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I feel really sorry for the developer. I've only been a casual observer, but from my view point the community's reaction was... not great, to put it lightly. I

I feel really sorry for the developer. I've only been a casual observer, but from my view point the community's reaction was... not great, to put it lightly. I get that a lot of us are tired of 'AI' being shoved down our throat at every possible turn. I get that a lot of us have privacy concerns. I get that maybe you don't want it in your terminal emulator. But iTerm is a free (both as in gratis and as in libre) open source project. The developer released a feature that they were probably happy and excited about. It was off by default and didn't siphon data or do anything malicious. And a ton of reactions were as if iTerm had just added the devil incarnate or attacked people personally. Disliking the feature is fine. Voicing your concerns and feedback is fine. But it should always be gracious and in good faith. I think this is a good change, if only to pacify the masses, and I applaud the developer for taking these steps, but I don't like how we got here. EDIT: gnachman, if you're reading this, thank you for your tireless work on iTerm. It serves me extremely well whenever I'm on macOS and holds a special place in my heart. I bought a MacBook in 2013 and it was the first *nix system that I daily drove as a desktop for a long time. I installed iTerm 2 in my first week and it was a constant companion for many years.

akira2501 2y ago
[flagged]
- matwood 2y ago
  Why does a developer for an OSS project add any feature? They felt like it.
- zeroxfe 2y ago
  > why did the developer decide to add the feature in the first place? Was it community feedback or some other mechanism that inspired this choice? You're moving the goalposts and again putting the developer in a position where they have to justify themselves. Which they don't. As GP puts it: "But iTerm is a free (both as in gratis and as in libre) open source project. The developer released a feature that they were probably happy and excited about."
  - akira2501 2y ago
    > putting the developer in a position where they have to justify themselves I'm putting those who offer criticism of the community at large in a position to justify why they're surprised by the outcome. > The developer released a feature that they were probably happy and excited about. Then they should ignore the criticism. If you want to build what your heart desires there is nothing stopping you. If you expect the community who uses your software to uncritically accept what you've done and offer no negative feedback then the fact you've given it away for free (while at the same time accepting sponsorship money) is not a valid position to take.
    - Cu3PO42 2y ago
      > I'm putting those who offer criticism of the community at large in a position to justify why they're surprised by the outcome. I'm not surprised. I'm disappointed. > If you expect the community who uses your software to uncritically accept what you've done and offer no negative feedback [...] My point isn't that there shouldn't be feedback. Feedback is important, both positive and negative, especially if it's constructive. But you can and should (and this is really my point) present negative feedback in a manner that is respectful of the project and the developers. It doesn't need to be unkind. Take this exchange, for example. We may disagree, you may dislike my arguments and I may dislike yours, but we're having a civil discussion. This is healthy. Some of the feedback in relation to this feature on the other hand wasn't in good faith and wasn't civil. There have been allegations of covert data collection, personal attacks on the developers and vocabulary such as 'piece of crap'. This is the behavior I'm criticizing.
- Larrikin 2y ago
  Probably wasn't from a bad faith comment, but what exactly the post you replied to said. Local LLM is an exciting tech and the author probably thought it was cool to add to his free thing he gives away.
- rockemsockem 2y ago
  They probably thought it would be useful based on their own and others experiences. There are many other terminal emulators with these features now and they chose to add this now popular feature in a very thoughtful way.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- artimaeis 2y ago
  It's been in beta for a year. There's been plenty of community discussion in that time, mostly around testing the feature. It was only after the release that all this outrage happened.
  - akira2501 2y ago
    So the lesson is "the audience who tests your software is very different from the audience which actually uses it." Is there a reason to "not like how we got here" then?
- jaredklewis 2y ago
  Because it’s the developer’s project and he can add whatever he feels like adding?
- mdeeks 2y ago
  Because it is a legitimately useful feature? I've already used it multiple times just today. It isn't much different than the Github Copilot CLI feature `gh copilot suggest "how do I do X?"`. It actually has a better user experience IMHO. You get to see and edit the suggestion quickly and easily. It's always just a cmd+y away too.
- amirhirsch 2y ago
  I wanted this feature. I hadn't used iTerm until now. I think the AI command lookup was executed very well. I just donated $10. Thanks George!
irskep 2y ago
I wonder if a lot of the heated discussion is purely an emotional reaction to be hit with "AI feature onboarding" immediately after a normally-drama-free terminal emulator software update. If they had gone with a much more low-key way of notifying users of the feature, maybe folks would be more reasonable. Not that I blame the maintainers for using the approach they did, though! Usually you do want to be super obvious about new things.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  The rage was obviously premature, but to give the ragers the benefit of the doubt, maybe it was in anticipation of the all-too-common "You'll get over it"[1] stance that actually didn't end up happening this time. I can totally understand users' frustration with software in general these days, where developers keep cramming in unwanted features, with an "Eat it--it's good for you" attitude. This particular maintainer did not have this attitude, but it's so common as to be expected now. Whenever any software I use changes anymore, I instinctively expect it to get worse because the developer chose to add something unwanted. It's a sad state for software in general. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9823324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9823324
- soneil 2y ago
  I suspect a lot of it isn't just this feature in itself, but the overall fatigue of having it shoe-horned in everywhere. I recently had to replace the Logitech software for our mice with the (hidden in a kbase) offline version because they'd added AI to what's essentially a mouse driver - two weeks later it pops up in my terminal. I think for most people, it's not any one mole that's the problem, it's the overall game of whac-a-mole.
- feketegy 2y ago
  > I wonder if a lot of the heated discussion is purely an emotional reaction to be hit with "AI feature onboarding" It's most likely the reason. Everybody wants to ride the hype wave with AI just like they did with NFTs, dApps, Web3, and so on and people are tired of it. I'm not for or against AI if we can even call LLMs AI, but I genuinely can't find a use case for an AI prompt in a terminal emulator app. I know it's open-source and I can "take it or leave it", but this feature addition to me seems more like hype than anything else.
moomoo11 2y ago
There was a highly upvoted article on here yesterday. Honestly I agree with their sentiments. iTerm should be a terminal app. Any of this stuff should be an extension/plugin, and not a core feature.
- briandear 2y ago
  It should be whatever the maintainers want it to be. That’s the best part of open source. If someone isn’t happy, they can fork it and make their own.
- adamomada 2y ago
  Ca. 2006 iTerm added a feature to perform a google search based on text selection You could see how this is even more dangerous than a completely separate window to an API The only difference is: in 2006 people online in general weren’t absolute shitheads
baby_souffle 2y ago
> EDIT: gnachman, if you're reading this, thank you for your tireless work on iTerm. It serves me extremely well whenever I'm on macOS and holds a special place in my heart. I bought a MacBook in 2013 and it was the first *nix system that I daily drove as a desktop for a long time. I installed iTerm 2 in my first week and it was a constant companion for many years. I'd like to second this. I had to move to a mac for a bunch of reasons that I wasn't super thrilled with and iTerm2 was one of the first things I installed. It made the transition much more bearable and the system just that much more comfortable overall. I'm sorry that people didn't take kindly to this feature. For what it's worth, I find myself wishing that `Konsole` had a plugin on the side that would allow me to interact with chatGPT and the like. If I ever end up back on a mac full time, I'll (probably) be a happy user of this new function!
jaredcwhite 2y ago
> I think this is a good change, if only to pacify the masses It has nothing to do with "pacifying the masses" and everything to do it with being the right product decision to make. It should never have been added to core and should have been offered as a 100% optional add-on in the first place. People had every right to be deeply upset. We run into this problem constantly with cloud software where we have zero control over what features they add (aka AI) and often there's no way to opt-out. Thankfully we can expect better from a locally-executing open source terminal app.
- munksbeer 2y ago
  > It has nothing to do with "pacifying the masses" and everything to do it with being the right product decision to make. It should never have been added to core and should have been offered as a 100% optional add-on in the first place. People had every right to be deeply upset. Why do you get to decide that?
michaelcampbell 2y ago
> community's reaction was... not great, to put it lightly. Perhaps, but it was IMO 100% predictable. You don't go walking in a crime ridden area of a big city waving around a bunch of cash and then be shocked when you get mugged, even when it's legally still not your fault.
munksbeer 2y ago
I echo your sentiments. I should not be surprised really, but it is amazing how vehemently anti-AI some people are becoming. It is interesting that it is already creating such divides and rifts. Almost as if all those sci-fi writers predicting the upcoming AI schisms were surprisingly accurate.
ssahoo 2y ago
While the AI feature wasn't as intrusive as Windows & Microsoft has been, I am glad developers protested a force AI adoption. And also somewhat successful. Only wish enterprise CXO to know where to adopt and where not.

akira2501 2y ago

[flagged]

matwood 2y ago
Why does a developer for an OSS project add any feature? They felt like it.
zeroxfe 2y ago
> why did the developer decide to add the feature in the first place? Was it community feedback or some other mechanism that inspired this choice? You're moving the goalposts and again putting the developer in a position where they have to justify themselves. Which they don't. As GP puts it: "But iTerm is a free (both as in gratis and as in libre) open source project. The developer released a feature that they were probably happy and excited about."
- akira2501 2y ago
  > putting the developer in a position where they have to justify themselves I'm putting those who offer criticism of the community at large in a position to justify why they're surprised by the outcome. > The developer released a feature that they were probably happy and excited about. Then they should ignore the criticism. If you want to build what your heart desires there is nothing stopping you. If you expect the community who uses your software to uncritically accept what you've done and offer no negative feedback then the fact you've given it away for free (while at the same time accepting sponsorship money) is not a valid position to take.
  - Cu3PO42 2y ago
    > I'm putting those who offer criticism of the community at large in a position to justify why they're surprised by the outcome. I'm not surprised. I'm disappointed. > If you expect the community who uses your software to uncritically accept what you've done and offer no negative feedback [...] My point isn't that there shouldn't be feedback. Feedback is important, both positive and negative, especially if it's constructive. But you can and should (and this is really my point) present negative feedback in a manner that is respectful of the project and the developers. It doesn't need to be unkind. Take this exchange, for example. We may disagree, you may dislike my arguments and I may dislike yours, but we're having a civil discussion. This is healthy. Some of the feedback in relation to this feature on the other hand wasn't in good faith and wasn't civil. There have been allegations of covert data collection, personal attacks on the developers and vocabulary such as 'piece of crap'. This is the behavior I'm criticizing.
Larrikin 2y ago
Probably wasn't from a bad faith comment, but what exactly the post you replied to said. Local LLM is an exciting tech and the author probably thought it was cool to add to his free thing he gives away.
rockemsockem 2y ago
They probably thought it would be useful based on their own and others experiences. There are many other terminal emulators with these features now and they chose to add this now popular feature in a very thoughtful way.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
artimaeis 2y ago
It's been in beta for a year. There's been plenty of community discussion in that time, mostly around testing the feature. It was only after the release that all this outrage happened.
- akira2501 2y ago
  So the lesson is "the audience who tests your software is very different from the audience which actually uses it." Is there a reason to "not like how we got here" then?
jaredklewis 2y ago
Because it’s the developer’s project and he can add whatever he feels like adding?
mdeeks 2y ago
Because it is a legitimately useful feature? I've already used it multiple times just today. It isn't much different than the Github Copilot CLI feature `gh copilot suggest "how do I do X?"`. It actually has a better user experience IMHO. You get to see and edit the suggestion quickly and easily. It's always just a cmd+y away too.
amirhirsch 2y ago
I wanted this feature. I hadn't used iTerm until now. I think the AI command lookup was executed very well. I just donated $10. Thanks George!

irskep 2y ago

I wonder if a lot of the heated discussion is purely an emotional reaction to be hit with "AI feature onboarding" immediately after a normally-drama-free terminal emulator software update. If they had gone with a much more low-key way of notifying users of the feature, maybe folks would be more reasonable. Not that I blame the maintainers for using the approach they did, though! Usually you do want to be super obvious about new things.

ryandrake 2y ago
The rage was obviously premature, but to give the ragers the benefit of the doubt, maybe it was in anticipation of the all-too-common "You'll get over it"[1] stance that actually didn't end up happening this time. I can totally understand users' frustration with software in general these days, where developers keep cramming in unwanted features, with an "Eat it--it's good for you" attitude. This particular maintainer did not have this attitude, but it's so common as to be expected now. Whenever any software I use changes anymore, I instinctively expect it to get worse because the developer chose to add something unwanted. It's a sad state for software in general. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9823324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9823324
soneil 2y ago
I suspect a lot of it isn't just this feature in itself, but the overall fatigue of having it shoe-horned in everywhere. I recently had to replace the Logitech software for our mice with the (hidden in a kbase) offline version because they'd added AI to what's essentially a mouse driver - two weeks later it pops up in my terminal. I think for most people, it's not any one mole that's the problem, it's the overall game of whac-a-mole.
feketegy 2y ago
> I wonder if a lot of the heated discussion is purely an emotional reaction to be hit with "AI feature onboarding" It's most likely the reason. Everybody wants to ride the hype wave with AI just like they did with NFTs, dApps, Web3, and so on and people are tired of it. I'm not for or against AI if we can even call LLMs AI, but I genuinely can't find a use case for an AI prompt in a terminal emulator app. I know it's open-source and I can "take it or leave it", but this feature addition to me seems more like hype than anything else.

moomoo11 2y ago

There was a highly upvoted article on here yesterday. Honestly I agree with their sentiments. iTerm should be a terminal app. Any of this stuff should be an extension/plugin, and not a core feature.

briandear 2y ago
It should be whatever the maintainers want it to be. That’s the best part of open source. If someone isn’t happy, they can fork it and make their own.
adamomada 2y ago
Ca. 2006 iTerm added a feature to perform a google search based on text selection You could see how this is even more dangerous than a completely separate window to an API The only difference is: in 2006 people online in general weren’t absolute shitheads

baby_souffle 2y ago

> EDIT: gnachman, if you're reading this, thank you for your tireless work on iTerm. It serves me extremely well whenever I'm on macOS and holds a special place in my heart. I bought a MacBook in 2013 and it was the first *nix system that I daily drove as a desktop for a long time. I installed iTerm 2 in my first week and it was a constant companion for many years. I'd like to second this. I had to move to a mac for a bunch of reasons that I wasn't super thrilled with and iTerm2 was one of the first things I installed. It made the transition much more bearable and the system just that much more comfortable overall. I'm sorry that people didn't take kindly to this feature. For what it's worth, I find myself wishing that `Konsole` had a plugin on the side that would allow me to interact with chatGPT and the like. If I ever end up back on a mac full time, I'll (probably) be a happy user of this new function!

jaredcwhite 2y ago

> I think this is a good change, if only to pacify the masses It has nothing to do with "pacifying the masses" and everything to do it with being the right product decision to make. It should never have been added to core and should have been offered as a 100% optional add-on in the first place. People had every right to be deeply upset. We run into this problem constantly with cloud software where we have zero control over what features they add (aka AI) and often there's no way to opt-out. Thankfully we can expect better from a locally-executing open source terminal app.

munksbeer 2y ago
> It has nothing to do with "pacifying the masses" and everything to do it with being the right product decision to make. It should never have been added to core and should have been offered as a 100% optional add-on in the first place. People had every right to be deeply upset. Why do you get to decide that?

michaelcampbell 2y ago

> community's reaction was... not great, to put it lightly. Perhaps, but it was IMO 100% predictable. You don't go walking in a crime ridden area of a big city waving around a bunch of cash and then be shocked when you get mugged, even when it's legally still not your fault.

munksbeer 2y ago

I echo your sentiments. I should not be surprised really, but it is amazing how vehemently anti-AI some people are becoming. It is interesting that it is already creating such divides and rifts. Almost as if all those sci-fi writers predicting the upcoming AI schisms were surprisingly accurate.

ssahoo 2y ago

While the AI feature wasn't as intrusive as Windows & Microsoft has been, I am glad developers protested a force AI adoption. And also somewhat successful. Only wish enterprise CXO to know where to adopt and where not.