character They don't look like the same character to me. A character is a written symbol. These are different symbols. What definition of "character" are you using where they're the same character? I haven't ruled out that I am wrong, this is a naive comment.
  - Zambyte 2y ago
    Are the words hello and HELLO spelled differently? I am pretty squarely in the camp that filesystems should be case sensitive (perhaps with an insensitive shell on top), but I would not consider those two words as having a different spelling. To me that means they are the same sequence of characters.
  - jodrellblank 2y ago
    When you press the "E" key on a US keyboard and "e" comes out, do you return the keyboard because it's broken? If not, then you know what definition I'm using even if I misnamed it.
segfaltnh 2y ago
Complicated for who? I've little pity for developers and kernels ease of life as a user.

HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago

How would locale matter?

GolDDranks 2y ago
For example, it depends on the locale if the capitalized form of ß is ß or SS.
ckolkey 2y ago
Off the top of my head, in turkish, `i` doesn't become `I`, it becomes `İ`. And `ı` is the lower case version of `I`
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  You don't need to decide how to upper or lower case a character to be insensitive to case, though. Treating them all as matching isn't a terrible option.

jodrellblank 2y ago

And yet case insensitive file name matching / string matching is one of my favourite windows features. It’s enormously convenient. An order of magnitude more convenient than the edge cases it causes me. People aren’t ASCII or UTF-8 machines; “e” and “E” are the same character, that they are different ASCII codes is a behind the scenes implementation detail. (That said, S3 isn’t a filesystem, it’s more like a web hashtable key-to-blob storage)

lultimouomo 2y ago
> People aren’t ASCII or UTF-8 machines; “e” and “E” are the same character They are the same character to you, a native speaker of a Western language written in a latin script. They are the same to you because you are, in fact, an ASCII machine. Many many people in the world are not.
- jodrellblank 2y ago
  They are the same to me, they are different in ASCII, therefore I am not an ASCII machine. To me, the person using the computer to do work. Not the person wanting to do extra work to support the computer's internal leaky abstractions of data storage. Your position, the position of too many people, is that I a native speaker of English etc. should not be allowed to have a computer working how English works because somewhere, someone else is different. This is like saying I shouldn't be allowed an English spell checker because there are other people who speak other languages.
kaashif 2y ago
> “e” and “E” are the same character They don't look like the same character to me. A character is a written symbol. These are different symbols. What definition of "character" are you using where they're the same character? I haven't ruled out that I am wrong, this is a naive comment.
- Zambyte 2y ago
  Are the words hello and HELLO spelled differently? I am pretty squarely in the camp that filesystems should be case sensitive (perhaps with an insensitive shell on top), but I would not consider those two words as having a different spelling. To me that means they are the same sequence of characters.
- jodrellblank 2y ago
  When you press the "E" key on a US keyboard and "e" comes out, do you return the keyboard because it's broken? If not, then you know what definition I'm using even if I misnamed it.

segfaltnh 2y ago

Complicated for who? I've little pity for developers and kernels ease of life as a user.