7 ms·

It seems that even taking geotagged photos is illegal in China, indeed some camera models automatically disable geotagging when inside China: https://ogleearth.

It seems that even taking geotagged photos is illegal in China, indeed some camera models automatically disable geotagging when inside China: https://ogleearth.com/2012/05/why-do-panasonic-leica-fujifilm-samsung-and-nikon-censor-their-gps-cameras/ https://ogleearth.com/2012/05/why-do-panasonic-leica-fujifil...

hwbunny 2y ago
Never had any issues. Noone cared about my camera while I was there. And I created like 5K photos there. Not that I ever use GPS, because it eats away your batter, but noone really cared about it.
- nirui 2y ago
  If my memory is still correct, in China camera products must have their GPS module removed/disabled before they're licensed for sale. Since these products looked the same from the outside, and are commonly used by everyone who wants to, nobody will bother to check every single one. Unless of course, if the camera gets too close to (say) a military/civil defense installation (often includes their office buildings), their security will probably do a check or just ask people to leave. They usually setup a sign near by to indicate "No trespassing" and maybe "No photographing" etc, just don't bring the camera over the line (I mean, better stay out completely if it says "No trespassing").
  - ammo1662 2y ago
    Most of the cameras do not have GPS module. And for some cameras like Canon 5D Mark IV [1], or 6D Mark II [2], they do have GPS even for Chinese market. However, for the Camera which have GPS module, you will need additional filing to license your product. So some of the companies just hide the feature. Clearly it is not "must have GPS removed". [1] https://www.canon.com.cn/product/5dmk4/spec.html https://www.canon.com.cn/product/5dmk4/spec.html [2] https://www.canon.com.cn/product/6dmk2/spec.html https://www.canon.com.cn/product/6dmk2/spec.html
    - nirui 2y ago
      That was completely from my memory, and I don't work in the industry, so my information/interpretation maybe inaccurate. Thanks for the additional info.
- Kadin 2y ago
  In many products, there are different firmware or software loads for the PRC market (specifically PRC -- until recently not the HK versions) and the rest of the world. In some devices it's possible to lock satellite positioning to only Chinese constellation (BeiDou), or introduce error, or just not include positioning by default. Of course, some of those devices get through, or are carried in by tourists, or are enabled by enthusiasts who load the non-China firmware. This seems to be understood. The Chinese are smart enough, one presumes, to know that actual state-level competitors can get accurate (in the chosen geodetic system) location data without relying on tourists' geotagged Google Photos uploads. But that does lead to the question, "why, then?" -- if your adversaries know your secret, it's probably not worth the effort of protecting, anymore. (And why, in the US, we know about stuff like VENONA now.) The Chinese seem focused on a different threat: they don't care if a few people have good location data, even if some of them work for the US NGA, they just don't want everyone to have that data. Which is interesting, because it suggests that that they're less concerned about a foreign government with strategic intelligence, than they are their own domestic population. This isn't about state secrets vs other states; it's about denying their own population a capability that they find valuable, and thus threatening.
  - petre 2y ago
    It's the commie way of "fixing" things to deter "enemies of the state": eastern radio bands, inaccurate maps, neighbour spy networks, serveral people on a landline so somebody can always listen, listening rooms for secret police inside state companies, heavily wiretaping citizens, continous party propaganda etc. Most of it is bs and it doesn't work or it's easy to circumvent, but one can never be too careful.
- rvba 2y ago
  Those laws are there to be applied selectively. When you are a nobody, they wont care. When you are a person of interest this law will be applied to you. If they want you are just a tourist, otherwise you are a spy who took 5000 photos.
  - hwbunny 2y ago
    Sure, you watch too many movies :DDD
amelius 2y ago
The government can use facial recognition etc, yet the people can't even make maps. What a nightmare of a country is that.
- cbeach 2y ago
  Ironic, that socialist/communist regimes always win power on the idea of giving control and ownership of assets back to "the people" The reality, of course, is that the people end up giving control and ownership to a one-party state. The four remaining Marxist-Leninist states are China, Cuba, Laos and Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxi...) In 2024, their Freedom Indices (out of 100) are: China: 9 Cuba: 12 Laos: 13 Vietnam: 19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    China isn't Marxist-Leninist - the CCP split from Marxist thinking and Comintern early in the PRC's history. It's become it's own thing because anything "communist" is just lip service at this point. Public veneration of past Chinese empires and dynasties is way more common than some idealized view of a proletariat state. Same with Vietnam (basically a crony capitalist country) and Laos (basically a buffer between Thailand, VN, and China where all three meddle)
    - cbeach 2y ago
      You might want to edit Wikipedia's list of Marxist-Leninist states, in that case? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxi... Also the page on China, which states the government is a "Unitary Marxist–Leninist one-party socialist state" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd be interested to see how that edit would be received by other editors of the page.
RobotToaster 2y ago
Never thought my camera being old enough to need a separate astrotracer GPS would have advantages.
somat 2y ago
Wouldn't this also include every single smart phone.
lolc 2y ago
Thanks for the details. It is always interesting how the most innocent things are seen as danger by an autocracy.
- Intralexical 2y ago
  Everything which is not allowed is forbidden. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_which_is_not_forbidden_is_allowed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_which_is_not_forbid...
  - readthenotes1 2y ago
    Sir John Laws, nominative determinism in action.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    That is a bit optimistic. China doesn’t really list what is allowed, it’s whatever they want to allow or forbid after the fact.
  - robocat 2y ago
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiH-QzbS4yK7Pn3O3kTERFX6kZ4v-Gk0TWMjX-aB10oqzWK65RcD8xDZiBDf-TEDKxanpEz2nqYvBiICUEIHeTgmvhbzze1PCWfaPNj0RtpV8vBFJaCBHOFzsXIDU-01WOTQXUf-Gp_oUk/s1600/don'twww-scarfolk-blogspot-com.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi...
- nimbius 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - acdha 2y ago
    Only the last sentence of your first paragraph is true: it’s legal to photograph the police and public spaces _but_ doing so may involve you needing to deal with lawless cops and that can be extremely risky depending on who you are and what mood they’re in. Dealing with that culture should be one of our top priorities.

hwbunny 2y ago

Never had any issues. Noone cared about my camera while I was there. And I created like 5K photos there. Not that I ever use GPS, because it eats away your batter, but noone really cared about it.

nirui 2y ago
If my memory is still correct, in China camera products must have their GPS module removed/disabled before they're licensed for sale. Since these products looked the same from the outside, and are commonly used by everyone who wants to, nobody will bother to check every single one. Unless of course, if the camera gets too close to (say) a military/civil defense installation (often includes their office buildings), their security will probably do a check or just ask people to leave. They usually setup a sign near by to indicate "No trespassing" and maybe "No photographing" etc, just don't bring the camera over the line (I mean, better stay out completely if it says "No trespassing").
- ammo1662 2y ago
  Most of the cameras do not have GPS module. And for some cameras like Canon 5D Mark IV [1], or 6D Mark II [2], they do have GPS even for Chinese market. However, for the Camera which have GPS module, you will need additional filing to license your product. So some of the companies just hide the feature. Clearly it is not "must have GPS removed". [1] https://www.canon.com.cn/product/5dmk4/spec.html https://www.canon.com.cn/product/5dmk4/spec.html [2] https://www.canon.com.cn/product/6dmk2/spec.html https://www.canon.com.cn/product/6dmk2/spec.html
  - nirui 2y ago
    That was completely from my memory, and I don't work in the industry, so my information/interpretation maybe inaccurate. Thanks for the additional info.
Kadin 2y ago
In many products, there are different firmware or software loads for the PRC market (specifically PRC -- until recently not the HK versions) and the rest of the world. In some devices it's possible to lock satellite positioning to only Chinese constellation (BeiDou), or introduce error, or just not include positioning by default. Of course, some of those devices get through, or are carried in by tourists, or are enabled by enthusiasts who load the non-China firmware. This seems to be understood. The Chinese are smart enough, one presumes, to know that actual state-level competitors can get accurate (in the chosen geodetic system) location data without relying on tourists' geotagged Google Photos uploads. But that does lead to the question, "why, then?" -- if your adversaries know your secret, it's probably not worth the effort of protecting, anymore. (And why, in the US, we know about stuff like VENONA now.) The Chinese seem focused on a different threat: they don't care if a few people have good location data, even if some of them work for the US NGA, they just don't want everyone to have that data. Which is interesting, because it suggests that that they're less concerned about a foreign government with strategic intelligence, than they are their own domestic population. This isn't about state secrets vs other states; it's about denying their own population a capability that they find valuable, and thus threatening.
- petre 2y ago
  It's the commie way of "fixing" things to deter "enemies of the state": eastern radio bands, inaccurate maps, neighbour spy networks, serveral people on a landline so somebody can always listen, listening rooms for secret police inside state companies, heavily wiretaping citizens, continous party propaganda etc. Most of it is bs and it doesn't work or it's easy to circumvent, but one can never be too careful.
rvba 2y ago
Those laws are there to be applied selectively. When you are a nobody, they wont care. When you are a person of interest this law will be applied to you. If they want you are just a tourist, otherwise you are a spy who took 5000 photos.
- hwbunny 2y ago
  Sure, you watch too many movies :DDD

amelius 2y ago

The government can use facial recognition etc, yet the people can't even make maps. What a nightmare of a country is that.

cbeach 2y ago
Ironic, that socialist/communist regimes always win power on the idea of giving control and ownership of assets back to "the people" The reality, of course, is that the people end up giving control and ownership to a one-party state. The four remaining Marxist-Leninist states are China, Cuba, Laos and Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxi...) In 2024, their Freedom Indices (out of 100) are: China: 9 Cuba: 12 Laos: 13 Vietnam: 19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices
- alephnerd 2y ago
  China isn't Marxist-Leninist - the CCP split from Marxist thinking and Comintern early in the PRC's history. It's become it's own thing because anything "communist" is just lip service at this point. Public veneration of past Chinese empires and dynasties is way more common than some idealized view of a proletariat state. Same with Vietnam (basically a crony capitalist country) and Laos (basically a buffer between Thailand, VN, and China where all three meddle)
  - cbeach 2y ago
    You might want to edit Wikipedia's list of Marxist-Leninist states, in that case? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxist%E2%80%93Leninist_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxi... Also the page on China, which states the government is a "Unitary Marxist–Leninist one-party socialist state" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd be interested to see how that edit would be received by other editors of the page.

RobotToaster 2y ago

Never thought my camera being old enough to need a separate astrotracer GPS would have advantages.

somat 2y ago

Wouldn't this also include every single smart phone.

lolc 2y ago

Thanks for the details. It is always interesting how the most innocent things are seen as danger by an autocracy.

Intralexical 2y ago
Everything which is not allowed is forbidden. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_which_is_not_forbidden_is_allowed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_which_is_not_forbid...
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  Sir John Laws, nominative determinism in action.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  That is a bit optimistic. China doesn’t really list what is allowed, it’s whatever they want to allow or forbid after the fact.
- robocat 2y ago
  https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiH-QzbS4yK7Pn3O3kTERFX6kZ4v-Gk0TWMjX-aB10oqzWK65RcD8xDZiBDf-TEDKxanpEz2nqYvBiICUEIHeTgmvhbzze1PCWfaPNj0RtpV8vBFJaCBHOFzsXIDU-01WOTQXUf-Gp_oUk/s1600/don'twww-scarfolk-blogspot-com.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi...
nimbius 2y ago
[flagged]
- acdha 2y ago
  Only the last sentence of your first paragraph is true: it’s legal to photograph the police and public spaces _but_ doing so may involve you needing to deal with lawless cops and that can be extremely risky depending on who you are and what mood they’re in. Dealing with that culture should be one of our top priorities.