7 ms·

Americans are choking on surging fast-food prices. "I can't justify the expense"

44 points by koolba 2y ago

bell-cot 2y ago
> "The whole conceit was that you were getting some OK-level of food for a low price and you could get it quick," Roberts said. "Now I can't justify the expense. If I'm paying $15 for a burger and fry and drink and it's McDonalds quality, forget about it — I'm going home." My n=1 - I live in a pretty upscale American city, and ~$15 will get you a very nice burger and fries (no drink) at some of the most upscale restaurants in town. Pay attention to their Happy Hours, and it's more like $11 or $12 (so you could add a soft drink). A huge portion of meaty lamb roganjosh & rice at my favorite Indian take-away is $16. Why would anyone ever want to go near a McDonalds?
- vsnf 2y ago
  A good burger will run you $25 in Boston. Wages are generally higher, but still. It's kind of insane. That being said, I noticed probably even 10+ years ago that fast food prices were a pretty bad deal.
  - wand3r 2y ago
    I live in the Greater Boston area and you can still find decent meals for say $18 takeaway. I saw the chart on reddit and can't find it right now but McDa prices effectively doubled in the last 5ish years. Many fast food places way outpaced inflation. It makes almost no sense to go fast food. Cava is about $12-13 out the door. It's even crazier on the west coast where in and out exists. I don't understand how McDs exists and since its significantly more liked than Burger King, even in a HCOL area, I don't see how they make money.
  - ravenstine 2y ago
    Boston's food prices are pretty nutty. I've been here for almost a month and a lot of things here are outrageously expensive. I'm not even talking about food that tourists are meant to eat, but just everyday basics. The funny thing too is that there's so many college kids here that the price of a mere burger seems like a low-level swindle to capitalize off the proliferation of student debt and gimmies from Late Boomer (Gen X) parents.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > Why would anyone ever want to go near a McDonalds Depending on the franchisee, it's often one of the only late night options in town, giving sustenance to the stoners and post-drinks drunchies of the world.
  - ravenstine 2y ago
    They also got in on the drive-thru cafe concept before Starbucks figured it out, thus a lot of people became accustomed to going to their local "McCafe" in the morning. Never had their coffee, but I've heard it's not half bad to at least being acceptable. Oddly enough, public opinion seems way more divided on the quality of Starbucks than that of McCafe.
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- blegr 2y ago
  It's funny that restaurant burger prices in my EU country are basically the same as in your "upscale American city". I thought everything there was more expensive since the higher percentiles of your salaries are so much higher.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    North America has a unified agriculture market amongst Mexico, US, and Canada - drastically simplifying logistics. The EU has a similar setup, but 26 countries still adds some overhead versus 3 countries with some form of a "Commerce Clause". It makes sense though - a Polish farmer probably can't compete with a Dutch farmer at scale due to less capital to invest in relatively expensive automation or larger operations. At least you aren't paying East Asian prices for a lot of produce.
- sureIy 2y ago
  Don’t forget to factor tip and taxes into your prices. Without those it’s difficult to actually compare them to countries that actually show the final price.
  - sneak 2y ago
    You don’t tip for takeaway unless you’re a mark.
- sneak 2y ago
  Try it at 00:30. In many places a Taco Bell is all that’s open.
- joenot443 2y ago
  There was a time when ~$3 could get you two very average 450kCal burgers from McDonald’s. One could hypothetically survive off $6/day. Less if you were in a cheap state. This is the experience people are disappointed about missing; McDonald’s was never about the big ticket combos, it’s always been about the value deals which couldn’t be found anywhere else. I worked for three years at a Canadian McDonald’s, week after week our most popular sandwiches were the McDouble and Junior Chicken, each coming in at $1.46 CDN after tax. Now they’re both $4.50 after tax, roughly a 300% increase in the span of 10 years. People are right to be upset: the entire category of ultra-cheap-takeout is being swept out from under them with McDonald’s being just one of many companies following the same trend.
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- mark_l_watson 2y ago
  re: McDonalds: This applies to Burger King also: both franchises have (usually) hidden away on their discount menus small 'classic' hamburgers: small burger and bun, pickles, mustard, and ketchup. They are very inexpensive (usually, but may depend on individual places). There little classic burgers remind me of when I was a kid, and I enjoy them. Two of them makes a light meal. I am in my 70s and very well off financially, but it makes me feel bad to see a young family in front of me doing custom orders for adults and kids, and run up a bill much more than going into a non-franchise locally owned restaurant and getting a real meal. Another tip for older people: Burger King offers a $1 large cup of coffee to seniors but you have to ask for it.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    Whataburger (a Texas regional chain) has (or at least they still did as of a year or so ago when I last ordered one) one of those basic burgers and I don’t believe it’s even on the menu - you just have to know about it. But I like their name for it - the “justaburger”; it’s just a burger.
- deleted 2y ago
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- Burger_BS 2y ago
  A burger at Applebee's is $13. Unless your idea of a "very nice burger" at an "upscale" restaurant is Five Guys you're full of it.
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    Ann Arbor locals generally don't compare The Gandy Dancer or Weber's to Applebee's. I'll assume that you are not from this area? (Admittedly, you can spend $29 on a burger at West End Grill. Though that's not with fries, but their excellent sautéed vegetables, and choice of soup or salad. And if you're dining there, I'd really suggest spending a bit more to get their smoked duck.)
- lukas099 2y ago
  McDonalds is a great place to hang out. It’s well-lit, down to earth, not too loud or quiet, you can serve yourself drinks, and meet people from all walks of life in there.
ilaksh 2y ago
What is hard for me to justify on a routine basis is delivery. It ends up being $20 for half of a meal even when I go with cheap fast food. So I always want more food than that, which will be $30+ easily. For one person, from the least expensive restaurants. I guess it's different if I have a "real" contract. But right now I am trying to save "runway" for my current "startup" and it seems like opening DoorDash more than once or twice a month is a pretty bad idea.
- bckr 2y ago
  Go ahead, take off the scare quotes. You’ll feel better, founder.
- orev 2y ago
  From my perspective, food delivery apps have always been in the category of an extreme luxury, and I’m still somewhat shocked how many people seem to consider them as something to use on a regular basis. I find them useful for placing an order in advance if I really want takeout, but then I go pick it up (I know there are still fees involved when ordering through an app, but I’ll often use the app just for the menu and call the restaurant directly to place the order). At that point I’m usually ready for a break in whatever I’m doing anyway. But for people who order regularly, being able to cook and feed yourself is an essential life skill that should not be replaced by getting food delivery all the time.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Some traditional city delivery services like the local Chinese restaurant may be somewhat reasonable but I have literally never used one of the app-enabled delivery services nor been tempted to do so. I feel like there are a bunch of basically luxury services that have been normalized.
  - mark_l_watson 2y ago
    re: "From my perspective, food delivery apps have always been in the category of an extreme luxury": Of course it is! I am in my 70s and well off financially and I only use food delivery in the rare event both my wife and I are ill at the same time. I find it a pleasure to run out to get takeout food, or more usually stop by my local produce store or local market and get something to make dinner. I am a very busy person, and at the end of each day I have never had enough time to do everything I wanted to do that day, but still spending 20 minutes to get food, a little more time to cook a tasty meal (or more rarely get take out food) just seems like one of the basic enjoyable things in life not to be missed. Is this a generational thing? Do younger people just not enjoy going to a farmer's market, to a local health food store, cook, etc.? I am not being judgmental, just curious.
delichon 2y ago
You can remove "fast-" from the headline and the first sentence is still true, but it's hard not to justify the expense of eating at all. I tend to go multiple years between eating at a restaurant of any kind, and buy my food in grocery stores. But I still feel the sticker shock. Eggs, beef, fish are particularly outrageous, but the large price increases are everywhere. It's cliche to notice how much a few bags of groceries costs now but when I'm walking out of the store with two small bags for $200+, I notice. So when you abandon fast food and change to preparing your own, it will help but less than you might hope.
- dns_snek 2y ago
  > it will help some but less than you might hope That sounds odd, do you buy particularly expensive ingredients? I'm not in the US, but I prep my own meals with average quality ingredients. Not accounting for the extra time that it takes (which amortizes well with meal prep), I probably spend between 1/4th and 1/3rd as much as I would spend if I were to eat a similar meal at a restaurant.
  - delichon 2y ago
    > That sounds odd, do you buy particularly expensive ingredients? Yes. Far more expensive than the cheap ingredients like the flours and oils of fast food. I focus on making my food as nutritionally dense as possible, which ain't cheap. But I ate a lot more than my share of fast-food first and did a lot of damage with it. I'm positive I'd be dead if I didn't change. That would certainly be a lot cheaper.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    Agree. I don't tip myself. And abundant portions at home are easy left-overs. And often the ingredients are not completely consumed by one meal and so amortize across a number of meals. I think if you run the real numbers, eating at home is still a huge savings. And this allowing that you are probably using higher quality ingredients.
- jmclnx 2y ago
  >So when you abandon fast food and change to preparing your own, it will help some but less than you might hope. While true, there are many people who cannot do this because they work 16+ hours per day. And if they have children it is even more difficult. To me, this points to the fact people in the US are not being paid a "living" wage. I even heard Walmart will help new employees apply for food stamps, that is sick because we are subsidizing the owners of Walmart and their stockholders.
bckr 2y ago
Try shopping at your local ethnic grocery store. There’s a Korean market with high quality cuts of pork and chicken for practically pennies in my city.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  ^ This. Ime, Ethnic markets didn't see significant inflation because I guess us grubby "third world" Asian and Latino immigrants are very price sensitive.
  - evilduck 2y ago
    Ethnic grocers are also not national chains trying to extract every cent of profit from a community.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      They absolutely try to extract every cent where they can. For example, in Pleasanton - [0] It's just difficult when I as an native am not going to get duped into spending $10 on "chai tea" when I know it's only worth $2 and the input cost at scale is $0.02. Just take a look at the HMart prices near a college campus or around a 2nd gen Asian American neighborhood and an HMart in a neighborhood with plenty of 1 and 1.5 Gen Asian Americans. [0] - https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/news/2020/05/07/pleasanton-store-owner-charged-with-price-gouging-amid-pandemic/ https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/news/2020/05/07/pleasanton-...
  - mark_l_watson 2y ago
    I agree! My personal favorites are Korean and Mexican markets. There is a Mexican market near where I live that optionally sells meat already brined. Properly brining meat is a nuisance, so nice get it pre-brined: just take it home and cook it.
- tjrifkm 2y ago
  [flagged]
- 2y ago
supakeen 2y ago
> Roberts, 38, now only gets fast food "as a rare treat". I feel that that is it should be? When I was young it was important enough to mention at the monday class circle if your grandparents had taken you to visit the Golden Arches and everyone would be very jealous.
- vidanay 2y ago
  Growing up in the 80's, I got fast food (McD's, Pizza Hut) maybe once every two or three weeks. I got to go to a "nice" restaurant perhaps twice a year. My parents however, left us with a Tombstone pizza or Swanson's TV dinner three times per week when they went out to dinner.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    > My parents however, left us with a Tombstone pizza or Swanson's TV dinner three times per week when they went out to dinner. I would consider this negligent parenting due to the poor nutrition of those meals. It’s not time consuming to cook some lentils or other protein and add some spice and eat some yogurt.
- smeej 2y ago
  I have a personal rule that if I can remember the last time I ate fast food, it's too soon to eat it again. That seems to space it out to no more than a handful of times a year, and I agree that seems to be about the oftenest I would like it to be.
- ravenstine 2y ago
  I don't disagree from a nutrition standpoint, but the very American innovation of cheap food arriving at your table fast now being seen as too expensive isn't a good sign from an economical perspective. This is like saying that if gas hit $10 that it's actually a good thing since people should drive less anyway. Like, yeah, but that's really not the key issue. Maybe the word orthogonal is what I'm looking for here?
  - xg15 2y ago
Clubber 2y ago
This is probably a good thing. When it was super easy and cheap to get a crap meal for $10, lots of people did it and lots of people got bigger and that $10 a day added up. For us, when we go out, we'll do a sit down restaurant and actually enjoy it more because it's rarer. It still costs pennies to make French fries. I'm not really sure why they charge $5 for them now. I'm sure inflation is real, but I'm sure some greedy Fs in corporate offices are taking advantage of the situation by artificially inflating prices because they now have an excuse to do so. People will only pay so much for crap food, until they don't. The last thing McDonalds wants is people to start to learn and enjoy cooking at home.
- mark_l_watson 2y ago
  re: French fries: buy an Air Frier, a one time expense. Then cut up potatoes yourself. Local markets sometimes sell potatoes very inexpensively.
cs702 2y ago
Over the past couple of weeks, I've come across quite a bit of anecdotal evidence suggesting that a lot of people in the US -- but especially those earning below median income -- badly need to earn more to make ends meet. Food, energy, entertainment, sneaky hidden fees, and high interest costs seem to be the main culprits. With unemployment near its lowest rate in 50+ years, the pressure is largely on employers to pay up if they want to retain good people.[a] I wouldn't be surprised if we see labor costs rising in the near term, putting pressure on companies everywhere to raise consumer prices further. Some economists and government officials claim that inflation is under control, but the anecdotal data I'm seeing suggests it's too early to sing victory. I hope I'm wrong. --- [a] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/ https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/
cynicalsecurity 2y ago
Why the hell this idiotic website thinks I automatically want to watch their videos.
dzonga 2y ago
like everything else, the common people are suffering. it's not just fast food or restaurant prices. even regular groceries. then you hear someone from gvt saying rejoice the economy is booming. same as economists, forgetting people don't eat numbers. just wish we had empathy, for our fellow human beings that's all.
empath-nirvana 2y ago
This is just a consequence of the inflation countermeasures working. During the inflationary period, people were flush with cash, demand increased, there were shortages, everyone raised prices, profits surged, companies hired workers for higher wages, people got more money, etc.. Everyone was mad because they got big raises, which were obviously the result of all their hard work which corporations suddenly saw and appreciated for a large percentage of people all at once and _also_ "greedy corporations" suddenly en masse decided that they no longer wanted to be charitable enterprises and decided to raise prices to steal money from the pockets of hard working americans. Or, you know, there was a bunch of inflation and wages and prices went up in parallel. And now money is no longer flowing into the economy, some companies went too far raising prices anticipating more inflation, and now they're losing sales and that's hurting profits, and they're going to end up cutting prices to increase sales and maximize profits again. Nature is healing. I think a lot of people have the impression that inflation reduces how much stuff people can afford and generally it's fairly neutral in that respect. There's a certain amount of production and a certain amount of demand and in general it will balance out and no matter what's' going on with inflation people are gonna be able to afford the same amount of stuff. I think people had this idea that if we got inflation under control that suddenly everyone would be able to afford to buy all the stuff they wanted to buy, and they just can't. The main reason inflation is bad for most people is instability and you have to keep getting raises to keep up with prices. You get a raise, you can suddenly buy some stuff you couldn't before -- prices go up and now you can't again. Then you get a raise, can afford to buy a bunch of stuff, and prices go up and now you can't again. (not to mention that toll it takes on saving, but even that isn't that bad if you own stock instead of holding cash, because asset prices inflate, also)
SomeoneFromCA 2y ago
I live in a developing country. We stopped buying cakes/pastries long time ago, as they have become way too expensive for the quality. Home baked stuff is like 1/3 price for better quality.
xg15 2y ago
Not an American, so I may have incomplete information here, but I've read about "food deserts"[1] in US cities, i.e. neighborhoods (usually poor) where there are no grocery stores in reasonable distance and the only affordable source of food for poor families are fast food places. That's a problem in itself but it may mean that the headline "fast-food prices rising" may not be as ridiculous as it sounds. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
- maxerickson 2y ago
  It only really impacts people that don't own a vehicle, something like 10% of households. In urban areas, most housing is within a couple of miles of a real grocery store (so access with a vehicle is not an issue). In my relatively rural county, the food deserts are mostly outside of the towns, where people, for the most part anyway, are living there by choice (they want the outdoor space/distance from neighbors).
  - inetknght 2y ago
    I live in (barely) rural part of Texas. There's a Dollar General I could walk to if I needed. But the nearest full size grocery store is 15 minutes away by car -- doing 60mph for most of the way. It'd be a 5 or 6 hour round-trip to walk -- maybe 2 hours to get there, maybe 15 minutes to shop, and 3 hours to walk back laden with groceries. Without the large volume that a vehicle could carry, that walk would need to occur quite often. With a car, I just stock up groceries about once every 4-6 weeks and it all fits in my trunk.
imiric 2y ago
I find it hard to sympathize with consumers about rising food prices in a country with overabundance of highly caloric and cheap options everywhere. If this hike is truly due to increasing labor costs: good. A decent living standard in the world's greatest economy shouldn't be a privilege. If the hike is due to corporate greed, then that's shitty, but it's arguably good for the consumer who will now seek out healthier dietary options. Fast food being part of a regular diet is partially responsible for the abysmal health epidemic in the US, and other countries this has spread to. Restricting access to it by raising prices can only be a good thing.
smeej 2y ago
I would love to see the actual stats on what people are doing instead. Like, are they getting more takeaway from other places, because the prices are closer now? Or are they biting the bullet and cooking at home? There might be a few people who are just eating less often, but I can't imagine that's happening at high enough numbers to account for the change. I justified fast food to myself for a long time, telling myself I didn't have the bandwidth to plan meals, cook them, etc., and certainly not on busy days. I don't remember where I found the idea, but eventually I ended up with two 2-week meal plans. I saved those grocery lists on the "to-go" order list for the grocer that's on my way home, and once every other week, I stop in and some nice employee brings the food out to my car. It doesn't even cost extra to have them do the shopping. For $15, they'd even bring it to my doorstep. It does mean spending 3 hours every other weekend prepping the meals for the two weeks (it can be done in three 1-hour slots if it needs to), but then all I do at any given meal time is pull a jar out of the fridge, reheat it, and eat it. Most of the meals are fine cold too, just slightly less enjoyable. I have a little insulated lunchbox I put the food in if I think I might not be home at mealtime. It took a little iterating, but it's vastly simpler, easier, healthier, and more convenient for me than the fast food ever was, and I've wondered since then if people are just intimidated by the change, or have some other reason that really does make fast food their best option.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  I’d be curious to know your recipes/plans - I can never seem to get something that’s healthy, cost conscious, and stable for 2 weeks in a prep plan. For myself, I eat a lot of the local grocery store’s (HEB which I like a lot) prepared salads and sandwiches. They also sell a lot of pre-seasoned meat for grilling that I rather enjoy. Also we have a ton of Texmex restaurants here which are fairly unhealthy, but you can do pretty good if you divide one of their meals in half and get two servings, and the price for that is usually around the cost of a single fast-food meal. I also have the privilege of sharing a lot of meals with my parents and aunt/uncle as we are all locals.
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  Yea meal prepping has been huge for me. It can even turn cooking into a more communal experience if you get a few friends together on Sundays and spend a few hours in the kitchen. Cooking was very lonely for me before I made a day of it every other week. Better than fast food, cheaper than fast food, faster than fast food.
Aurornis 2y ago
I started mentoring college students several years ago. I’ve been stunned by some of their spending habits. Many of them are just not price sensitive at all, even when they should be. Many will complain about how expensive fast food is, but then brag that they refuse to learn how to cook. Some will complain about how expensive fast food is, then talk about going to Five Guys or other expensive fast food places multiple times per week. It’s strange to hear someone complain about how they can’t afford their daily Starbucks any more, yet they continue getting it every single day. I don’t know what happened. I didn’t go to college all that long ago, but even then it was rare to see someone drinking daily expensive coffees and fast food was more of a treat than a meal plan. Now I hear college students complaining about how expensive their DoorDash was on a regular basis, which blows my mind as an adult who could afford DoorDash but avoids it because it’s so expensive. It’s like supply and demand suddenly broke because a lot of people started downplaying the price factor into their decision making. I don’t know what it is. Maybe the way we’ve let people load up on $100K of loans at the beginning of adulthood and the payments are delayed until much later? I’ve witness multiple conversations where students wonder if they could get more student loans to help free up their budget to buy brand new cars or really nice apartments or even vacations. For some, it’s like a magic money faucet that unlocks whatever they want, and the consequences haven’t even begun to arrive yet because they haven’t graduated. I really worry about the downstream effects this has on perceptions about budgeting and how expensive things are. When you’ve just been given a $100K loan but haven’t received a bill yet, that $15 burger seems like nothing.
- prirun 2y ago
  I grew up in the 60's and 70's in a middle-class family. Moms generally didn't work until maybe the mid 70's. In my family, there was no "allowance" and no extra money, so anything we (kids) wanted, we had to work for: babysitting and mowing yards starting at 12, working at a grocery store at 15 (I remember because my mom had to drive me to work), etc. You want a new bike, you save for it and buy it. I started working at 12 and never stopped until I took a breather in my early 30's and could afford to not work a few months. It seems to me that many kids of the last couple of middle-class generations were raised in 2-income families that could be more generous with their kids. My nephews for example didn't work much until their 20's, didn't work during college (only summers), had nicer cars, went on vacations, etc. I know "kids" who are now 30, working at restaurants or bars, sharing apartments, maybe don't have a car, are walking to work, and use DoorDash because they don't have a car to get food and/or groceries (they don't know how to cook either, because never learned while growing up). Way different upbringings. A lot of young adults who do have money don't want kids because they are used to having and spending money and are smart enough to realize that kids will greatly cramp their lifestyle. The ones who are struggling know they can't afford kids: they're barely staying afloat themselves.
subpixel 2y ago
I had a back and forth on Reddit about how the rest of the world is capable of taking their breakfast or lunch to work and it exposed the degree to which many people are behaviorally addicted to fat and salt. “I have a commute and no time to fry and egg or make a sandwich” but can wait 10-15m in a drive through twice a day.
- ghaff 2y ago
  When I sometimes used to go into an office I’d have a soup or something for lunch and ate breakfast at home. Never really used the cafeteria beyond the soup. Of course this wasn’t some fancy free lunch, much less dinner, thing.
- MyFedora 2y ago
  I can't imagine what the arguments looked like. No, you don't understand, it's impossible to wake up 10m early to fry an egg or make a sandwich? I don't get it.
bastard_op 2y ago
While I make good money, I came from a very humble start, and eating/ordering out has gotten downright absurd to do so now out of principal. The prices are simply outrageous for what you get, the service has gotten typically worse with quality of people, and the food is generally subpar, particularly with increase costs. Every where I go, it's the same disappointment, and I've had enough to minimize restaurant spend. The entire restaurant industry is in a tailspin, and driving away consumers is just adding dirt to their grave. I just feel sorry for the people that committed themselves to the industry that are having the carpet pulled out from underneath them.
nojvek 2y ago
Demand vs supply. Law of nature. Prices are high because consumers are willing to still spend at that prices. Restaurants are still making a big buck. Travel, entertainment - they’re all booming! One of the bigger issues is the rich get richer and they want less competition. There are fewer owners of 50th percentile of sales. Spend less, save and invest is the lesson. However our domaine loving brain can be hard to reason with.
johnea 2y ago
No one should eat that stuff...

44 points by koolba 2y ago

> "The whole conceit was that you were getting some OK-level of food for a low price and you could get it quick," Roberts said. "Now I can't justify the expense. If I'm paying $15 for a burger and fry and drink and it's McDonalds quality, forget about it — I'm going home." My n=1 - I live in a pretty upscale American city, and ~$15 will get you a very nice burger and fries (no drink) at some of the most upscale restaurants in town. Pay attention to their Happy Hours, and it's more like $11 or $12 (so you could add a soft drink). A huge portion of meaty lamb roganjosh & rice at my favorite Indian take-away is $16. Why would anyone ever want to go near a McDonalds?

vsnf 2y ago
A good burger will run you $25 in Boston. Wages are generally higher, but still. It's kind of insane. That being said, I noticed probably even 10+ years ago that fast food prices were a pretty bad deal.
- wand3r 2y ago
  I live in the Greater Boston area and you can still find decent meals for say $18 takeaway. I saw the chart on reddit and can't find it right now but McDa prices effectively doubled in the last 5ish years. Many fast food places way outpaced inflation. It makes almost no sense to go fast food. Cava is about $12-13 out the door. It's even crazier on the west coast where in and out exists. I don't understand how McDs exists and since its significantly more liked than Burger King, even in a HCOL area, I don't see how they make money.
- ravenstine 2y ago
  Boston's food prices are pretty nutty. I've been here for almost a month and a lot of things here are outrageously expensive. I'm not even talking about food that tourists are meant to eat, but just everyday basics. The funny thing too is that there's so many college kids here that the price of a mere burger seems like a low-level swindle to capitalize off the proliferation of student debt and gimmies from Late Boomer (Gen X) parents.
alephnerd 2y ago
> Why would anyone ever want to go near a McDonalds Depending on the franchisee, it's often one of the only late night options in town, giving sustenance to the stoners and post-drinks drunchies of the world.
- ravenstine 2y ago
  They also got in on the drive-thru cafe concept before Starbucks figured it out, thus a lot of people became accustomed to going to their local "McCafe" in the morning. Never had their coffee, but I've heard it's not half bad to at least being acceptable. Oddly enough, public opinion seems way more divided on the quality of Starbucks than that of McCafe.
  - deleted 2y ago
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blegr 2y ago
It's funny that restaurant burger prices in my EU country are basically the same as in your "upscale American city". I thought everything there was more expensive since the higher percentiles of your salaries are so much higher.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  North America has a unified agriculture market amongst Mexico, US, and Canada - drastically simplifying logistics. The EU has a similar setup, but 26 countries still adds some overhead versus 3 countries with some form of a "Commerce Clause". It makes sense though - a Polish farmer probably can't compete with a Dutch farmer at scale due to less capital to invest in relatively expensive automation or larger operations. At least you aren't paying East Asian prices for a lot of produce.
sureIy 2y ago
Don’t forget to factor tip and taxes into your prices. Without those it’s difficult to actually compare them to countries that actually show the final price.
- sneak 2y ago
  You don’t tip for takeaway unless you’re a mark.
sneak 2y ago
Try it at 00:30. In many places a Taco Bell is all that’s open.
joenot443 2y ago
There was a time when ~$3 could get you two very average 450kCal burgers from McDonald’s. One could hypothetically survive off $6/day. Less if you were in a cheap state. This is the experience people are disappointed about missing; McDonald’s was never about the big ticket combos, it’s always been about the value deals which couldn’t be found anywhere else. I worked for three years at a Canadian McDonald’s, week after week our most popular sandwiches were the McDouble and Junior Chicken, each coming in at $1.46 CDN after tax. Now they’re both $4.50 after tax, roughly a 300% increase in the span of 10 years. People are right to be upset: the entire category of ultra-cheap-takeout is being swept out from under them with McDonald’s being just one of many companies following the same trend.
- deleted 2y ago
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mark_l_watson 2y ago
re: McDonalds: This applies to Burger King also: both franchises have (usually) hidden away on their discount menus small 'classic' hamburgers: small burger and bun, pickles, mustard, and ketchup. They are very inexpensive (usually, but may depend on individual places). There little classic burgers remind me of when I was a kid, and I enjoy them. Two of them makes a light meal. I am in my 70s and very well off financially, but it makes me feel bad to see a young family in front of me doing custom orders for adults and kids, and run up a bill much more than going into a non-franchise locally owned restaurant and getting a real meal. Another tip for older people: Burger King offers a $1 large cup of coffee to seniors but you have to ask for it.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  Whataburger (a Texas regional chain) has (or at least they still did as of a year or so ago when I last ordered one) one of those basic burgers and I don’t believe it’s even on the menu - you just have to know about it. But I like their name for it - the “justaburger”; it’s just a burger.
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Burger_BS 2y ago
A burger at Applebee's is $13. Unless your idea of a "very nice burger" at an "upscale" restaurant is Five Guys you're full of it.
- bell-cot 2y ago
  Ann Arbor locals generally don't compare The Gandy Dancer or Weber's to Applebee's. I'll assume that you are not from this area? (Admittedly, you can spend $29 on a burger at West End Grill. Though that's not with fries, but their excellent sautéed vegetables, and choice of soup or salad. And if you're dining there, I'd really suggest spending a bit more to get their smoked duck.)
lukas099 2y ago
McDonalds is a great place to hang out. It’s well-lit, down to earth, not too loud or quiet, you can serve yourself drinks, and meet people from all walks of life in there.

ilaksh 2y ago

What is hard for me to justify on a routine basis is delivery. It ends up being $20 for half of a meal even when I go with cheap fast food. So I always want more food than that, which will be $30+ easily. For one person, from the least expensive restaurants. I guess it's different if I have a "real" contract. But right now I am trying to save "runway" for my current "startup" and it seems like opening DoorDash more than once or twice a month is a pretty bad idea.

bckr 2y ago
Go ahead, take off the scare quotes. You’ll feel better, founder.
orev 2y ago
From my perspective, food delivery apps have always been in the category of an extreme luxury, and I’m still somewhat shocked how many people seem to consider them as something to use on a regular basis. I find them useful for placing an order in advance if I really want takeout, but then I go pick it up (I know there are still fees involved when ordering through an app, but I’ll often use the app just for the menu and call the restaurant directly to place the order). At that point I’m usually ready for a break in whatever I’m doing anyway. But for people who order regularly, being able to cook and feed yourself is an essential life skill that should not be replaced by getting food delivery all the time.
- ghaff 2y ago
  Some traditional city delivery services like the local Chinese restaurant may be somewhat reasonable but I have literally never used one of the app-enabled delivery services nor been tempted to do so. I feel like there are a bunch of basically luxury services that have been normalized.
- mark_l_watson 2y ago
  re: "From my perspective, food delivery apps have always been in the category of an extreme luxury": Of course it is! I am in my 70s and well off financially and I only use food delivery in the rare event both my wife and I are ill at the same time. I find it a pleasure to run out to get takeout food, or more usually stop by my local produce store or local market and get something to make dinner. I am a very busy person, and at the end of each day I have never had enough time to do everything I wanted to do that day, but still spending 20 minutes to get food, a little more time to cook a tasty meal (or more rarely get take out food) just seems like one of the basic enjoyable things in life not to be missed. Is this a generational thing? Do younger people just not enjoy going to a farmer's market, to a local health food store, cook, etc.? I am not being judgmental, just curious.

delichon 2y ago

You can remove "fast-" from the headline and the first sentence is still true, but it's hard not to justify the expense of eating at all. I tend to go multiple years between eating at a restaurant of any kind, and buy my food in grocery stores. But I still feel the sticker shock. Eggs, beef, fish are particularly outrageous, but the large price increases are everywhere. It's cliche to notice how much a few bags of groceries costs now but when I'm walking out of the store with two small bags for $200+, I notice. So when you abandon fast food and change to preparing your own, it will help but less than you might hope.

dns_snek 2y ago
> it will help some but less than you might hope That sounds odd, do you buy particularly expensive ingredients? I'm not in the US, but I prep my own meals with average quality ingredients. Not accounting for the extra time that it takes (which amortizes well with meal prep), I probably spend between 1/4th and 1/3rd as much as I would spend if I were to eat a similar meal at a restaurant.
- delichon 2y ago
  > That sounds odd, do you buy particularly expensive ingredients? Yes. Far more expensive than the cheap ingredients like the flours and oils of fast food. I focus on making my food as nutritionally dense as possible, which ain't cheap. But I ate a lot more than my share of fast-food first and did a lot of damage with it. I'm positive I'd be dead if I didn't change. That would certainly be a lot cheaper.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  Agree. I don't tip myself. And abundant portions at home are easy left-overs. And often the ingredients are not completely consumed by one meal and so amortize across a number of meals. I think if you run the real numbers, eating at home is still a huge savings. And this allowing that you are probably using higher quality ingredients.
jmclnx 2y ago
>So when you abandon fast food and change to preparing your own, it will help some but less than you might hope. While true, there are many people who cannot do this because they work 16+ hours per day. And if they have children it is even more difficult. To me, this points to the fact people in the US are not being paid a "living" wage. I even heard Walmart will help new employees apply for food stamps, that is sick because we are subsidizing the owners of Walmart and their stockholders.

bckr 2y ago

Try shopping at your local ethnic grocery store. There’s a Korean market with high quality cuts of pork and chicken for practically pennies in my city.

alephnerd 2y ago
^ This. Ime, Ethnic markets didn't see significant inflation because I guess us grubby "third world" Asian and Latino immigrants are very price sensitive.
- evilduck 2y ago
  Ethnic grocers are also not national chains trying to extract every cent of profit from a community.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    They absolutely try to extract every cent where they can. For example, in Pleasanton - [0] It's just difficult when I as an native am not going to get duped into spending $10 on "chai tea" when I know it's only worth $2 and the input cost at scale is $0.02. Just take a look at the HMart prices near a college campus or around a 2nd gen Asian American neighborhood and an HMart in a neighborhood with plenty of 1 and 1.5 Gen Asian Americans. [0] - https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/news/2020/05/07/pleasanton-store-owner-charged-with-price-gouging-amid-pandemic/ https://www.pleasantonweekly.com/news/2020/05/07/pleasanton-...
- mark_l_watson 2y ago
  I agree! My personal favorites are Korean and Mexican markets. There is a Mexican market near where I live that optionally sells meat already brined. Properly brining meat is a nuisance, so nice get it pre-brined: just take it home and cook it.
tjrifkm 2y ago
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2y ago

supakeen 2y ago

> Roberts, 38, now only gets fast food "as a rare treat". I feel that that is it should be? When I was young it was important enough to mention at the monday class circle if your grandparents had taken you to visit the Golden Arches and everyone would be very jealous.

vidanay 2y ago
Growing up in the 80's, I got fast food (McD's, Pizza Hut) maybe once every two or three weeks. I got to go to a "nice" restaurant perhaps twice a year. My parents however, left us with a Tombstone pizza or Swanson's TV dinner three times per week when they went out to dinner.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  > My parents however, left us with a Tombstone pizza or Swanson's TV dinner three times per week when they went out to dinner. I would consider this negligent parenting due to the poor nutrition of those meals. It’s not time consuming to cook some lentils or other protein and add some spice and eat some yogurt.
smeej 2y ago
I have a personal rule that if I can remember the last time I ate fast food, it's too soon to eat it again. That seems to space it out to no more than a handful of times a year, and I agree that seems to be about the oftenest I would like it to be.
ravenstine 2y ago
I don't disagree from a nutrition standpoint, but the very American innovation of cheap food arriving at your table fast now being seen as too expensive isn't a good sign from an economical perspective. This is like saying that if gas hit $10 that it's actually a good thing since people should drive less anyway. Like, yeah, but that's really not the key issue. Maybe the word orthogonal is what I'm looking for here?
- xg15 2y ago

Clubber 2y ago

This is probably a good thing. When it was super easy and cheap to get a crap meal for $10, lots of people did it and lots of people got bigger and that $10 a day added up. For us, when we go out, we'll do a sit down restaurant and actually enjoy it more because it's rarer. It still costs pennies to make French fries. I'm not really sure why they charge $5 for them now. I'm sure inflation is real, but I'm sure some greedy Fs in corporate offices are taking advantage of the situation by artificially inflating prices because they now have an excuse to do so. People will only pay so much for crap food, until they don't. The last thing McDonalds wants is people to start to learn and enjoy cooking at home.

mark_l_watson 2y ago
re: French fries: buy an Air Frier, a one time expense. Then cut up potatoes yourself. Local markets sometimes sell potatoes very inexpensively.

cs702 2y ago

Over the past couple of weeks, I've come across quite a bit of anecdotal evidence suggesting that a lot of people in the US -- but especially those earning below median income -- badly need to earn more to make ends meet. Food, energy, entertainment, sneaky hidden fees, and high interest costs seem to be the main culprits. With unemployment near its lowest rate in 50+ years, the pressure is largely on employers to pay up if they want to retain good people.[a] I wouldn't be surprised if we see labor costs rising in the near term, putting pressure on companies everywhere to raise consumer prices further. Some economists and government officials claim that inflation is under control, but the anecdotal data I'm seeing suggests it's too early to sing victory. I hope I'm wrong. --- [a] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/ https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/

cynicalsecurity 2y ago

Why the hell this idiotic website thinks I automatically want to watch their videos.

dzonga 2y ago

like everything else, the common people are suffering. it's not just fast food or restaurant prices. even regular groceries. then you hear someone from gvt saying rejoice the economy is booming. same as economists, forgetting people don't eat numbers. just wish we had empathy, for our fellow human beings that's all.

empath-nirvana 2y ago

This is just a consequence of the inflation countermeasures working. During the inflationary period, people were flush with cash, demand increased, there were shortages, everyone raised prices, profits surged, companies hired workers for higher wages, people got more money, etc.. Everyone was mad because they got big raises, which were obviously the result of all their hard work which corporations suddenly saw and appreciated for a large percentage of people all at once and _also_ "greedy corporations" suddenly en masse decided that they no longer wanted to be charitable enterprises and decided to raise prices to steal money from the pockets of hard working americans. Or, you know, there was a bunch of inflation and wages and prices went up in parallel. And now money is no longer flowing into the economy, some companies went too far raising prices anticipating more inflation, and now they're losing sales and that's hurting profits, and they're going to end up cutting prices to increase sales and maximize profits again. Nature is healing. I think a lot of people have the impression that inflation reduces how much stuff people can afford and generally it's fairly neutral in that respect. There's a certain amount of production and a certain amount of demand and in general it will balance out and no matter what's' going on with inflation people are gonna be able to afford the same amount of stuff. I think people had this idea that if we got inflation under control that suddenly everyone would be able to afford to buy all the stuff they wanted to buy, and they just can't. The main reason inflation is bad for most people is instability and you have to keep getting raises to keep up with prices. You get a raise, you can suddenly buy some stuff you couldn't before -- prices go up and now you can't again. Then you get a raise, can afford to buy a bunch of stuff, and prices go up and now you can't again. (not to mention that toll it takes on saving, but even that isn't that bad if you own stock instead of holding cash, because asset prices inflate, also)

SomeoneFromCA 2y ago

I live in a developing country. We stopped buying cakes/pastries long time ago, as they have become way too expensive for the quality. Home baked stuff is like 1/3 price for better quality.

xg15 2y ago

Not an American, so I may have incomplete information here, but I've read about "food deserts"[1] in US cities, i.e. neighborhoods (usually poor) where there are no grocery stores in reasonable distance and the only affordable source of food for poor families are fast food places. That's a problem in itself but it may mean that the headline "fast-food prices rising" may not be as ridiculous as it sounds. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert

maxerickson 2y ago
It only really impacts people that don't own a vehicle, something like 10% of households. In urban areas, most housing is within a couple of miles of a real grocery store (so access with a vehicle is not an issue). In my relatively rural county, the food deserts are mostly outside of the towns, where people, for the most part anyway, are living there by choice (they want the outdoor space/distance from neighbors).
- inetknght 2y ago
  I live in (barely) rural part of Texas. There's a Dollar General I could walk to if I needed. But the nearest full size grocery store is 15 minutes away by car -- doing 60mph for most of the way. It'd be a 5 or 6 hour round-trip to walk -- maybe 2 hours to get there, maybe 15 minutes to shop, and 3 hours to walk back laden with groceries. Without the large volume that a vehicle could carry, that walk would need to occur quite often. With a car, I just stock up groceries about once every 4-6 weeks and it all fits in my trunk.

imiric 2y ago

I find it hard to sympathize with consumers about rising food prices in a country with overabundance of highly caloric and cheap options everywhere. If this hike is truly due to increasing labor costs: good. A decent living standard in the world's greatest economy shouldn't be a privilege. If the hike is due to corporate greed, then that's shitty, but it's arguably good for the consumer who will now seek out healthier dietary options. Fast food being part of a regular diet is partially responsible for the abysmal health epidemic in the US, and other countries this has spread to. Restricting access to it by raising prices can only be a good thing.

smeej 2y ago

I would love to see the actual stats on what people are doing instead. Like, are they getting more takeaway from other places, because the prices are closer now? Or are they biting the bullet and cooking at home? There might be a few people who are just eating less often, but I can't imagine that's happening at high enough numbers to account for the change. I justified fast food to myself for a long time, telling myself I didn't have the bandwidth to plan meals, cook them, etc., and certainly not on busy days. I don't remember where I found the idea, but eventually I ended up with two 2-week meal plans. I saved those grocery lists on the "to-go" order list for the grocer that's on my way home, and once every other week, I stop in and some nice employee brings the food out to my car. It doesn't even cost extra to have them do the shopping. For $15, they'd even bring it to my doorstep. It does mean spending 3 hours every other weekend prepping the meals for the two weeks (it can be done in three 1-hour slots if it needs to), but then all I do at any given meal time is pull a jar out of the fridge, reheat it, and eat it. Most of the meals are fine cold too, just slightly less enjoyable. I have a little insulated lunchbox I put the food in if I think I might not be home at mealtime. It took a little iterating, but it's vastly simpler, easier, healthier, and more convenient for me than the fast food ever was, and I've wondered since then if people are just intimidated by the change, or have some other reason that really does make fast food their best option.

silverquiet 2y ago
I’d be curious to know your recipes/plans - I can never seem to get something that’s healthy, cost conscious, and stable for 2 weeks in a prep plan. For myself, I eat a lot of the local grocery store’s (HEB which I like a lot) prepared salads and sandwiches. They also sell a lot of pre-seasoned meat for grilling that I rather enjoy. Also we have a ton of Texmex restaurants here which are fairly unhealthy, but you can do pretty good if you divide one of their meals in half and get two servings, and the price for that is usually around the cost of a single fast-food meal. I also have the privilege of sharing a lot of meals with my parents and aunt/uncle as we are all locals.
HDThoreaun 2y ago
Yea meal prepping has been huge for me. It can even turn cooking into a more communal experience if you get a few friends together on Sundays and spend a few hours in the kitchen. Cooking was very lonely for me before I made a day of it every other week. Better than fast food, cheaper than fast food, faster than fast food.

Aurornis 2y ago

I started mentoring college students several years ago. I’ve been stunned by some of their spending habits. Many of them are just not price sensitive at all, even when they should be. Many will complain about how expensive fast food is, but then brag that they refuse to learn how to cook. Some will complain about how expensive fast food is, then talk about going to Five Guys or other expensive fast food places multiple times per week. It’s strange to hear someone complain about how they can’t afford their daily Starbucks any more, yet they continue getting it every single day. I don’t know what happened. I didn’t go to college all that long ago, but even then it was rare to see someone drinking daily expensive coffees and fast food was more of a treat than a meal plan. Now I hear college students complaining about how expensive their DoorDash was on a regular basis, which blows my mind as an adult who could afford DoorDash but avoids it because it’s so expensive. It’s like supply and demand suddenly broke because a lot of people started downplaying the price factor into their decision making. I don’t know what it is. Maybe the way we’ve let people load up on $100K of loans at the beginning of adulthood and the payments are delayed until much later? I’ve witness multiple conversations where students wonder if they could get more student loans to help free up their budget to buy brand new cars or really nice apartments or even vacations. For some, it’s like a magic money faucet that unlocks whatever they want, and the consequences haven’t even begun to arrive yet because they haven’t graduated. I really worry about the downstream effects this has on perceptions about budgeting and how expensive things are. When you’ve just been given a $100K loan but haven’t received a bill yet, that $15 burger seems like nothing.

prirun 2y ago
I grew up in the 60's and 70's in a middle-class family. Moms generally didn't work until maybe the mid 70's. In my family, there was no "allowance" and no extra money, so anything we (kids) wanted, we had to work for: babysitting and mowing yards starting at 12, working at a grocery store at 15 (I remember because my mom had to drive me to work), etc. You want a new bike, you save for it and buy it. I started working at 12 and never stopped until I took a breather in my early 30's and could afford to not work a few months. It seems to me that many kids of the last couple of middle-class generations were raised in 2-income families that could be more generous with their kids. My nephews for example didn't work much until their 20's, didn't work during college (only summers), had nicer cars, went on vacations, etc. I know "kids" who are now 30, working at restaurants or bars, sharing apartments, maybe don't have a car, are walking to work, and use DoorDash because they don't have a car to get food and/or groceries (they don't know how to cook either, because never learned while growing up). Way different upbringings. A lot of young adults who do have money don't want kids because they are used to having and spending money and are smart enough to realize that kids will greatly cramp their lifestyle. The ones who are struggling know they can't afford kids: they're barely staying afloat themselves.

subpixel 2y ago

I had a back and forth on Reddit about how the rest of the world is capable of taking their breakfast or lunch to work and it exposed the degree to which many people are behaviorally addicted to fat and salt. “I have a commute and no time to fry and egg or make a sandwich” but can wait 10-15m in a drive through twice a day.

ghaff 2y ago
When I sometimes used to go into an office I’d have a soup or something for lunch and ate breakfast at home. Never really used the cafeteria beyond the soup. Of course this wasn’t some fancy free lunch, much less dinner, thing.
MyFedora 2y ago
I can't imagine what the arguments looked like. No, you don't understand, it's impossible to wake up 10m early to fry an egg or make a sandwich? I don't get it.

bastard_op 2y ago

While I make good money, I came from a very humble start, and eating/ordering out has gotten downright absurd to do so now out of principal. The prices are simply outrageous for what you get, the service has gotten typically worse with quality of people, and the food is generally subpar, particularly with increase costs. Every where I go, it's the same disappointment, and I've had enough to minimize restaurant spend. The entire restaurant industry is in a tailspin, and driving away consumers is just adding dirt to their grave. I just feel sorry for the people that committed themselves to the industry that are having the carpet pulled out from underneath them.

nojvek 2y ago

Demand vs supply. Law of nature. Prices are high because consumers are willing to still spend at that prices. Restaurants are still making a big buck. Travel, entertainment - they’re all booming! One of the bigger issues is the rich get richer and they want less competition. There are fewer owners of 50th percentile of sales. Spend less, save and invest is the lesson. However our domaine loving brain can be hard to reason with.

johnea 2y ago

No one should eat that stuff...