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South Korea does it too. It forbids Google from access to its official map. Only local enterprises are licensed to get it. Precisely, the government bans the ex

South Korea does it too. It forbids Google from access to its official map. Only local enterprises are licensed to get it. Precisely, the government bans the export of geographical data abroad. Check out the 243rd page of a US government report on trade barrier: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2024%20NTE%20Report_1.pdf https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2024%20NTE%20Report_1.p...

Intralexical 2y ago
The consequences for them seem a bit more urgent, though, given Seoul lying in artillery range of the DMZ.
- javajosh 2y ago
  Yes, I'm sure obfuscating Google Street maps will prevent DPR artillery from accurately striking targets in Seoul.
  - Intralexical 2y ago
    Given some of the genius contraptions and tactics that the Russian Army has been caught using in Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did. Also, infosec isn't binary. Obfuscating Google Maps might not prevent the DPRK from doing terrible things to Seoul, but not obfuscating it would probably make it easier for them to do so.
    - solarkraft 2y ago
      > some of the genius contraptions and tactics that the Russian Army has been caught using in Ukraine This may have gone past me (I mostly remember the highly non-genius tactics), do you have some examples?
      - gembeMx 2y ago
        I’m sure the American tax payers are sending in billions of dollars because Russia is highly non genius lol. Get your head out your ass
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        In Russia several hundreds of thousands of casualties is genius.
        jampekka 2y ago
        There doesn't seem to be any reliable casualty numbers from the war. It's entirely possible there are more Ukrainan than Russian casualties. https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-losses-casualties-tanks-death-toll-anniversary-1864726 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-losses-casualties-ta...
        gembeMx 2y ago
        Exactly, Russia has been “dying” for years now but there’s only one country crying in the media.
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        Russia doesn't have any media to cry in, so there's that.
        gembeMx 2y ago
        [dead]
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        I was thinking of the combined casualties. It's not something to celebrate to hurt so many people for the benefit of the thieves in the Kremlin.
        mrguyorama 2y ago
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
        They seem to have placed GPS guided glide wing packages on old WW2 stylebombs dropped from bombers. :-/
        amenhotep 2y ago
        The UMPK packages look janky to the eye but JDAM is exactly the same thing and nobody makes snarky comments on the internet about that.
  - duxup 2y ago
    Autocratic governments can be surprisingly inefficient / bad at things.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    On one hand, I’m quite sure South Korea’s government has put a whole lot more thought into this than we have, and they decided to obfuscate the maps so… who knows, I guess they decided it helps. On the other hand, given that NK is using, what, WW2 vintage artillery, I can’t see how. They are probably aiming “south” with magnitude “lots,” right? What good is a 500 meter offset, or whatever, going to do when they are just aiming at the city in general.
    - lainga 2y ago
      On the third hand, if you've ever had to interact with a Korean bank over the internet (or read any of the laws that constrain this interaction), then yes, > South Korea’s government has put a whole lot more thought into this than we have in approximately 1998. and then never again. if it's not broken (for the chaebols), well...
lmz 2y ago
Note the bias against China in the comments here vs South Korea which is effectively doing the same thing.
- throwawayqqq11 2y ago
  Note the topic is about china and any restriction of "public" data will gather negative comments. The only bias i am seeing is yours.
  - lmz 2y ago
    It's biased in the sense that this seems to be common practice in the region and yet China is singled out while darling US ally South Korea which does comparable things is excused (e.g. see sibling comments excusing it because of the conflict with NK).
- himinlomax 2y ago
  South Korea is currently at war with a hostile oppressive totalitarian neighbour. China is at war with its people.
  - lmz 2y ago
    Doesn't Taiwan still claim the mainland as its own, at least in theory? Also there are border conflicts with e.g. India.
    - camgunz 2y ago
      This is a false equivalence
    - himinlomax 2y ago
      Taiwan only continues to claim it because rescinding the claim would be seen as "separatist" and thus a casus belli for the CCP to end the status quo.
  - ii41 2y ago
indrora 2y ago
The functional implications of this are a little different. Google, Bing, and others specifically have bitmap maps that are served out of Korea for this purpose. You can see it in Bing since the maps for Bing Maps use the classic Microsoft ~~ditches and diversions~~ Streets and Trips style maps. In Google, there’s a few spots in Japan that are rendered in Korea at some zoom levels. There’s been a lot of discussion on how to improve OSM in SK but it’s often through analog holes that are plausibly illegitimate. I talked about it previously. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38555567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38555567
jajko 2y ago
I saw the same in remote regions of eastern India (day dreaming about visiting them). Streets where river flows, interest point in the middle of wide river bed. Not far from china per se, but definitely a different country.
fdr 2y ago
My understanding is it forbids the hosting of the government collected (and curated, e.g. with regard to military bases) data outside the country, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_dat.... See also, https://blog.opencagedata.com/post/openstreetmap-in-korea https://blog.opencagedata.com/post/openstreetmap-in-korea, which relates the situation the same way. It doesn't seem like anyone is hassled for editing openstreetmap from here (and it is quite voluminous), so long as it is not a derivative work of the public surveys. There is an alternative military-base removed tileset variant, but I believe this is to aid korean GIS users who may not want their application to show sensitive installations, which can generate controversy.

Intralexical 2y ago

The consequences for them seem a bit more urgent, though, given Seoul lying in artillery range of the DMZ.

javajosh 2y ago
Yes, I'm sure obfuscating Google Street maps will prevent DPR artillery from accurately striking targets in Seoul.
- Intralexical 2y ago
  Given some of the genius contraptions and tactics that the Russian Army has been caught using in Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did. Also, infosec isn't binary. Obfuscating Google Maps might not prevent the DPRK from doing terrible things to Seoul, but not obfuscating it would probably make it easier for them to do so.
  - solarkraft 2y ago
    > some of the genius contraptions and tactics that the Russian Army has been caught using in Ukraine This may have gone past me (I mostly remember the highly non-genius tactics), do you have some examples?
    - gembeMx 2y ago
      I’m sure the American tax payers are sending in billions of dollars because Russia is highly non genius lol. Get your head out your ass
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
        In Russia several hundreds of thousands of casualties is genius.
        jampekka 2y ago
        There doesn't seem to be any reliable casualty numbers from the war. It's entirely possible there are more Ukrainan than Russian casualties. https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-losses-casualties-tanks-death-toll-anniversary-1864726 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-losses-casualties-ta...
        gembeMx 2y ago
        Exactly, Russia has been “dying” for years now but there’s only one country crying in the media.
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        Russia doesn't have any media to cry in, so there's that.
        gembeMx 2y ago
        [dead]
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        I was thinking of the combined casualties. It's not something to celebrate to hurt so many people for the benefit of the thieves in the Kremlin.
      - mrguyorama 2y ago
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      They seem to have placed GPS guided glide wing packages on old WW2 stylebombs dropped from bombers. :-/
      - amenhotep 2y ago
        The UMPK packages look janky to the eye but JDAM is exactly the same thing and nobody makes snarky comments on the internet about that.
- duxup 2y ago
  Autocratic governments can be surprisingly inefficient / bad at things.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  On one hand, I’m quite sure South Korea’s government has put a whole lot more thought into this than we have, and they decided to obfuscate the maps so… who knows, I guess they decided it helps. On the other hand, given that NK is using, what, WW2 vintage artillery, I can’t see how. They are probably aiming “south” with magnitude “lots,” right? What good is a 500 meter offset, or whatever, going to do when they are just aiming at the city in general.
  - lainga 2y ago
    On the third hand, if you've ever had to interact with a Korean bank over the internet (or read any of the laws that constrain this interaction), then yes, > South Korea’s government has put a whole lot more thought into this than we have in approximately 1998. and then never again. if it's not broken (for the chaebols), well...

lmz 2y ago

Note the bias against China in the comments here vs South Korea which is effectively doing the same thing.

throwawayqqq11 2y ago
Note the topic is about china and any restriction of "public" data will gather negative comments. The only bias i am seeing is yours.
- lmz 2y ago
  It's biased in the sense that this seems to be common practice in the region and yet China is singled out while darling US ally South Korea which does comparable things is excused (e.g. see sibling comments excusing it because of the conflict with NK).
himinlomax 2y ago
South Korea is currently at war with a hostile oppressive totalitarian neighbour. China is at war with its people.
- lmz 2y ago
  Doesn't Taiwan still claim the mainland as its own, at least in theory? Also there are border conflicts with e.g. India.
  - camgunz 2y ago
    This is a false equivalence
  - himinlomax 2y ago
    Taiwan only continues to claim it because rescinding the claim would be seen as "separatist" and thus a casus belli for the CCP to end the status quo.
- ii41 2y ago

indrora 2y ago

The functional implications of this are a little different. Google, Bing, and others specifically have bitmap maps that are served out of Korea for this purpose. You can see it in Bing since the maps for Bing Maps use the classic Microsoft ~~ditches and diversions~~ Streets and Trips style maps. In Google, there’s a few spots in Japan that are rendered in Korea at some zoom levels. There’s been a lot of discussion on how to improve OSM in SK but it’s often through analog holes that are plausibly illegitimate. I talked about it previously. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38555567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38555567

jajko 2y ago

I saw the same in remote regions of eastern India (day dreaming about visiting them). Streets where river flows, interest point in the middle of wide river bed. Not far from china per se, but definitely a different country.

fdr 2y ago

My understanding is it forbids the hosting of the government collected (and curated, e.g. with regard to military bases) data outside the country, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_dat.... See also, https://blog.opencagedata.com/post/openstreetmap-in-korea https://blog.opencagedata.com/post/openstreetmap-in-korea, which relates the situation the same way. It doesn't seem like anyone is hassled for editing openstreetmap from here (and it is quite voluminous), so long as it is not a derivative work of the public surveys. There is an alternative military-base removed tileset variant, but I believe this is to aid korean GIS users who may not want their application to show sensitive installations, which can generate controversy.