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Russian trawlers going back and forth in that area… https://x.com/PerErikSchulze/status/1794828268480438514 https://x.com/PerErikSchulze/status/179482826848043

by cjrp 2y ago

Russian trawlers going back and forth in that area… https://x.com/PerErikSchulze/status/1794828268480438514 https://x.com/PerErikSchulze/status/1794828268480438514

the_gipsy 2y ago
While this looks alarming and makes an engaging tweet, I have no idea how regular trawling patterns look like. They might circle around fishing spot.
- mgoetzke 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - HenryBemis 2y ago
    Plausible deniability because it works. As for the fishermen in that boat.. yeah.. totally innocent fishermen, and on that very spot they hit a 'school' of that one fish they were looking for, so they are fishing this 'school' and nothing else sinister going on keep walking (omitting commas on purpose)
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  Dave Barry made a similar observation about antismoking PSAs, objecting to one that had someone throw a diseased lung on a table. He pointed out that you could present any random internal organ and it would look just as bad: "This is what will happen to you if you keep smoking. Look! A perfectly healthy goat kidney!"
  - iopq 2y ago
    I think what had a big impact on me is they show both a healthy lung and a smoker's lung
    - Shrezzing 2y ago
      This was the big one for me too. The juxtaposed healthy versus unhealthy lungs resemble an uncooked chicken versus a roast chicken which was left in the oven for 30 minutes more than necessary. https://www.scotsman.com/webimg/legacy_elm_28724349.jpg?crop=3:2,smart&width=990&quality=65&enable=upscale https://www.scotsman.com/webimg/legacy_elm_28724349.jpg?crop...
      - thaumasiotes 2y ago
        The antismoking PSA that made the strongest impression on me, by far, was the one that showed a grandfather encouraging a baby to take a step. Eventually, the baby starts walking, and rushes over to the grandfather. And through the grandfather, who fades to translucency. It wasn't just me; that PSA made enough of a splash that it was called out on Friends. I've tried to find that PSA in the past, but with no success. Once I asked a friend if they could find it, and the response was "Oh, I know exactly the one you're talking about. I won't help you look for it. I hate that commercial and I don't want to see it again." Looks like it's made it onto youtube by now in glorious 240p: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6pb6XxrbmE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6pb6XxrbmE I note that the second comment is "This commercial was what made my father stop smoking." It's interesting to think about the balance between disturbing the smoking audience so strongly that they stop, and disturbing the non-smoking audience so strongly that they complain about being exposed to your traumatic imagery and imperil your funding.
        immibis 2y ago
        There have been some Oceanic anti-speeding ads that had the same effect on people, apparently. There's one where time freezes right before a collision and the person at fault apologizes for the little boy he's about to murder. There's one where the driver is talking to the ghost of his friend who died in a car crash. There's one where the grim reaper spins a roulette wheel every time a driver makes a mistake at an intersection. There was one where they rewind time, nudge the speedometer slightly lower, and resume normal time, and a fatal accident (pedestrian hit by car) turns into a bruised leg.
  - IndySun 2y ago
    Related, I was struck by a comment made by the respiratory specialist doctor Martin Tobin, during the George Floyd murder court case. He said less than 10% of smokers actually go on to get 'issues'. He was pushing back on the line that as a smoker, George Floyd was more prone to react badly to 'having a knee on his windpipe...' you know the rest. I did rewind and listen again then look up what he was saying and indeed, my assumed knowledge of smoking was altered. Apologies for my vagueness with 'issues', I don't want to under or over state what he said and right now I can't locate the exact sentence within the days of testimony. This man... https://archive.is/x5MRY https://archive.is/x5MRY
    - IndySun 2y ago
      For anyone curious, I found the relevant sentence. An astonishingly counterintuitive almost throwaway remark by a world's expert sent me on a deep dive on what else can and does cause lung problems. Dr Martin Tobin says it at 3h 02m 40s... https://www.c-span.org/video/?510467-1/derek-chauvin-trial-death-george-floyd-day-9-part-1 https://www.c-span.org/video/?510467-1/derek-chauvin-trial-d...
      - alexeldeib 2y ago
        What was your takeaway? Any added insights/reading?
        ikiris 2y ago
        Radon is scary, and surprisingly everywhere in some regions.
        IndySun 2y ago
        I am aware there is a lot of complexity (obviously) in why people develop lung cancer, or any illness for that matter, but within that assumption was smoking being far worse than it actually is. Reading further, and this may also seem obvious written out in this simple form, the cancer numbers for people in homes using coal burning for cooking food varies hugely depending on the coal. And that the incidence of lung cancers in 'never-smokers' is rising rapidly globally.
  - ltbarcly3 2y ago
    Thats what they do. Those lungs are fake, sold by medical supply companies. They just take a healthy pig lung and dye it black and burn holes in it for "tumors". You can google for places to buy them.
    - ltbarcly3 2y ago
      I'm pretty sure there is some of automated brigading, every post I make gets modded down for no reason. Why mod this down? It's just a fact that is easily verifiable. It had been voted up to 2 or 3, then very quickly went to 0. Very odd. https://www.fishersci.com/shop/products/smokers-lungs-kit-2/p-2371109 https://www.fishersci.com/shop/products/smokers-lungs-kit-2/... "These inflatable swine lungs have been stained realistically and then specially preserved in odorless, nontoxic solution that retains the texture and elasticity of fresh lungs."
goodcanadian 2y ago
That's what trawling is . . . it is completely normally for a trawler to go back and forth like that.
- LysPJ 2y ago
  But not over a cable. Submarine cables are clearly marked on nautical charts, and even recreational boaters know not to anchor in those areas. A professional trawler captain is not going to accidentally trawl over such an area.
  - AlecSchueler 2y ago
    Fishers are infamous for flaunting the rules though. I think we can only judge this if we see records of other ships in the area.
    - giarc 2y ago
      You can, at least at that specific time that all other boats were not trawling over cables.
  - vidarh 2y ago
    There's a big difference in seriousness between being able to show whether they were likely doing something they shouldn't be doing for the sake of making more money on the fishing, vs. if they were doing what they were doing with the intent of causing damage, though. But of course, that difficulty is also exactly why it'd also be a great way for an adversary to damage your cables.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      means motive opportunity -- 3 for 3 given the use cases re: satellites on the island, and the continuing cold-yet-increasing tensions with Russia, it's absolutely reasonable to make that assumption maybe they'll try to blame this on Ukraine like they tried with the undersea pipelines that got blown up, too
rasz 2y ago
I mean, clearly "lack of evidence"! >After an inital investigation, the police dropped the case due to lack of evidence, and inadequate legislation.
dredmorbius 2y ago
<https://archive.is/yZivT https://archive.is/yZivT>
csmpltn 2y ago
Is that boat trawling directly over the same area where the cables were damaged? Unclear from the tweet alone...
- silverlyra 2y ago
  yes – the trawling pattern in the GIF is over (part of) the area marked as damaged in the NRK article: https://www.nrk.no/tromsogfinnmark/this-is-what-the-damaged-svalbard-cable-looked-like-when-it-came-up-from-the-depths-1.16895904#1.16893866.c01550f2 https://www.nrk.no/tromsogfinnmark/this-is-what-the-damaged-...
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    that part loads funny, i had to reload the article and click on the little globe picture before it loaded and then it still didn't load correctly.

by cjrp 2y ago

Russian trawlers going back and forth in that area… https://x.com/PerErikSchulze/status/1794828268480438514 https://x.com/PerErikSchulze/status/1794828268480438514

the_gipsy 2y ago

While this looks alarming and makes an engaging tweet, I have no idea how regular trawling patterns look like. They might circle around fishing spot.

mgoetzke 2y ago
[flagged]
- HenryBemis 2y ago
  Plausible deniability because it works. As for the fishermen in that boat.. yeah.. totally innocent fishermen, and on that very spot they hit a 'school' of that one fish they were looking for, so they are fishing this 'school' and nothing else sinister going on keep walking (omitting commas on purpose)
thaumasiotes 2y ago
Dave Barry made a similar observation about antismoking PSAs, objecting to one that had someone throw a diseased lung on a table. He pointed out that you could present any random internal organ and it would look just as bad: "This is what will happen to you if you keep smoking. Look! A perfectly healthy goat kidney!"
- iopq 2y ago
  I think what had a big impact on me is they show both a healthy lung and a smoker's lung
  - Shrezzing 2y ago
    This was the big one for me too. The juxtaposed healthy versus unhealthy lungs resemble an uncooked chicken versus a roast chicken which was left in the oven for 30 minutes more than necessary. https://www.scotsman.com/webimg/legacy_elm_28724349.jpg?crop=3:2,smart&width=990&quality=65&enable=upscale https://www.scotsman.com/webimg/legacy_elm_28724349.jpg?crop...
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      The antismoking PSA that made the strongest impression on me, by far, was the one that showed a grandfather encouraging a baby to take a step. Eventually, the baby starts walking, and rushes over to the grandfather. And through the grandfather, who fades to translucency. It wasn't just me; that PSA made enough of a splash that it was called out on Friends. I've tried to find that PSA in the past, but with no success. Once I asked a friend if they could find it, and the response was "Oh, I know exactly the one you're talking about. I won't help you look for it. I hate that commercial and I don't want to see it again." Looks like it's made it onto youtube by now in glorious 240p: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6pb6XxrbmE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6pb6XxrbmE I note that the second comment is "This commercial was what made my father stop smoking." It's interesting to think about the balance between disturbing the smoking audience so strongly that they stop, and disturbing the non-smoking audience so strongly that they complain about being exposed to your traumatic imagery and imperil your funding.
      - immibis 2y ago
        There have been some Oceanic anti-speeding ads that had the same effect on people, apparently. There's one where time freezes right before a collision and the person at fault apologizes for the little boy he's about to murder. There's one where the driver is talking to the ghost of his friend who died in a car crash. There's one where the grim reaper spins a roulette wheel every time a driver makes a mistake at an intersection. There was one where they rewind time, nudge the speedometer slightly lower, and resume normal time, and a fatal accident (pedestrian hit by car) turns into a bruised leg.
- IndySun 2y ago
  Related, I was struck by a comment made by the respiratory specialist doctor Martin Tobin, during the George Floyd murder court case. He said less than 10% of smokers actually go on to get 'issues'. He was pushing back on the line that as a smoker, George Floyd was more prone to react badly to 'having a knee on his windpipe...' you know the rest. I did rewind and listen again then look up what he was saying and indeed, my assumed knowledge of smoking was altered. Apologies for my vagueness with 'issues', I don't want to under or over state what he said and right now I can't locate the exact sentence within the days of testimony. This man... https://archive.is/x5MRY https://archive.is/x5MRY
  - IndySun 2y ago
    For anyone curious, I found the relevant sentence. An astonishingly counterintuitive almost throwaway remark by a world's expert sent me on a deep dive on what else can and does cause lung problems. Dr Martin Tobin says it at 3h 02m 40s... https://www.c-span.org/video/?510467-1/derek-chauvin-trial-death-george-floyd-day-9-part-1 https://www.c-span.org/video/?510467-1/derek-chauvin-trial-d...
    - alexeldeib 2y ago
      What was your takeaway? Any added insights/reading?
      - ikiris 2y ago
        Radon is scary, and surprisingly everywhere in some regions.
      - IndySun 2y ago
        I am aware there is a lot of complexity (obviously) in why people develop lung cancer, or any illness for that matter, but within that assumption was smoking being far worse than it actually is. Reading further, and this may also seem obvious written out in this simple form, the cancer numbers for people in homes using coal burning for cooking food varies hugely depending on the coal. And that the incidence of lung cancers in 'never-smokers' is rising rapidly globally.
- ltbarcly3 2y ago
  Thats what they do. Those lungs are fake, sold by medical supply companies. They just take a healthy pig lung and dye it black and burn holes in it for "tumors". You can google for places to buy them.
  - ltbarcly3 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure there is some of automated brigading, every post I make gets modded down for no reason. Why mod this down? It's just a fact that is easily verifiable. It had been voted up to 2 or 3, then very quickly went to 0. Very odd. https://www.fishersci.com/shop/products/smokers-lungs-kit-2/p-2371109 https://www.fishersci.com/shop/products/smokers-lungs-kit-2/... "These inflatable swine lungs have been stained realistically and then specially preserved in odorless, nontoxic solution that retains the texture and elasticity of fresh lungs."

goodcanadian 2y ago

That's what trawling is . . . it is completely normally for a trawler to go back and forth like that.

LysPJ 2y ago
But not over a cable. Submarine cables are clearly marked on nautical charts, and even recreational boaters know not to anchor in those areas. A professional trawler captain is not going to accidentally trawl over such an area.
- AlecSchueler 2y ago
  Fishers are infamous for flaunting the rules though. I think we can only judge this if we see records of other ships in the area.
  - giarc 2y ago
    You can, at least at that specific time that all other boats were not trawling over cables.
- vidarh 2y ago
  There's a big difference in seriousness between being able to show whether they were likely doing something they shouldn't be doing for the sake of making more money on the fishing, vs. if they were doing what they were doing with the intent of causing damage, though. But of course, that difficulty is also exactly why it'd also be a great way for an adversary to damage your cables.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    means motive opportunity -- 3 for 3 given the use cases re: satellites on the island, and the continuing cold-yet-increasing tensions with Russia, it's absolutely reasonable to make that assumption maybe they'll try to blame this on Ukraine like they tried with the undersea pipelines that got blown up, too

rasz 2y ago

I mean, clearly "lack of evidence"! >After an inital investigation, the police dropped the case due to lack of evidence, and inadequate legislation.

dredmorbius 2y ago

<https://archive.is/yZivT https://archive.is/yZivT>

csmpltn 2y ago

Is that boat trawling directly over the same area where the cables were damaged? Unclear from the tweet alone...

silverlyra 2y ago
yes – the trawling pattern in the GIF is over (part of) the area marked as damaged in the NRK article: https://www.nrk.no/tromsogfinnmark/this-is-what-the-damaged-svalbard-cable-looked-like-when-it-came-up-from-the-depths-1.16895904#1.16893866.c01550f2 https://www.nrk.no/tromsogfinnmark/this-is-what-the-damaged-...
- Suppafly 2y ago
  that part loads funny, i had to reload the article and click on the little globe picture before it loaded and then it still didn't load correctly.