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We really need to figure out ways to get big fat data pipes to places that are naturally cold. Like imagine if we could get big pipes to Antarctica and then bu

We really need to figure out ways to get big fat data pipes to places that are naturally cold. Like imagine if we could get big pipes to Antarctica and then build data centers there. Plenty of fresh water and cold enough that you could almost just cool it with outside air, and you can exhaust the water right back outside to freeze back up. You could also use the exhaust heat to warm up the living spaces nearby. The only question would be, would it create so much heat in one spot that it would actually warm up the environment too much? The main thing stopping this now is lack of high throughput low latency data to the continent.

MrLeap 2y ago
This is how the first chapter would start in a book where somebody builds a death ray in Antarctica.
bell-cot 2y ago
Minor detail: The myriad megajoules of heat which any major DC has got to breathe out...were previously inhaled as electrical energy. And multi-megawatt electrical service is quite difficult to source in most extremely cold places.
- jedberg 2y ago
  You could use solar panels for 1/2 the year and wind all year. Some stations are doing that today. But yes, this is a major concern. A few modern nuclear plants would solve the problem, but you'd have to build them. It wouldn't be cheap.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  While not “extremely” cold, Quebec’s hydroelectric dams are mostly in the central/north of the province. I think Norway is similar to the point where electricity pricing is a lot cheaper in the north because of limited transmission capacity. Both would be better choices than Virginia.
dscottboggs 2y ago
Isn't Antarctica melting already? We need to slow down damn it.
jmclnx 2y ago
>The only question would be, would it create so much heat in one spot that it would actually warm up the environment too much? I doubt it, the bigger issue would be Global Warming, but What you said makes sense on paper, but the center will sink into the ice quickly. I remember reading that a base down there had to be moved due to it sinking.
AS37 2y ago
> The only question would be, would it create so much heat in one spot that it would actually warm up the environment too much? Probably not at a large scale, although similar situations have led to odd headlines like 'Florida's manatees are addicted to power plants'. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240328-floridas-manatees-are-hooked-on-power-plants https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240328-floridas-manatee...
ck2 2y ago
Wasn't google looking at building datacenters deep in the ocean for "free" cooling? https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/sustainability/project-natick-underwater-datacenter/ https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/sustainability/pr... https://www.wired.com/story/data-centres-underwater-climate-crisis/ https://www.wired.com/story/data-centres-underwater-climate-... https://news.ufl.edu/2024/05/underwater-data-center-security/ https://news.ufl.edu/2024/05/underwater-data-center-security... https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/servers/china-has-started-building-an-underwater-data-center-performance-is-equivalent-to-6-million-pcs-and-aims-to-save-nearly-ten-soccer-fields-of-land-and-122-million-kwh-of-electricity https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/servers/china-has-star...
- jedberg 2y ago
  Yes, but saltwater is very corrosive. Also they were hard to get to. A datacenter in the arctic regions would at least be accessible -- you could build attached housing and heat it with waste heat.
  - ck2 2y ago
    Building things on permafrost always ends badly, that is huge problem in Alaska where they have to constantly re-level buildings and build things on pylons.
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    Lake Ontario has 4C water year round not far from shore. Just need a big enough and deep enough lake in a temperate climate. Not sure when all that added heat becomes a problem, but it’s gotta get dumped somewhere.
Dove 2y ago
Building on permafrost is actually tricky with just residential levels of heat - houses are sometimes built on stilts in order to avoid melting the ground under them and making it unstable. But I like where your head is at. Maybe an offshore platform? Alternatively, there are lots of places that aren't permafrost-cold which are nonetheless quite cool underground year round. I wonder how big a geothermal system would have to be to be an effective heat sink for a data center.
- Dove 2y ago
  > I wonder how big a geothermal system would have to be to be an effective heat sink for a data center. Ah. 500 feet of pipe per 3.5 kW. That might be why they don't do it that way. XD
  - Dove 2y ago
    Oh! Or when they do, it involves a 35 acre lake. https://betterbuildingssolutioncenter.energy.gov/showcase-projects/iron-mountain-data-centers-geothermal-cooling-system https://betterbuildingssolutioncenter.energy.gov/showcase-pr...
    - Scoundreller 2y ago
      Or a 7000 acre reservoir for a nuclear plant: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Texas_Nuclear_Generating_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Texas_Nuclear_Generati...
giantg2 2y ago
Microsoft is already working on undersea data centers. I assume some sort of geothermal(including water based) could be used in many regions already.

MrLeap 2y ago

This is how the first chapter would start in a book where somebody builds a death ray in Antarctica.

bell-cot 2y ago

Minor detail: The myriad megajoules of heat which any major DC has got to breathe out...were previously inhaled as electrical energy. And multi-megawatt electrical service is quite difficult to source in most extremely cold places.

jedberg 2y ago
You could use solar panels for 1/2 the year and wind all year. Some stations are doing that today. But yes, this is a major concern. A few modern nuclear plants would solve the problem, but you'd have to build them. It wouldn't be cheap.
Scoundreller 2y ago
While not “extremely” cold, Quebec’s hydroelectric dams are mostly in the central/north of the province. I think Norway is similar to the point where electricity pricing is a lot cheaper in the north because of limited transmission capacity. Both would be better choices than Virginia.

dscottboggs 2y ago

Isn't Antarctica melting already? We need to slow down damn it.

jmclnx 2y ago

>The only question would be, would it create so much heat in one spot that it would actually warm up the environment too much? I doubt it, the bigger issue would be Global Warming, but What you said makes sense on paper, but the center will sink into the ice quickly. I remember reading that a base down there had to be moved due to it sinking.

AS37 2y ago

> The only question would be, would it create so much heat in one spot that it would actually warm up the environment too much? Probably not at a large scale, although similar situations have led to odd headlines like 'Florida's manatees are addicted to power plants'. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240328-floridas-manatees-are-hooked-on-power-plants https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240328-floridas-manatee...

ck2 2y ago

Wasn't google looking at building datacenters deep in the ocean for "free" cooling? https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/sustainability/project-natick-underwater-datacenter/ https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/sustainability/pr... https://www.wired.com/story/data-centres-underwater-climate-crisis/ https://www.wired.com/story/data-centres-underwater-climate-... https://news.ufl.edu/2024/05/underwater-data-center-security/ https://news.ufl.edu/2024/05/underwater-data-center-security... https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/servers/china-has-started-building-an-underwater-data-center-performance-is-equivalent-to-6-million-pcs-and-aims-to-save-nearly-ten-soccer-fields-of-land-and-122-million-kwh-of-electricity https://www.tomshardware.com/desktops/servers/china-has-star...

jedberg 2y ago
Yes, but saltwater is very corrosive. Also they were hard to get to. A datacenter in the arctic regions would at least be accessible -- you could build attached housing and heat it with waste heat.
- ck2 2y ago
  Building things on permafrost always ends badly, that is huge problem in Alaska where they have to constantly re-level buildings and build things on pylons.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  Lake Ontario has 4C water year round not far from shore. Just need a big enough and deep enough lake in a temperate climate. Not sure when all that added heat becomes a problem, but it’s gotta get dumped somewhere.

Dove 2y ago

Building on permafrost is actually tricky with just residential levels of heat - houses are sometimes built on stilts in order to avoid melting the ground under them and making it unstable. But I like where your head is at. Maybe an offshore platform? Alternatively, there are lots of places that aren't permafrost-cold which are nonetheless quite cool underground year round. I wonder how big a geothermal system would have to be to be an effective heat sink for a data center.

Dove 2y ago
> I wonder how big a geothermal system would have to be to be an effective heat sink for a data center. Ah. 500 feet of pipe per 3.5 kW. That might be why they don't do it that way. XD
- Dove 2y ago
  Oh! Or when they do, it involves a 35 acre lake. https://betterbuildingssolutioncenter.energy.gov/showcase-projects/iron-mountain-data-centers-geothermal-cooling-system https://betterbuildingssolutioncenter.energy.gov/showcase-pr...
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    Or a 7000 acre reservoir for a nuclear plant: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Texas_Nuclear_Generating_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Texas_Nuclear_Generati...

giantg2 2y ago

Microsoft is already working on undersea data centers. I assume some sort of geothermal(including water based) could be used in many regions already.