7 ms·
reminds me of the bicycle helmet stuff. There was a ted talk that said bicycle helmet laws would kill more people than save. The reasoning was preventing peop
by m463 3y ago
reminds me of the bicycle helmet stuff.
There was a ted talk that said bicycle helmet laws would kill more people than save.
The reasoning was preventing people from riding would also prevent increased fitness, and more lives were lost from that than saved from accidents.
EDIT: I think this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o-TASvIxY
- AbbeSomething 3y agoThis sounds ridiculous until you go to Amsterdam see that few wear helmets there. And everyone is cycling. They might be more inclined to cycle because they don’t need to wear a helmet. After years of cycling with helmet you get so used to it and it doesn’t bother you. But how many skip the bike because they never got used to wearing a helmet?
- kanbara 3y agomore like because it’s safe and there are penalties for injuring pedestrians and cyclists, and because the infrastructure is great. not riding a bike because a helmet is ??uncomfortable?? is ridiculous and probably self-selecting
- Gigachad 3y agoIs it that ridiculous? Big tech tracking shows that basically any inconvenience at all causes people to drop off. The page taking half a second longer to load and now you’ve lost a few sales. There isn’t going to be anyone consciously thinking “I’m not gonna ride because I have to wear a helmet” but instead “eh I can’t be bothered riding” without digging too much in to why.
- eimrine 3y ago[flagged]
- lambdaphagy 3y agoI'm a pretty proficient cyclist (lifetime mileage in the tens of thousands) but there have still been a handful of incidents where I've been very grateful to have had a helmet. It might be the case that helmets are a net negative for casual riders. But whenever I've done a spontaneous unplanned dismount at 20mph I didn't find that knowing how to fall helped me much.
- dangmumwhore 3y ago[flagged]
- eimrine 3y ago> But whenever I've done a spontaneous unplanned dismount at 20mph I didn't find that knowing how to fall helped me much. What was the circumstances (type of road and type of bike)? Have you touched the ground with any other parts of body except of palms, elbows and knees? If yes then consider to keep learning how to fall because your falling skill is not that proficient. If not then the helmet was not that useful.
- lambdaphagy 3y agoI've done judo for years, but I don't think knowing how to fall helps much when you get hit by a car.
- com2kid 3y ago> Me and my bicyclist friends have never injured a head while falling down from bike Back when I did bike, I'd fall off and hit my (helmeted) head once a year or so. I was always thankful for having a helmet. Granted it was typically doing something stupid (jumping a curb or such), but still, I was thankful for having a helmet!
- dangmumwhore 3y ago[flagged]
- imtringued 3y agoBicycle helmets are big. You can't just put them away in your bag when you're done with them. So you will have to carry the helmet alongside your bags etc.
- EasyMark 3y agoSince Amsterdam is a "peak biking" city, I wouldn't trust the cited study to even apply there and would think that an independent study would be needed since it would be likely an outlier.
- AlecSchueler 3y agoWhat about other Dutch cities like Zwolle, the Hague, Utrecht, Nijmegen, Emmen, Middleburg etc etc etc?
- ideamotor 3y agoI biked through Amsterdam as a commuter along with everyone else for a week, and it just blew me away. Everyone was absolutely predictable and part of the “school of fish”. No hesitation or ill-conceived politeness. It was only a week but it was so refreshing. I think about this experience daily when driving because I think of how much time would be saved if people just knew absolutely when to take their turn and took it; instead of processing each decision and deciding based on their current mood. People knew the damn rules and norms. So, I think it’s a function of having a critical mass, being necessary, and being embedded already as a norm. I don’t believe a city could make riding without a helmet legal and expect any sort of increase in safety …
- bluejekyll 3y agoThis doesn’t work when driving primarily because cars are generally moving a lot fast and are less maneuverable that bikes in avoiding conflict.
- jeffbee 3y agoAnd because drivers can't see or hear anything.
- bigfudge 3y agoAnd because they are physically more removed from the consequences of being a dick.
- stevesimmons 3y agoThree things are different in the Netherlands: 1. Almost everyone cycles. So all drivers are themselves cyclists. So they treat other cyclists with consideration. 2. The road/cycle infrastructure is set up to separate cars and bikes wherever possible. And where they share routes, cars are often explicitly second class users ("auto te gast" - cars, you're guests). 3. In any collision between a car and a bike, the driver will almost always be the one found at fault.
- late2part 3y ago
- snemvalts 3y agoIn Amsterdam they are commuting, and in a fantastic infrastructure where cars get red lights when bicycles approach on an intersecting cycleway. That's probably the main reason for safety and why they ride so much.
- vasco 3y agoThere's very few places where the light changes automatically for bikes in Amsterdam - all that I can remember now, don't. The large majority of lights do respond to input from pressing the cross button (also pressable by bycicles), but it's not automated. They do use "change on approach" lights outside of the cities way more, but in cities it's usually only for trams and buses.
- gjjydfhgd 3y agoHelmets are also overrated. I've fallen many times and not once I've hit my head. They are probably useful in high speed impacts, but then you are fucked anyways. Gloves are much more useful on a daily basis. Saved my hand many times.
- r_c_a_d_t_s 3y agoCounter point: in the last 40 years I have come off my bike only about 10 times and on 2 of those my helmet was so badly damaged that I think without it my head would have been seriously hurt. Those were both low-speed accidents, one was being hit from behind by a car and the other was hitting a nasty pothole. I've also seen a friend have a high-speed impact: he was airlifted to hospital, survived and has mostly recovered. Looking at the state of his helmet I have no doubt that he would have died at the scene without it.
- chupasaurus 3y agoA hit to hands or head has a different lethality.
- SwiftyBug 3y agoI know I'll never be a motorcyclist because I don't want to ruin my hair with the helmet. People with curly hair will know what I'm talking about.
- Broken_Hippo 3y agoBiking in Amsterdam is leagues safer then biking in most places in the US, though. The risks are different. Helmets aren't as important if most of your crashes are going to be with another low-speed, mostly-soft bodied cyclist. Traffic and pedestrians are pretty separated and you have your own lanes to cycle in. I'm also pretty sure that a lot of biking is convenient: The local grocery store is just a short bike ride but it'd take 15 minutes by car. Most biking in the US is biking shared with cars. You probably won't have a bike lane. Most likely, you aren't commuting or going to the grocery store - the grocery store might take 15 minutes of driving but 30 minutes of biking - if you can even go the most direct route legally. Longer biking sessions generally means more risk. I'll take the helmet in places that I must defend myself against automobiles on an unsafe path.
- jajko 3y agoYes this is annoying in all these same debates which point to Netherland / Denmark - the infrastructure elsewhere is just not there. Lanes shared with cars (or just taking away from car lane so no normal cars fits in anymore) isn't a solution, just adding friction danger zone. Or dedicated bicycle lanes wide enough for a single row of cyclists, if even that. Also look at those 'old' basic bikes they use there, you don't need more on those flatlands and everybody is fine with 20-25kmh. Add tech bros or generally young folks with fast ebikes and escooters going 50kmh and things change.
- AlecSchueler 3y ago> Yes this is annoying in all these same debates which point to Netherland / Denmark - the infrastructure elsewhere is just not there That's why we point to them. The infrastructure didn't exist in Holland either, until they choose to build it.
- jajko 3y agoYes but there was room for it, you noticed the wide streets? Most European city centers don't have that extra room for 1 dedicated bike path on each side, at least not cities I've lived in. That's cca 4m each side requirement, you would have to tear down whole rows of 150-500 year old buildings which are often protected. Even Amsterdam has streets which have 0 room, but generally city center is blocked/too expensive to most car traffic to even enter so they manage. If it would be a easy problem to solve, it would be done or at least almost done at this point. And something tells me it requires certain type of population where respect to others is way above average, that's not granted.
- smileysteve 3y agoThere's real data out there that while a helmet has better survival rates than not; but cars give more room to bicycles without helmets, so the incident rate is lower.
- Scoundreller 3y agoAppearing like a woman buys you even more space than riding without a helmet https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/04/01/safest-bicycle-helmet-has-built-in-wig/ https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/04/01/safest-bicycle-helmet-has-b... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17064655/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17064655/
- sonofhans 3y agoThe only data I’ve seen on that is one guy who self-sampled and self-reported. I’d be happy to see more.
- smileysteve 3y agoAppears he did self sample, but reporting was quantitative with a ultrasonic sensor. In the UK. https://drianwalker.com/overtaking/ https://drianwalker.com/overtaking/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-helmets-attract-cars-to-cyclists/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-...
- jjtheblunt 3y agoWhere’s that data?
- smileysteve 3y agoIt's in the UK, using ultrasonic sensors. Dr. Ian Walker has provided follow-up as well https://drianwalker.com/overtaking/ https://drianwalker.com/overtaking/
- bdcravens 3y agoKind of tacky, but I had a strange "what if" kind of conversation with someone about alcohol. The premise was that more people are born due to drunken sexual encounters than are killed by drunk drivers.
- abandonliberty 3y agoMore cyclists on the road makes it safer for cyclists. Combined with risk compensation, this seems enough to make helmet laws a net negative. Well studied. Wear a helmet though, they work!
- goda90 3y agoA better alternative law would be to provide free helmets. People can choose not to use them out of preference but at least they'll have one to make that choice with.
- vasco 3y agoNothing is free, you're just making other people pay for helmets that likely wouldn't be used.
- pjerem 3y agoNeither is public healthcare system but if a free helmet for everyone reduces healthcare costs globally, ultimately it’s other people paying less. (I guess it doesn’t work if you don’t have public healthcare)
- vasco 3y agoSaying other things that aren't free doesn't make the first thing become free. People who don't use helmets don't do it because they are too expensive. They do it because it's not convenient to carry, because it's not cool, because it messes your hair, because you need somewhere to store it. (Not) Free helmets solve zero of these problems, it's just a bad idea.
- RamRodification 3y agoYou are just nitpicking on semantics. If the total cost of publicly funded healthcare is reduced from people using helmets then that could result in not increasing what you are "making other people pay" even though you are also offering helmets at no cost. That is what most people would consider free. People who don't use helmets for whatever reason would be more inclined to do so if they could just go pick one up, and didn't have to pay for them in a store. Even if those reasons are not that they are expensive. It's a great idea.
- arpinum 3y agoBicycle helmets are not designed for impact with a car. They are designed to handle falls to the ground. The forces are quite different.
- tim333 3y agoI think that's pretty true in my demographic - kind of old fat, at risk of heart attacks and a casual cyclist. For us lot heart attack deaths are like 1000x+ more than cycle head fatalities. On the other hand for young cycle racers I'd go with compulsory helmets.