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Has anybody noticed that whenever the protests pop up. Major news outlets tend to spin them as some sort of haven for “anti-Semitism” or cite them as the “viole

by xyst 3y ago

Has anybody noticed that whenever the protests pop up. Major news outlets tend to spin them as some sort of haven for “anti-Semitism” or cite them as the “violent protests”. I have yet to see organizations (at least on the ground, in major press releases) cite anything that represents hate against the Jewish population. Only rhetoric I have heard is those protesting the horrific actions of the Israeli government/military and the US governments enabling of those actions. Horrific actions by the Israeli government so far (at least since the Hamas raid): indiscriminate bombing in Gaza, bombing of hospitals, many civilians impacted and from what I gather most are underage children. Some American-Israelis at these protests (some even young adults in college) keep repeating the rhetoric by the media as well. Have seen some students say these protests are rampant with anti-Semitic rants and that these protests “want to get rid of them [Jewish students]” Again, I have been to a few of these protests (especially the ones in TX) and have yet to see anything of this sort. I have unfortunately seen people sitting on lawns not resisting law enforcement get their faces smashed into the ground by state troopers. Is the Israeli political machine just very effective? Or am I the delusional one ignoring the obvious? If it’s the latter, please point me to evidence of pro-Palestine organizations supporting the violent actions of Hamas terrorists. I don’t want to see individuals that have no visible ties spouting bullshit. There should be a press release by the orgs or leaders of these orgs stating this as such. So far I have come up empty as far as credible sources.

slantedview 3y ago
> Has anybody noticed that whenever the protests pop up. Major news outlets tend to spin them as some sort of haven for “anti-Semitism” or cite them as the “violent protests”. Yes. The reason for this is that people who oppose the protests, and effectively support what officials at the UN are calling an ongoing genocide, cannot win any argument on its merits. So the only thing they can do is paint the protesters as antisemitic, even though many protesters are Jewish. It's pathetic but effective, for now.
the_gastropod 3y ago
This is how it always seems to go. A huge segment of Americans still refer to the George Floyd protests as "George Floyd Riots" that "burned down" cities. It's, obviously, a ridiculous characterization of an overwhelmingly peaceful nation-wide set of protests.
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  The Floyd riots did lead to several deaths and billions of dollars in damage, documentation of that is an internet search away. Completely different from the current round of protests against Israeli brutality (which, unlike "systemic racism", is actually real)
  - Willish42 3y ago
    > which, unlike "systemic racism", is actually real If you truly think the concept of systemic racism does not exist, your warped perspective is probably beyond saving. The term itself dates back to the 60s and has a long history of academic and real-world relevance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism With where political discourse in developed nations has gotten, I really shouldn't be surprised, but I'm still honestly a bit shocked that somebody with access to a computer and presumably an education compatible with working in technology and posting on HN actually doubts that systemic racism exists in a country that has centuries of slavery in its founding history and numerous statistically proven cases of disproportionate policing of certain races of individuals. What an asinine comment! I don't think being this willfully ignorant is helping your cause here
    - Georgelemental 3y ago
      > The term itself dates back to the 60s Systemic racism did exist in the 60s, of course. (One good empirical test: during the era of Jim Crow, many black people tried to pass as white so as to gain access to the opportunities that were denied to black people. Does this still happen today, or is the reverse more likely?) > statistically proven cases of disproportionate policing of certain races of individuals Not when you look at the actual data: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1903856116 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1903856116 (Yes, the article is retracted. If you read the correction and rectraction, you will see that the authors stand by their results, and retracted only due to political pressure/politically incorrect people citing the study.)
      - 3y ago
SpicyLemonZest 3y ago
> If it’s the latter, please point me to evidence of pro-Palestine organizations supporting the violent actions of Hamas terrorists. I don’t want to see individuals that have no visible ties spouting bullshit. There should be a press release by the orgs or leaders of these orgs stating this as such. The question is whether this is an unreasonably strong standard. Even Hamas themselves have not issued a clear official statement in support of their actions; their spokespeople variably claim that they did not commit any atrocities on October 7, or that the atrocities against civilians were collateral damage in a legitimate military operation.
- slantedview 3y ago
  These protests aren't about Hamas though. There are other protests about that, and surely those are valid. These protests are about Israel's campaign of what UN officials say is genocide. Most attempts to change the subject to Hamas are bad faith attempts to protect Israel from culpability.
  - Georgelemental 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - nsguy 3y ago
    UN officials don't say it's genocide and anyways they're not the arbiters of that claim. Changing the subject to Hamas is not bad faith. Hamas is the ruler of Gaza, was voted into power, and enjoys support of most Palestinians. It's impossible for Israel to "separate" its war on Hamas from the population within it resides. The ignoring of Hamas by the anti-Israel crowd is what's bad faith. Do you separate the Russians from Putin? Should we boycott Ukraine from attacking Russians and not fighting directly with Putin? Do you have any other realistic examples that support your idea that somehow we can ignore the topic of Hamas here? Are the anti-Israel protesters being clear about their stance on Hamas and terrorism?
    - defrost 3y ago
      > Hamas is the ruler of Gaza, was voted into power, and enjoys support of most Palestinians. Hamas was voted in 18 years ago with less than 45% of the vote on a platform of clean government and keeping peace with Israel based on the 1967 borders. Hamas today is not the Hamas that was voted in, very few Palestinians alive today voted for them.
dekhn 3y ago
the Israeli PR and propaganda machine is very effective. But I think some of the more extreme behavior (as you point out, very quickly citing anti-semitism) is starting to be recognized, and the overton window is shifting towards more skepticism of israeli claims. I suspect some of the most virulent statements being made by protesters are being made by what I call the professional protestor class- people who like to show up at protests and cause problems (my friend called them the "fuck shit up contingent") for fun.
- dralley 3y ago
  >the Israeli PR and propaganda machine is very effective. Vastly less effective than the competing one, IMO. There are people that still, to this day, think that Al-Ahli hospital was bombed by Israel and that hundreds of people were killed. It seems to be a widespread belief that Israel is primarily European-descended wheras in fact more than half of Israeli jews are Mizrahi - they were refugees from places like Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco. There are people that shout about globalizing the intifada without having any idea what those words mean.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - adhamsalama 3y ago
    Is there any evidence of the opposite, that it was bombed by Hamas, or do you simply choose the narrative that suits you?
    - dralley 3y ago
      Yes, actually. Lots of it, which has been in the open for more than 6 months. Thank you for demonstrating my point so clearly. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/26/gaza-findings-october-17-al-ahli-hospital-explosion https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/26/gaza-findings-october-17... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/briefing/gaza-hospital-explosion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/briefing/gaza-hospital-ex... https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-8bc239d2efe0cff3998b2154d9220a83 https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hos... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/24/al-ahli-hospital-us-intelligence/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/24/... I'd also like to point out that the online narrative in the first 24 hours was that the hospital was "destroyed" with "500 dead" but the pictures we eventually got showed a 6 inch deep dent in the parking lot about 2 feet across and a half dozen burnt cars, plus some blown out windows and shingles. Even setting aside attribution entirely, nearly every other aspect of what was initially reported was demonstratively false or implausible within a matter of hours. Behold, the "destroyed" hospital where "471" people died, the day after the explosion https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b86e8d6d4133d481c4877d845a149af7031e3660/0_105_6000_3600/master/6000.jpg?width=1900&dpr=1&s=none https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b86e8d6d4133d481c4877d845a149... Notably, the retractions and actual evidence never went as viral as the unsubstantiated claims.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nsguy 3y ago
Just one example: "Eby’s remarks on the encampment came after he and other politicians denounced an earlier demonstration in Vancouver where protesters chanted “long live Oct. 7,” praising that day’s attacks by Hamas on Israel." https://www.cheknews.ca/eby-deplores-most-hateful-speech-praising-hamas-attack-as-ubc-protest-camp-begins-1201591/ https://www.cheknews.ca/eby-deplores-most-hateful-speech-pra... https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-gets-carte-blanche-in-canada-to-glorify-hamas-massacre https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-get... I think Israel's PR machine is very ineffective. It's swamped by anti-Israeli PR. E.g. where do you get "bombing of hospitals"? How many hospitals in Gaza were bombed? Which hospitals specifically are they, what were the circumstances, what damage did they sustain?
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  > bombing of hospitals https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hospitals-destruction-investigation-intl-cmd/ https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hosp... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-images-reveal-israeli-destruction-of-hospitals-in-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-... https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-in-embattled-gaza-out-of-service-due-to-israeli-attacks/3020030 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-i... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-keeps-hitting-gaza-hospitals-amid-international-uproar https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-k... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hospitals-medical-system.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-isr... https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-leave-al-shifa-hospital-in-ruins--who-mission-reports https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-l...
  - nsguy 3y ago
    I briefly scanned through the links but they conflate "damaged", "crater near hospital close enough for fragments to hit hospital" and other unknowns. the WHO link which we can maybe take as authoritative does not refer to any bombed hospital. We all know there was a huge battle in Al Shifa where the IDF killed an arrested hundreds of Hamas operatives (and has published videos from their interrogations and videos from the battles going on inside the hospital). "A field hospital in the embattled Gaza Strip run by neighboring Jordan reportedly can no longer provide health care due to Israeli attacks and the disruption of access roads. The hospital in Gaza is out of service due to damage inflicted by Israeli attacks, as well as Israeli bombing of surrounding areas and the disruption of access roads, as reported on Jordan's official television channel on Saturday." from one of the articles does not mention the actual hospital was bombed. it says "damage due to attacks" (unclear) and "bombing of the surrounding areas" (which is not bombing a hospital).
AxEy 3y ago
Does this qualify? https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/ucb-police-seek-five-protesters-riot-shut-19368284.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/ucb-police-seek-... "The five people were part of a group of about 200 protesters, who on Feb. 26 broke down the door of Zellerbach Playhouse and smashed a window to prevent Israeli lawyer Ran Bar-Yoshafat from addressing a group of Jewish students. Danielle Sobkin, co-president of Bears for Israel, one of the campus groups who invited Bar-Yoshafat, said after the protest that members of the mob grabbed a student trying to attend the event, called him a “dirty Jew” and spat on him."
- khazhoux 3y ago
  5 hateful racist people in a group of 200. That’s not unusual.
  - CaptainFever 3y ago
    "If you're at a rally with Nazi chants and the folks with those chants are not ejected, you're at a Nazi rally."
  - weatherlite 3y ago
    5 violent people out of 200 is very unusual. In fact violence in general is quite unusual and isn't widely tolerated, most violent people end up in jail.
- xyst 3y ago
  5 people acting in mob mentality doesn’t exactly fit the bill of a whole organization sponsoring the hate crime. Seems more like smooth brain assholes that want to fuck it up for everyone. Which honestly every protest has at least a few. Are there are any orgs in UC Berkeley supporting these hateful actions? Are any of the 5 people leaders of the student orgs? Or local orgs in the area? So many unanswered questions. Too much speculation.
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
Obviously not all protesters are anti-semitic but you must be willfully ignorant to honestly believe that none of them are. For example, here are some signs that have been found in protests (you can find examples on google): - "from the river to the sea" -> implies the destruction of Israel - "keep the world clean" -> seems to imply some sort of "cleansing" of Jews - "by any means necessary" -> seems to condone violence against Jews I'm sure you can find other examples very easily. I will admit that I didn't see anything overtly anti-semitic from the Google protesters specifically. Of course, it seems they were fired for violating workplace rules, not their actual viewpoint.
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  > "from the river to the sea" -> implies the destruction of Israel "From the river to the sea" has been used to mean many things. At one point it was a Zionist slogan. Hamas uses it to imply horrible things, and maybe it's not the smartest move for protesters to use the same phrase, but that doesn't mean their intentions are nefarious, no more than Hindus using the swastika makes them Nazi
  - zeroonetwothree 3y ago
    It’s obviously being used in a very specific way. Your analogy is silly.
- khazhoux 3y ago
  Is someone actually claiming that none of them are anti-semitic? The pro-Hamas antisemites are in the tiny majority of the protesters.
  - zeroonetwothree 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - khazhoux 3y ago
      You should know after 13 years on Hacker News that "Are you incapable of reading?" is not an acceptable reply here.
hedora 3y ago
A lot of people are spreading a false equivalence between being antisemitic and protesting the slaughter of civilians and children. Does that count?
- khazhoux 3y ago
  This is very true. Still, I’m terribly disappointed how reticent that side is to strongly condemn Hamas and 10/7. Their message is not clean.
  - adhamsalama 3y ago
    The Onion really isn't satire. https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657 https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-usi...
- Shekelphile 3y ago
  Israel doesn't slaughter civilians. In fact, asymmetric tactics and terror attacks against civilians is constantly perpetrated by hamas (as evidenced on 10/7)
  - PieTime 3y ago
    Look up settlement activities, with armed settlers activity removing family often with the blessing of the IDF.
  - khazhoux 3y ago
    > Israel doesn't slaughter civilians It’s hard to square this statement against the 13-to-25,000 estimated (Assoc Press vs Al Jazeera) dead women and children in the last 6 months though. Just objectively speaking, that is a shocking number of civilian deaths even at the low end.
    - Shekelphile 3y ago
      What? No, it's quite easy to 'square' it actually. Civilian casualties are inevitable when hamas embeds itself into the civilian populace and forces them to stay in the positions they operate from. Did you have similar outrage when the Russian air force was dropping 1000lb dumb bombs on similarly densely populated cities in Syria from 2015-2017? I guarantee you a lot more civilians died needlessly in places like aleppo and palmyra than Israel has ever 'slaughtered'.
hirvi74 3y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazcVU_rNyQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazcVU_rNyQ (NSFW: Language)
- xyst 3y ago
  Mob mentality really brings out the worst in us. Still seems like mini groups of assholes lashing out on whoever with reckless abandon. The dog whistles were definitely fucked up. Although, what’s the deal with “Zionism”? Seems like the exact opposite of the extreme pro-Palestinian groups (ie, PLFP). The loudest ones in these videos tend to be associated with either extreme and polar opposites. But I don’t believe most Jewish and Palestinian people would fall into either of these groups. Just as the far right and far left in USA get all the attention on the news networks, social media, vods, your uncle that death scrolls on FB too long. In reality that doesn’t represent the true make up of America.
khazhoux 3y ago
It seems 99% of the protesters are there because of the 13-to-25,000 dead children and women, but the 1% that condone Hamas’s October attack make the news. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unicef-says-over-13000-children-killed-gaza-israel-offensive-2024-03-17/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unicef-says-over-1... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1/more-than-25000-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-us-defence-secretary https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1/more-than-25000-wome...
bitcurious 3y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/29/nyregion/college-protests-columbia-campus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/29/nyregion/college-protests... A fairly credible source discussing just this question. A pretty blatant example is a linked video of protestors intimidating three Jewish students while claiming that they are “zionists” without any evidence except the students’ Jewishness.
- defrost 3y ago
  Were these protestors the ones that were arrested holding a Passover seder in New York? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/not-like-other-passovers-hundreds-of-jewish-demonstrators-arrested-after-new-york-protest-seder https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/not-like-other... Or were these student protestors at Columbia? https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

by xyst 3y ago

slantedview 3y ago

> Has anybody noticed that whenever the protests pop up. Major news outlets tend to spin them as some sort of haven for “anti-Semitism” or cite them as the “violent protests”. Yes. The reason for this is that people who oppose the protests, and effectively support what officials at the UN are calling an ongoing genocide, cannot win any argument on its merits. So the only thing they can do is paint the protesters as antisemitic, even though many protesters are Jewish. It's pathetic but effective, for now.

the_gastropod 3y ago

This is how it always seems to go. A huge segment of Americans still refer to the George Floyd protests as "George Floyd Riots" that "burned down" cities. It's, obviously, a ridiculous characterization of an overwhelmingly peaceful nation-wide set of protests.

Georgelemental 3y ago
The Floyd riots did lead to several deaths and billions of dollars in damage, documentation of that is an internet search away. Completely different from the current round of protests against Israeli brutality (which, unlike "systemic racism", is actually real)
- Willish42 3y ago
  > which, unlike "systemic racism", is actually real If you truly think the concept of systemic racism does not exist, your warped perspective is probably beyond saving. The term itself dates back to the 60s and has a long history of academic and real-world relevance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism With where political discourse in developed nations has gotten, I really shouldn't be surprised, but I'm still honestly a bit shocked that somebody with access to a computer and presumably an education compatible with working in technology and posting on HN actually doubts that systemic racism exists in a country that has centuries of slavery in its founding history and numerous statistically proven cases of disproportionate policing of certain races of individuals. What an asinine comment! I don't think being this willfully ignorant is helping your cause here
  - Georgelemental 3y ago
    > The term itself dates back to the 60s Systemic racism did exist in the 60s, of course. (One good empirical test: during the era of Jim Crow, many black people tried to pass as white so as to gain access to the opportunities that were denied to black people. Does this still happen today, or is the reverse more likely?) > statistically proven cases of disproportionate policing of certain races of individuals Not when you look at the actual data: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1903856116 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1903856116 (Yes, the article is retracted. If you read the correction and rectraction, you will see that the authors stand by their results, and retracted only due to political pressure/politically incorrect people citing the study.)
    - 3y ago

SpicyLemonZest 3y ago

> If it’s the latter, please point me to evidence of pro-Palestine organizations supporting the violent actions of Hamas terrorists. I don’t want to see individuals that have no visible ties spouting bullshit. There should be a press release by the orgs or leaders of these orgs stating this as such. The question is whether this is an unreasonably strong standard. Even Hamas themselves have not issued a clear official statement in support of their actions; their spokespeople variably claim that they did not commit any atrocities on October 7, or that the atrocities against civilians were collateral damage in a legitimate military operation.

slantedview 3y ago
These protests aren't about Hamas though. There are other protests about that, and surely those are valid. These protests are about Israel's campaign of what UN officials say is genocide. Most attempts to change the subject to Hamas are bad faith attempts to protect Israel from culpability.
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  [flagged]
- nsguy 3y ago
  UN officials don't say it's genocide and anyways they're not the arbiters of that claim. Changing the subject to Hamas is not bad faith. Hamas is the ruler of Gaza, was voted into power, and enjoys support of most Palestinians. It's impossible for Israel to "separate" its war on Hamas from the population within it resides. The ignoring of Hamas by the anti-Israel crowd is what's bad faith. Do you separate the Russians from Putin? Should we boycott Ukraine from attacking Russians and not fighting directly with Putin? Do you have any other realistic examples that support your idea that somehow we can ignore the topic of Hamas here? Are the anti-Israel protesters being clear about their stance on Hamas and terrorism?
  - defrost 3y ago
    > Hamas is the ruler of Gaza, was voted into power, and enjoys support of most Palestinians. Hamas was voted in 18 years ago with less than 45% of the vote on a platform of clean government and keeping peace with Israel based on the 1967 borders. Hamas today is not the Hamas that was voted in, very few Palestinians alive today voted for them.

dekhn 3y ago

the Israeli PR and propaganda machine is very effective. But I think some of the more extreme behavior (as you point out, very quickly citing anti-semitism) is starting to be recognized, and the overton window is shifting towards more skepticism of israeli claims. I suspect some of the most virulent statements being made by protesters are being made by what I call the professional protestor class- people who like to show up at protests and cause problems (my friend called them the "fuck shit up contingent") for fun.

dralley 3y ago
>the Israeli PR and propaganda machine is very effective. Vastly less effective than the competing one, IMO. There are people that still, to this day, think that Al-Ahli hospital was bombed by Israel and that hundreds of people were killed. It seems to be a widespread belief that Israel is primarily European-descended wheras in fact more than half of Israeli jews are Mizrahi - they were refugees from places like Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco. There are people that shout about globalizing the intifada without having any idea what those words mean.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- adhamsalama 3y ago
  Is there any evidence of the opposite, that it was bombed by Hamas, or do you simply choose the narrative that suits you?
  - dralley 3y ago
    Yes, actually. Lots of it, which has been in the open for more than 6 months. Thank you for demonstrating my point so clearly. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/26/gaza-findings-october-17-al-ahli-hospital-explosion https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/26/gaza-findings-october-17... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/briefing/gaza-hospital-explosion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/briefing/gaza-hospital-ex... https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-8bc239d2efe0cff3998b2154d9220a83 https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hos... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/24/al-ahli-hospital-us-intelligence/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/24/... I'd also like to point out that the online narrative in the first 24 hours was that the hospital was "destroyed" with "500 dead" but the pictures we eventually got showed a 6 inch deep dent in the parking lot about 2 feet across and a half dozen burnt cars, plus some blown out windows and shingles. Even setting aside attribution entirely, nearly every other aspect of what was initially reported was demonstratively false or implausible within a matter of hours. Behold, the "destroyed" hospital where "471" people died, the day after the explosion https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b86e8d6d4133d481c4877d845a149af7031e3660/0_105_6000_3600/master/6000.jpg?width=1900&dpr=1&s=none https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b86e8d6d4133d481c4877d845a149... Notably, the retractions and actual evidence never went as viral as the unsubstantiated claims.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nsguy 3y ago

Just one example: "Eby’s remarks on the encampment came after he and other politicians denounced an earlier demonstration in Vancouver where protesters chanted “long live Oct. 7,” praising that day’s attacks by Hamas on Israel." https://www.cheknews.ca/eby-deplores-most-hateful-speech-praising-hamas-attack-as-ubc-protest-camp-begins-1201591/ https://www.cheknews.ca/eby-deplores-most-hateful-speech-pra... https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-gets-carte-blanche-in-canada-to-glorify-hamas-massacre https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-get... I think Israel's PR machine is very ineffective. It's swamped by anti-Israeli PR. E.g. where do you get "bombing of hospitals"? How many hospitals in Gaza were bombed? Which hospitals specifically are they, what were the circumstances, what damage did they sustain?

Georgelemental 3y ago
> bombing of hospitals https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hospitals-destruction-investigation-intl-cmd/ https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/01/middleeast/gaza-hosp... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-images-reveal-israeli-destruction-of-hospitals-in-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-... https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-in-embattled-gaza-out-of-service-due-to-israeli-attacks/3020030 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/jordan-field-hospital-i... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-keeps-hitting-gaza-hospitals-amid-international-uproar https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/18/bloodbath-israel-k... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hospitals-medical-system.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/world/middleeast/gaza-isr... https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-leave-al-shifa-hospital-in-ruins--who-mission-reports https://www.who.int/news/item/06-04-2024-six-months-of-war-l...
- nsguy 3y ago
  I briefly scanned through the links but they conflate "damaged", "crater near hospital close enough for fragments to hit hospital" and other unknowns. the WHO link which we can maybe take as authoritative does not refer to any bombed hospital. We all know there was a huge battle in Al Shifa where the IDF killed an arrested hundreds of Hamas operatives (and has published videos from their interrogations and videos from the battles going on inside the hospital). "A field hospital in the embattled Gaza Strip run by neighboring Jordan reportedly can no longer provide health care due to Israeli attacks and the disruption of access roads. The hospital in Gaza is out of service due to damage inflicted by Israeli attacks, as well as Israeli bombing of surrounding areas and the disruption of access roads, as reported on Jordan's official television channel on Saturday." from one of the articles does not mention the actual hospital was bombed. it says "damage due to attacks" (unclear) and "bombing of the surrounding areas" (which is not bombing a hospital).

AxEy 3y ago

Does this qualify? https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/ucb-police-seek-five-protesters-riot-shut-19368284.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/ucb-police-seek-... "The five people were part of a group of about 200 protesters, who on Feb. 26 broke down the door of Zellerbach Playhouse and smashed a window to prevent Israeli lawyer Ran Bar-Yoshafat from addressing a group of Jewish students. Danielle Sobkin, co-president of Bears for Israel, one of the campus groups who invited Bar-Yoshafat, said after the protest that members of the mob grabbed a student trying to attend the event, called him a “dirty Jew” and spat on him."

khazhoux 3y ago
5 hateful racist people in a group of 200. That’s not unusual.
- CaptainFever 3y ago
  "If you're at a rally with Nazi chants and the folks with those chants are not ejected, you're at a Nazi rally."
- weatherlite 3y ago
  5 violent people out of 200 is very unusual. In fact violence in general is quite unusual and isn't widely tolerated, most violent people end up in jail.
xyst 3y ago
5 people acting in mob mentality doesn’t exactly fit the bill of a whole organization sponsoring the hate crime. Seems more like smooth brain assholes that want to fuck it up for everyone. Which honestly every protest has at least a few. Are there are any orgs in UC Berkeley supporting these hateful actions? Are any of the 5 people leaders of the student orgs? Or local orgs in the area? So many unanswered questions. Too much speculation.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

Obviously not all protesters are anti-semitic but you must be willfully ignorant to honestly believe that none of them are. For example, here are some signs that have been found in protests (you can find examples on google): - "from the river to the sea" -> implies the destruction of Israel - "keep the world clean" -> seems to imply some sort of "cleansing" of Jews - "by any means necessary" -> seems to condone violence against Jews I'm sure you can find other examples very easily. I will admit that I didn't see anything overtly anti-semitic from the Google protesters specifically. Of course, it seems they were fired for violating workplace rules, not their actual viewpoint.

Georgelemental 3y ago
> "from the river to the sea" -> implies the destruction of Israel "From the river to the sea" has been used to mean many things. At one point it was a Zionist slogan. Hamas uses it to imply horrible things, and maybe it's not the smartest move for protesters to use the same phrase, but that doesn't mean their intentions are nefarious, no more than Hindus using the swastika makes them Nazi
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  It’s obviously being used in a very specific way. Your analogy is silly.
khazhoux 3y ago
Is someone actually claiming that none of them are anti-semitic? The pro-Hamas antisemites are in the tiny majority of the protesters.
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - khazhoux 3y ago
    You should know after 13 years on Hacker News that "Are you incapable of reading?" is not an acceptable reply here.

hedora 3y ago

A lot of people are spreading a false equivalence between being antisemitic and protesting the slaughter of civilians and children. Does that count?

khazhoux 3y ago
This is very true. Still, I’m terribly disappointed how reticent that side is to strongly condemn Hamas and 10/7. Their message is not clean.
- adhamsalama 3y ago
  The Onion really isn't satire. https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657 https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-usi...
Shekelphile 3y ago
Israel doesn't slaughter civilians. In fact, asymmetric tactics and terror attacks against civilians is constantly perpetrated by hamas (as evidenced on 10/7)
- PieTime 3y ago
  Look up settlement activities, with armed settlers activity removing family often with the blessing of the IDF.
- khazhoux 3y ago
  > Israel doesn't slaughter civilians It’s hard to square this statement against the 13-to-25,000 estimated (Assoc Press vs Al Jazeera) dead women and children in the last 6 months though. Just objectively speaking, that is a shocking number of civilian deaths even at the low end.
  - Shekelphile 3y ago
    What? No, it's quite easy to 'square' it actually. Civilian casualties are inevitable when hamas embeds itself into the civilian populace and forces them to stay in the positions they operate from. Did you have similar outrage when the Russian air force was dropping 1000lb dumb bombs on similarly densely populated cities in Syria from 2015-2017? I guarantee you a lot more civilians died needlessly in places like aleppo and palmyra than Israel has ever 'slaughtered'.

hirvi74 3y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazcVU_rNyQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zazcVU_rNyQ (NSFW: Language)

xyst 3y ago
Mob mentality really brings out the worst in us. Still seems like mini groups of assholes lashing out on whoever with reckless abandon. The dog whistles were definitely fucked up. Although, what’s the deal with “Zionism”? Seems like the exact opposite of the extreme pro-Palestinian groups (ie, PLFP). The loudest ones in these videos tend to be associated with either extreme and polar opposites. But I don’t believe most Jewish and Palestinian people would fall into either of these groups. Just as the far right and far left in USA get all the attention on the news networks, social media, vods, your uncle that death scrolls on FB too long. In reality that doesn’t represent the true make up of America.

khazhoux 3y ago

It seems 99% of the protesters are there because of the 13-to-25,000 dead children and women, but the 1% that condone Hamas’s October attack make the news. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unicef-says-over-13000-children-killed-gaza-israel-offensive-2024-03-17/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unicef-says-over-1... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1/more-than-25000-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza-us-defence-secretary https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1/more-than-25000-wome...

bitcurious 3y ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/29/nyregion/college-protests-columbia-campus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/29/nyregion/college-protests... A fairly credible source discussing just this question. A pretty blatant example is a linked video of protestors intimidating three Jewish students while claiming that they are “zionists” without any evidence except the students’ Jewishness.

defrost 3y ago
Were these protestors the ones that were arrested holding a Passover seder in New York? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/not-like-other-passovers-hundreds-of-jewish-demonstrators-arrested-after-new-york-protest-seder https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/not-like-other... Or were these student protestors at Columbia? https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia