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I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam Run by Fake Hosts on Airbnb (2019)
- fnordian_slip 2y agoIt's rather sad that even the author concluded that they would continue to use Airbnb in the future, and there are no real consequences for the company. The profit from scammers as much as from legitimate users, so like Google (blogspam) or Amazon (fakes) or Etsy (drop shipping), they don't really care about them. I've limited my exposure to these companies over the last years. But this is a path with a lot of friction, and unlikely to be chosen by most users, so until politicians are pressured enough into doing something, I believe that the scammers will continue to prosper.
- mjburgess 2y agoUntil a competitor comes along. Companies, do in the end, suffer. ChatGPT is little more than Google c. 2010
- fnordian_slip 2y agoYou are correct, of course, but then the circle of enshittification[0] begins anew. The competitor starts out great, as Google did, with its clean front page without any bullshit. They defeat the incumbents, establish themselves, create a quasi-monopoly and begin extracting maximum value while coasting on their reputation. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the wheel of time [1], and it seems that this has carried over into our world. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time
- amelius 2y agoIf Airbnb has a penalty of any kind for property owners to list on competitor websites, then it will be very difficult for competitors to enter the market.
- hakanderyal 2y agoIt's up to the relevant regulators of relevant countries to ensure that doesn't happen. This shouldn't be a barrier for entry.
- amelius 2y agoThe problem is that if you list on 2 websites at the same time, then these websites cannot guarantee availability anymore, unless there is some protocol to communicate this. E.g. what if someone books an apartment on website 1, and another person books the same apartment on website 2 at the same time.
- kbos87 2y agoThere is an ecosystem of third party tools that communicate calendar availability between platforms to help solve this problem
- HenrikB 2y agoSeems like a technical problem that could be solved, if they want to
- amelius 2y agoOf course the incumbents (Airbnb) will forever try to stall the development and adoption of it.
- hakanderyal 2y agoThis is a somewhat solved problem by hotel reservation platforms. Responsibility to notify the platform about availability changes are on the property owners. They pay some fines or (some other form of cost) if they have to cancel a reservation due to clashes.
- zo1 2y agoUsually hosters that do this are "professional" and have multiple listings or ways to mitigate it. One is tools that auto-update multiple platforms to keep them in-sync, leaving only small "timing" windows where there could be a double booking. Another is to simply phone the renter and offer another place (if they have multiples right next to eachother which is often the case), or give some sort of discount, etc. Essentially, it's a "solved" problem at this point and is on the level of being a commodity.
- b3lvedere 2y agoAs long as the customer is just 'very angry', but will continue to put money in the company, the company will gladly accept your money and will tell you it is 'very sorry'.
- infradig 2y ago2019
- Hnrobert42 2y agoYeah. I thought the article sounded familiar.
- phonon 2y agoJust indicted. https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/2-indicted-85-million-nationwide-airbnbvrbo-scam-allegedly-defrauded-1000s-victims-and https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/2-indicted-85-million-n...
- John23832 2y agoThis guy just screams scam: https://www.shraygoel.com/ https://www.shraygoel.com/
- petesergeant 2y agoActual quote from his website: "Dive into how I've integrated AI into my daily grind and how you can do the same"
- sumedh 2y ago"I offer you a distilled essence of my experiences"
- paulgb 2y ago> A series of unfortunate events that culminated in a global pandemic decimated my business virtually overnight. That’s one way to put it.
- achow 2y agoUpdate on Jan 2024 for this 2019 article.. https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xbbk/shray-goel-charged-airbnb-scam https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xbbk/shray-goel-charged-ai...
- koolba 2y agoFrom that updated article: > Goel would also de-list and re-list apartments so that no one would see his bad reviews and use some of his fake accounts to write glowing, positive reviews for his other fake accounts. The indictment lists 19 separate apartments where Goel carried out the alleged scheme, including ones in Austin, Nashville, Malibu, Denver, and Los Angeles. Does AirBnb do zero validation of listed properties? I vaguely remember when they first started they would come out to the property to take pictures (maybe Brian himself?). I wouldn't expect that level of high touch onboarding, but at least very least some kind of "Does this property exist?" and basic address validation.
- imp0cat 2y agoDoes AirBnb do zero validation of listed properties? I highly suspect that they just don't care.
- zug_zug 2y agoBut what’s the systematic fix here? Obviously Airbnb could vet better (now that it’s a PR nightmare) Relying on tech companies with negligible support and 0 transparency to self-police is reliably failing. Perhaps it’s time courts or some other system adapts to these modern problems
- 4ndrewl 2y agoDon't have a reciprocal rating system.
- doix 2y agoMost places have some legislation that applies to short term lets. Those same rules should apply to people that try to run their Airbnbs like a business. Leave the folks that are renting out a spare room alone and go after the people with 5+ properties they've never stepped foot in. I don't know how cities get the resources to try and enforce these laws. I guess if the fines are high enough, it could even be profitable but that probably comes with it's own issues.
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- dzonga 2y agowhich is why I love hotels. if hotels are too costly, would rather opt for booking.com since it allows you to pay on the spot and has easy cancellation than airbnb
- Staple_Diet 2y agoAmen, glad to have never used AirBnB. I also often use booking.com, but you should know they regularly f over smaller businesses that use them to host their rooms. I generally stick to big chains when using their platform, or use it as 'hotel google' before following up and negotiating a price directly with a smaller hotel. Much like Uber squeezes small business (menu items often 20-30% higher on Uber menu vs real menu) booking.com exploits the smaller accommodation providers so they appreciate direct bookings.
- carlosjobim 2y agoHow does booking exploit smaller businesses? That wasn't my experience at all.
- Staple_Diet 2y agoLast year they had 3-6 month delays on passing on booking fees to their partners due to 'technical difficulties'. While big chains were made whole as priority, many smaller operators risked bankruptcy or were put out of business. As I said I like using them for most of my travel, I just choose to book directly when using a smaller provider vs Hilton etc to lower the small operators overheads, much like I go and pickup my takeaway order to avoid using UberEats. https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2023/nov/10/booking-com-travel-website-compensation-hotels-delayed-payments https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2023/nov/10/booking-com-t...
- carlosjobim 2y agoThat's insane! With the low margins and seasonality in the hospitality business, delayed booking income can threaten bankruptcy to a small business. I also try to always give preference to small hotels by booking them directly, but most of them are foolish and give better rates and terms through booking, and hard headed about it. Doing the opposite of what they should do from a business sense.
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- djoldman 2y agohttps://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/2-indicted-85-million-nationwide-airbnbvrbo-scam-allegedly-defrauded-1000s-victims-and https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/2-indicted-85-million-n...
- r0ckarong 2y agoThe last time I used Airbnb was in 2018 on a holiday trip. A hanging cupboard fell off the wall from poorly installed wall anchors and nearly killed my wife and the host accused us of having ripped it off intentionally. Shortly after that the prices started to rise even more and in all cases I checked, a hotel was cheaper by a lot. Haven't looked back.
- porksoda 2y agoI live permanently in Airbnbs for 5+years now and have none of these... Oh wait the sink fell right out of the counter while I was washing dishes in my last flat in Buenos Aires, week before last. Well, I bought some glue and I glued it back in. I didn't have to do that, if I have real problems Airbnb has always refunded me, and hosts have always been great... But i didn't mind. Was your trip in USA? I get a weird kind of feeling that Airbnb is awful in the states... But I'm not sure that's an Airbnb problem specifically. I feel like in the states it's a business, where the rest of the world is more easy going?
- doix 2y agoYeah, I've been in Airbnbs for the last 3ish years all over Africa and Asia and mostly haven't had any issues. Nothing like described in the article, but if a host tries anything even remotely fishy I just go straight to Airbnb and let them sort it out. In my limited experience, Airbnb has always been on my side as a guest rather than on the hosts side. In all my travels, I've not seen hotels be even remotely competitive in price compared to an Airbnb, at least when staying for a month. Usually for the cost of a run-down hotel room I could have a great 1 bedroom apartment with a kitchen and washing machine.
- pizza234 2y ago> Was your trip in USA? I get a weird kind of feeling that Airbnb is awful in the states... I have the same impression. I've been traveling extensively across Europe and never had (significant) problems. I wonder what makes Airbnb's service in USA so unreliable.
- surfingdino 2y agoThe apartment above mine is listed on AirBnB. Guests are often causing nuisance and the rest of the residents decided to intervene after we had to call the police. Turns out, the complaints of that sort are outsourced to the company who doesn't have access to the AirBnB database and are trained to make you go away. They requested photos of the inside of the property and other proof that it is listed on AirBnB. We couldn't provide them so AirBnB "support" closed the case.
- pydanny 2y agoWe had a similar thing with a malignant AirBnB host next to our living place. Plus issues with water leaks on their side. The host company and AirBnB made it clear their business was rentals, not taking care of the property or community on which they profit. I used to be happy with AirBnB as an option when I travel, now it is my last resort if I can't find a hotel room.
- surfingdino 2y agoI haven't used them since 2012. It's unlikely I will use them again.
- imp0cat 2y agoI wish there were more people like that.
- gryn 2y agoI don't understand why either you or the parent comment had to deal with AirBnB in any way to begin with. Shouldn't your talk be with the owner of the property ? or more likely the shared building property manager (syndic is the word I'm looking for an english equivalent for, I don't know if this is the right one here, maybe HOA is the right one ?) + a complaint the local authority if need be ? I'm not from the US but surely it's not that different around the world ?
- chucksta 2y ago
- jonathanlydall 2y agoMy father runs a few guest suites from his house here in South Africa. 5 or so years ago I happened to be at his house when he had a slightly interesting case where a couple arrived unexpectedly claiming to have made a booking, but there was no corresponding booking on my father's profile. When I looked closer at the booking on the app on their phone, it turns out they had made the booking for a listing which was a copy of my father's listing. When we all realized what had happened, they phoned AirBnB and had them reverse the fraudulent booking, fortunately one of the rooms was available and they paid my father directly through an immediate electronic funds transfer payment. It's possible that the couple that was trying to scam my father, but based on their behaviour, it seemed highly unlikely to me. My best guess is that this fraud works against less savvy hosts who assume that there "must be an error with AirBnB" or when bookings are adequately in advance that the fraudulent listings receive the money before everyone realizes it's a fraudulent copy. Most of his bookings these days come from repeat customers or Booking.com.
- outcoldman 2y agoI have seen this so many times in Mexico on AirBnb. Specifically in Puerto Escondido. Somebody would just copy photos and post in slight distance from original location.
- smusamashah 2y agoNow with image generators its even easier to fake the listings and show any kind of unique room and setting in photos. Moving forward, how will we verify that the photos are real for the real life use cases like this?
- downut 2y agoI had this precise MO happen to me in Romania, only I got a "cancellation" message at about midnight the evening before. Plumbing issues. "We have another property that is much better instead." I am not a trusting soul, especially at midnight, so I just said fuck you Rus, ima get on the line to AirBnB. And amazingly they made us whole, and after a night of interaction between an AirBnB droid, and apparently a couple of unconnected hosts in Bucharest, by 9AM I had another rental, not too bad in fact. This was 2018, does AirBnB still do that? Also non-US countries' cellular networks for the win, a lot of communication happened the next day while I was on a bus heading toward Bucharest. Almost as good as Mexico in fact. Which is where I'm going next month. However I'm suspicious these days so my next AirBnB I have already stayed with that host before. Anyway as I was messaging with the AirBnB repair droid all night, the Rus kept coming back and I decided to have some fun, and boy howdy did he get mad. I trolled him intelligently, good and hard, apparently they don't get much pushback. I got to thinking though, maybe not a good idea to troll the scammer hard as I'm about to inject into a city I don't know that well? Spicy! Sadly AirBnB edited that message thread quite savagely, very annoying when I went back to enjoy the exchange later on. I just remembered that I had the last minute cancel thing happen to me in Chicago too! Only the host didn't do the divert to the "better" apartment bit, and it was 2 days before, so I was able to find another rental.
- op00to 2y agoWouldn’t it have been easier to just stay in a reputable hotel?
- downut 2y agoWith a kitchen and a washer/dryer? I have a stayed in hundreds, maybe into thousands of reputable hotels in many countries over 40 years. It is such a drag when this tired line comes out. 98% of our AirBnB stays have been fantastic, and I have cooked out of many food markets in lots of interesting places. Including Romania. The host interactions, often through side channels, have been quite cool in close to a dozen cases: theatre tickets gratis in Paris, local pointers that are truly local in some places. But all good things must come to pass, and it seems likely that the enshittification process has terminally afflicted AirBnB. In the future probably we'll be joining the rest of you in our sterile "reputable hotel" rooms, eating out of the adjacent dreary (but sterile!) industrialized corporate food processors (aka "restaurants"), all of which might as well be located in the same interstellar spaceship, no matter where the nominal physical location is claimed to be. A dreary future.
- op00to 2y agoI have no idea why anyone would stay at an Airbnb. The lack of regulation alone makes it a no-go for me. There’s so much that can go wrong, and you have literally no recourse.
- imp0cat 2y agoYeah, but it's lot cheaper. I see a pattern where some of my friends can get a lot out of the combination of cheap plane tickets and Airbnb. The only downside is that you never know where you're going in advance, because your're just sifting through the cheapest options.
- op00to 2y agoIt's cheaper until you meet with an unscrupulous (or even just lazy) landlord and you need to scramble for last minute lodgings. Have this happen once in an expensive city, and it erases a lifetime of savings from cheaper Airbnbs. It's been my experience that Airbnbs are not really cheaper post-COVID compared to hotels.
- fragmede 2y agoIt's a home with home amenities like an actual kitchen, a washer dryer, bedrooms. Getting a couple of hotel rooms for a bunch of friends or coworkers or a family is less cohesive so some actually prefer an AirBnB despite the downsides. Hotels with proper suites are competitive, but, say, for a small scrappy startup visiting town for a conference where they're sharing a car and meals and need to coordinate gear, an AirBnB is simply better.
- epiccoleman 2y agoI recently stayed in an AirBnB with a group of friends - we traveled to see a band we like play two consecutive nights at a venue in a city where none of us lived. We all had our own bedrooms, and having the house to ourselves meant we could do stuff we couldn't have done in a hotel. Some of us brought instruments and had some jam sessions in the basement. We stayed up late after the shows listening to music, drinking and playing cards and laughing loudly at stupid jokes. When people got tired they could just go to their room and go to bed. We all cooked breakfast together in the morning. It was a wildly fun time and it would not have been possible if we'd all just gotten hotel rooms.
- tristor 2y agoI used to use AirBnB extensively when I was a digital nomad. After the pandemic I took my wife (I was newly married post-pandemic) and my stepdaughter on their first international trip and had booked presumably nice AirBnBs to stay at. Every single AirBnB was somehow not matching its description, had problems, and was owned or managed by a bland company where we had no interaction with our “hosts”. We cancelled the rest of the reservations and switched to 5-star hotels for the rest of trip. Since then we only stay in nice hotels for these trips, and I can often do so for less money than an AirBnB would cost but with clear service and quality guarantees. Even 5-star hotels are slipping in quality these days, but are more worth the money than overpriced AirBnBs that don’t match their description or promise.
- erdemo 2y agoI had the same similar situation with Airbnb at 2016, the host sent a council letter photo, it says "the house has to be evacuated etc." which is fake. He intentionally waited the last day to notify me while I rented the place one month. I was about to move another country and this happened at the last day. It was a devastating moment, I didn't accept scammer alternative place which is 5 times worse than listing. I rented a different place and did a report to Airbnb. Airbnb contacted with me almost instantly after the report and they were used to this situation for sure. They gave me 200$ coupon as an apologise as I remember and I closed the case.
- dagurp 2y agoSomewhat related video of Joe Lycett confronting an AirBnB scammer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LhbOKQnhBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LhbOKQnhBU
- Shadowmist 2y agoTalk about missing the forest for the trees.
- nojvek 2y agoYou get what you pay for. AirBnb isn’t cheap. Rando fees, poor support, 100 ways to lose your money to Scams. AirBnB stock is doing well, that means people are buying what they have to sell. Even if people occasionally get shit. Demand meets Supply. Law of nature.