9 ms·
Microsoft's AI chatbot will 'recall' everything you do on its new PCs
- mrbluecoat 2y agoWell, that didn't take long: https://mashable.com/article/microsoft-recall-ai-feature-uk-investigation https://mashable.com/article/microsoft-recall-ai-feature-uk-...
- jjgreen 2y agoCould be "problematic"
- 31337Logic 2y agoRemember the good ol' days where you actually owned the PC you paid good money for? And nobody knew what you did with it?
- hparadiz 2y agoI only want this if the entire model is running on my device. Otherwise it's a massive security risk.
- logrot 2y agoMicrosoft cloud is totally secure and your data will only be shared with trusted partners. If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry. Now please log in with your Microsoft account.
- sureIy 2y agoDon’t forget to verify your identity or else you won’t be able to access some websites (and be fully tracked so we know when to come get you)
- cjk2 2y agoTrusted partners being whoever managed to extract their MSA key from a memory dump from a wide open onedrive by one of their engineers.
- henriquecm8 2y ago"Drink the verification can" is more relevant than ever.
- logrot 2y agoBased on your excruciatingly detailed activity for the last 3 months, you haven't been buying any cans. Yet you've been passing the drink verification test. Your account is suspended until you provide proof of purchase or pay full retail price for 90 cans, plus 200% surcharge.
- TiredOfLife 2y agoThe Recall feature runs on your device.
- dustedcodes 2y agoWhen you think Microsoft can’t be any more hostile to its users they always surprise you with another trick up their sleeve. There are not many companies which I’ve grown to immensely dislike over the years like Microsoft. I started my career as a .NET developer and huge fan of their products, buying into all their crap from all the way from Silverlight to Windows Phone, WPF and even owned a Surface Pro 3 tablet/laptop but today there is really rarely a company that makes me reck as much as Microsoft with their product announcements. My opinion of this company couldn’t be any lower and I hugely judge any developer working in Windows. I know I shouldn’t but I can’t help myself that unless they are a game developer there is objectively speaking absolutely no reason for a developer to work on a Surface device or Windows.
- capl 2y agoSame here. Once worked with a guy who was a huge Microsoft fan, calling Macs and Linux-based workstations “nothing but toys”. Naturally I couldn’t help but laugh when he couldn’t work for 20 minutes due to a forced windows update and then a blue screen after booting up again. The Candy crush and other crappy apps/games in combination to being a full fledged spyware OS with adware on top is already enough to make me run away screaming.
- pjmlp 2y agoMacs are too damm expensive, don't really offer dollar per CPU/GPU/GB, and I am tired that there is always something that doesn't work with Pinguin OSes since 1995, even though I also admin UNIX boxes as part of the many hats I wear. Android and Chrome OS aren't really a replacement for desktop OSes, and Google is even worse in spying users anyway.
- talldayo 2y ago> there is objectively speaking absolutely no reason for a developer to work on a Surface device or Windows. So uuh... where are you shipping software then?
- tracker1 2y agoLinux servers, web based ui, service backends, much of it in Docker.
- SilverBirch 2y agoAfter I've consented... right.... right guys!? I really worry that the financial incentives for this are all wrong. MSFT has a massive incentive to obstinately push AI interference into every element of their products. They must show traction to justify the continued exuberance around AI in the stock market. But a tool like this just has so much scope to make the user experience worse. I know what I want to do on my computer, do I need some AI clippy to ask if I need help. Windows has been on a strong downward trajectory for a while now - and that's been a conscious decision. In the last week I can remember my computer - unprompted - telling me the pollen count, a football score, 10 teas to sip for international tea day. That the FTSE Auto Index is down 3.24% (just go that now). None of that information is useful to me, I feel a strong sense of hatred towards windows now and I will be dumping this computer as soon as possible. But that's me, the user, I'm not who Satya Nadella cares about, Satya cares about saying "300% annual growth rate of AI usage" so that their numbers go up and to the right and I think it's going to drive me away from MSFT products completely.
- ASalazarMX 2y agoI think they dropped the bomb now so they could test the waters. If there's enough pushback, they'll slow down, make it opt-in, etc., but the goal is still even more spying. Data mining the users of the most popular desktop operating system is a too huge profit opportunity to miss for ethical reasons.
- kotaKat 2y agoMicrosoft doesn’t care about user consent. You can say “yes” or “not now”. “No” is not a vocabulary word in Microsoft anymore.
- Rinzler89 2y agoThe EU cares about user consent. So just like with Teams and Edge defaults, we're likely to see similar pushbacks on EU versions of windows. It's how I still don't have copilot on my Windows install despite the update bringing it to windows came to the US months ago. Or how certain employee tracking features in Azure/Office 365 are not available in EU.
- gdiamos 2y agoThat's not exactly the same thing as the LLM photographic memory that we launched at Lamini a month ago - https://www.lamini.ai/blog/lamini-llm-photographic-memory-evaluation-suite https://www.lamini.ai/blog/lamini-llm-photographic-memory-ev... We focused on LLMs that can reason while still remembering key facts exactly. But I like that the concept is catching on in the AI community. Go Satya. LLMs are powerful, but unlike humans, their weights are fixed during inference and cannot be used for working memory. Computer memories are abundant and perfect. It's not unreasonable to store your entire life in all modalities in a personal computer of the near future. AIs with that ability should exceed human performance on knowledge tasks.
- mawadev 2y agoMeanwhile I have a hard time connecting bluetooth devices in 2024 and fight with clunky settings windows just to find a relevant piece of information. I should calculate the raw seconds of lifetime I lose in a day waiting for the search to finish its webrequests before showing me local results of my search term as well.
- tifik 2y ago> search to finish its webrequests Now imagine it happening for literally every interaction. Opened a context menu? Oh give me a second to check the LLM server for useful actions I can offer you. Want to close a window? One sec just wanna analyze the content first to see if you reealy want to close it. I am so happy that most gaming is now possible on Linux and I dont have to use Windows at all.
- skydhash 2y agoI left Windows for Linux around when Win 10 came out. What prompted was the whole shenanigans to remove features I didn’t want and frustration with the settings (I like to change stuff every once in a while). I throw myself in the world of Arch, i3wm, and ricing. I’m using macOS now, but it’s quite nice to know there’s an haven out there once the abuse is too much.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Abecid 2y agopeople acting like they already don't
- atemerev 2y agoWell, I don't use Windows 11 for this reason, and I only use Windows 10 as a games launcher, so there's that.
- discordance 2y agoFUD? The details so far suggest Recall will run locally, offline. The demo vid showed that you can select apps not be indexed in Recall… so, not “everything”
- t-writescode 2y agoWhere do you see that the details suggest it will run locally, "offline"? From the article: > Microsoft promises to protect users’ privacy by giving them the option to filter out what they don’t want tracked. This line here suggests that you can opt out of specific tracking, but says __nothing__ about where the model will be stored, trained, etc.
- sseagull 2y agoIt was in the presentation. Starting at 17:00 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/event https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/event “We leverage the power of the NPU to ensure content stays on your device, which makes the experience fast and maintains your privacy” Now whether you believe that or not is another matter. But that is the claim at least
- jerf 2y agoIt has to be true today. They couldn't afford to run that on their own servers. As big and popular as the cloud may be it is still utterly dwarfed by the amount of computation power available in the not-cloud. What happens in 10 years, now, I make no claim.
- maven29 2y ago>As you might imagine, all this snapshot recording comes at a hardware penalty. To use Recall, users will need to purchase one of the new "Copilot Plus PCs" powered by Qualcomm's Snapdragon X Elite chips, which include the necessary neural processing unit (NPU). There are also minimum storage requirements for running Recall, with a minimum of 256GB of hard drive space and 50GB of available space. The default allocation for Recall on a 256GB device is 25GB, which can store approximately three months of snapshots. Users can adjust the allocation in their PC settings, with old snapshots being deleted once the allocated storage is full. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/microsofts-new-recall-feature-will-record-everything-you-do-on-your-pc/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/microsofts-new-recal...
- exitb 2y agoI can't wait until a computer will first "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" us when trying to download a Gameboy rom or write a Star Wars fanfic.
- kuerbel 2y agothen boot up linux and light a candle for linus torvalds
- Tr03P 2y agoI'm afraid I can't download the image, Kuerbel.
- Phelinofist 2y agoNetboot to the rescue
- cy6erlion 2y agolights a candle for torvalds and burns incense for stallman
- sureIy 2y agoChatGPT already says exactly that. Welcome to the future.
- makeitdouble 2y agoThat line feels more and more unrealistic to me as we're approaching a world where AI is shoved everywhere. We'll probably never get such an emphatic apology, instead: - there will be no response (same way mirroring a Disney movie in the Vision Pro is just a dark rectangle) - it will tell us to just see with the administrator (the closest we have to "go fuck yourself", as we'll be the administrator) - it will throw us a link to a help page with platitudes about how we're mostly free to do whatever we want, and ask us if the page was helpful to solve our problem. - we'll be asked to repeat the request indefinitely with no response on the result.
- 2y ago
- hiddencost 2y agoI'm excited to hear about their plans for GDPR and DMA compliance. Europe starting to look very prescient here. BTW: if you uncover a willful violation of these laws at your company (preferably with the knowledge of a director), you can whistleblow to the SEC (and the relevant EU authorities at the same time), and the SEC will provide you strong whistleblower protections and hopefully you can walk away with millions of dollars in whistleblower awards. To my knowledge the EU doesn't provide the same kind of juicy whistleblower incentives, but willfully violating such a strong EU law would also trigger SEC enforcement, and they're the ones who will pay big bucks. To my knowledge the largest SEC whistleblower award was $279 million. I encourage you to reach out to a lawyer, e g the non profit Whistleblower Aid.
- snowpid 2y agoCan you explain why an American agency would care about violated EU laws?
- zrm 2y ago"Everything is securities fraud." -Matt Levine
- ale42 2y agoMS is a publicly traded company. If the company exposes itself to a potential huge fine by wrongdoing on one of their markets, that's totally something the SEC can be interested in.
- snowpid 2y agois there some cases where that happenend? American public company broke non - American law and the SEC intervened?
- ale42 2y agoI don't know, but from what I've read online, "the antifraud provisions of the federal securities laws apply extraterritorially [...] when the conduct outside the United States had a substantial effect in the United States or upon United States citizens." [1]. Now, if MS receives a huge fine in Europe, it might have an influence on the stock, which might imply losses for US-based investors, and that should be sufficient. Source: [1] https://www.zuckermanlaw.com/sp_faq/sec-enforcement-actions-international-schemes/ https://www.zuckermanlaw.com/sp_faq/sec-enforcement-actions-...
- red_admiral 2y agoI hear that members of the Inner Party will be able to turn it off for short periods. In practice, some White Hat will find a way to disable this (yes, even if it's running locally).
- daemin 2y agoRealistically for using Windows there will be three scenarios: 1) You like all of this "AI" "stuff" and you use the newest version of the Windows Operating System. 2) You just want an Operating System that works so you continue to use Windows 10. 3) You use Windows within a corporate environment where the Security and IT teams neuter it with Domain settings to disable most of these "AI" "features".
- t-writescode 2y ago> 2) You just want an Operating System that works so you continue to use Windows 10. Until Oct 14, 2025: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...
- daemin 2y agoYou can still use Windows 10 after that date, it's not like it will uninstall itself and shutdown right then and there. If you felt so inclined you can also pay Microsoft for support after that date. Or Microsoft might also extend support based on public demand, given that Windows 10 still beats Windows 11 in install base.
- Sebb767 2y ago> Or Microsoft might also extend support based on public demand, given that Windows 10 still beats Windows 11 in install base. There was a time when this was true of Windows 7 and we all know how that went down.
- daemin 2y agoWell Windows 7 users converted to Windows 10 users as it was released before the end of support for Windows 7. The same thing could reasonably happen if a good Windows 12 gets released before the end of support for Windows 10. Though I have serious doubts that an ordinary version of Windows will ever get released. I mean one without bundled OneDrive or "AI" services and without a dumbed down desktop experience.
- Havoc 2y agoAI, telemetry, forced online accounts, full recording and Microsoft owning an ad business. …what could possibly go wrong
- enricotr 2y agoPassword recovery questions that are all personal informations :D
- CaptainFever 2y agoIs there an open source version of this? I think it would be cool to have this as long as it's under my control/run locally.
- onhacker 2y agoI'm in favour of allowing LLMs to be trained on public data but Remember PC is a Personal Computer. Definitely screenshots will be seen by team who will label the data for further LLMs training/fine-tuning.
- nottorp 2y agoOk, besides the privacy/permission aspect... Where do they store all this data on my local PC? Some news items mention screenshots every couple seconds, for example. Will you be forced to pay for extra storage for a feature you don't want or need? Will Microsoft send me an extra SSD on their dime on request? :)
- xyzal 2y agoRecall from some cloud service I bet
- usrbinbash 2y agoGentle reminder: https://www.inc.com/kit-eaton/why-a-former-white-house-cyber-director-called-microsoft-a-national-security-risk.html https://www.inc.com/kit-eaton/why-a-former-white-house-cyber...
- iamacyborg 2y agoThis actually seems like something that could be hugely useful, assuming the model can be run and stored entirely locally.
- spaceman_2020 2y agoIn the movie Idiocracy, a lot of people end their sentences with a sponsor statement - "brought to you by Carl's Jr" I predict a near future where AI agents will do the same.
- Aeolun 2y agoI should rewatch that. The last time I did it was funny. I wonder how much like a prophecy it’ll seem now.
- wigster 2y agomy browser is gonna need amnesiac mode to go with incognito
- hwbunny 2y agoFeed more money to giant corps. Yes, feed them, that's the way forward. Buy their services, use their products.
- zoobab 2y ago1984 was not supposed to be a manual for training AI.
- whoitwas 2y agoMaybe they could focus on the OS basics first instead of packing features no one will use. Windows still can't position windows well and loses useful features by the day.
- cess11 2y agoI look forward to seeing how this will be received by the malware community.
- senectus1 2y agoyeah nah thanks. I've already swapped to Fedora, a few more other projects and I'll start on the kids and wife's machines. The only windows devices left will be corporate devices.
- anonzzzies 2y agoDid they manage to make OS control work? They have an open source bot controlled desktop automation, but last I tried it was crap. First who gets that working reliably wins imho.
- _heimdall 2y agoI wonder if this one will get slapped down as monopolistic behavior. I don't expect Microsoft will open up OS-level usage tracking to third parties, at which point they can provide this AI feature that no one else can only because they own the OS too.
- helf 2y ago[dead]
- nercury 2y agoAnything you say or do will be used against you by any future government. What's legal now, might not be legal tomorrow, and you will be jugged by your AI "friend". Welcome to dystopia.
- enricotr 2y agoA good and legal solution to uninstall all the crap can be AtlasOS project. I use it when I must test crossbuilds to windows and it does his job. Better than Win7 in a good way.
- qwery 2y ago> its new PCs Whose new PCs? How they probably intended it: Microsoft-supplied PCs (as the vendor of the operating system and/or hardware) The snarky second meaning: Microsoft literally owns the PCs (a PC running Windows/Copilot is Microsoft's property) My preferred interpretation: The new PCs belong to the AI chatbot. The fact that the chatbot has access to everything you do on its new PC is unsurprising.
- infinita740 2y agoThis look very similar to a (mac only?) product that was discussed on HN a few years ago: https://www.rewind.ai/ https://www.rewind.ai/ Discussion at the time (featuring very similar privacy concerns): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33421751 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33421751
- pjmlp 2y agoThis is definitly something that will keep me away from these new PCs, until my breaks down, or I am forced into them at work.
- xjay 2y agoCloud 1: Cloud does all the compute, logic, storage, and transfer. Cloud 2 = Cloud 1, but delegate more compute/logic to edge/local computers to reduce cost. [1] Cloud 3 = Cloud 2, but edge/local computer has hardware specifically made to do the compute, store intermediate data, and send the results to someone else who might give you something in return for free, and possibly make you pay for it later. Marketing can call it Cloud <3 (heart). Some might say </3 (broken heart). [2] > [~10 years ago] Smartphones began incorporating AI accelerators starting with the Qualcomm Snapdragon 820 in 2015. [3] > An AI accelerator, deep learning processor, or neural processing unit (NPU) is a class of specialized hardware accelerator or computer system designed to accelerate artificial intelligence and machine learning applications, including artificial neural networks and machine vision. [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_computing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons#Western https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons#Western [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_accelerator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_accelerator
- ChrisArchitect 2y ago[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40417837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40417837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40417828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40417828
- mensetmanusman 2y ago“Let me show you how to torrent these movies you purchased but Sony took away…” Yeah right!
- cowboylowrez 2y agoI've used linux as my desktop for quite a while, and stopped using windows entirely when I left my last job. The one thing that would make me buy a windows 11 pc is if it becomes mandated for internet access cause of the new "trusted" thing and mandated tracking, especially with the age verification tsunami incoming. I love linux but there's no doubting the direction the computer industry is taking, and as usual I'll put up with whatever to get my memes haha
- tracker1 2y agoThe Ministry of Truth would like to talk to you about your memes, you may be referred to the DoJ. The above is only half joking as someone was literally convicted for reposting a meme on Twitter in the past few months.
- davidguetta 2y agoLaugh in ubuntu since 2013. Miss a proper office and games tho
- tamiral 2y agothats not creepy at all .... at all............................
- namaria 2y agoSo they're embedding bossware in the os now. I need to start asking if I will need to use a windows computer for work on interviews and end it there if the answer is positive.