8 ms·
Show HN: Openkoda – Open–source, private, Salesforce alternative
- vantubbe 2y agoHow would this compare with something like goHighLevel?
- mgl 2y agoThanks for this question. I understand that goHighLevel is a closed marketing application platform, whilst Openkoda is an open-source enterprise application platform with pre-built application templates for a quick start in specific industries (now: insurance and realestate, more to come).
- tcdent 2y agoAnybody have recommendations for similar projects written in Python? Curious to know the motivations for choosing Java in this case.
- creaktive 2y agoSalesforce is customized in something called Apex, which is a dialect of Java. Would make migration/integration more convenient
- vips7L 2y agoIts like Java 5 mashed with some C# and then they've added their own syntax changes on top for custom salesforce things.
- fire_lake 2y agoPython is significantly more resource heavy than Java. This is not a notebook or quick script. What would Python offer here?
- evantbyrne 2y agoObjectively, very little probably. Non-java shops tend to avoid it because java codebases have a reputation for being relatively complicated. Java is a great language though and it may very well be the best cultural fit for the type of org that _actually likes_ salesforce. They also seem to be publishing a docker image, so it shouldn't be difficult for non-java orgs to integrate.
- OutOfHere 2y agoPython is more resource heavy than Java for CPU, but not for memory. I am pretty sure that Java is more resource heavy for memory. Also, Java programmers have the habit of using excessive abstractions that don't solve real problems.
- bfmalky 2y agoI would guess java was chosen for its high quality libraries, efficient runtime and its static typing, which enables easy and safe refactoring.
- mgl 2y agoExactly this. We find modern Java to be ubiquitous, fast, and (still) super popular in enterprise environments.
- likeafox 2y ago[Odoo is Python based](https://github.com/odoo/odoo https://github.com/odoo/odoo) and the 'core' modules are open - Not providing any endorsement of the software nor can I say how the Odoo CRM/CMS compares to Salesforce. I've tried migrating a non Salesforce business to Odoo twice and haven't had success yet.
- bnchrch 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jrklabs_com 2y agoYes, I haven't used this myself yet but I have been keeping my eye on this project for a while now, https://erpnext.com/ https://erpnext.com/ The Frappe framework that is the foundation of ERP Next can be used to extend the ERP platform or build standalone apps.
- greenchair 2y agoprobably because java owns the enterprise space.
- drondin 2y agoI can recommend https://github.com/frappe/frappe https://github.com/frappe/frappe as a general engine, https://github.com/frappe/erpnext https://github.com/frappe/erpnext is a full blown CRM/ERP built on top of it
- candiddevmike 2y agoLast commit is 2 months ago? Are you still building it?
- mgl 2y agoYes, absolutely - the next release is scheduled for June, our current development cycle (which may not be ideal) is based on internal builds and testing before public release. The main reason is that there are e.g. insurance companies out there and whilst well, it's still open-source, we would not like to break anything for them.
- ActionHank 2y agoCurious what testing is covered that you don't have automated as part of the CI?
- mgl 2y agoThese are mainly either integration tests with hard-to-automate third-party platforms and tests in more complex multi-tenant deployment scenarios. There is also the Enterprise version which is developed in parallel with the open-source Core edition. Being a small team we just found it was easier to phase the release schedule.
- hellcow 2y agoCould you merge consistently and just cut stable releases on a scheduled cadence?
- mgl 2y agoYes, that's a good point - actually we were discussing this option (again!) just last week as we are cautious of not-that-frequent public releases.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- creaktive 2y agoI was just complaining to my partner about the OG Salesforce… I feel extra inspired to check this out!
- mgl 2y agoThanks, I really appreciate your words! When talking to our users (and clients - as we customize Openkoda for enterprise companies building their bespoke applications as well) so many of them are tired of Salesforce being: a) slow, b) limited, c) expensive (probably in this order).
- llmblockchain 2y agoIn true enterprise fashion, they went with Java. Enterprise, confirmed.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- manuelabeledo 2y agoHonest question, what's wrong with Java? It's performant, has mature libraries, good documentation, and supported pretty much everywhere.
- promptingmetosi 2y agoThere's plenty I'd like to improve but it's honestly in a very good shape. There's a reason enterprise picks Java - it's battle tested and there are enough quality developers around. Frameworks like Spring for webdev are top notch. Unless you've got a very specific reason to pick something else (python or rust or whatever) Java is the safe bet (along with c# but Java is an order of magnitude bigger I think). It's just people taking memes seriously. Java is great and continuously improving.
- xuancanh 2y agoIt's not just a meme. The developer experience in Java is worse compared to some other popular programming languages like JavaScript, Go, Python, etc. The language is a bit verbose, and the compiling speed is slow, hence the development speed is slower. Java developers tend to overly abstract things, so the code tends to be unnecessarily complicated. The JVM also has a high memory footprint, the startup speed is slow, and it requires warming up the JIT. Some popular libraries and frameworks overuse reflection and annotation, they are nice to use but are nightmares to debug when issues happen. This is why GraalVM and Kotlin have been gaining popularity recently, as they aim to address several issues with the JVM and Java. The biggest strengths of Java are its ecosystem and community.
- 2y ago
- tootie 2y agoIs this meant to be a drop-in replacement for Salesforce or just another CRM? There's a built-in advantage to choosing the tool that everybody uses and that's compatibility. If you look at 1000 data integration or marketing automation tools on the market, 1000 of them will have OOTB integration with Salesforce as a selling feature. Just to be realistic, building a better CRM won't be enough to replace Salesforce.
- mateus1 2y agoNothing can be a drop-in replacement for Salesforce as it is designed almost exclusively to lock-in customers.
- citizenpaul 2y agoSalesforce is a case study in how rich dark patterns can make you.
- mgl 2y agoSalesforce nowadays is more a universal, business application platform. Closed, proprietary, with user-based pricing model.
- octopoc 2y agoStandardization can be good, but when the entire industry standardizes on the same processes how can anyone differentiate themselves?
- grepLeigh 2y agoSalesforce's biggest value proposition is the partner ecosystem, which Salesforce has cultivated for like 20+ years. Some platform companies (Shopify comes to mind) cannibalize their plugin ecosystem by adding similar functionality to the core platform, but Salesforce deliberately avoids competing with software/services in the partner ecosystem. It's such a safe bet to build on top of Salesforce, because there's basically 0 platform risk and the technology is ubiquitous. What's your approach to plugins, add-ons, and service partners?
- echelon 2y ago> Some platform companies (Shopify comes to mind) cannibalize their plugin ecosystem by adding similar functionality to the core platform, but Salesforce deliberately avoids competing with software/services in the partner ecosystem When do you compete, and when do you cultivate? Are some business sectors better at one versus the other?
- eddythompson80 2y agoAlso insert the standard HN comment of “I can’t believe it’s [CURRENT_YEAR] and this functionality isn’t part of the core platform itself”
- mgl 2y agoWe actively look for service/technology partners, so if you want to build an application or extension on top of Openkoda for you or your clients we would be more than happy. Openkoda Core is released under MIT license, so we have no means to stop you!
- toomuchtodo 2y agoShould chat with the folks at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40469773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40469773, your system could be a potential integration target.
- finnh 2y agoI am not sure I'd agree with that - at one point Salesforce tried to buy my company, which was a best-of-the-AppExchange partner, and their justification for their (very) low offer was "that's what it would cost us to copy you". We sold the company 2 years later for 10x their offer, without a ton in the way of new revenue (our AppExchange ranking mysteriously tanked after we turned down their offer).
- righthand 2y agoSo a CRM that replicates Salesforce APIs? Sales people don’t want a Salesforce FOSS version, that’s why they green light salesforce. It’s about trend not practical software. Only dev teams that have been implementing Salesforce for 5 years want a FOSS version.
- mgl 2y agoSalesforce is a generic application platform today, and this is how see it. Openkoda is not a drop-in replacement for Salesforce CRM, it is a useful replacement when you want to build your core business application a) retaining full source code ownership and ability to get any Java/JS team to work on it and run anywhere you want, b) without becoming dependent on technology and commercial limitations of working with big S.
- imachine1980_ 2y ago>Salesforce is a generic application platform today Not is standard. You need to train your costumer in this interface you can simply contract employees who knows Salesforce.
- somat 2y agoI don't know much about salesforce, but if it is anything like every other "enterprise" grade software every installation is a special unique snowflake and you have to train the people on it anyway... Or more realistically you give them a 5 minute overview and let them flounder away a few weeks hating the infernal thing while they try and figure it out.
- nathantotten 2y agoPeople don’t build applications on Salesforce because it’s a generic platform, they build on it because they need to integrate with the sales/crm process/data/etc. Edit: To be clear, I’m not saying your idea isn’t good. There is tons of room for this stuff, but be careful in assuming the reason devs use Salesforce platform is because of the features. It’s usually not. Source: I ran dev tools at Salesforce.
- 999900000999 2y agoLooks cool, but honestly what companies need a Salesforce like too but can't afford Salesforce force ? I'm still have to host this thing somewhere, if I'm bootstraping a startup I might as well rely on Excel until I can afford Salesforce. I like the project though. Best of luck.
- mgl 2y agoThat's a great question and we have great answers from actual clients - the repeating pattern goes as follows: "We invested three years building this app, it's a booming success, but their user-based pricing is killing us" "We can't run complex queries" "It's too slow" "We feel our data is stuck there" "I want to own my code and my application" "Why do I need to use APEX where we use Java and JS everywhere else in the company"
- 999900000999 2y agoOkay so this isn't really for end users, it's not for Billy Bob's shop which needs to use Salesforce to track cupcake orders, but rather a vendor who would sell Salesforce like software to Billy Bob with some light customization on top. Understood, thank you for your answer and I wish you the best of luck!
- mgl 2y agoHonestly, I don't think there are many (revenue speaking) Billy Bob's shops using Salesforce to track their cupcake orders out there.
- 999900000999 2y agoBad example, but generally this is more of a framework for building Sales tracking software vs a direct Salesforce competitor, right?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 2y ago
- snagglemouth 2y agoYou already posted a Show HN like 10 days ago. Why are you posting again?
- loa_observer 2y agoA post get more than 100 upvotes within one hour with no real source code and very few commits. I really doubt where the votes come from.
- kstrauser 2y agoMore than that: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=openkoda https://hn.algolia.com/?q=openkoda @dang, this person's spamming us with marketing links.
- llsf 2y agoConsidering the tag line "Ready-to-use development platform that accelerates the process of building business applications and internal tools", I would think OpenKoda would compete with Retool more than Salesforce, no ?
- beachy 2y agoWhere can one find the breakdown of features on the free vs enterprise versions?
- nutrie 2y agoSadly, I doubt anybody's going to beat Salesforce and other crap such as Workday unless it's the same crap selling under a different name. Corporate people want their featurez.
- mgl 2y agoThe good news here is that they are many businesses out of there which a) need an enterprise solution (data protection, dedicated cloud, multi-tenancy), b) have complex data processing patterns (think: underwriting a property policy with cyclone/flood coverage), and c) don't have an unlimited budget. I would leave corporations to work with corporations if they are really happy working together, but the world is much greater than that (them!).
- nutrie 2y agoWhile I agree with you, you're missing my point :) I was talking about procurement practices.
- mgl 2y agoThank you for such an overwhelming reception, we truly appreciate your comments and been sharing your feedback back and forth on our Slack channels today. If you have a strong enterprise use case, I would be super happy to schedule a quick Openkoda demo for you, including all the bells and whistles. Just share a short description and ping me at: mglomba@openkoda.com We are still actively watching this thread and will try to address as many questions as possible.
- arunabha 2y agoMaybe I'm missing it, but I don't see any links to any documentation beyond the surface level. The closest seems to be the technology page at https://openkoda.com/technology/ https://openkoda.com/technology/ which seems to be aiming to sell to budget owners. Nothing wrong with marketing to budget owners, but if the selling point vs Odoo is 'it's easier to build your app on OpenKoda, then deep and detailed developer docs are a must. Documentation is where a lot of the 'new' ERP efforts fall flat and the established players get right. As a purchasing manager, I want to be able to send the landing page to a lead dev and be able to ask them 'Do you think this will work better for upcoming new program XYZ?'. Without stellar documentation, the answer is inevitably going to be 'not sure'.
- mgl 2y agoThank you for your interest! You may want to share the following docs as a good starter: Short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gob4j072Isg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gob4j072Isg 5-min guide: https://github.com/openkoda/openkoda/blob/main/openkoda/doc/5-minute-guide.md https://github.com/openkoda/openkoda/blob/main/openkoda/doc/... Installation: https://github.com/openkoda/openkoda/blob/main/openkoda/doc/installation.md https://github.com/openkoda/openkoda/blob/main/openkoda/doc/...
- arunabha 2y agoThanks for the links. While they are great to get started with, it only highlights my point about comprehensive docs. The starter links are not enough to be able to answer any of the questions that need to be answered before making a bet on a new platform. Not trying to be a downer, but I hope you're able to focus on improving docs in the near future.
- TheNewsIsHere 2y agoWe use Odoo and love it. It would take moving mountains to get us off of it (short of predatory sales/pricing/licensing shenanigans anyway). It is fantastic and truly one of my favorite pieces of software. But man, does Odoo have a convoluted ecosystem. There’s no one place to learn about the product and if you self-host then the documentation might as well not exist for the small number of aggravatingly undocumented adjustments you might need to implement to get it working. They have weird and officially undocumented design decisions that can end up wasting a lot of your time if you don’t have the benefit of having read sometimes years-old public Github issues. It’s not just self-hosting either. Their documentation covers the basics of key modules, and their video training material is great for functional insight. But it’s clear they don’t have anyone who is able or willing to effectively foster a coherent product-wide strategy around documentation, training, and similar enablement must-haves. Ironically, I think the fact that they run so much of their infrastructure on Odoo itself is part of the problem in terms of implementing a better strategy. If you buy an EMR, you won’t use it for HR just because it’s geared toward managing data relating to humans.
- smrtinsert 2y agoUnless I hit governer limits immediately and have to pay thousands per megabyte of storage I wont consider this a viable replacement for Salesforce.
- panyanyany 2y agoAre there any similar projects written in NextJS ?