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Seeing an M series chip launch first in an iPad must be result of some mad supply chain and manufacturing related hangovers from COVID. If the iPad had better

Seeing an M series chip launch first in an iPad must be result of some mad supply chain and manufacturing related hangovers from COVID. If the iPad had better software and could be considered a first class productivity machine then it would be less surprising but the one thing no one says about the iPads is “I wish this chip were faster”

asddubs 2y ago
Well, it also affects the battery life, so it's not entirely wasted on the ipad
margalabargala 2y ago
Maybe they're clocking it way down. Same performance, double the battery life.
- cjauvin 2y ago
  I very rarely wish the battery of my iPad Pro 2018 would last longer, as it's already so good, even considering the age factor.
  - 0x457 2y ago
    Yeah, I don't think about charging my iPad throughout the day, and I constantly use it. Maybe it's in the low 20s late at night, but it never bothered me.
Zigurd 2y ago
My guess is that the market size fit current yields.
- a_vanderbilt 2y ago
  I think this is the most likely explanation. Lower volume for the given product matches supply better, and since it's clocked down and has a lower target for GPU cores it has better yields.
- hajile 2y ago
  They already released all their macbooks and latest iphone on N3B which is the worst-yielding 3nm from TSMC. I doubt yields are the issue here. It's suspected that the fast release for M4 is so TSMC can move away from the horrible-yielding N3B to N3E. Unfortunately, N3E is less dense. Paired with a couple more little cores, an increase in little core size, 2x larger NPU, etc, I'd guess that while M3 seems to be around 145mm2, this one is going to be quite a bit larger (160mm2?) with the size hopefully being offset by decreased wafer costs.
DanHulton 2y ago
I'm wondering if it's because they're hitting the limits of the architecture, and it sounds way better to compare M4 vs M2 as opposed to vs M3, which they'd have to do if it launched in a Macbook Pro.
- mason55 2y ago
  Eh, they compared the M3 to the M1 when they launched it. People grumbled and then went on with their lives. I don't think they'd use that as a reason for making actual product decisions.
MuffinFlavored 2y ago
To me it just feels like a soft launch. You probably have people (like myself) trying to keep up with the latest MacBook Air who get fatigued having to get a new laptop every year (I just upgraded to the M3 not too long ago, from the M2, and before that... the M1... is there any reason to? Not really...), so now they are trying to entice people who don't have iPads yet / who are waiting for a reason to do an iPad upgrade. For $1,300 configured with the keyboard, I have no clue what I'd do with this device. They very deliberately are keeping iPadOS + MacOS separate.
- low_common 2y ago
  You get a new laptop every year?
  - Teever 2y ago
    If you replace your laptop every year or two and sell the old one online you can keep on the latest technology for only a slight premium.
  - MuffinFlavored 2y ago
    I'm sort of "incentivized" to by Apple because as soon as they release a new one, the current device you have will be at "peak trade in value" and deteriorate over time. It's a negligible amount of money. It's like, brand new $999, trade in for like $450. Once a year... $550 remainder/12 months is $45.75/mo to have the latest and greatest laptop.
    - fwip 2y ago
      How much is a 2-year old laptop worth? Because if you buy a new laptop every two years and don't even sell the old one, you're only spending $500 a year, which is less than you are now.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - faeriechangling 2y ago
alexpc201 2y ago
To offer something better to those who have an iPad Pro M2 and a more powerful environment to run heavier games.
andrewmunsell 2y ago
My current assumption is that this has to do with whatever "AI" Apple is planning to launch at WWDC. If they launched a new iPad with an M3 that wasn't able to sufficiently run on-device LLMs or whatever new models they are going to announce in a month, it would be a bad move. The iPhones in the fall will certainly run some new chip capable of on-device models, but the iPads (being announced in the Spring just before WWDC) are slightly inconveniently timed since they have to announce the hardware before the software.
- owenpalmer 2y ago
  interesting theory, we'll see what happens!
eitally 2y ago
My guess is that the M4 and M3 are functionally almost identical so there's no real reason for them to restrict the iPad M4 launch until they get the chip into the MacBook / Air.
mort96 2y ago
To be honest, I wish my iPad's chip was slower! I can't do anything other than watch videos and use drawing programs on an iPad, why does it need a big expensive power hungry and environmentally impactful CPU when one 1/10 the speed would do? If I could actually do something with an iPad there would be a different discussion, but the operating system is so incredibly gimped that the most demanding task it's really suited for is .. decoding video.
- Shank 2y ago
  > Why does it need a big expensive power hungry and environmentally impactful CPU when one 1/10 the speed would do? Well, it's not. Every process shrink improves power efficiency. For watching videos, you're sipping power on the M4. For drawing...well if you want low latency while drawing, which generally speaking, people do, you...want the processor and display to ramp up to compensate and carry strokes as fast as possible? Obviously if your main concern is the environment, you shouldn't upgrade and you should hold onto your existing model(s) until they die.
  - mort96 2y ago
    From what I can tell, the 2020 iPad has perfectly fine latency while drawing, and Apple hasn't been advertising lower latencies for each generation; I think they pretty much got the latency thing nailed down. Surely you could make something with the peak performance of an A12Z use less power on average than an M4? As for the environmental impact, whether I buy or don't buy this iPad (I won't, don't worry, my 2020 one still works), millions of people will. I don't mind people buying powerful machines when the software can make use of the performance, but for iPad OS..?
    - Kon-Peki 2y ago
      The M4 is built on the newest, best, most expensive process node (right?). They've got to amortize out those costs, and then they could work on something cheaper and less powerful. I agree that they probably won't, and that's a shame. But still, the M4 is most likely one of the best options for the best use of this new process node.
drexlspivey 2y ago
Meanwhile the mac mini is still on M2
- bombcar 2y ago
  So is the studio.
themagician 2y ago
Welcome to being old! Watch a 20-year old creative work on an iPad and you will quickly change your mind. Watch someone who has, "never really used a desktop, [I] just use an iPad" work in Procreate or LumaFusion. The iPad has amazing software. Better, in many ways, than desktop alternatives if you know how to use it. There are some things they can't do, and the workflow can be less flexible or full featured in some cases, but the speed at which some people (not me) can work on an iPad is mindblowing. I use a "pro" app on an iPad and I find myself looking around for how to do something and end up having to Google it half the time. When I watch someone who really knows how to use an iPad use the same app they know exactly what gesture to do or where to long tap. I'm like, "How did you know that clicking on that part of the timeline would trigger that selection," and they just look back at you like, "What do you mean? How else would you do it?" There is a bizarre and almost undocumented design langauge of iPadOS that some people simply seem to know. It often pops up in those little "tap-torials" when a new feature roles out that I either ignore or forget… but other people internalize them.
- quasarj 2y ago
  They can have my keyboard when they pry it from my cold dead hands! And my mouse, for that matter.
  - themagician 2y ago
    Oh, I'm with you. But the funny thing is, they won't even want it. I have two iPads and two pencils—that way each iPad is never without a penicl—and yet I rarely use the pencil. I just don't think about it. But then when I do, I'm like, "Why don't I use this more often? It's fantastic." I have tried and tried to adapt and I can not. I need a mouse, keyboard, seperate numpad, and two 5K Displays to mostly arrive at the same output that someone can do with a single 11" or 13" screen and a bunch of differnt spaces that can be flicked through. I desperatedly wanted to make the iPad my primary machine and I could not do it. But, honestly, I think it has more to do with me than the software. I've become old and stubborn. I want to do things my way.
    - 2y ago
robsh 2y ago
I have the faintest of hope that WWDC will reveal a new hybrid Mac/iPad OS. If it ever happens I won’t hesitate to buy an iPad Pro.

asddubs 2y ago

Well, it also affects the battery life, so it's not entirely wasted on the ipad

margalabargala 2y ago

Maybe they're clocking it way down. Same performance, double the battery life.

cjauvin 2y ago
I very rarely wish the battery of my iPad Pro 2018 would last longer, as it's already so good, even considering the age factor.
- 0x457 2y ago
  Yeah, I don't think about charging my iPad throughout the day, and I constantly use it. Maybe it's in the low 20s late at night, but it never bothered me.

Zigurd 2y ago

My guess is that the market size fit current yields.

a_vanderbilt 2y ago
I think this is the most likely explanation. Lower volume for the given product matches supply better, and since it's clocked down and has a lower target for GPU cores it has better yields.
hajile 2y ago
They already released all their macbooks and latest iphone on N3B which is the worst-yielding 3nm from TSMC. I doubt yields are the issue here. It's suspected that the fast release for M4 is so TSMC can move away from the horrible-yielding N3B to N3E. Unfortunately, N3E is less dense. Paired with a couple more little cores, an increase in little core size, 2x larger NPU, etc, I'd guess that while M3 seems to be around 145mm2, this one is going to be quite a bit larger (160mm2?) with the size hopefully being offset by decreased wafer costs.

DanHulton 2y ago

I'm wondering if it's because they're hitting the limits of the architecture, and it sounds way better to compare M4 vs M2 as opposed to vs M3, which they'd have to do if it launched in a Macbook Pro.

mason55 2y ago
Eh, they compared the M3 to the M1 when they launched it. People grumbled and then went on with their lives. I don't think they'd use that as a reason for making actual product decisions.

MuffinFlavored 2y ago

To me it just feels like a soft launch. You probably have people (like myself) trying to keep up with the latest MacBook Air who get fatigued having to get a new laptop every year (I just upgraded to the M3 not too long ago, from the M2, and before that... the M1... is there any reason to? Not really...), so now they are trying to entice people who don't have iPads yet / who are waiting for a reason to do an iPad upgrade. For $1,300 configured with the keyboard, I have no clue what I'd do with this device. They very deliberately are keeping iPadOS + MacOS separate.

low_common 2y ago
You get a new laptop every year?
- Teever 2y ago
  If you replace your laptop every year or two and sell the old one online you can keep on the latest technology for only a slight premium.
- MuffinFlavored 2y ago
  I'm sort of "incentivized" to by Apple because as soon as they release a new one, the current device you have will be at "peak trade in value" and deteriorate over time. It's a negligible amount of money. It's like, brand new $999, trade in for like $450. Once a year... $550 remainder/12 months is $45.75/mo to have the latest and greatest laptop.
  - fwip 2y ago
    How much is a 2-year old laptop worth? Because if you buy a new laptop every two years and don't even sell the old one, you're only spending $500 a year, which is less than you are now.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - faeriechangling 2y ago

alexpc201 2y ago

To offer something better to those who have an iPad Pro M2 and a more powerful environment to run heavier games.

andrewmunsell 2y ago

My current assumption is that this has to do with whatever "AI" Apple is planning to launch at WWDC. If they launched a new iPad with an M3 that wasn't able to sufficiently run on-device LLMs or whatever new models they are going to announce in a month, it would be a bad move. The iPhones in the fall will certainly run some new chip capable of on-device models, but the iPads (being announced in the Spring just before WWDC) are slightly inconveniently timed since they have to announce the hardware before the software.

owenpalmer 2y ago
interesting theory, we'll see what happens!

eitally 2y ago

My guess is that the M4 and M3 are functionally almost identical so there's no real reason for them to restrict the iPad M4 launch until they get the chip into the MacBook / Air.

mort96 2y ago

To be honest, I wish my iPad's chip was slower! I can't do anything other than watch videos and use drawing programs on an iPad, why does it need a big expensive power hungry and environmentally impactful CPU when one 1/10 the speed would do? If I could actually do something with an iPad there would be a different discussion, but the operating system is so incredibly gimped that the most demanding task it's really suited for is .. decoding video.

Shank 2y ago
> Why does it need a big expensive power hungry and environmentally impactful CPU when one 1/10 the speed would do? Well, it's not. Every process shrink improves power efficiency. For watching videos, you're sipping power on the M4. For drawing...well if you want low latency while drawing, which generally speaking, people do, you...want the processor and display to ramp up to compensate and carry strokes as fast as possible? Obviously if your main concern is the environment, you shouldn't upgrade and you should hold onto your existing model(s) until they die.
- mort96 2y ago
  From what I can tell, the 2020 iPad has perfectly fine latency while drawing, and Apple hasn't been advertising lower latencies for each generation; I think they pretty much got the latency thing nailed down. Surely you could make something with the peak performance of an A12Z use less power on average than an M4? As for the environmental impact, whether I buy or don't buy this iPad (I won't, don't worry, my 2020 one still works), millions of people will. I don't mind people buying powerful machines when the software can make use of the performance, but for iPad OS..?
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    The M4 is built on the newest, best, most expensive process node (right?). They've got to amortize out those costs, and then they could work on something cheaper and less powerful. I agree that they probably won't, and that's a shame. But still, the M4 is most likely one of the best options for the best use of this new process node.

drexlspivey 2y ago

Meanwhile the mac mini is still on M2

bombcar 2y ago
So is the studio.

themagician 2y ago

Welcome to being old! Watch a 20-year old creative work on an iPad and you will quickly change your mind. Watch someone who has, "never really used a desktop, [I] just use an iPad" work in Procreate or LumaFusion. The iPad has amazing software. Better, in many ways, than desktop alternatives if you know how to use it. There are some things they can't do, and the workflow can be less flexible or full featured in some cases, but the speed at which some people (not me) can work on an iPad is mindblowing. I use a "pro" app on an iPad and I find myself looking around for how to do something and end up having to Google it half the time. When I watch someone who really knows how to use an iPad use the same app they know exactly what gesture to do or where to long tap. I'm like, "How did you know that clicking on that part of the timeline would trigger that selection," and they just look back at you like, "What do you mean? How else would you do it?" There is a bizarre and almost undocumented design langauge of iPadOS that some people simply seem to know. It often pops up in those little "tap-torials" when a new feature roles out that I either ignore or forget… but other people internalize them.

quasarj 2y ago
They can have my keyboard when they pry it from my cold dead hands! And my mouse, for that matter.
- themagician 2y ago
  Oh, I'm with you. But the funny thing is, they won't even want it. I have two iPads and two pencils—that way each iPad is never without a penicl—and yet I rarely use the pencil. I just don't think about it. But then when I do, I'm like, "Why don't I use this more often? It's fantastic." I have tried and tried to adapt and I can not. I need a mouse, keyboard, seperate numpad, and two 5K Displays to mostly arrive at the same output that someone can do with a single 11" or 13" screen and a bunch of differnt spaces that can be flicked through. I desperatedly wanted to make the iPad my primary machine and I could not do it. But, honestly, I think it has more to do with me than the software. I've become old and stubborn. I want to do things my way.
  - 2y ago

robsh 2y ago

I have the faintest of hope that WWDC will reveal a new hybrid Mac/iPad OS. If it ever happens I won’t hesitate to buy an iPad Pro.