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This is an excellent narrative, but I think it omits the many risks the program took to get to the moon before the Soviets. For example, Apollo 8 was the first

This is an excellent narrative, but I think it omits the many risks the program took to get to the moon before the Soviets. For example, Apollo 8 was the first time a Saturn V (and command module) was sent all the way to the moon, and it was done with a crew. Because there was no lander, there was no backup in case the command module had a problem. If the explosion on Apollo 13 had happened on Apollo 8, the crew would have died in space and never returned. Remember also that Apollo 8 orbited the moon--it wasn't just a free-return trajectory. The command module had to fire to get into lunar orbit (for the first time ever) and even more importantly, fire to get out (also for the first time ever). Apollo 8 was originally supposed to have a lunar lander--everyone felt safer with a "lifeboat" just in case. But delays on the lander program meant that they either had to delay Apollo 8 (and miss the end of the decade deadline and maybe the claim to land first) or fly without. The safe course was to delay, but NASA decided to take the risk. The magic of the Apollo era is that they made it look so easy that we forget how hard it was. The tragedy of Apollo 1 highlights that even simple things, like testing a new capsule on the ground, are incredibly risky. Apollo 6, the second uncrewed flight of Saturn V was almost a disaster. The booster vibrated badly because of engine instability, and two second stage engines shut down early. But on the very next flight, they decided to send it up with a crew. This would be the equivalent of putting humans on board the next Starship test launch (IFT-4). Sure, the timeline seems incremental, but only because the dates are omitted. Mercury 1 was in 1961 and the first moon landing was only 8 years later. In contrast, SLS started development in 2011, using existing Shuttle engines and solid rocket motors, and the first landing probably won't happen before 2028.

smallmancontrov 2y ago
Yeah, the risk appetite was much higher. Those are good reminders on Apollo 1/6/8, but the problems didn't stop there. The first 5 landing missions all had huge problems that nearly killed everyone, too. Only the last 2 landings were sort of OK. Apollo 1: burned all astronauts alive ... Apollo 10: POGO oscillations on launch (Saturn V still trying to tear itself apart), LEM tumbling Apollo 11: Computer kept crashing all the way down to the moon (it controlled the engines) Apollo 12: Brownout in the command module during launch, "Set SCE to Aux" Apollo 13: Oxygen tank fire. So rough they made a movie. Apollo 14: Shorted abort button almost killed everyone Apollo 15: Parachute failure --------- We have no shortage of people who would be willing to put their life on the line, but we do have a shortage of the political urgency/unity to tolerate actual problems. Just look at people dig into Elon Musk every time he explodes a prototype with his own money and nobody on board, and realize that accelerating a human program creates 10x the political sniping opportunity.
- myth2018 2y ago
  > with his own money Could someone confirm that? SpaceX raised money last year [0], however I couldn't find how much of this money (if any) went to the Starship program. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/spacex-raising-750-million-at-137-billion-valuation-a16z-investing.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/spacex-raising-750-million-a...
- kqr 2y ago
  You're sensationalising a little. The abort button on Apollo 14 would at worst have rendezvouzed the lander with the orbiter prior to landing on the moon. It would have killed the mission, but definitely not the astronauts. The brownout also had several safe abort alternatives and the question was only ever about how to continue the mission, not how to save people.
- Analemma_ 2y ago
  Apollo 13 also had severe pogo on launch. Obviously it's overshadowed by the unrelated oxygen tank issues later, but that mission actually got extremely lucky that the oscillations happened to occur in such a way that the computer noticed the issue and shut down the affected engine. That could easily not have been the case, and if the oscillations had continued for a few more seconds it would have destroyed the vehicle.
- cratermoon 2y ago
  Counterpoint: all of those incidents, except Apollo 1 are proof that the engineering was great, because nobody died. For example, you mention the computer on the Apollo 11 lunar module crashing. In fact, it was recovering and working properly. The astronauts had left the rendezvous radar on during descent, in case it was needed for abort. That was not a nominal configuration, and the radar kept stealing cycles and causing the guidance computer to be overloaded with tasks. Remember, it was a hard real time system. What did the computer do? Reset and prioritize the key task: landing. Apollo 12: Got hit (twice) by lightning. The electrical system wasn't fried, it survived it, in a protective mode. Importantly, the computers in the Instrument Unit, placed on the third stage, were completely unaffected. Apollo 15: One lost parachute, still landed safely (if a bit hard) because of redundancy. I could go on, but you get the point. It was a well-engineered system backed by a team of engineers.

smallmancontrov 2y ago

Yeah, the risk appetite was much higher. Those are good reminders on Apollo 1/6/8, but the problems didn't stop there. The first 5 landing missions all had huge problems that nearly killed everyone, too. Only the last 2 landings were sort of OK. Apollo 1: burned all astronauts alive ... Apollo 10: POGO oscillations on launch (Saturn V still trying to tear itself apart), LEM tumbling Apollo 11: Computer kept crashing all the way down to the moon (it controlled the engines) Apollo 12: Brownout in the command module during launch, "Set SCE to Aux" Apollo 13: Oxygen tank fire. So rough they made a movie. Apollo 14: Shorted abort button almost killed everyone Apollo 15: Parachute failure --------- We have no shortage of people who would be willing to put their life on the line, but we do have a shortage of the political urgency/unity to tolerate actual problems. Just look at people dig into Elon Musk every time he explodes a prototype with his own money and nobody on board, and realize that accelerating a human program creates 10x the political sniping opportunity.

myth2018 2y ago
> with his own money Could someone confirm that? SpaceX raised money last year [0], however I couldn't find how much of this money (if any) went to the Starship program. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/spacex-raising-750-million-at-137-billion-valuation-a16z-investing.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/02/spacex-raising-750-million-a...
kqr 2y ago
You're sensationalising a little. The abort button on Apollo 14 would at worst have rendezvouzed the lander with the orbiter prior to landing on the moon. It would have killed the mission, but definitely not the astronauts. The brownout also had several safe abort alternatives and the question was only ever about how to continue the mission, not how to save people.
Analemma_ 2y ago
Apollo 13 also had severe pogo on launch. Obviously it's overshadowed by the unrelated oxygen tank issues later, but that mission actually got extremely lucky that the oscillations happened to occur in such a way that the computer noticed the issue and shut down the affected engine. That could easily not have been the case, and if the oscillations had continued for a few more seconds it would have destroyed the vehicle.
cratermoon 2y ago
Counterpoint: all of those incidents, except Apollo 1 are proof that the engineering was great, because nobody died. For example, you mention the computer on the Apollo 11 lunar module crashing. In fact, it was recovering and working properly. The astronauts had left the rendezvous radar on during descent, in case it was needed for abort. That was not a nominal configuration, and the radar kept stealing cycles and causing the guidance computer to be overloaded with tasks. Remember, it was a hard real time system. What did the computer do? Reset and prioritize the key task: landing. Apollo 12: Got hit (twice) by lightning. The electrical system wasn't fried, it survived it, in a protective mode. Importantly, the computers in the Instrument Unit, placed on the third stage, were completely unaffected. Apollo 15: One lost parachute, still landed safely (if a bit hard) because of redundancy. I could go on, but you get the point. It was a well-engineered system backed by a team of engineers.