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PyPy has been working for me for several years now
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sixhobbits 2y agoI've been using Python since like 2011 and I still read PyPy and think PyPI. Naming things is hard but it would be nice if people tried a bit harder to avoid clashes at least within the same ecosystem.
- asddubs 2y agoYeah, I had to reread the opening paragraph before I got it
- rsynnott 2y agoI'm not sure which came first, but whichever came second is the worst naming of anything ever.
- scbrg 2y agoPyPy was first. It was indeed easier in the era when the Cheese Shop was called the Cheese Shop, and not PyPi. [edit]: After some searching, I notice that PEP 301 is actually dated Oct 2002, so perhaps I'm wrong. The public/advertised name was Cheese Shop for quite some time after that, but apparently the name PyPi was at least suggested much earlier than I thought. https://peps.python.org/pep-0301/ https://peps.python.org/pep-0301/
- leetrout 2y agoFor others that do not know: This is why python has wheels.
- jiayo 2y agoThen where did eggs come from?
- johndough 2y agoPythons lay eggs.
- sanderjd 2y agoChickens. Or maybe the other way around...
- 7bit 2y agoChickens come from eggs. That's scientifically proven.
- progval 2y agofrom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(Monty_Python_sketch)#Menu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(Monty_Python_sketch)#Men... / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
- bxparks 2y agoCan someone explain what a "wheel" has anything to do with "cheese"? Every time I come across the term "wheel" in Python, it makes no sense to me. I believe it has something to do with Monty Python. I think I have watched the skit that involves the cheese, but it's beyond my understanding how it's related to wheel. Maybe I watched the wrong skit. Maybe it's because I don't understand Monty Python.
- geertj 2y agoBecause of a "wheel of cheese," usually referring to Parmezan cheese.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
- bee_rider 2y agoI wish I was good at coming up with Python tools… we need to complete the set, PiPy and PiPi.
- smcl 2y agoSomeone has beaten you to both: - https://pypi.org/search/?q=PiPy https://pypi.org/search/?q=PiPy - https://pypi.org/project/pipi/ https://pypi.org/project/pipi/
- bee_rider 2y agoMaybe I’ve been beaten, or maybe we’re all on the same side…
- I_complete_me 2y agoRight now my brain is scrambled...
- willvarfar 2y agofor several years I used to use pypy to get the dev speed of python on the kinda crunchy problems that you'd normally need to work in a classic compiled language for. I remember it fondly. At the time, you could find the devs on freenode and the few times I bumped into something being slower than expected they jumped on my informal bug reports and quickly recreated it and fixed it etc. Awesome! :)
- robertlagrant 2y agoI do think that PyPy is a strangely undercelebrated heroic Python effort.
- actionfromafar 2y agoShedskin is the completely un-celebrated heroic Python effort.
- lucb1e 2y agoWell now don't leave us hanging... > an experimental restricted-Python to C++ programming language compiler
- pjmlp 2y agoIt is a bit sad that PyPy great achievements are mostly ignored, and it took Microsoft and Facebook stepping in, Julia and Mojo arriving into the scene, AI GPU frameworks JITs, for finally CPython to take having a JIT seriously.
- grumpyprole 2y agoI had always assumed it was because they had exposed far too many internals over the years, making a JIT that was backwards compatible with the majority of existing code, an extremely difficult undertaking.
- IshKebab 2y agoI assumed it was because they explicitly did not have performance as a goal, probably because performance is so bad they wanted to have a good answer and "performance is a non-goal" is the best they could do. Psychologically that is much easier to digest than "yes it's awful, sorry". I don't think backwards compatibility can really be the reason. Python does not care that much about backwards compatibility, as seen from the extensive list of features they remove in every release: https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.12.html#removed https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.12.html#removed
- Waterluvian 2y agoI’m confused now. What’s the point of PyPy if performance isn’t a goal?
- orf 2y agoIt’s a completely unrelated project
- Waterluvian 2y agoOh they’re referencing the fork and not base PyPy, which is still about performance?
- olliemath 2y agoI've used pypy on large codebases for years. Generally it's fine so long as you don't need any of the packages that are thin wrappers around C/fortran. It seems a lot of maintainers these days are pretty good about considering it as a target On the other hand the memory footprint can be painful - not just the deferred garbage collection of things like weakrefs and closed files, but even regular objects. A while back I had hope that the faster cpython project would somewhat remove our need to use it, just so we could have a lower memory footprint, but that seems to have stalled
- graemep 2y ago> Generally it's fine so long as you don't need any of the packages that are thin wrappers around C/fortran This is precisely where my attempt to use Pypy failed.
- spiderxxxx 2y agoWhy? What specifically caused you not to seek out alternatives? PyPy and libraries with CFFI seem to work okay together, but it can run python native code nearly as fast as C, so I always look for a pure python solution rather than depend on a C library.
- graemep 2y agoIt was a known but not fixed issue with psycopg IIRC
- _lvbh 2y agoFortran! Would be interested in your story on how you’re integrating Python and Fortran. That sounds very interesting
- 7thaccount 2y agoThey likely mean some of the numerical packages that call out to BLAS/LAPACK or whatever as all that was originally written in Fortran. I think a lot has been converted to C now.
- bratao 2y agoThe next versions of CPython are expanding in two very important areas for speed. The free-threading (NoGIL) project will allow true multithreading support and the Faster CPython is trying to speedup Python and are developing a JIT. Exciting times!
- bityard 2y agoPyPy is also (as far as I know) the only Python 2 implementation still actively supported, not including OS-specific packages.
- tasty_freeze 2y agoNuitka is actively maintained and support for 2.6 and 2.7. It is the work of a single guy, and I have never used it, so I don't know much about it. https://nuitka.net/ https://nuitka.net/
- lyu07282 2y agothat is awesome! When it began development I never really thought PyPy would work this well, it reminds me a bit of GraalVM in that "high-arcane" magic voodoo sense of compiler/runtime development. It took 17 years of dedicated effort to get here, but the result is really impressive.
- pjmlp 2y agoThis is why many technology improvements are only possible by visionaries that are able to dream what things should look like, Alan Kay and Jobs style. Not by those that cannot phantom anything besides what is available today running in front of them. Android versus Longhorn, as another example.
- lyu07282 2y agoIn that context I wish I could see ladybird in 20 years, I have a sneaking suspicion it's another one of these cases.
- bootsmann 2y agoTangentially related but pipx is a silent hero in the quest for better python environment management. Takes care of the problems with bootstrapping your environment manager of choice without installing it in the python root.
- notresidenter 2y agoIt took me 5 minutes to realize that this isn't PyPi the package manager but PyPy, an interpreter for python. This was very confusing, especially because they mentionned pipx, which seems related to PyPi, so it was plausible this was about PyPi.
- crispyambulance 2y agoYeah, it's like they're shooting themselves in both feet by just naming their project badly. What a pity. It could have been worse. Years ago a promising audio format was competing with mp3. It was better quality at any given compression and open source. The creators named it "Ogg Vorbis". Like some kind of dungeons and dragons character or something. I haven't seen it around for a long time, I think that's because the name was so stupid.
- mrtesthah 2y agoThe Vorbis codec was simply not as good[1] as AAC or Opus which have since superseded it. 1. http://opus-codec.org/comparison/ http://opus-codec.org/comparison/
- nick238 2y agoAAC is proprietary and Opus didn't exist before 2012. Vorbis came out in 2000. The format for audio files doesn't matter much nowadays, especially with sufficient bandwidth and most people streaming them from whatever service that uses whatever it will. In the era of Napster, those early 2000s, the formats were very front-of-mind.
- Novosell 2y agoI think the developers at all those streaming services might disagree with you about file format not mattering.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tiagod 2y ago>403: Request Unsuccessful >Your request cannot be satisfied. >You appear to be trying to break this web server. Goodbye. Sorry, I guess...
- cl3misch 2y agoOk, but what CLI tools are you using where you would care about performance between CPython and PyPy?
- KptMarchewa 2y agoYear or two ago, literally any. Now with ruff and uv, much less.
- cl3misch 2y ago"Literally any" would include glances, wormhole, yt-dlp, nvitop for me. For which I don't care about performance.