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Ubuntu 24.04 LTS is so buggy you can't install the OS [video]

53 points by ArtemZ 2y ago

tssva 2y ago
I have had issues with the installer crashing frequently. I’ve been unable to get it to run to completion. I am trying to install it on a ThinkPad which I replaced as my primary laptop a few months ago. The laptop previously had Windows 11 installed on it and the drive encrypted with bitlocker. When I could get the installer to the drive selection screen without crashing it wouldn’t let me install on the drive encrypted with bitlocker. It repeatedly prompted that I had to free space using windows or choose the option to erase the entire drive and then install. Problem is that I was choosing the option to install the erase the drive. I just wiped the drive using gparted. That got me passed that issue hit the installer never completed without crashing once I got beyond that. When I have bandwidth next weekend I’ll try the new Fedora release instead.
- repelsteeltje 2y ago
  So the issue is mostly with the installer, I suppose? No surprise - I usually wait a while for dust to settle after a new lts. So far I only tested the Noble release in VMs and containers (docker, incus, kvm on ARM and Intel) and that seemed to work just fine. LXC still broken, though.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  Do yourself the favor and don't use Ubuntu.
  - tssva 2y ago
    I run Ubuntu server on all my home servers and the multiple Raspberry Pi’s I have deployed around my horse farm serving various purposes. I am quite happy with it. In the past I have greatly preferred Ubuntu over Fedora for the desktop and would have preferred to use it on the old laptop. Maybe they will have the setup issues resolved for the 24.04.1 release.
  - les_diabolique 2y ago
    I've been using Ubuntu as my desktop for a few years already. Overall I don't have too many issues, but do you have any recommendations for an alternative?
    - guilherme-puida 2y ago
      Debian.
    - exe34 2y ago
      I use debian on my servers and nixos on laptop. Both solid distros. They never seem to induce the kind of rage I used to feel with Ubuntu (although the last time I gave it a chance was right after they changed from alsa to pulseaudio and brought flashbacks to oss days).
    - logicprog 2y ago
      PopOS. I don't use it anymore but it's basically Ubuntu but more stable/QA'd and without all the annoying decisions.
- iamjkt 2y ago
  Tried installing using pxeboot, with cloud-seed. Runs through and then spins at 2.5Ghz getting no further and no way to log on and view logs. Never gets far enough to write to hdd.
underlogic 2y ago
I hear silverblue is worth a look
- _lvbh 2y ago
  Daily drove silverblue for a year as a developer. It’s not worth it. A lot of things don’t work and it’s not as hackable. Perhaps for normal use it’s fine. Now using Fedora Workstation. I like it but Fedora 40 isn’t very stable (gnome stuff crashing).
  - jasomill 2y ago
    As another data point: I used Fedora Silverblue for a couple years, switched to Kinoite (Silverblue - Gnome + KDE) without reinstalling a couple months ago, and updated to 40 last week, and everything seems to be working fine. While I can't vouch for Gnome, the only KDE migration bug I noticed was that the update slightly rearranged the items on one of my custom panels and reset my desktop wallpaper (the latter may not be a bug). As for development/hackability: you need to understand ostree, rpm-ostree, and flatpak fundamentals, not be afraid to layer packages where containerization is impossible or inconvenient, and accept that cookie-cutter configuration recipes intended for other distros aren't likely to work. I'd also recommend distrobox over the bundled toolbox for managing distro environment containers, because useful additional features. With all that said, I've been using Silverblue+Kinoite daily as a development (Linux + Windows in libvirt-managed VM) system for over a year without no regrets whatsoever, and only trivial complications (e.g., running a trivial shell script to rewrite JetBrains Toolbox-created .desktop files so JetBrains IDEs run in my preferred distrobox container when launched via GUI). As a shout-out to another Fedora immutable distro, I've also switched to Fedora CoreOS for new home office network service deployments and this has been similarly pleasant and hassle-free.
  - brian_cunnie 2y ago
    Fedora 45?! Dang, I only upgraded to Fedora 40 but days ago.
    - _lvbh 2y ago
runjake 2y ago
23.10 installed and worked great on my homebuilt i5-12600k (AMD RX 6600) PC. 24.04 has been buggy/crashy with multiple things, even after a wipe and reinstall. Still sticking with it and attempting to hold out for 24.04.1 before going back to Fedora. I much prefer apt over dnf.
- jcgrillo 2y ago
  I ran Fedora for a very long and pleasant time until one day an OS update completely and (at least within the bounds of my patience) permanently broke all wireless networking on my Dell laptop. Ubuntu LTS has worked ok enough since then, probably because Dell ships Ubuntu on some laptops. I will absolutely not be upgrading to this LTS until 24.04.1 has proven itself for a while. I realize it's my own damn fault for owning a Dell instead of a Thinkpad, but afaict my ruggedized Dell is the only semi-affordable way to get a sunlight readable display in a laptop. I'd kill for a sunlight readable Framework >_>
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  I installed Ubuntu 22 into an Hyper-V VM using quick create and it still shows one or two errors on first boot. I'm not sure what's crashing but it's rather weird. That said, I have a suspicion the same crashes also happen on other distros, Ubuntu just offers the ability to send a crash report.
StefanBatory 2y ago
I stopped using Ubuntu after its installer failed on me, removing all partitions. Unprompted. EDIT: I remember I got up to enabling third-party drivers before partitioning, it was behaving weirdly so I went back, then it crashed and I restarted to see no partitions. I don't remember the details but my thing is I'm sure it was before partitoning.
jamesy0ung 2y ago
I installed 24.04 LTS Server on a 2012 Mac Mini last night, had no issues whatsoever.
- eichin 2y ago
  A couple of boring (LVM+encrypt) installs on 5+ year old thinkpads were uneventful as well. "Experimental" ZFS+encryption failed entirely (on the same machines) but it did say experimental right there on the page...
shrimp_emoji 2y ago
Ubuntu is the buggiest distro I've ever used. It's ironic cuz it's supposed to be the most stable, mainstream one. But, from installation to day to day usage, it was crashtastic in the years I was on it. By comparison, my equal number of years split between Manjaro and Arch, I've had almost zero issues. Somehow, the scary, dangerous rolling distros seem the most stable. It's hard to wrap a brain around.
- jjcm 2y ago
  Are you using the GUI or are you using it headless? Just to pile on anecdotal evidence, the oldest ubuntu server I have running has been going for 11 years now with no issues. I have around 4 others also running with no issues. These are all headless though.
wordofx 2y ago
Rather use windows than be subjected to Ubuntu.
- yoavm 2y ago
  Care to explain? this sounds a bit like "I rather use Google Chrome because Firefox defaults to collecting telemetry!"
  - wordofx 2y ago
    Because Ubuntu is actively fighting the community they once helped build. They don’t take feedback seriously anymore. They don’t build Ubuntu for users. Thankfully there’s plenty of alternatives where feedback is actually appreciated.
    - yoavm 2y ago
      plenty of alternatives where feedback is actually appreciated, like Windows?
glyphy177 2y ago
[dead]
horsellama 2y ago
What’s the best alternative distro for ML work? I mainly need the nvidia stack + PyTorch
- homarp 2y ago
  arch ?
  - all2 2y ago
    I managed to get a 4090 hooked up on an Arch machine. It buzzes when the LLM is generating stuff. It isn't a straight forward thing, though, you still have to dig through the deps and get your versions just right. On top of that you need to get your versions from bottom-to-top correct for everything to work. Some versions of Cuda don't play nicely with some versions of the Python modules, so take care if you go this route.
- exe34 2y ago
  My 3090 is plugged into an old intel pc running Debian 11. Tried Debian 12, but couldn't quite get the right version of cuda to work with both tensorflow and pytorch.
- lnxg33k1 2y ago
  I’m using debian sid without issues to communicate, but Ive used linux for 20 years so maybe my definition of issues might be poisoned I switched to sid from arch because their approach to software major release is dangerous (i.e. adopt plasma 6 the day of release)
- rickspencer3 2y ago
  I am so biased this borders on shilling, but may I suggest taking a look at openSUSE Leap Micro? https://get.opensuse.org/leapmicro/5.5/ https://get.opensuse.org/leapmicro/5.5/ We (SUSE) have extensive testing and quality control, if you are looking for something very stable. Leap is the version built out of the same bits as the enterprise version. The "Micro" part means it is smaller, transactional, and immutable. It's built for containerized and virtualized applications. You can install the nvidia OS bits in the OS, and then build a container with libraries.
nikeee 2y ago
Are there some insights on why they chose the rather unusual stack of using rust and flutter for the new UI? To the outside observer, it seems like it's not a carefully taken business decision but some random engineer who wanted to learn rust and flutter. Firstly rust for an installer UI? Does it need to be especially fast or memory safe? Maybe. Does it have nice bindings for a UI layer? Maybe, or did they create the bindings for flutter (a UI framework designed for object-oriented Dart) by themselves? So why flutter? I guess it can do some pretty animations. Being maintained by Google and designed for Dart, it may just get abandoned in some time, amplified by the fact that noone uses Dart, except for flutter.
- oooyay 2y ago
  Canonical made an announcement some time ago when Flutter started supporting desktop usecases that they were all in on Flutter: https://snapcraft.io/blog/canonical-enables-linux-desktop-app-support-with-flutter?_ga=2.130672647.968809281.1615741199-1046984023.1615195227 https://snapcraft.io/blog/canonical-enables-linux-desktop-ap... This is them actually discussing the installer: https://ubuntu.com/blog/flutter-and-ubuntu-so-far https://ubuntu.com/blog/flutter-and-ubuntu-so-far
- kyrofa 2y ago
  It's top-down engineering. Mark commanded the desktop team to go all-in on Flutter. This is how Canonical functions.
  - wmf 2y ago
    So he's learned nothing from Unity and Mir.
    - jeroenhd 2y ago
      Unity and Mir were ready and usable years before Wayland was usable in practice, though. It's still used on Ubuntu Touch because it allows for reuse of the existing Android graphics acceleration stack in a way that Wayland doesn't. Canonical often invents things that other parties like Red Hat then reinvent, often learning from the mistakes Canonical makes, leading to a better end result for everyone. I dread to think what systemd would've looked like had upstart not laid the foundations for a normal service management system on Linux.
asddubs 2y ago
the .0 releases can have their problems, but a canonical engineer also did literally submit a kernel patch to fix a bug that prevented my machine from booting with any new enough kernel in response to a bug report.
dyingkneepad 2y ago
I'm here just to remind everybody that the Debian Stable release cadence is about the same as Ubuntu LTS. Plus Debian doesn't have snaps, Unity and the other Ubuntu-specific "value-adds". (on the other hand, Debian's bug report is stuck in the 1920's, still being completely based on e-mail) Edit: also, if you use new hardware, just install Debian Testing, configure /etc/apt/sources.list to say "trixie" instead of "testing", which will ensure that next year you'll be using Debian Stable then Trixie becomes Stable.
- dima55 2y ago
  And on top of that, Debian's bug tracker is where development happens (as opposed to Ubuntu's, which is a black hole). And packages that cannot be built, get a bug report BEFORE the release on Debian, but are silently not included in the release on Ubuntu. Ubuntu is "Debian with extra crap and extra bugs". Debian strongly recommended.
  - mianos 2y ago
    I feel this has changed over the years too. Many years ago I chose Ubuntu as it was fresher and bugs seemed to be fixed quicker, maybe as it was always more recent. I moved to Debian and found there was not really any small bugs and, as a bonus, no major things completely broken like Ubuntu broke a few packages with some sort of snap dpkg confusion. Ubuntu has a bit of a stinky vibe lately. The whole lxd thing and the number of people I know, some I have worked with and are great, went to work there and left quickly.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  > still being completely based on e-mail Nope, the process can start with "reportbug" utility, which needs a setup in the first run, but allows bug reporting from the comfort of your terminal. On the other hand, once you install Debian, you won't be reinstalling it for the next two decades. It'll just update. > also, if you use new hardware, just install Debian Testing... Sure, that's fine for personal systems & office workstations which are behind a NAT, with a peaceful network. For any server and internet facing devices, install Debian Stable with NetInstall ISO and enable firmware installation. Testing does not get security updates. I repeat: Testing does not get security updates. --Sent from my Debian Trixie box.
moffkalast 2y ago
I've been running the 23.10 Desktop version on a Pi 5 for the last few months for a project and it was working reasonably fine. Tried the 24.04 release the past few days and it's genuinely unusably laggy and unresponsive. I suppose it'll be sorted out eventually, maybe they forgot to add Vulkan support or something haha. 24.04 Server works fine it seems at least, might be worth trying to install KDE on it, GNOME delenda est.
wildylion 2y ago
As a person responsible for endpoints in my company, I was awaiting 24.04 with impatience, because of how they promised TPM-based LUKS encryption. Finally, no telling users why they need TWO passphrases on their machines! Well, yes. You bet the encryption works. Even an advanced hacker will have a hard time unlocking the hard drive... if after the install the TPM refuses to escrow the key, and you can only see your recovery seed AFTER a successful installation!
kyrofa 2y ago
Even when I worked at Canonical I never installed the latest LTS until at least its first point release in the summer. Maybe I'm part of the problem: if more people followed my lead, the initial release would get buggier and buggier.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Same. I never move to the next LTS release until the prior one is getting close to EOL. Let others shake out the bugs.
- sshine 2y ago
  Yes, that is the problem. That is why so much software sucks. Because the people who make it don’t use it, and hardly care to thoroughly test if it works. We’re lucky to catch things with extensive dogfooding. (Also, no blame here. I could imagine working for Canonical and not even running Ubuntu.)
  - kyrofa 2y ago
    > Also, no blame here. Oh don't worry, no offense taken. It's an interesting problem: dogfooding is definitely a good way to catch problems, but if your release is unstable enough to break machines, you can end up with a wide swath of the company being unproductive. The stability of the overall release wasn't one of my core responsibilities, so naturally I gave more priority to the things that were; I needed a release that worked so I could get my job done. There might be some cultural solutions to that. For example, if the company expects that employees are dogfooding, perhaps testing out a beta in a specific timeframe, it could be culturally expected that devs might have broken machines during that timeframe. If was that taken into account in both the schedule as well as support paths, that would make things a bit easier. Honestly, though, even if that were the case, it would still be a hard sell for me. Quite simply: I don't like failing at my duties. I would need to be convinced that this was one of my duties, and I'm not sure how the company would pull that off. And that's ignoring other very practical concerns, such as the fact that a fair number of Canonical engineers only have one work machine. Having that machine down, depending on the definition of "down," can make it difficult to get support in the first place.
DreamFlasher 2y ago
Looks like 2024 won't be the year of the Linux Desktop after all :D
trm42 2y ago
Haven't used any Linux Distribution on Desktop so cannot comment that side or the installer but my home server has been running Ubuntu LTSes for over a decade. Last night I upgraded it to 24.04 LTS and I was really surprised how well and easy it was to upgrade. Couple of previous upgrades were a lot more hairier things breaking in surprisingly ways after upgrade but this time everything worked perfectly from the first reboot.
- logicprog 2y ago
  That experience actually aligns pretty well with the op, because my experience and the general consensus among Linux users that I've seen is that canonicals focusing almost all of its effort on making Ubuntu an excellent server experience because that's where the actual business is, and is letting the desktop sort of bit rot into oblivion.
- hervem 2y ago
  How did you upgrade it? As I know there is a blocker bug which isn't fixed yet.
nikisweeting 2y ago
Be careful if you use ZFS-on-root, make sure not to snapshot bpool or it will brick your system and require a complete reinstall. https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873 https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873
renewiltord 2y ago
That sucks, man. Real pity. Had it installed just yesterday and it worked like a dream. But perhaps I will try Debian with nvidia proprietary drivers.
- iowemoretohim 2y ago
  If it worked like a dream for you why would this be an issue for you? You can easily create a edge cases for any distribution including Debian.
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    Trying to avoid future problems.
sunshine_reggae 2y ago
FIX: "write Ubuntu ISO to USB flash with dd" (from the video comments)
- iowemoretohim 2y ago
  Or use Etcher, etc. AKA Properly create a bootable USB stick. This seems to me as FUD.
sliken 2y ago
I'be heard that a long standing issue with the test releases is still present in the release and can result in a unbootable system if you try to upgrade. Be warned that the do-release-upgrade -d might well make your system unbootable. More info at: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/04/dont-upgrade-to-ubuntu-24-04-yet https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/04/dont-upgrade-to-ubuntu-2... Or at least be prepared with a backup and a reinstall from scratch, or just switch to debian.
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
Debian.
popey 2y ago
First comment on the video - from the maker of the video - is " FIX (worked for me): write Ubuntu ISO to USB flash with dd" So, yeah. Okay. (Speaking as ex-Canonical, and still Ubuntu user. I upgraded my ThinkPad 2 days before release, and it was a catastrophe I had to manually un-fudge with the help of the apt maintainer. It was a packaging problem). My feeling on this particular release is that it was rushed out, and should probably have been kept back for a month or two. The xz and t64 (2038) issues occupied some unexpected time this cycle. Also, there used to be a dedicated QA lab which did a whole slew of automated tests. I don't believe that still exists. Also, also. The Ubuntu community has shrunk, which means fewer people doing QA. Also, also, also. The guy running the desktop team left the day after the release. Read into that what you will.

53 points by ArtemZ 2y ago

I have had issues with the installer crashing frequently. I’ve been unable to get it to run to completion. I am trying to install it on a ThinkPad which I replaced as my primary laptop a few months ago. The laptop previously had Windows 11 installed on it and the drive encrypted with bitlocker. When I could get the installer to the drive selection screen without crashing it wouldn’t let me install on the drive encrypted with bitlocker. It repeatedly prompted that I had to free space using windows or choose the option to erase the entire drive and then install. Problem is that I was choosing the option to install the erase the drive. I just wiped the drive using gparted. That got me passed that issue hit the installer never completed without crashing once I got beyond that. When I have bandwidth next weekend I’ll try the new Fedora release instead.

repelsteeltje 2y ago
So the issue is mostly with the installer, I suppose? No surprise - I usually wait a while for dust to settle after a new lts. So far I only tested the Noble release in VMs and containers (docker, incus, kvm on ARM and Intel) and that seemed to work just fine. LXC still broken, though.
constantcrying 2y ago
Do yourself the favor and don't use Ubuntu.
- tssva 2y ago
  I run Ubuntu server on all my home servers and the multiple Raspberry Pi’s I have deployed around my horse farm serving various purposes. I am quite happy with it. In the past I have greatly preferred Ubuntu over Fedora for the desktop and would have preferred to use it on the old laptop. Maybe they will have the setup issues resolved for the 24.04.1 release.
- les_diabolique 2y ago
  I've been using Ubuntu as my desktop for a few years already. Overall I don't have too many issues, but do you have any recommendations for an alternative?
  - guilherme-puida 2y ago
    Debian.
  - exe34 2y ago
    I use debian on my servers and nixos on laptop. Both solid distros. They never seem to induce the kind of rage I used to feel with Ubuntu (although the last time I gave it a chance was right after they changed from alsa to pulseaudio and brought flashbacks to oss days).
  - logicprog 2y ago
    PopOS. I don't use it anymore but it's basically Ubuntu but more stable/QA'd and without all the annoying decisions.
iamjkt 2y ago
Tried installing using pxeboot, with cloud-seed. Runs through and then spins at 2.5Ghz getting no further and no way to log on and view logs. Never gets far enough to write to hdd.

underlogic 2y ago

I hear silverblue is worth a look

_lvbh 2y ago
Daily drove silverblue for a year as a developer. It’s not worth it. A lot of things don’t work and it’s not as hackable. Perhaps for normal use it’s fine. Now using Fedora Workstation. I like it but Fedora 40 isn’t very stable (gnome stuff crashing).
- jasomill 2y ago
  As another data point: I used Fedora Silverblue for a couple years, switched to Kinoite (Silverblue - Gnome + KDE) without reinstalling a couple months ago, and updated to 40 last week, and everything seems to be working fine. While I can't vouch for Gnome, the only KDE migration bug I noticed was that the update slightly rearranged the items on one of my custom panels and reset my desktop wallpaper (the latter may not be a bug). As for development/hackability: you need to understand ostree, rpm-ostree, and flatpak fundamentals, not be afraid to layer packages where containerization is impossible or inconvenient, and accept that cookie-cutter configuration recipes intended for other distros aren't likely to work. I'd also recommend distrobox over the bundled toolbox for managing distro environment containers, because useful additional features. With all that said, I've been using Silverblue+Kinoite daily as a development (Linux + Windows in libvirt-managed VM) system for over a year without no regrets whatsoever, and only trivial complications (e.g., running a trivial shell script to rewrite JetBrains Toolbox-created .desktop files so JetBrains IDEs run in my preferred distrobox container when launched via GUI). As a shout-out to another Fedora immutable distro, I've also switched to Fedora CoreOS for new home office network service deployments and this has been similarly pleasant and hassle-free.
- brian_cunnie 2y ago
  Fedora 45?! Dang, I only upgraded to Fedora 40 but days ago.
  - _lvbh 2y ago

runjake 2y ago

23.10 installed and worked great on my homebuilt i5-12600k (AMD RX 6600) PC. 24.04 has been buggy/crashy with multiple things, even after a wipe and reinstall. Still sticking with it and attempting to hold out for 24.04.1 before going back to Fedora. I much prefer apt over dnf.

jcgrillo 2y ago
I ran Fedora for a very long and pleasant time until one day an OS update completely and (at least within the bounds of my patience) permanently broke all wireless networking on my Dell laptop. Ubuntu LTS has worked ok enough since then, probably because Dell ships Ubuntu on some laptops. I will absolutely not be upgrading to this LTS until 24.04.1 has proven itself for a while. I realize it's my own damn fault for owning a Dell instead of a Thinkpad, but afaict my ruggedized Dell is the only semi-affordable way to get a sunlight readable display in a laptop. I'd kill for a sunlight readable Framework >_>
jeroenhd 2y ago
I installed Ubuntu 22 into an Hyper-V VM using quick create and it still shows one or two errors on first boot. I'm not sure what's crashing but it's rather weird. That said, I have a suspicion the same crashes also happen on other distros, Ubuntu just offers the ability to send a crash report.

StefanBatory 2y ago

I stopped using Ubuntu after its installer failed on me, removing all partitions. Unprompted. EDIT: I remember I got up to enabling third-party drivers before partitioning, it was behaving weirdly so I went back, then it crashed and I restarted to see no partitions. I don't remember the details but my thing is I'm sure it was before partitoning.

jamesy0ung 2y ago

I installed 24.04 LTS Server on a 2012 Mac Mini last night, had no issues whatsoever.

eichin 2y ago
A couple of boring (LVM+encrypt) installs on 5+ year old thinkpads were uneventful as well. "Experimental" ZFS+encryption failed entirely (on the same machines) but it did say experimental right there on the page...

shrimp_emoji 2y ago

Ubuntu is the buggiest distro I've ever used. It's ironic cuz it's supposed to be the most stable, mainstream one. But, from installation to day to day usage, it was crashtastic in the years I was on it. By comparison, my equal number of years split between Manjaro and Arch, I've had almost zero issues. Somehow, the scary, dangerous rolling distros seem the most stable. It's hard to wrap a brain around.

jjcm 2y ago
Are you using the GUI or are you using it headless? Just to pile on anecdotal evidence, the oldest ubuntu server I have running has been going for 11 years now with no issues. I have around 4 others also running with no issues. These are all headless though.

wordofx 2y ago

Rather use windows than be subjected to Ubuntu.

yoavm 2y ago
Care to explain? this sounds a bit like "I rather use Google Chrome because Firefox defaults to collecting telemetry!"
- wordofx 2y ago
  Because Ubuntu is actively fighting the community they once helped build. They don’t take feedback seriously anymore. They don’t build Ubuntu for users. Thankfully there’s plenty of alternatives where feedback is actually appreciated.
  - yoavm 2y ago
    plenty of alternatives where feedback is actually appreciated, like Windows?

glyphy177 2y ago

[dead]

horsellama 2y ago

What’s the best alternative distro for ML work? I mainly need the nvidia stack + PyTorch

homarp 2y ago
arch ?
- all2 2y ago
  I managed to get a 4090 hooked up on an Arch machine. It buzzes when the LLM is generating stuff. It isn't a straight forward thing, though, you still have to dig through the deps and get your versions just right. On top of that you need to get your versions from bottom-to-top correct for everything to work. Some versions of Cuda don't play nicely with some versions of the Python modules, so take care if you go this route.
exe34 2y ago
My 3090 is plugged into an old intel pc running Debian 11. Tried Debian 12, but couldn't quite get the right version of cuda to work with both tensorflow and pytorch.
lnxg33k1 2y ago
I’m using debian sid without issues to communicate, but Ive used linux for 20 years so maybe my definition of issues might be poisoned I switched to sid from arch because their approach to software major release is dangerous (i.e. adopt plasma 6 the day of release)
rickspencer3 2y ago
I am so biased this borders on shilling, but may I suggest taking a look at openSUSE Leap Micro? https://get.opensuse.org/leapmicro/5.5/ https://get.opensuse.org/leapmicro/5.5/ We (SUSE) have extensive testing and quality control, if you are looking for something very stable. Leap is the version built out of the same bits as the enterprise version. The "Micro" part means it is smaller, transactional, and immutable. It's built for containerized and virtualized applications. You can install the nvidia OS bits in the OS, and then build a container with libraries.

nikeee 2y ago

Are there some insights on why they chose the rather unusual stack of using rust and flutter for the new UI? To the outside observer, it seems like it's not a carefully taken business decision but some random engineer who wanted to learn rust and flutter. Firstly rust for an installer UI? Does it need to be especially fast or memory safe? Maybe. Does it have nice bindings for a UI layer? Maybe, or did they create the bindings for flutter (a UI framework designed for object-oriented Dart) by themselves? So why flutter? I guess it can do some pretty animations. Being maintained by Google and designed for Dart, it may just get abandoned in some time, amplified by the fact that noone uses Dart, except for flutter.

oooyay 2y ago
Canonical made an announcement some time ago when Flutter started supporting desktop usecases that they were all in on Flutter: https://snapcraft.io/blog/canonical-enables-linux-desktop-app-support-with-flutter?_ga=2.130672647.968809281.1615741199-1046984023.1615195227 https://snapcraft.io/blog/canonical-enables-linux-desktop-ap... This is them actually discussing the installer: https://ubuntu.com/blog/flutter-and-ubuntu-so-far https://ubuntu.com/blog/flutter-and-ubuntu-so-far
kyrofa 2y ago
It's top-down engineering. Mark commanded the desktop team to go all-in on Flutter. This is how Canonical functions.
- wmf 2y ago
  So he's learned nothing from Unity and Mir.
  - jeroenhd 2y ago
    Unity and Mir were ready and usable years before Wayland was usable in practice, though. It's still used on Ubuntu Touch because it allows for reuse of the existing Android graphics acceleration stack in a way that Wayland doesn't. Canonical often invents things that other parties like Red Hat then reinvent, often learning from the mistakes Canonical makes, leading to a better end result for everyone. I dread to think what systemd would've looked like had upstart not laid the foundations for a normal service management system on Linux.

asddubs 2y ago

the .0 releases can have their problems, but a canonical engineer also did literally submit a kernel patch to fix a bug that prevented my machine from booting with any new enough kernel in response to a bug report.

dyingkneepad 2y ago

I'm here just to remind everybody that the Debian Stable release cadence is about the same as Ubuntu LTS. Plus Debian doesn't have snaps, Unity and the other Ubuntu-specific "value-adds". (on the other hand, Debian's bug report is stuck in the 1920's, still being completely based on e-mail) Edit: also, if you use new hardware, just install Debian Testing, configure /etc/apt/sources.list to say "trixie" instead of "testing", which will ensure that next year you'll be using Debian Stable then Trixie becomes Stable.

dima55 2y ago
And on top of that, Debian's bug tracker is where development happens (as opposed to Ubuntu's, which is a black hole). And packages that cannot be built, get a bug report BEFORE the release on Debian, but are silently not included in the release on Ubuntu. Ubuntu is "Debian with extra crap and extra bugs". Debian strongly recommended.
- mianos 2y ago
  I feel this has changed over the years too. Many years ago I chose Ubuntu as it was fresher and bugs seemed to be fixed quicker, maybe as it was always more recent. I moved to Debian and found there was not really any small bugs and, as a bonus, no major things completely broken like Ubuntu broke a few packages with some sort of snap dpkg confusion. Ubuntu has a bit of a stinky vibe lately. The whole lxd thing and the number of people I know, some I have worked with and are great, went to work there and left quickly.
bayindirh 2y ago
> still being completely based on e-mail Nope, the process can start with "reportbug" utility, which needs a setup in the first run, but allows bug reporting from the comfort of your terminal. On the other hand, once you install Debian, you won't be reinstalling it for the next two decades. It'll just update. > also, if you use new hardware, just install Debian Testing... Sure, that's fine for personal systems & office workstations which are behind a NAT, with a peaceful network. For any server and internet facing devices, install Debian Stable with NetInstall ISO and enable firmware installation. Testing does not get security updates. I repeat: Testing does not get security updates. --Sent from my Debian Trixie box.

moffkalast 2y ago

I've been running the 23.10 Desktop version on a Pi 5 for the last few months for a project and it was working reasonably fine. Tried the 24.04 release the past few days and it's genuinely unusably laggy and unresponsive. I suppose it'll be sorted out eventually, maybe they forgot to add Vulkan support or something haha. 24.04 Server works fine it seems at least, might be worth trying to install KDE on it, GNOME delenda est.

wildylion 2y ago

As a person responsible for endpoints in my company, I was awaiting 24.04 with impatience, because of how they promised TPM-based LUKS encryption. Finally, no telling users why they need TWO passphrases on their machines! Well, yes. You bet the encryption works. Even an advanced hacker will have a hard time unlocking the hard drive... if after the install the TPM refuses to escrow the key, and you can only see your recovery seed AFTER a successful installation!

kyrofa 2y ago

Even when I worked at Canonical I never installed the latest LTS until at least its first point release in the summer. Maybe I'm part of the problem: if more people followed my lead, the initial release would get buggier and buggier.

SoftTalker 2y ago
Same. I never move to the next LTS release until the prior one is getting close to EOL. Let others shake out the bugs.
sshine 2y ago
Yes, that is the problem. That is why so much software sucks. Because the people who make it don’t use it, and hardly care to thoroughly test if it works. We’re lucky to catch things with extensive dogfooding. (Also, no blame here. I could imagine working for Canonical and not even running Ubuntu.)
- kyrofa 2y ago
  > Also, no blame here. Oh don't worry, no offense taken. It's an interesting problem: dogfooding is definitely a good way to catch problems, but if your release is unstable enough to break machines, you can end up with a wide swath of the company being unproductive. The stability of the overall release wasn't one of my core responsibilities, so naturally I gave more priority to the things that were; I needed a release that worked so I could get my job done. There might be some cultural solutions to that. For example, if the company expects that employees are dogfooding, perhaps testing out a beta in a specific timeframe, it could be culturally expected that devs might have broken machines during that timeframe. If was that taken into account in both the schedule as well as support paths, that would make things a bit easier. Honestly, though, even if that were the case, it would still be a hard sell for me. Quite simply: I don't like failing at my duties. I would need to be convinced that this was one of my duties, and I'm not sure how the company would pull that off. And that's ignoring other very practical concerns, such as the fact that a fair number of Canonical engineers only have one work machine. Having that machine down, depending on the definition of "down," can make it difficult to get support in the first place.

DreamFlasher 2y ago

Looks like 2024 won't be the year of the Linux Desktop after all :D

trm42 2y ago

Haven't used any Linux Distribution on Desktop so cannot comment that side or the installer but my home server has been running Ubuntu LTSes for over a decade. Last night I upgraded it to 24.04 LTS and I was really surprised how well and easy it was to upgrade. Couple of previous upgrades were a lot more hairier things breaking in surprisingly ways after upgrade but this time everything worked perfectly from the first reboot.

logicprog 2y ago
That experience actually aligns pretty well with the op, because my experience and the general consensus among Linux users that I've seen is that canonicals focusing almost all of its effort on making Ubuntu an excellent server experience because that's where the actual business is, and is letting the desktop sort of bit rot into oblivion.
hervem 2y ago
How did you upgrade it? As I know there is a blocker bug which isn't fixed yet.

nikisweeting 2y ago

Be careful if you use ZFS-on-root, make sure not to snapshot bpool or it will brick your system and require a complete reinstall. https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873 https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13873

renewiltord 2y ago

That sucks, man. Real pity. Had it installed just yesterday and it worked like a dream. But perhaps I will try Debian with nvidia proprietary drivers.

iowemoretohim 2y ago
If it worked like a dream for you why would this be an issue for you? You can easily create a edge cases for any distribution including Debian.
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Trying to avoid future problems.

sunshine_reggae 2y ago

FIX: "write Ubuntu ISO to USB flash with dd" (from the video comments)

iowemoretohim 2y ago
Or use Etcher, etc. AKA Properly create a bootable USB stick. This seems to me as FUD.

sliken 2y ago

I'be heard that a long standing issue with the test releases is still present in the release and can result in a unbootable system if you try to upgrade. Be warned that the do-release-upgrade -d might well make your system unbootable. More info at: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/04/dont-upgrade-to-ubuntu-24-04-yet https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/04/dont-upgrade-to-ubuntu-2... Or at least be prepared with a backup and a reinstall from scratch, or just switch to debian.

bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago

Debian.

popey 2y ago

First comment on the video - from the maker of the video - is " FIX (worked for me): write Ubuntu ISO to USB flash with dd" So, yeah. Okay. (Speaking as ex-Canonical, and still Ubuntu user. I upgraded my ThinkPad 2 days before release, and it was a catastrophe I had to manually un-fudge with the help of the apt maintainer. It was a packaging problem). My feeling on this particular release is that it was rushed out, and should probably have been kept back for a month or two. The xz and t64 (2038) issues occupied some unexpected time this cycle. Also, there used to be a dedicated QA lab which did a whole slew of automated tests. I don't believe that still exists. Also, also. The Ubuntu community has shrunk, which means fewer people doing QA. Also, also, also. The guy running the desktop team left the day after the release. Read into that what you will.