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> Optimus robot, self driving taxis, licensing self driving tech, training AI models I think it might be worth saying that: 1) Tesla has already accomplished

> Optimus robot, self driving taxis, licensing self driving tech, training AI models I think it might be worth saying that: 1) Tesla has already accomplished its stated mission of making EV cars mainstream. This was Musk's goal from the beginning, and (insofar it is true that he's interested in working on "world changing problems" and not in making money per se) the mission of Tesla as a driver of transformation is accomplished. 2) Musk might have decided since a while that Tesla has a desperate need to pivot, because being a mass producer of a mature technology in the West is not sustainable in the long run.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
> Musk might have decided since a while that Tesla has a desperate need to pivot, because being a mass producer of a mature technology in the West is not sustainable in the long run. I'm sorry just... what? Being in a position to sell products to a robust and demanding market is a bad thing? What in the Business Major brain are we saying here? And frankly calling their products "mature technology" feels like a stretch given Tesla is regularly stubbing it's toe on pretty benign design problems that numerous other automakers have had nailed down for decades.
- Breza 3y ago
  Well said. Tesla seems to struggle with things that other manufacturers find easy. The Model T had three floor pedals. The Cybertruck only has two.
- dawnerd 3y ago
  Yeah nothing about my Tesla is mature technology. Every update is a couple steps back. Every design revision is cost cutting and feature removal (in the name of simplicity of course). We still don’t have auto wipers that work.new still don’t have rear cross traffic alerts when backing up. The cars are laughably bad at parking themselves still. Tesla made a slightly polished MVP and stopped there.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    My former boss who owns one once had to have their service person come up to Green Bay from Chicago (about 3 hours) because his stupid door handles wouldn't extend and he was stuck at a grocery store.
  - grecy 3y ago
    > Yeah nothing about my Tesla is mature technology Do you honestly believe the battery, charging, inverter, motors and drive train are not mature tech?
- Timshel 3y ago
  The usual point is that to "justify" Tesla total valuation they can't just be an automaker.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    Almost seems like the valuation is the problem then, not being in the business of selling cars.
- throw310822 3y ago
  I mean, both of Musk's endeavours after Paypal, that is, Tesla and SpaceX- were incredibly high-risk bets with the goal of opening entirely new markets where there was none (ev cars and private space launches). At the time Musk was justifying his choice of investments with the idea of doing something new and important for humanity (transitioning out of fossil fuels and colonise other planets)- but in any case it's clear that he wanted to work on something cool and that his choices were not driven primarily by a rational money-making strategy. Fast-forward to 2024, while SpaceX is still delivering science fiction, Tesla is now an EV automaker among many- you can buy EV cars from any automaker and there is a deluge of cheap brands coming from China. Is Musk interested in owning and running a regular car company? I don't think so. I think he's desperate to find something else that is cool enough and incredibly high risk and high returns. Maybe using the capital and infrastructure from Tesla itself- and humanoid robotics seems a good candidate.
mingus88 3y ago
EVs are mainstream now? Try planning a trip from Seattle to Madison, WI and let me know how normal that feels for you. Try driving from Mt Shasta to Sacramento in 115 degree heat and see how many fast chargers are working on I-5 I don’t think I would call EVs mainstream until your average renter has access to a home charger. It simply will never be mainstream if people have to worry about when they’ll be able to get their next charge.
- imglorp 3y ago
  Getting there? EV and hybrid were 16% of US 2023 sales. All new apartment construction and shopping centers near us includes some EV chargers, so renters are slowly catching up. We're getting there. Until then it will be driven by homeowners and fleets.
  - Breza 3y ago
    This is an accurate take. I own my house, so GM paid to install my charger. If I were s renter, they would have given me a bunch of charging credits instead. Every year, I'm seeing more chargers. It's rare for me to worry about charging the car.
  - Jcampuzano2 3y ago
    As an apartment renter, unless they mandate or even completely subsidize existing apartment complexes of a certain size or larger (i.e 100+ residents or something along those lines) install EV charging it will remain an issue here. The vast majority of apartments still have no EV chargers and simply aren't moving to get them installed at all. I myself was in the market for an EV but would have trouble charging at my apartment. I messaged my apartment complex about installing EV support and whether they considered it and they basically sent a 1 sentence email which can be summarized as "lol no".
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      They're definitely a luxury good in areas where housing is expensive.
hwillis 3y ago
If either of those were true Musk would sell Tesla and/or step down so he could have cash and time to do something else. Something tells me there isn't a chance in hell of that happening.
cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
This is unbelievable. Insanely wealthy person is not interested in “making money per se”? Nobody amasses this wealth without being financially obsessed. No amount of ‘effective altruism’-esque “I need more money so I can do more amazing things” justifies it, especially when you put so much on the line to…buy a social network and as a vanity project. Elon Musk is not a God.
- kolinko 3y ago
  How many high net worth individuals do you know / have you met? Most of the ones I know consider money as a tool that can be used towards something, not as a goal by itself.
  - John23832 3y ago
    > Most of the ones I know consider money as a tool that can be used towards something, not as a goal by itself. And if you need a massive amount of money to achieve a goal, you obsess about money. Elon (ostensibly) isn't building soup kitchens and community gardens. > How many high net worth individuals do you know / have you met? If you don't think wealthy people obsess over money, I'd honestly wonder how many YOU have met. Not fretting over small amounts of money, or not being ridiculously frugal does not mean that wealthy people do not stress over money.
  - badpun 3y ago
    If they really used money towards that goal, wouldn't they cease to be HNWIs? The fact that they still holding large wealth kind of contradicts what they're saying.
- xNeil 3y ago
  It actually does seem to be correct, in that Musk doesn't exactly spend his money on homes or cars or yachts or other material possessions - it seems all his money goes to philanthropy and his businesses (hence the 'per se').
  - greedo 3y ago

ToucanLoucan 3y ago

> Musk might have decided since a while that Tesla has a desperate need to pivot, because being a mass producer of a mature technology in the West is not sustainable in the long run. I'm sorry just... what? Being in a position to sell products to a robust and demanding market is a bad thing? What in the Business Major brain are we saying here? And frankly calling their products "mature technology" feels like a stretch given Tesla is regularly stubbing it's toe on pretty benign design problems that numerous other automakers have had nailed down for decades.

Breza 3y ago
Well said. Tesla seems to struggle with things that other manufacturers find easy. The Model T had three floor pedals. The Cybertruck only has two.
dawnerd 3y ago
Yeah nothing about my Tesla is mature technology. Every update is a couple steps back. Every design revision is cost cutting and feature removal (in the name of simplicity of course). We still don’t have auto wipers that work.new still don’t have rear cross traffic alerts when backing up. The cars are laughably bad at parking themselves still. Tesla made a slightly polished MVP and stopped there.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  My former boss who owns one once had to have their service person come up to Green Bay from Chicago (about 3 hours) because his stupid door handles wouldn't extend and he was stuck at a grocery store.
- grecy 3y ago
  > Yeah nothing about my Tesla is mature technology Do you honestly believe the battery, charging, inverter, motors and drive train are not mature tech?
Timshel 3y ago
The usual point is that to "justify" Tesla total valuation they can't just be an automaker.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  Almost seems like the valuation is the problem then, not being in the business of selling cars.
throw310822 3y ago
I mean, both of Musk's endeavours after Paypal, that is, Tesla and SpaceX- were incredibly high-risk bets with the goal of opening entirely new markets where there was none (ev cars and private space launches). At the time Musk was justifying his choice of investments with the idea of doing something new and important for humanity (transitioning out of fossil fuels and colonise other planets)- but in any case it's clear that he wanted to work on something cool and that his choices were not driven primarily by a rational money-making strategy. Fast-forward to 2024, while SpaceX is still delivering science fiction, Tesla is now an EV automaker among many- you can buy EV cars from any automaker and there is a deluge of cheap brands coming from China. Is Musk interested in owning and running a regular car company? I don't think so. I think he's desperate to find something else that is cool enough and incredibly high risk and high returns. Maybe using the capital and infrastructure from Tesla itself- and humanoid robotics seems a good candidate.

mingus88 3y ago

EVs are mainstream now? Try planning a trip from Seattle to Madison, WI and let me know how normal that feels for you. Try driving from Mt Shasta to Sacramento in 115 degree heat and see how many fast chargers are working on I-5 I don’t think I would call EVs mainstream until your average renter has access to a home charger. It simply will never be mainstream if people have to worry about when they’ll be able to get their next charge.

imglorp 3y ago
Getting there? EV and hybrid were 16% of US 2023 sales. All new apartment construction and shopping centers near us includes some EV chargers, so renters are slowly catching up. We're getting there. Until then it will be driven by homeowners and fleets.
- Breza 3y ago
  This is an accurate take. I own my house, so GM paid to install my charger. If I were s renter, they would have given me a bunch of charging credits instead. Every year, I'm seeing more chargers. It's rare for me to worry about charging the car.
- Jcampuzano2 3y ago
  As an apartment renter, unless they mandate or even completely subsidize existing apartment complexes of a certain size or larger (i.e 100+ residents or something along those lines) install EV charging it will remain an issue here. The vast majority of apartments still have no EV chargers and simply aren't moving to get them installed at all. I myself was in the market for an EV but would have trouble charging at my apartment. I messaged my apartment complex about installing EV support and whether they considered it and they basically sent a 1 sentence email which can be summarized as "lol no".
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    They're definitely a luxury good in areas where housing is expensive.

hwillis 3y ago

If either of those were true Musk would sell Tesla and/or step down so he could have cash and time to do something else. Something tells me there isn't a chance in hell of that happening.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago

This is unbelievable. Insanely wealthy person is not interested in “making money per se”? Nobody amasses this wealth without being financially obsessed. No amount of ‘effective altruism’-esque “I need more money so I can do more amazing things” justifies it, especially when you put so much on the line to…buy a social network and as a vanity project. Elon Musk is not a God.

kolinko 3y ago
How many high net worth individuals do you know / have you met? Most of the ones I know consider money as a tool that can be used towards something, not as a goal by itself.
- John23832 3y ago
  > Most of the ones I know consider money as a tool that can be used towards something, not as a goal by itself. And if you need a massive amount of money to achieve a goal, you obsess about money. Elon (ostensibly) isn't building soup kitchens and community gardens. > How many high net worth individuals do you know / have you met? If you don't think wealthy people obsess over money, I'd honestly wonder how many YOU have met. Not fretting over small amounts of money, or not being ridiculously frugal does not mean that wealthy people do not stress over money.
- badpun 3y ago
  If they really used money towards that goal, wouldn't they cease to be HNWIs? The fact that they still holding large wealth kind of contradicts what they're saying.
xNeil 3y ago
It actually does seem to be correct, in that Musk doesn't exactly spend his money on homes or cars or yachts or other material possessions - it seems all his money goes to philanthropy and his businesses (hence the 'per se').
- greedo 3y ago