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To be honest - it actually seems like a risky Private Equity play as I bet the $65000 sticker price is due to the fact that Medicare is footing the bill. Medic

To be honest - it actually seems like a risky Private Equity play as I bet the $65000 sticker price is due to the fact that Medicare is footing the bill. Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life if the price point was such that they could out of pocket the purchase and there was decent quality/repairability/safety. There do seem to be a fair number that are approaching "geez I might as well just buy an over the counter version" (i.e. sub-$2000) instead of going through the paperwork hassle of getting a free Medicare "prescription" for one.

heyoni 2y ago
In my experience, the chairs and how they’re built aren’t what adds to the price tag; the fact that an insurance company is paying is what is. My daughter literally just got approved for a talking device that would otherwise cost us $4000. It’s a Samsung tablet with $300 software and an attached speaker and comes with some sort of repair agreement. I can buy and break 20 iPads for that price…and we did end up buying one with the software on its own. If you want to know who’s causing waste, look to the ones who stand to benefit from it.
- whynotkeithberg 2y ago
  For most people on here, they're more likely to believe that the disabled people are needy & expecting way to much rather than the companies behind it including insurance being greedy as hell.
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    What prompted you say this in the top voted comment chain where each ancestor comment says the exact opposite of said view?
- newsclues 2y ago
  It’s similar to defence procurement. If the customer is government with endless budget, inflate costs, and use regulatory capture to maintain the cash flow.
  - boredpeter 2y ago
    Not only that but also lobby the government to start more wars so there’s a need for their product. https://x.com/snmrrw/status/1717906441925751223 https://x.com/snmrrw/status/1717906441925751223
  - WanderPanda 2y ago
    Just that in this case the end-customer is a person that could shop around for what he/she needs. Such a competitive market would instantly vaporate the current, rent-seeking margins
  - underlipton 2y ago
    Regulatory capture is likely the most important component. People complain about government spending, but those close to progressive issues can tell you that it's just as likely, if not more likely, to be remarkably stingy when it wants to be. The issue isn't government, it's who's using government; access to capital on top of that government influence gets you a lot closer to that bottomless wallet.
    - beaeglebeachh 2y ago
      This is why I'm for total deregulation of healthcare. Government fucks it up so bad hamstringing access that some hack work with 15 minutes of YouTube training plus whatever pills drop out the dark web is often better than not being able to access it at all. Right now we basically end up going to Mexico if we can help it, where there's basically no real oversight or regulation to raise cost so long as the doc/pharmacy pays off the cartels.
      - newsclues 2y ago
        Regulations should be voluntary and exist in a market with options. I want a market where I can choose a highly regulated healthcare system or a system with no regulations and a system somewhere in between.
- gavry 2y ago
  Wow - just curious, what's the name of the talking device?
  - heyoni 2y ago
    https://www.prc-saltillo.com/ https://www.prc-saltillo.com/
- nullindividual 2y ago
  That tablet and software cost a large sum to be validated. Those CFRs get extremely expensive.
  - heyoni 2y ago
    You can buy the same exact app on the app store for $300.
- JJMcJ 2y ago
  I saw a catalog of mobility aids and they had self-pay electric wheelchairs for around $2 to $3 thousand, just as an example.
wolverine876 2y ago
> I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life What is that based on? Do you have experience or know anyone who does? A news article or research?
Spooky23 2y ago
The Medicare wheelchairs are lowest bidder affairs procured as commodities regionally. There’s no margin there. The crackdown on scooters was going after blatant and obvious fraud.
eru 2y ago
> I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life [...] Probably even a higher quality of life, because the manufacturer can make arbitrary changes to the unregulated scooter in response to market demands.
JTbane 2y ago
Is this why hearing aids are $4000 when they probably have $0.50 of components?
PontifexMinimus 2y ago
You can buy mobility scooters for under £2000. e.g. https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/fastest/ https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/fastest/ $65k is an obvious rip-off. > Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. It's a shame Medicare can't just give the users cash and allow them to choose their own wheelchair; both Medicare and the users would win.
- TechDebtDevin 2y ago
  [flagged]
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  Are you serious? Wheelchairs are not mobility scooters. I don't know much about them, but I can point out some obvious likely differences: 1)The chair has to be comfortable enough to be in almost constantly - for someone whose body may not be shaped the same as most other people's. It may need to be designed in a way that makes it easier for the user to get in and out of, unassisted. That means a substantial part of it is customized to each user, probably in consultation with medical professionals. It may need to carry medical devices/equipment. 2)The chair has to be navigable in indoor spaces with a fine degree of control, by someone who may have lower motor skills and range of motion than others. So it may need customizable response time, input smoothing, and acceleration. 3)The chair cannot, under any circumstances, make an un-commanded motion - which could easily kill the occupant (ie going into traffic, or down a steep hill, or off into water.) That has implications for the physical controls, the electronic controls, and mechanical drives (I'm guessing many chairs have electrical locking, and can use the motors for braking.) Similarly, the chair has to be very reliable, or that could kill the occupant (say, a fire or other emergency where they are) or otherwise be a major inconvenience. If you're unable to move much from your chair and, say, your cell phone is in another room - you're varying levels of screwed. 4)It has to be designed such that fire would be a very low risk. Are they probably more expensive than they need to be? Yeah. But I'm sure it's nowhere near an order of magnitude, and your comment is pretty ignorant.

heyoni 2y ago

In my experience, the chairs and how they’re built aren’t what adds to the price tag; the fact that an insurance company is paying is what is. My daughter literally just got approved for a talking device that would otherwise cost us $4000. It’s a Samsung tablet with $300 software and an attached speaker and comes with some sort of repair agreement. I can buy and break 20 iPads for that price…and we did end up buying one with the software on its own. If you want to know who’s causing waste, look to the ones who stand to benefit from it.

whynotkeithberg 2y ago
For most people on here, they're more likely to believe that the disabled people are needy & expecting way to much rather than the companies behind it including insurance being greedy as hell.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  What prompted you say this in the top voted comment chain where each ancestor comment says the exact opposite of said view?
newsclues 2y ago
It’s similar to defence procurement. If the customer is government with endless budget, inflate costs, and use regulatory capture to maintain the cash flow.
- boredpeter 2y ago
  Not only that but also lobby the government to start more wars so there’s a need for their product. https://x.com/snmrrw/status/1717906441925751223 https://x.com/snmrrw/status/1717906441925751223
- WanderPanda 2y ago
  Just that in this case the end-customer is a person that could shop around for what he/she needs. Such a competitive market would instantly vaporate the current, rent-seeking margins
- underlipton 2y ago
  Regulatory capture is likely the most important component. People complain about government spending, but those close to progressive issues can tell you that it's just as likely, if not more likely, to be remarkably stingy when it wants to be. The issue isn't government, it's who's using government; access to capital on top of that government influence gets you a lot closer to that bottomless wallet.
  - beaeglebeachh 2y ago
    This is why I'm for total deregulation of healthcare. Government fucks it up so bad hamstringing access that some hack work with 15 minutes of YouTube training plus whatever pills drop out the dark web is often better than not being able to access it at all. Right now we basically end up going to Mexico if we can help it, where there's basically no real oversight or regulation to raise cost so long as the doc/pharmacy pays off the cartels.
    - newsclues 2y ago
      Regulations should be voluntary and exist in a market with options. I want a market where I can choose a highly regulated healthcare system or a system with no regulations and a system somewhere in between.
gavry 2y ago
Wow - just curious, what's the name of the talking device?
- heyoni 2y ago
  https://www.prc-saltillo.com/ https://www.prc-saltillo.com/
nullindividual 2y ago
That tablet and software cost a large sum to be validated. Those CFRs get extremely expensive.
- heyoni 2y ago
  You can buy the same exact app on the app store for $300.
JJMcJ 2y ago
I saw a catalog of mobility aids and they had self-pay electric wheelchairs for around $2 to $3 thousand, just as an example.

wolverine876 2y ago

> I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life What is that based on? Do you have experience or know anyone who does? A news article or research?

Spooky23 2y ago

The Medicare wheelchairs are lowest bidder affairs procured as commodities regionally. There’s no margin there. The crackdown on scooters was going after blatant and obvious fraud.

eru 2y ago

> I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life [...] Probably even a higher quality of life, because the manufacturer can make arbitrary changes to the unregulated scooter in response to market demands.

JTbane 2y ago

Is this why hearing aids are $4000 when they probably have $0.50 of components?

PontifexMinimus 2y ago

You can buy mobility scooters for under £2000. e.g. https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/fastest/ https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/fastest/ $65k is an obvious rip-off. > Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. It's a shame Medicare can't just give the users cash and allow them to choose their own wheelchair; both Medicare and the users would win.

TechDebtDevin 2y ago
[flagged]
KennyBlanken 2y ago
Are you serious? Wheelchairs are not mobility scooters. I don't know much about them, but I can point out some obvious likely differences: 1)The chair has to be comfortable enough to be in almost constantly - for someone whose body may not be shaped the same as most other people's. It may need to be designed in a way that makes it easier for the user to get in and out of, unassisted. That means a substantial part of it is customized to each user, probably in consultation with medical professionals. It may need to carry medical devices/equipment. 2)The chair has to be navigable in indoor spaces with a fine degree of control, by someone who may have lower motor skills and range of motion than others. So it may need customizable response time, input smoothing, and acceleration. 3)The chair cannot, under any circumstances, make an un-commanded motion - which could easily kill the occupant (ie going into traffic, or down a steep hill, or off into water.) That has implications for the physical controls, the electronic controls, and mechanical drives (I'm guessing many chairs have electrical locking, and can use the motors for braking.) Similarly, the chair has to be very reliable, or that could kill the occupant (say, a fire or other emergency where they are) or otherwise be a major inconvenience. If you're unable to move much from your chair and, say, your cell phone is in another room - you're varying levels of screwed. 4)It has to be designed such that fire would be a very low risk. Are they probably more expensive than they need to be? Yeah. But I'm sure it's nowhere near an order of magnitude, and your comment is pretty ignorant.