8 ms·

I love my wife. My wife is dead (1946)

450 points by tu7001 2y ago

sophoskiaskile 2y ago
It's beautiful :))
sampo 2y ago
Somewhat related: http://www.rosenfels.org/Feynman http://www.rosenfels.org/Feynman After the war, Feynman got a "D" from an army psychological evaluation because he, among other things, told the psychiatrist that he occasionally talks to his late wife. "Thinks people talk about him. Thinks people stare at him. Auditory hypnogogic hallucinations. Talks to self. Talks to deceased wife."
- romwell 2y ago
  Well, people sure do talk about him, he was on point there. That's what we're doing now! And why wouldn't he talk to himself? Clearly it would be a conversation with a much more interesting person than most people around him (and yes, I'm aware he worked on the Manhattan Project and the Challenger investigation).
- _yb2s 2y ago
  It’s incredible that they are so out of touch they see healthy introspection, and love as mental illness. This reminds me of when I had an actual bacterial infection, couldn’t get my Dr to prescribe antibiotics for it, so I got some on my own and they worked. When I pulled my medical records I saw in my chart something like “inappropriate off label use of prescription medications.”
  - redblacktree 2y ago
    How did you pull your medical records?
    - _yb2s 2y ago
      I believe it's a legal right to request them. I sent them an official form requesting them, and they sent them to me, as I wanted to transfer my old records to a new doctor. These were old style records, nowadays most of that stuff will be automatically on some type of web portal.
    - f1refly 2y ago
      I think you can just ask your doctor for them? Why would someone deny you your own medical records?
      - redblacktree 2y ago
        I wasn't thinking that it would be denied. My curiosity was more with respect to how easy or difficult it is to request them.
  - therobots927 2y ago
    How did you acquire the antibiotics?
    - _yb2s 2y ago
      In this case I already had them- I had previously pulled a muscle that was causing a lot of pain, and a doctor inappropriately prescribed me a course of antibiotics for a physical injury that couldn't possibly be an infection, so I never took them. It really grates me that numerous times I've been inappropriately prescribed antibiotics- but the one time I had a dangerous and debilitating bacterial infection I was unable to obtain them. However many human safe antibiotics are legal to buy for animal use, and many countries sell oral antibiotics for human use over the counter without a prescription. Please- if anyone is reading this, don't use antibiotics inappropriately. Ideally work with a doctor,but if not make sure you actually need them, and you take a full course in the proper dose to avoid creating dangerous resistant strains.
      - therobots927 2y ago
        Yeah I don’t want to use them inappropriately. That being said I’ve gotten strep recently a couple times, and both times I wished I just had a few to start taking if the symptoms came on at night or over a weekend. That being said last time I had a sore throat it turned out to be Covid, and I was convinced I had strep again. So if I had my own antibiotics it’s possible I would’ve taken them inappropriately.
- protastus 2y ago
  I see two sides to this story. By his own account, Feynman thought the psychiatrist was a bullshitter (I can see his point), turned the interview around, trolled him and presented a clearly adversarial attitude.
huskdigselv 2y ago
What a turbulence of emotions and thoughts this invokes in me; I envy this guys beautiful and rich love for his wife, since I haven't felt similar myself. Simultaneously I also really feel for him and the grief and miss that comes from losing someone you love; I still somewhat often talk to my mother who passed to remind her that I still think of her and out of love. These emotions are ambiguously painful and meaningful.
nbgoodall 2y ago
"PS Please excuse my not mailing this — but I don’t know your new address." That hit hard.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jb1991 2y ago
I did not know Feynman was responsible for finding the cause of the Challenger explosion. That's remarkable on top of everything else he did.
- scrlk 2y ago
  It's worth reading Feynman's Personal Observations on Reliability of Shuttle, published as part of the Rogers Commission Report. https://www.nasa.gov/history/rogersrep/v2appf.htm https://www.nasa.gov/history/rogersrep/v2appf.htm > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
- syncsynchalt 2y ago
  It has come out more recently (2019) that Sally Ride was putting him on the trail. He acted the irascible dogged investigating scientist, and she got the astronauts' worries about shuttle program specifics out to the public.
- dotnet00 2y ago
  He was involved in the investigation committee, but of course wasn't the only one there. IIRC Neil Armstrong was also on the committee. I figure that part of the point of choosing them was to lend the committee credibility with the public. The public would probably trust that the findings were above board if they were supported by the first man on the Moon and one of the most prominent physicists of the time.
- kelnos 2y ago
  To add to what others said, I believe his biggest contribution to the Challenger investigation (beyond his insight and damning conclusions) was that he refused to censor himself and his report for political or public-relations reasons. IIRC he said if he weren't allowed to publish his part of the report in the way he wanted, the commission was to remove his name from the report entirely, because he didn't want to be associated with a report that pulled punches.
irusensei 2y ago
Having the feels over an HN post was not in my list today.
mrweasel 2y ago
On one hand I am happy that we have things like Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, on the other I feel that peoples private and unpublished writings should be kept private. It's reasonable enough to let a limited number of researchers access private documents, but the broader public, no. This isn't a letter meant for us, it's not meant for anyone to read and I feel that publishing it is a little disrespectful.
- donatj 2y ago
  Après moi, le déluge. After I am dead, publish everything, correspondence, search history, location history, nude photos. I am dead, I cannot care.
  - nick__m 2y ago
    Correspondences usually involve at least another person so please wait until both side are dead before publishing everything.
  - rpigab 2y ago
    You won't care, but the living will. Funerals aren't meant for the deceased, they allow the living to mourn and move on. It may be irrational fears, but living people often fear what's gonna happen to them after they die, and respect for people extends after they die for most people. Not for everyone, but this means that some will feel uncomfortable about sharing private stuff. And then there's also superstition.
    - strken 2y ago
      Speaking only for myself, it has been invaluable to have access to the private papers of people like my great grandfather. It provides a real connection to a man, time, and place which I couldn't know in person. Perhaps publishing everything is a step too far, but things like semi-private diaries from a war or a voyage --- intended for immediate family to read, but not for publication --- are often okay to publish within living memory of the deceased. Sufficiently chaste love letters seem to me to be okay after a long enough time has elapsed, too.
throw0101c 2y ago
A little longer (76 pages), but A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis is also worth checking out: * http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/PDFs/GriefObserved_CSL.pdf http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/PDFs/GriefObserved_CSL.pd... (Canada public domain) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Grief_Observed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Grief_Observed * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26077627-a-grief-observed https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26077627-a-grief-observe...
- dano 2y ago
  This is a worthwhile read. Grief is really not as cut and dried as it's sometimes made out to be. As Lewis came around to understanding, and perhaps Feynman too, we had something special, something grand, and to remember is comforting.
- sheepybloke 2y ago
  Second this book! I read this at the behest of my wife after my dad died of cancer, and was really impactful for me.
strenholme 2y ago
My wife died 10 years ago, so I understand that pain. Dealing with death is never easy. The thing I miss most about my wife is the depth of emotional connection; she knew everything about me being very deeply in love with me and everything I did really mattered to her. It has taken me nearly 10 years to build a network of friends who can give me comparable levels of socialization and attention; I have about two dozen very close friends (both male and female) across the world now and it’s finally enough to replace the hole in my life I had which my wife used to fill. I can see why Feynman became sexually promiscuous afterwards, undoubtedly to numb the pain of losing his wife; seduction allowed him to have a form of that connection, albeit without the depth and love of what he had with his wife. While that path looked appealing to me, I do not regret avoiding that temptation.
- cyberlurker 2y ago
  I mean this seriously. Why not both? I don’t see the problem with having multiple types of relationships with people, including sex. As long as everyone is on the same page (consensual, they know it’s casual, etc.) Sorry for your loss and glad you’re doing better.
  - mycologos 2y ago
    I don't think strenholme is saying that those casual relationships are morally wrong, but that they're only facsimiles of the connection found in a deep and long relationship (especially one formed when young), and that pursuing facsimiles maybe brings you close enough to the original that you keep pursuing, but not close enough to ever approximate the original, and if what you miss is the original, then this is not a path to satisfaction.
    - graemep 2y ago
      Interesting point, but surely the reasoning that they are "only facsimiles of the connection found in a deep and long relationship" is a major argument for regarding them as morally wrong? If you believe you have a moral duty to be the best person you can then passing up that opportunity in favour of the facsimiles is morally wrong.
4ggr0 2y ago
As someone in my first real realtionship of 5+ years[0] with someone I love more than I could ever have imagined, this hits pretty hard... I know it's a bit cliche and cringe to say, but my partner really did become my best friend. If I feel bad, the first thing I search for is being close and talking to them. We understand and support each other completely and do random things together, like described in the letter. We'll move in together in about a year, loosing them would probably rock me really hard and I currently can't imagine who I'd use as emotional support, as the person in question would be gone. May we happily be together for a long time <3 [0] only realized now that i've been with them for almost all of my adult life (yes, not that old).
- medstrom 2y ago
  It's an almost universal feeling, "I can't imagine who I'd use as emotional support", but if you end things I promise that you will find someone again. Not a replacement, but not a knockoff either, just different.
  - coldtea 2y ago
    Some people don't find someone as good again though. Good spouses/friends/etc are not that replaceable. Or rather, they're replacable practically, but the new persons are not necessarily offering the same level of connection.
    - medstrom 2y ago
      You used an interesting view of "practical" :) Deep connection is not just some bonus, I think, but in fact the main practical thing about a relationship. So I share your concern, but even so I'm not that worried. The deeper a connection you've been able to forge in the past, the better your chances of forging another deep connection.
      - coldtea 2y ago
        This is twofold I think. If having had a deep connection happened because you are in general someone easily capable of deep connection, it would be indeed easier to connect deeply again. But if having a deep connection happened despite you not being such a person, but, e.g., because the person you lost had an equally rare disposition as you, or you lived through special circumstances that bonded you more deeply, it's probably harder to replicate this.
robviren 2y ago
Man, when the analytical minded come to grips with emotions it always hits hard for me. I love that he reflects on the impractically of his own thoughts and just accepts how he feels. This love letter hits hard
MrDresden 2y ago
Half way through reading that, I stopped and sent my partner a message telling them how much I love and respect them. They have recently passed the 5 year survival mark after a cancer diagnosis and treatment, and are coming up on 3 years for their second different cancer diagnosis and treatment. None of us knows how much time we have ourselves or with our loved ones, so make the most of it in the moment.
coldtea 2y ago
People appreciating this letter might also appreciate "A crow look at me" by Mount Eerie (a one-person music project), written by Phil just after his wife died of cancer, and dealing with it. Here's an example track: https://genius.com/Mount-eerie-real-death-lyrics https://genius.com/Mount-eerie-real-death-lyrics
- moolcool 2y ago
  That entire album is such a massive emotional gut-punch.
- patcon 2y ago
  THANK YOU. I'm listening to this now, and deciding what is appropriate to share with my family <3
- exitb 2y ago
  Just a note that the album represents a much more raw and unprocessed point of view - I wouldn't recommend it to anyone dealing with a recent loss.
- 1stub 2y ago
  This may be the most gut-wrenching album ever created. Gets me every time.
LogHouse 2y ago
> You, dead, are so much better than anyone else alive. Beautiful. Leave this mark on someone.
hsuduebc2 2y ago
That's hard.
patcon 2y ago
This is beautiful. And not just beautiful, but true, I think. I've been working through thoughts about my dead mother the past few months, in concert with a new partner in my life who also lost her mother. We've been working through some thoughts... somewhat related to an information-theoretic view of death. Here's an excerpt of something I wrote on the topic[1] in 2018: > [snip] So anyhow, as I’m sitting in on this session [about IETF multistakeholder internet governance], and I’m realizing that what we’re really trying to figure out with internet governance is how to govern a complex system. So it’s perhaps less internet governance, but rather network governance. And so what patterns have we seen in other systems, that deals with this challenge of creating space for new participants, while honouring the history of past participants? > And this lead to some interesting thoughts on the big pattern that often goes unspoken: Death. > ### DEATH IS HEGEMONIC. > It may sound funny to describe death as a pattern. We often talk about it like it’s this fact of existence. And it might as well be. It’s omnipresent. Pretty much every living thing we know of, dies. It has prevailed in all living networks, through countless iterations. Death is hegemonic. > But what about death might be selected for? How does it benefit the network? Perhaps it’s best to imagine this first at the scale of individual personal relationships. That’s simpler, and I believe the reasoning is portable up to larger social scales. > Imagine how we might have moved on from Newtonian physics if that intellectual heavy-weight Newton were still alive and influential within the network. One could imagine that it might be difficult. Newton’s thinking was clever, but we also understand it to be misguided by today’s measure. In a world without death, new ideas would have to grapple and contend not just with static ideas and information, but with the dynamic and increasingly stubborn minds that birthed them. (This [stubbornness and confidence](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c3ef/2811b280c069c6a99d66e4eee34233e310f7.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c3ef/2811b280c069c6a99d66e4...) of age, is perhaps another selected pattern, with it’s own subtle network rationale, but I digress.) > Instead, the mind of an organism dies, and leaves information scattered throughout the human network in the form of static reference — in the minds of family and peers, in blog posts and newspaper articles, in books and distorted recollections. > So how would one describe the pattern of death? Through an unsentimental network lens, we could perhaps think about it as a data compression or noise reduction tactic of the larger evolving system. Or at a more human scale, we could imagine it as a process by which organisms go from the role of __living dynamic actors__ to become __static references__. > While the Newton example is on a worldly stage, there’s perhaps another example that’s more on the personal level. You can imagine this same dynamic playing in the relations between parents and children. The death of a parent, tragic as it is, is an opportunity for this complex character to move from __actor__ to __reference__ in the minds of their children. This memory is now open to healthy reinterpretation, which perhaps gives their ideas and actions more meaning than when they were alive. A static reference of a human, whether it’s a memory or a book or an article, becomes a bare skeleton picked clean, on which to hang new ideas and emotions and reflections. > After death, what remains is an abstraction — a simplification of the human who once was. But this abstraction can be re-imagined and built upon by the folks who follow. > And maybe this is healthy. Maybe this makes for healthy societies, with the right balance of new imaginings and old wisdoms on which to hang them. I have a hard time with death. I don't think of my mother as much as I'd like. But in the past few weeks, I've started writing to her in an empty group chat that goes to no one. I've been going through old emails and replying to all the messages I never responded to, which have previously been the source of a lot of shame. And it's really helping me. It's like she's continuing to grow with me, and me with her. And not just that, but it's helping me override the version of her (the broken versions, the sick versions) that overrepresent my recollections of her in the months before her death. In writing and communing with her, even in her absence, my relationship with her in growing, and she is growing too. And she's more alive in my conversations with my living family. And I'm reflecting my daily interactions and decisions through her consideration. It's very strange. I feel like I've been reintroduced to my mother. And it's also leading me to odd thoughts. Is every departure or absence of the true and active physical form (not just in death) a chance to consider someone like this. Can I share secret thoughts with a new love, with an imagined version of them, since the flesh-and-blood version of them would be scared of my sharing such things with them? Can I treat the living as dead in some ways, to shape them in my mind just as much as I might shape them later in the real world? Is this what we're always doing implicitly, when we build models of one another an empathize and imagine what they might do, in the spaces between when we have access to them? And what might we be losing in the world when we never have these absences, when we are never disconnected, never far enough away to grow alongside the imagined version of our loved ones, rather than trying to grow only with the actual biological one? Anyhow, thanks for hearing me out on these thoughts. I will imagine a reader as entertained and grateful, until you choose to reveal yourself otherwise <3 [1]: https://medium.com/@patcon/reflections-on-the-evolved-pattern-of-death-and-what-it-might-mean-for-governance-7dfdd0df9f09 https://medium.com/@patcon/reflections-on-the-evolved-patter...
DoreenMichele 2y ago
Richard Feynman: Physicist and bon vivant. I think that's why he's so interesting to people. He defies the stereotypes we have for a nerdy intellectual that suggests smart people don't know how to have fun or socialize or love...etc.
dang 2y ago
Reposts are fine after a year or so but this topic had a major thread within the last year, so the current post counts as a dupe by HN's standard. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html. Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37914958 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37914958 - Oct 2023 (127 comments) Earlier threads, in case of interest: No Other Love: Letters from Richard Feynman to His Late Wife, Arline - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29681462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29681462 - Dec 2021 (44 comments) Love After Life: Richard Feynman’s Letter to His Departed Wife (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24204678 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24204678 - Aug 2020 (1 comment) Richard Feynman's Extraordinary Letter to His Departed Wife - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19280764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19280764 - March 2019 (12 comments) Feynman's Letter to His Wife - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10375283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10375283 - Oct 2015 (60 comments) Richard Feynman’s Love Letter to His Wife Sixteen Months After Her Death - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7893757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7893757 - June 2014 (1 comment) Feynman: I love my wife. My wife is dead. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4178368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4178368 - June 2012 (2 comments)
- patcon 2y ago
  REPOSTED from deleted top level comment. @dang I'm seeing that it was posted 7 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37914958 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37914958 I appreciate the rules, but am very disappointed. There are some incredibly moving comments in here. I rarely feel as connected to the hacker news community as when reading these comments. The fact that it was erased off the front page for some rigid application of the rules, that leaves me with a bad taste. For your consideration in the next cycle: pls consider valence of comments when determining dupes. If there is either an unfolding of (1) very valuable and new information, or (2) very sincere and vulnerable feelings, people might appreciate your bending the rules. thanks for considering
  - jll29 2y ago
    Dang is a fantastic moderator (thanks for your services, @dang!), and yet I also agree with the parent poster that this thread has been special. [No good rule without worthy exceptions ;-).]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pard68 2y ago
Not a knock on Feynman, but he did re-marry in '52, which ended in divorce a few years later and then married a third time in '60, and stayed married until his death.
pard68 2y ago
I sometimes think about what my life would be like if my wife passed away. I'm also a father, and sometimes I wonder what life would be like if I lost my entire family. I think I'd have a hard time finding purpose and would either spiral or would become hyper focused in my career. It is amazing. I had the same "best friend" for 20 years, from age 3 until 23, but almost as soon as I set eyes on my wife she became my best friend and became a much deeper and beloved one. I find that much of my motivation in life is because I want the best for her and our children.
scioto 2y ago
This reminds me of John Scalzi's early SF book, Old Man's War. One of the MC's motivations throughout the book was the love of his wife. Apart from the pew-pew aspects, it's one of those stories that can hit you in the feels in the appropriate places. Won't say any more since it'd give away too much.
acbart 2y ago
Ten days from now will mark the one year anniversary of my wife's death. We would have been together for 11 years last November. It's tough. I really understand this letter, I think. You can't stop loving them. Why would you want to? It hurts. I send her Facebook messages, although earlier today it said it couldn't send them. I could write a letter, but that is not how we communicated. I may have to think of some other form of "communication" soon. An email, perhaps.
- smeej 2y ago
  FWIW, I still "call" my sister. I pick up the phone and dial it. Pop my earbuds in. Then I just hit the button to lock the phone instead of the one to call the number. And we talk. It's been 6.5 years since she was alive to answer the phone, but my heart knows her voice and what she would say. I don't always actually dial the actual phone these days, but we still catch up.
AlbertCory 2y ago
I hosted Shaun Usher, the author of Letters of Note, at Google: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg7LRg2NAfM&list=PL4ugKP-T4LYu0UyTzj3FeSDW1zSZUADju&index=7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg7LRg2NAfM&list=PL4ugKP-T4L... I had Googlers pick a letter out of the book and read it aloud. I don't think we did that one, though. There are a lot of moving and occasionally funny letters in that book and it'd make a great gift for someone. Interestingly enough, Shaun courted his wife entirely by pen-and-paper letters, and this was well after the Internet era.
zeroonetwothree 2y ago
Did anyone else guess it was Feynman before clicking?
sheepybloke 2y ago
One book that was helpful for me after my dad died was Garson Kieler's book "Good Poems for Hard Times" [1]. It's a beautiful anthology of poems that helps with working through life, loss, and grief. Each time I open it, a different poem speaks to me and has helped me grapple not only with my loss, but with my own life. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39690.Good_Poems_for_Hard_Times https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39690.Good_Poems_for_Har...
Daub 2y ago
I have been down this road, but the lessons I learn are not the obvious ones. My wife died in chikdbirth, so it was a double whammy. She was in some respects my soulmate, but she was also one of the most difficult people I have ever know. Had she not doed, I absolutely know that there is zero chance that we would still be together as a family. We need to tell those we have lost that we have loved them. We also need to thank them and apologize to them. Here is Asia it is easier to talk with the dead, for which I am grateful. However, I eventually learned to accept that we also need to know how to tell them to fuck off and leave us alone. If we fail to learn this, then we pass on their ghosts to those who we go on to love.
space_oddity 2y ago
Coping with the death of a loved one is an unbearable task for me. They say that time heals. In my case, time does not heal; it allows me to forget more often that the person is no longer there. And to forget the constant feeling of missing them

450 points by tu7001 2y ago

It's beautiful :))

Somewhat related: http://www.rosenfels.org/Feynman http://www.rosenfels.org/Feynman After the war, Feynman got a "D" from an army psychological evaluation because he, among other things, told the psychiatrist that he occasionally talks to his late wife. "Thinks people talk about him. Thinks people stare at him. Auditory hypnogogic hallucinations. Talks to self. Talks to deceased wife."

romwell 2y ago
Well, people sure do talk about him, he was on point there. That's what we're doing now! And why wouldn't he talk to himself? Clearly it would be a conversation with a much more interesting person than most people around him (and yes, I'm aware he worked on the Manhattan Project and the Challenger investigation).
_yb2s 2y ago
It’s incredible that they are so out of touch they see healthy introspection, and love as mental illness. This reminds me of when I had an actual bacterial infection, couldn’t get my Dr to prescribe antibiotics for it, so I got some on my own and they worked. When I pulled my medical records I saw in my chart something like “inappropriate off label use of prescription medications.”
- redblacktree 2y ago
  How did you pull your medical records?
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    I believe it's a legal right to request them. I sent them an official form requesting them, and they sent them to me, as I wanted to transfer my old records to a new doctor. These were old style records, nowadays most of that stuff will be automatically on some type of web portal.
  - f1refly 2y ago
    I think you can just ask your doctor for them? Why would someone deny you your own medical records?
    - redblacktree 2y ago
      I wasn't thinking that it would be denied. My curiosity was more with respect to how easy or difficult it is to request them.
- therobots927 2y ago
  How did you acquire the antibiotics?
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    In this case I already had them- I had previously pulled a muscle that was causing a lot of pain, and a doctor inappropriately prescribed me a course of antibiotics for a physical injury that couldn't possibly be an infection, so I never took them. It really grates me that numerous times I've been inappropriately prescribed antibiotics- but the one time I had a dangerous and debilitating bacterial infection I was unable to obtain them. However many human safe antibiotics are legal to buy for animal use, and many countries sell oral antibiotics for human use over the counter without a prescription. Please- if anyone is reading this, don't use antibiotics inappropriately. Ideally work with a doctor,but if not make sure you actually need them, and you take a full course in the proper dose to avoid creating dangerous resistant strains.
    - therobots927 2y ago
      Yeah I don’t want to use them inappropriately. That being said I’ve gotten strep recently a couple times, and both times I wished I just had a few to start taking if the symptoms came on at night or over a weekend. That being said last time I had a sore throat it turned out to be Covid, and I was convinced I had strep again. So if I had my own antibiotics it’s possible I would’ve taken them inappropriately.
protastus 2y ago
I see two sides to this story. By his own account, Feynman thought the psychiatrist was a bullshitter (I can see his point), turned the interview around, trolled him and presented a clearly adversarial attitude.

huskdigselv 2y ago

What a turbulence of emotions and thoughts this invokes in me; I envy this guys beautiful and rich love for his wife, since I haven't felt similar myself. Simultaneously I also really feel for him and the grief and miss that comes from losing someone you love; I still somewhat often talk to my mother who passed to remind her that I still think of her and out of love. These emotions are ambiguously painful and meaningful.

nbgoodall 2y ago

"PS Please excuse my not mailing this — but I don’t know your new address." That hit hard.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jb1991 2y ago

I did not know Feynman was responsible for finding the cause of the Challenger explosion. That's remarkable on top of everything else he did.

scrlk 2y ago
It's worth reading Feynman's Personal Observations on Reliability of Shuttle, published as part of the Rogers Commission Report. https://www.nasa.gov/history/rogersrep/v2appf.htm https://www.nasa.gov/history/rogersrep/v2appf.htm > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
syncsynchalt 2y ago
It has come out more recently (2019) that Sally Ride was putting him on the trail. He acted the irascible dogged investigating scientist, and she got the astronauts' worries about shuttle program specifics out to the public.
dotnet00 2y ago
He was involved in the investigation committee, but of course wasn't the only one there. IIRC Neil Armstrong was also on the committee. I figure that part of the point of choosing them was to lend the committee credibility with the public. The public would probably trust that the findings were above board if they were supported by the first man on the Moon and one of the most prominent physicists of the time.
kelnos 2y ago
To add to what others said, I believe his biggest contribution to the Challenger investigation (beyond his insight and damning conclusions) was that he refused to censor himself and his report for political or public-relations reasons. IIRC he said if he weren't allowed to publish his part of the report in the way he wanted, the commission was to remove his name from the report entirely, because he didn't want to be associated with a report that pulled punches.

irusensei 2y ago

Having the feels over an HN post was not in my list today.

mrweasel 2y ago

On one hand I am happy that we have things like Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, on the other I feel that peoples private and unpublished writings should be kept private. It's reasonable enough to let a limited number of researchers access private documents, but the broader public, no. This isn't a letter meant for us, it's not meant for anyone to read and I feel that publishing it is a little disrespectful.

donatj 2y ago
Après moi, le déluge. After I am dead, publish everything, correspondence, search history, location history, nude photos. I am dead, I cannot care.
- nick__m 2y ago
  Correspondences usually involve at least another person so please wait until both side are dead before publishing everything.
- rpigab 2y ago
  You won't care, but the living will. Funerals aren't meant for the deceased, they allow the living to mourn and move on. It may be irrational fears, but living people often fear what's gonna happen to them after they die, and respect for people extends after they die for most people. Not for everyone, but this means that some will feel uncomfortable about sharing private stuff. And then there's also superstition.
  - strken 2y ago
    Speaking only for myself, it has been invaluable to have access to the private papers of people like my great grandfather. It provides a real connection to a man, time, and place which I couldn't know in person. Perhaps publishing everything is a step too far, but things like semi-private diaries from a war or a voyage --- intended for immediate family to read, but not for publication --- are often okay to publish within living memory of the deceased. Sufficiently chaste love letters seem to me to be okay after a long enough time has elapsed, too.

throw0101c 2y ago

A little longer (76 pages), but A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis is also worth checking out: * http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/PDFs/GriefObserved_CSL.pdf http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/PDFs/GriefObserved_CSL.pd... (Canada public domain) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Grief_Observed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Grief_Observed * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26077627-a-grief-observed https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26077627-a-grief-observe...

dano 2y ago
This is a worthwhile read. Grief is really not as cut and dried as it's sometimes made out to be. As Lewis came around to understanding, and perhaps Feynman too, we had something special, something grand, and to remember is comforting.
sheepybloke 2y ago
Second this book! I read this at the behest of my wife after my dad died of cancer, and was really impactful for me.

strenholme 2y ago

My wife died 10 years ago, so I understand that pain. Dealing with death is never easy. The thing I miss most about my wife is the depth of emotional connection; she knew everything about me being very deeply in love with me and everything I did really mattered to her. It has taken me nearly 10 years to build a network of friends who can give me comparable levels of socialization and attention; I have about two dozen very close friends (both male and female) across the world now and it’s finally enough to replace the hole in my life I had which my wife used to fill. I can see why Feynman became sexually promiscuous afterwards, undoubtedly to numb the pain of losing his wife; seduction allowed him to have a form of that connection, albeit without the depth and love of what he had with his wife. While that path looked appealing to me, I do not regret avoiding that temptation.

cyberlurker 2y ago
I mean this seriously. Why not both? I don’t see the problem with having multiple types of relationships with people, including sex. As long as everyone is on the same page (consensual, they know it’s casual, etc.) Sorry for your loss and glad you’re doing better.
- mycologos 2y ago
  I don't think strenholme is saying that those casual relationships are morally wrong, but that they're only facsimiles of the connection found in a deep and long relationship (especially one formed when young), and that pursuing facsimiles maybe brings you close enough to the original that you keep pursuing, but not close enough to ever approximate the original, and if what you miss is the original, then this is not a path to satisfaction.
  - graemep 2y ago
    Interesting point, but surely the reasoning that they are "only facsimiles of the connection found in a deep and long relationship" is a major argument for regarding them as morally wrong? If you believe you have a moral duty to be the best person you can then passing up that opportunity in favour of the facsimiles is morally wrong.

4ggr0 2y ago

As someone in my first real realtionship of 5+ years[0] with someone I love more than I could ever have imagined, this hits pretty hard... I know it's a bit cliche and cringe to say, but my partner really did become my best friend. If I feel bad, the first thing I search for is being close and talking to them. We understand and support each other completely and do random things together, like described in the letter. We'll move in together in about a year, loosing them would probably rock me really hard and I currently can't imagine who I'd use as emotional support, as the person in question would be gone. May we happily be together for a long time <3 [0] only realized now that i've been with them for almost all of my adult life (yes, not that old).

medstrom 2y ago
It's an almost universal feeling, "I can't imagine who I'd use as emotional support", but if you end things I promise that you will find someone again. Not a replacement, but not a knockoff either, just different.
- coldtea 2y ago
  Some people don't find someone as good again though. Good spouses/friends/etc are not that replaceable. Or rather, they're replacable practically, but the new persons are not necessarily offering the same level of connection.
  - medstrom 2y ago
    You used an interesting view of "practical" :) Deep connection is not just some bonus, I think, but in fact the main practical thing about a relationship. So I share your concern, but even so I'm not that worried. The deeper a connection you've been able to forge in the past, the better your chances of forging another deep connection.
    - coldtea 2y ago
      This is twofold I think. If having had a deep connection happened because you are in general someone easily capable of deep connection, it would be indeed easier to connect deeply again. But if having a deep connection happened despite you not being such a person, but, e.g., because the person you lost had an equally rare disposition as you, or you lived through special circumstances that bonded you more deeply, it's probably harder to replicate this.

robviren 2y ago

Man, when the analytical minded come to grips with emotions it always hits hard for me. I love that he reflects on the impractically of his own thoughts and just accepts how he feels. This love letter hits hard

MrDresden 2y ago

Half way through reading that, I stopped and sent my partner a message telling them how much I love and respect them. They have recently passed the 5 year survival mark after a cancer diagnosis and treatment, and are coming up on 3 years for their second different cancer diagnosis and treatment. None of us knows how much time we have ourselves or with our loved ones, so make the most of it in the moment.

coldtea 2y ago

People appreciating this letter might also appreciate "A crow look at me" by Mount Eerie (a one-person music project), written by Phil just after his wife died of cancer, and dealing with it. Here's an example track: https://genius.com/Mount-eerie-real-death-lyrics https://genius.com/Mount-eerie-real-death-lyrics

moolcool 2y ago
That entire album is such a massive emotional gut-punch.
patcon 2y ago
THANK YOU. I'm listening to this now, and deciding what is appropriate to share with my family <3
exitb 2y ago
Just a note that the album represents a much more raw and unprocessed point of view - I wouldn't recommend it to anyone dealing with a recent loss.
1stub 2y ago
This may be the most gut-wrenching album ever created. Gets me every time.

LogHouse 2y ago

> You, dead, are so much better than anyone else alive. Beautiful. Leave this mark on someone.

hsuduebc2 2y ago

That's hard.

patcon 2y ago

This is beautiful. And not just beautiful, but true, I think. I've been working through thoughts about my dead mother the past few months, in concert with a new partner in my life who also lost her mother. We've been working through some thoughts... somewhat related to an information-theoretic view of death. Here's an excerpt of something I wrote on the topic[1] in 2018: > [snip] So anyhow, as I’m sitting in on this session [about IETF multistakeholder internet governance], and I’m realizing that what we’re really trying to figure out with internet governance is how to govern a complex system. So it’s perhaps less internet governance, but rather network governance. And so what patterns have we seen in other systems, that deals with this challenge of creating space for new participants, while honouring the history of past participants? > And this lead to some interesting thoughts on the big pattern that often goes unspoken: Death. > ### DEATH IS HEGEMONIC. > It may sound funny to describe death as a pattern. We often talk about it like it’s this fact of existence. And it might as well be. It’s omnipresent. Pretty much every living thing we know of, dies. It has prevailed in all living networks, through countless iterations. Death is hegemonic. > But what about death might be selected for? How does it benefit the network? Perhaps it’s best to imagine this first at the scale of individual personal relationships. That’s simpler, and I believe the reasoning is portable up to larger social scales. > Imagine how we might have moved on from Newtonian physics if that intellectual heavy-weight Newton were still alive and influential within the network. One could imagine that it might be difficult. Newton’s thinking was clever, but we also understand it to be misguided by today’s measure. In a world without death, new ideas would have to grapple and contend not just with static ideas and information, but with the dynamic and increasingly stubborn minds that birthed them. (This [stubbornness and confidence](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c3ef/2811b280c069c6a99d66e4eee34233e310f7.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c3ef/2811b280c069c6a99d66e4...) of age, is perhaps another selected pattern, with it’s own subtle network rationale, but I digress.) > Instead, the mind of an organism dies, and leaves information scattered throughout the human network in the form of static reference — in the minds of family and peers, in blog posts and newspaper articles, in books and distorted recollections. > So how would one describe the pattern of death? Through an unsentimental network lens, we could perhaps think about it as a data compression or noise reduction tactic of the larger evolving system. Or at a more human scale, we could imagine it as a process by which organisms go from the role of __living dynamic actors__ to become __static references__. > While the Newton example is on a worldly stage, there’s perhaps another example that’s more on the personal level. You can imagine this same dynamic playing in the relations between parents and children. The death of a parent, tragic as it is, is an opportunity for this complex character to move from __actor__ to __reference__ in the minds of their children. This memory is now open to healthy reinterpretation, which perhaps gives their ideas and actions more meaning than when they were alive. A static reference of a human, whether it’s a memory or a book or an article, becomes a bare skeleton picked clean, on which to hang new ideas and emotions and reflections. > After death, what remains is an abstraction — a simplification of the human who once was. But this abstraction can be re-imagined and built upon by the folks who follow. > And maybe this is healthy. Maybe this makes for healthy societies, with the right balance of new imaginings and old wisdoms on which to hang them. I have a hard time with death. I don't think of my mother as much as I'd like. But in the past few weeks, I've started writing to her in an empty group chat that goes to no one. I've been going through old emails and replying to all the messages I never responded to, which have previously been the source of a lot of shame. And it's really helping me. It's like she's continuing to grow with me, and me with her. And not just that, but it's helping me override the version of her (the broken versions, the sick versions) that overrepresent my recollections of her in the months before her death. In writing and communing with her, even in her absence, my relationship with her in growing, and she is growing too. And she's more alive in my conversations with my living family. And I'm reflecting my daily interactions and decisions through her consideration. It's very strange. I feel like I've been reintroduced to my mother. And it's also leading me to odd thoughts. Is every departure or absence of the true and active physical form (not just in death) a chance to consider someone like this. Can I share secret thoughts with a new love, with an imagined version of them, since the flesh-and-blood version of them would be scared of my sharing such things with them? Can I treat the living as dead in some ways, to shape them in my mind just as much as I might shape them later in the real world? Is this what we're always doing implicitly, when we build models of one another an empathize and imagine what they might do, in the spaces between when we have access to them? And what might we be losing in the world when we never have these absences, when we are never disconnected, never far enough away to grow alongside the imagined version of our loved ones, rather than trying to grow only with the actual biological one? Anyhow, thanks for hearing me out on these thoughts. I will imagine a reader as entertained and grateful, until you choose to reveal yourself otherwise <3 [1]: https://medium.com/@patcon/reflections-on-the-evolved-pattern-of-death-and-what-it-might-mean-for-governance-7dfdd0df9f09 https://medium.com/@patcon/reflections-on-the-evolved-patter...

DoreenMichele 2y ago

Richard Feynman: Physicist and bon vivant. I think that's why he's so interesting to people. He defies the stereotypes we have for a nerdy intellectual that suggests smart people don't know how to have fun or socialize or love...etc.

dang 2y ago

Reposts are fine after a year or so but this topic had a major thread within the last year, so the current post counts as a dupe by HN's standard. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html. Love after life: Richard Feynman's letter to his departed wife (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37914958 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37914958 - Oct 2023 (127 comments) Earlier threads, in case of interest: No Other Love: Letters from Richard Feynman to His Late Wife, Arline - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29681462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29681462 - Dec 2021 (44 comments) Love After Life: Richard Feynman’s Letter to His Departed Wife (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24204678 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24204678 - Aug 2020 (1 comment) Richard Feynman's Extraordinary Letter to His Departed Wife - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19280764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19280764 - March 2019 (12 comments) Feynman's Letter to His Wife - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10375283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10375283 - Oct 2015 (60 comments) Richard Feynman’s Love Letter to His Wife Sixteen Months After Her Death - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7893757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7893757 - June 2014 (1 comment) Feynman: I love my wife. My wife is dead. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4178368 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4178368 - June 2012 (2 comments)

patcon 2y ago
REPOSTED from deleted top level comment. @dang I'm seeing that it was posted 7 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37914958 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37914958 I appreciate the rules, but am very disappointed. There are some incredibly moving comments in here. I rarely feel as connected to the hacker news community as when reading these comments. The fact that it was erased off the front page for some rigid application of the rules, that leaves me with a bad taste. For your consideration in the next cycle: pls consider valence of comments when determining dupes. If there is either an unfolding of (1) very valuable and new information, or (2) very sincere and vulnerable feelings, people might appreciate your bending the rules. thanks for considering
- jll29 2y ago
  Dang is a fantastic moderator (thanks for your services, @dang!), and yet I also agree with the parent poster that this thread has been special. [No good rule without worthy exceptions ;-).]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

pard68 2y ago

Not a knock on Feynman, but he did re-marry in '52, which ended in divorce a few years later and then married a third time in '60, and stayed married until his death.

pard68 2y ago

I sometimes think about what my life would be like if my wife passed away. I'm also a father, and sometimes I wonder what life would be like if I lost my entire family. I think I'd have a hard time finding purpose and would either spiral or would become hyper focused in my career. It is amazing. I had the same "best friend" for 20 years, from age 3 until 23, but almost as soon as I set eyes on my wife she became my best friend and became a much deeper and beloved one. I find that much of my motivation in life is because I want the best for her and our children.

scioto 2y ago

This reminds me of John Scalzi's early SF book, Old Man's War. One of the MC's motivations throughout the book was the love of his wife. Apart from the pew-pew aspects, it's one of those stories that can hit you in the feels in the appropriate places. Won't say any more since it'd give away too much.

acbart 2y ago

Ten days from now will mark the one year anniversary of my wife's death. We would have been together for 11 years last November. It's tough. I really understand this letter, I think. You can't stop loving them. Why would you want to? It hurts. I send her Facebook messages, although earlier today it said it couldn't send them. I could write a letter, but that is not how we communicated. I may have to think of some other form of "communication" soon. An email, perhaps.

smeej 2y ago
FWIW, I still "call" my sister. I pick up the phone and dial it. Pop my earbuds in. Then I just hit the button to lock the phone instead of the one to call the number. And we talk. It's been 6.5 years since she was alive to answer the phone, but my heart knows her voice and what she would say. I don't always actually dial the actual phone these days, but we still catch up.

AlbertCory 2y ago

I hosted Shaun Usher, the author of Letters of Note, at Google: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg7LRg2NAfM&list=PL4ugKP-T4LYu0UyTzj3FeSDW1zSZUADju&index=7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg7LRg2NAfM&list=PL4ugKP-T4L... I had Googlers pick a letter out of the book and read it aloud. I don't think we did that one, though. There are a lot of moving and occasionally funny letters in that book and it'd make a great gift for someone. Interestingly enough, Shaun courted his wife entirely by pen-and-paper letters, and this was well after the Internet era.

zeroonetwothree 2y ago

Did anyone else guess it was Feynman before clicking?

sheepybloke 2y ago

One book that was helpful for me after my dad died was Garson Kieler's book "Good Poems for Hard Times" [1]. It's a beautiful anthology of poems that helps with working through life, loss, and grief. Each time I open it, a different poem speaks to me and has helped me grapple not only with my loss, but with my own life. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39690.Good_Poems_for_Hard_Times https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39690.Good_Poems_for_Har...

Daub 2y ago

I have been down this road, but the lessons I learn are not the obvious ones. My wife died in chikdbirth, so it was a double whammy. She was in some respects my soulmate, but she was also one of the most difficult people I have ever know. Had she not doed, I absolutely know that there is zero chance that we would still be together as a family. We need to tell those we have lost that we have loved them. We also need to thank them and apologize to them. Here is Asia it is easier to talk with the dead, for which I am grateful. However, I eventually learned to accept that we also need to know how to tell them to fuck off and leave us alone. If we fail to learn this, then we pass on their ghosts to those who we go on to love.

space_oddity 2y ago

Coping with the death of a loved one is an unbearable task for me. They say that time heals. In my case, time does not heal; it allows me to forget more often that the person is no longer there. And to forget the constant feeling of missing them