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I love Dropbox but stuff like this is a good reminder to re-evaluate using any service that store large amount of personal data without e2ee. I understand that

I love Dropbox but stuff like this is a good reminder to re-evaluate using any service that store large amount of personal data without e2ee. I understand that partly because of block-level diffing and syncing, it's hard to provide true e2ee for Dropbox, but it's still a big reason why I'm having most of my stuff in iCloud Drive (with Advanced Data Protection), despite liking Dropbox much more. Hope they'll come around and add it at some point, and not just for businesses as hinted at when they acquired boxcryptor. (Cryptomator and encrypted sparsebundles work great on Dropbox. Just annoying to manage)

reddalo 2y ago
I use Proton Drive [1], they offer e2ee but I agree with you: the Dropbox app experience is probably still the best. [1] https://proton.me/drive https://proton.me/drive
- amelius 2y ago
  OK, so there is no fundamental obstacle for providing true e2ee.
  - nicce 2y ago
    Of course there isn't, but it limits efficiency and features. For example, you will miss all the fancy features Google Images does in cloud and user experience might be slower, since everything must be processed and downloaded on client side. Some level of metadata is always unencrypted.
    - amelius 2y ago
      That's trading one feature for a bunch of others. Users should have the choice of what features they think are important.
      - macintux 2y ago
        They typically do, by picking the product they wish to use.
  - basil-rash 2y ago
    Of course not. It’s just storing bits at the end of the day. But storing seemingly random bits will always be more expensive than storing predictable bits, and this case is no exception: Proton is roughly 4x more expensive per bit than Dropbox.
  - repelsteeltje 2y ago
    What I'd really like is for the encryption to be plugable and orthogonal to file syncing. Ie: authentication with dropbox/proton/bittorrent concerns only that you pay your storage/ingest/egress bill, but is otherwise unprotected and in the clear. Encryption of the file payload and metadata as a "bring-your-own" — on device — stream cypher (and key derivation, key management). Key exchange and sharing among devices or users might then use yet another service or mechanism. Pretty sure presenting all that in a slick easy to understand way has significant challenges, but it would be great to alleviate some of the dropbox as a single point of failure.
    - cyberpunk 2y ago
      So kinda like how rclone does encrypted backends?
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
    Was the question whether or not it is hypothetically possible to provide an E2EE storage service? Surely you can apply your engineering chops here. Of course it isn’t. But there are trade-offs, as with literally any engineering choice.
  - whatevaa 2y ago
    It is very complicated to get this right from development standpoint. In true E2E, client must be "fat", kitchen sink and everything. Pretty sure Dropbox isn't like that right now. E2E is not a "feature", it is like a different paradigm of problem solving.
Flimm 2y ago
Dropbox offers end-to-end encryption now (for business teams): https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/new-solutions-to-secure-organize-and-share-cloud-content https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/new-solutions-to-sec...
- artdigital 2y ago
  I'm not a business, I'm a paying customer on the most expensive personal tier. It's silly that they don't offer this feature for me. I also can't upgrade to a business plan because those require at least 3 users. It just feels like feature gatekeeping to me, but no way for me to pay more to get this feature. But I also understand that personal users are not Dropbox's main focus.
  - msh 2y ago
    Its says: The latest security features will be available to all Dropbox Advanced, Business Plus, and Enterprise customers starting today. Is dropbox advanced a business plan?
    - artdigital 2y ago
      Advanced is their business offering - https://help.dropbox.com/plans/advanced-plan https://help.dropbox.com/plans/advanced-plan
  - jbverschoor 2y ago
    Apple does offer this
  - ghusbands 2y ago
    If you want encryption enough, you can probably pay for a three-person business plan and just not set up the extra users. Looks like it would double your monthly subscription over the most expensive personal plan.
  - aborsy 2y ago
    A Synology/QNAP/TrueNAS NAS is a far better solution, with no restriction.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jimmaswell 2y ago
I used to love Dropbox, then they limited devices and storage so much it was barely worth it, and spamming me with nag popups all day to upgrade because my storage was near full sealed the deal and I just started using OneDrive (not much better but it's integeated and convenient, probably going to just go foss with a home server eventually). Another sad downfall of a once good company.
- jrgoff 2y ago
  They only limited devices for free accounts.
  - jimmaswell 2y ago
    Paywalling existing free functionality is the most creatively bankrupt and fast way to get me to never buy your product.

reddalo 2y ago

I use Proton Drive [1], they offer e2ee but I agree with you: the Dropbox app experience is probably still the best. [1] https://proton.me/drive https://proton.me/drive

amelius 2y ago
OK, so there is no fundamental obstacle for providing true e2ee.
- nicce 2y ago
  Of course there isn't, but it limits efficiency and features. For example, you will miss all the fancy features Google Images does in cloud and user experience might be slower, since everything must be processed and downloaded on client side. Some level of metadata is always unencrypted.
  - amelius 2y ago
    That's trading one feature for a bunch of others. Users should have the choice of what features they think are important.
    - macintux 2y ago
      They typically do, by picking the product they wish to use.
- basil-rash 2y ago
  Of course not. It’s just storing bits at the end of the day. But storing seemingly random bits will always be more expensive than storing predictable bits, and this case is no exception: Proton is roughly 4x more expensive per bit than Dropbox.
- repelsteeltje 2y ago
  What I'd really like is for the encryption to be plugable and orthogonal to file syncing. Ie: authentication with dropbox/proton/bittorrent concerns only that you pay your storage/ingest/egress bill, but is otherwise unprotected and in the clear. Encryption of the file payload and metadata as a "bring-your-own" — on device — stream cypher (and key derivation, key management). Key exchange and sharing among devices or users might then use yet another service or mechanism. Pretty sure presenting all that in a slick easy to understand way has significant challenges, but it would be great to alleviate some of the dropbox as a single point of failure.
  - cyberpunk 2y ago
    So kinda like how rclone does encrypted backends?
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  Was the question whether or not it is hypothetically possible to provide an E2EE storage service? Surely you can apply your engineering chops here. Of course it isn’t. But there are trade-offs, as with literally any engineering choice.
- whatevaa 2y ago
  It is very complicated to get this right from development standpoint. In true E2E, client must be "fat", kitchen sink and everything. Pretty sure Dropbox isn't like that right now. E2E is not a "feature", it is like a different paradigm of problem solving.

Flimm 2y ago

Dropbox offers end-to-end encryption now (for business teams): https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/new-solutions-to-secure-organize-and-share-cloud-content https://blog.dropbox.com/topics/company/new-solutions-to-sec...

artdigital 2y ago
I'm not a business, I'm a paying customer on the most expensive personal tier. It's silly that they don't offer this feature for me. I also can't upgrade to a business plan because those require at least 3 users. It just feels like feature gatekeeping to me, but no way for me to pay more to get this feature. But I also understand that personal users are not Dropbox's main focus.
- msh 2y ago
  Its says: The latest security features will be available to all Dropbox Advanced, Business Plus, and Enterprise customers starting today. Is dropbox advanced a business plan?
  - artdigital 2y ago
    Advanced is their business offering - https://help.dropbox.com/plans/advanced-plan https://help.dropbox.com/plans/advanced-plan
- jbverschoor 2y ago
  Apple does offer this
- ghusbands 2y ago
  If you want encryption enough, you can probably pay for a three-person business plan and just not set up the extra users. Looks like it would double your monthly subscription over the most expensive personal plan.
- aborsy 2y ago
  A Synology/QNAP/TrueNAS NAS is a far better solution, with no restriction.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jimmaswell 2y ago

I used to love Dropbox, then they limited devices and storage so much it was barely worth it, and spamming me with nag popups all day to upgrade because my storage was near full sealed the deal and I just started using OneDrive (not much better but it's integeated and convenient, probably going to just go foss with a home server eventually). Another sad downfall of a once good company.

jrgoff 2y ago
They only limited devices for free accounts.
- jimmaswell 2y ago
  Paywalling existing free functionality is the most creatively bankrupt and fast way to get me to never buy your product.