4 ms·

Anecdotal, but we grow a heritage strain of wheat here in PHX (Sonoran White). Its appearance gives me pause. Common commercial wheat is very short in comparis

Anecdotal, but we grow a heritage strain of wheat here in PHX (Sonoran White). Its appearance gives me pause. Common commercial wheat is very short in comparison. I have a friend who can’t eat “common” wheat products from the grocery store, having been diagnosed with severe gluten intolerance, but can eat Sonoran White without symptoms. You can follow the same exact recipe but substitute Sonoran White flour for standard flower, and they can eat the final product. I have absolutely no research to support my stance here. But given gluten intolerance is, from my understanding, a microbiome disorder. And Sonoran White grows tall and requires less pesticide/herbicide/fungicide, while common commercial wheat grows low to the ground and the head of wheat sits stewing in a bath of herbicide/pesticide/fungicide - I suspect the difference between the two strains’ impact on the microbiome is less genetic and more environmental. ADHD research is showing similar early correlation between a mothers’ diet and the rate of ADHD (particularly caffeine consumption). I have a similar belief here that ADHD correlates with caffeine consumption because caffeine is often consumed in liquids containing additives that disrupt the mother’s microbiome. I strongly suspect that, over the next 100 years, we are going to find that we’ve been waging war on the human biome through food preservatives and environmental contaminants. And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome.

mandmandam 2y ago
> I strongly suspect that, over the next 100 years, we are going to find that we’ve been waging war on the human biome through food preservatives and environmental contaminants. And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome. I suspect you're very right, and I further suspect that there's already research proving this that has been shelved and hidden behind NDAs by the people profiting from this, just as with big tobacco and big oil and big agri etc.
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  I fully intend to get my new kid on Kimchi once he moves to solid food-eating.
- __turbobrew__ 2y ago
  There is a very strong inverse correlation between obesity and elevation above sea level, the higher you go the thinner the people. One of the thoughts is that environmental contaminates are in higher concentrations the further down the water cycle you go, and these contaminants cause obesity.
  - TylerE 2y ago
    There’s a much much simpler reason. Living at altitude is hard. People who are out of shape move away.
    - steve_adams_86 2y ago
      I’m not sure it’s so simple. Socioeconomic studies indicate that the worse shape you’re in, the less social mobility you are likely to have. Moving on a whim might not be possible for many of these people. On the other hand, contaminants concentrating further down stream is a known phenomenon and we known we’ve inundated many places with hormone disrupting substances. It doesn’t seem all that complicated or far fetched. Both could be factors, and I’m not aiming to be contrarian so much as investigate the possibilities a bit. It’s an interesting topic
aitchnyu 2y ago
What is referred to cuisine today is partly preserving food in bacteria killing chemicals. Do you mean to hypothesize people ingesting more (traditonal) bactericide are sicker?
- imtringued 2y ago
  People who take antibiotics usually have to temporarily take probiotics afterwards to restore the bacteria they lost.
squigz 2y ago
> And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome All of those things have existed for ... ever
- r3trohack3r 2y ago
  They have. But I do not believe they were as common prior to the 1960s as they are in the 2020s.
  - squigz 2y ago
    Do you have data to inform that belief?
    - r3trohack3r 2y ago
      https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/80491/1/cesifo_wp4366.pdf https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/80491/1/cesifo_wp436... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37156255/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37156255/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9947250/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9947250/
  - superb_dev 2y ago
    Were they less common, or unknown/heavily stigmatized?
    - TylerE 2y ago
      Another confounding variable is that we got so much better at testing many things that we have people living long enough to clearly manifest problems that may not have decades or centuries ago. Sort of like how a big part of the increase in cancer deaths are people living long enough to die of cancer.
  - yareal 2y ago
    In the 1960s you had to learn to mask your differences or you would suffer violence directed at you. We used to beat kids for not behaving in the ways we expect. Get enough beatings, you learn to hide the thing that gets you beat. I'm not at all convinced it was less common back then, just more hidden.

mandmandam 2y ago

> I strongly suspect that, over the next 100 years, we are going to find that we’ve been waging war on the human biome through food preservatives and environmental contaminants. And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome. I suspect you're very right, and I further suspect that there's already research proving this that has been shelved and hidden behind NDAs by the people profiting from this, just as with big tobacco and big oil and big agri etc.

kridsdale3 2y ago
I fully intend to get my new kid on Kimchi once he moves to solid food-eating.
__turbobrew__ 2y ago
There is a very strong inverse correlation between obesity and elevation above sea level, the higher you go the thinner the people. One of the thoughts is that environmental contaminates are in higher concentrations the further down the water cycle you go, and these contaminants cause obesity.
- TylerE 2y ago
  There’s a much much simpler reason. Living at altitude is hard. People who are out of shape move away.
  - steve_adams_86 2y ago
    I’m not sure it’s so simple. Socioeconomic studies indicate that the worse shape you’re in, the less social mobility you are likely to have. Moving on a whim might not be possible for many of these people. On the other hand, contaminants concentrating further down stream is a known phenomenon and we known we’ve inundated many places with hormone disrupting substances. It doesn’t seem all that complicated or far fetched. Both could be factors, and I’m not aiming to be contrarian so much as investigate the possibilities a bit. It’s an interesting topic

aitchnyu 2y ago

What is referred to cuisine today is partly preserving food in bacteria killing chemicals. Do you mean to hypothesize people ingesting more (traditonal) bactericide are sicker?

imtringued 2y ago
People who take antibiotics usually have to temporarily take probiotics afterwards to restore the bacteria they lost.

squigz 2y ago

> And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome All of those things have existed for ... ever

r3trohack3r 2y ago
They have. But I do not believe they were as common prior to the 1960s as they are in the 2020s.
- squigz 2y ago
  Do you have data to inform that belief?
  - r3trohack3r 2y ago
    https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/80491/1/cesifo_wp4366.pdf https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/80491/1/cesifo_wp436... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37156255/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37156255/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9947250/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9947250/
- superb_dev 2y ago
  Were they less common, or unknown/heavily stigmatized?
  - TylerE 2y ago
    Another confounding variable is that we got so much better at testing many things that we have people living long enough to clearly manifest problems that may not have decades or centuries ago. Sort of like how a big part of the increase in cancer deaths are people living long enough to die of cancer.
- yareal 2y ago
  In the 1960s you had to learn to mask your differences or you would suffer violence directed at you. We used to beat kids for not behaving in the ways we expect. Get enough beatings, you learn to hide the thing that gets you beat. I'm not at all convinced it was less common back then, just more hidden.