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Overall, this seems great. However... > [...] by default it will tint your terminal background in a reddish tone while you are operating with elevated privile

Overall, this seems great. However... > [...] by default it will tint your terminal background in a reddish tone while you are operating with elevated privileges ?!! ouch ... seems orthogonal to the actual important parts. Disclaimer: I didn't try it.

NekkoDroid 3y ago
I tried it a bit ago (when it was still called uid0, pre-release), I also wasn't a fan of the tinting. I like the intent behind it, but some terminals already tint the header color when running sudo, I haven't tested if its done specifically for sudo or if its in a more generic way that could handle this as well.
- Karellen 3y ago
  > I also wasn't a fan of the tinting. From the linked mastodon thread: > For example, by default it will tint your terminal background in a reddish tone while you are operating with elevated privileges. That is supposed to act as a friendly reminder that you haven't given up the privileges yet, and marks the output of all commands that ran with privileges appropriately. (If you don't like this, you can easily turn it off via the --background= switch). (emphasis mine)
  - gh02t 3y ago
    It was a bit unclear to me from the thread, is there a persistent configuration option for this? I like the idea of tinting the terminal, but I also want to be able to turn it off with a global config option rather than having to type out a --background flag every invocation.
    - zamadatix 3y ago
      Aliasing the command as the command + your default arguments is the easiest general solution to this kind of problem. I'm not sure if there is a "systemd way" to permanently set it though.
      - gh02t 3y ago
        True, I was thinking a simple environment variable or systemd configurable would be fine but I guess an alias is a good idea.
      - tolciho 3y ago
        I accidentally compile color support out of st, or set xterm*colorMode:false to avoid seeing the backside of a unicorn randomly rubbed all over the terminal, on account of git and other wares being bad at their inability to not spew color codes. A sensible default would be to set no colors, in the event that the colors are unreadable (due to colorblindness, etc) or distracting, but that ship sailed. Most of my vim config on RedHat linux was disabling wacky vendorisms, and back when I used linux I did have a "special terminal" for some NVIDIA installer that mandated colors to be usable. Maybe the terminal title was set to Fisher-Price, maybe not.
        shrimp_emoji 3y ago
        Dang. I wish I had the autism to bristle at colors. Think about all the lost hours agonizing over themes! Not feeling the agonizing tension between the fact that cool-retro-term made your terminal into an awesome monochrome CRT but that it's monochrome green so your syntax highlighting is all messed up! > back when I used linux What do you use now? :0 BSD? Plan 9???
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    I think it's more that the default seems backwards than the lack of ability to change it.
    - dsr_ 3y ago
      It's three things: * here is a feature which we are defaulting to on * there's no persistent config for it * we know better than you do about your preferences
      - zamadatix 3y ago
        "Defaulting to on" is just a symlink to an existing binary so that's not really much a problem.
        gpm 3y ago
        A symlink to a binary that I'm going to pass a password to seems like a security bug waiting to happen (just in the manner that any complexity around privilege escalation is a bad idea).
  - deadbunny 3y ago
    I for one love to type out 13 extra characters to a 4 character command to disable dumb choices by the developer. On a more serious note, I wonder what random ASCII escape sequences we can send.
    - BenjiWiebe 3y ago
      'alias' is your friend.
      - deadbunny 3y ago
        I shouldn't need to alias behaviour that violates the principle of least surprise on every single machine I need to run elevated commands on.
        shrimp_emoji 3y ago
        Eh. `alias grep='grep --color=auto'` `alias ls='ls --color=auto'` It's canon.
    - Karellen 3y ago
      > I for one love to type out 13 extra characters FWIW, systemd is normally pretty good at providing autocomplete suggestions, so even if you don't want to set up an alias you'll probably just have to type `--b<TAB> ` to set it. > I wonder what random ASCII escape sequences we can send. According to the man page source[0]: > The color specified should be an ANSI X3.64 SGR background color, i.e. strings such as `40`, `41`, …, `47`, `48;2;…`, `48;5;…` and a link to the relevant Wikipedia page[1]. Given systemd's generally decent track record wrt defects and security issues, and the simplicity of valid colour values, I expect there's a fairly robust parameter verifier in there. In fact, given the focus on starting the elevated command in a highly controlled environment, I'd expect the colour codes to be output to the originating terminal, not forwarded to the secure pty. That way, the only thing malformed escapes can affect is your own process, which you already have full control over anyway. (Happy to be shown if that's a mistaken expectation though.) [0] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/main/man/run0.xml https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/main/man/run0.xml [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#SGR_(Select_Graphic_Rendition)_parameters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#SGR_(Select_G...
- withinboredom 3y ago
  I can think of a number of things this tinting would break.
  - lupire 3y ago
    Can you name any?
    - dsr_ 3y ago
      The user's choice of color schemes.
    - shiomiru 3y ago
      If the program you're running prints red text, then you get red bgcolor with red fgcolor. Good luck reading that. (Also, users with the wrong color scheme get that experience by default. Though that is a niche use case enough that I'd be surprised if systemd devs cared about it.)
    - withinboredom 3y ago
      Containers run with a tty attached but no console on the other end and then trying to read the logs, for starters. Additionally, as mentioned, conflicts with the user's color scheme or even the program's. Further, it's possible to do this without the help of run0, so I suspect users already doing that are going to get their colors messed up and be annoyed. For example, prod machines are usually red, and running as root on a prod machine is royal purple. If this is used, seeing a red background instead of a purple one is likely non-desirable.
    - snvzz 3y ago
      XMODEM and the like expect the terminal stream to not have garbage added by e.g. run0. The terminal line should be clean between XMODEM at the terminal emulator and at the client end.
      - throwaway7356 3y ago
        Is xmodem still used outside of computer museums (including private computer museums)?
bityard 3y ago
This is a perfect example of a choice that a developer makes to suit his/her personal preference and environment, believing that everyone does (or should) use their computer the same way. Which is sadly becoming a more common trend. I like the idea, but I don't think it should be on by default. The rest of us have just used root-specific shell prompts for the last few decades or so.
- TZubiri 3y ago
  It's fine. Not every software needs to be infinitely configurable and open source just in case the configurations don't cover the needs of all. We need opinionated software, if you don't want to make any choice for me, you can't even give me an assembly editor for fear of forcing your CPU arch of choice.
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    Counterpoint: GNOME and the modern GTK framework (I needn't say more.)
    - yoyohello13 3y ago
      Gnome is great if you're willing to do things their way. I Like Gnome a lot actually.
      - flaptrap 3y ago
        Gnome's UI peaked at 2.32. Find out how the users operate and implement so users can work efficiently. Don't make changes just to make your mark or to make users work on the desktop like they see on a cell phone. That is so basic.
        MadnessASAP 3y ago
        I have no idea why Gnome keeps on insisting on breaking expectations. From the shell as a whole to the widgets and even the window titlebars they seem to insist on being different for the sake of being different.
whalesalad 3y ago
This is a thing in certain environments. I don’t mind it.
sfink 3y ago
Yeah, that's the part that stuck out for me. "sudo is bad because it does all these things it shouldn't do instead of just the one thing it's for and nothing else. My tool is good because it does just the one thing it's for — plus this other random thing because I think it's cool."

NekkoDroid 3y ago

I tried it a bit ago (when it was still called uid0, pre-release), I also wasn't a fan of the tinting. I like the intent behind it, but some terminals already tint the header color when running sudo, I haven't tested if its done specifically for sudo or if its in a more generic way that could handle this as well.

Karellen 3y ago
> I also wasn't a fan of the tinting. From the linked mastodon thread: > For example, by default it will tint your terminal background in a reddish tone while you are operating with elevated privileges. That is supposed to act as a friendly reminder that you haven't given up the privileges yet, and marks the output of all commands that ran with privileges appropriately. (If you don't like this, you can easily turn it off via the --background= switch). (emphasis mine)
- gh02t 3y ago
  It was a bit unclear to me from the thread, is there a persistent configuration option for this? I like the idea of tinting the terminal, but I also want to be able to turn it off with a global config option rather than having to type out a --background flag every invocation.
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    Aliasing the command as the command + your default arguments is the easiest general solution to this kind of problem. I'm not sure if there is a "systemd way" to permanently set it though.
    - gh02t 3y ago
      True, I was thinking a simple environment variable or systemd configurable would be fine but I guess an alias is a good idea.
    - tolciho 3y ago
      I accidentally compile color support out of st, or set xterm*colorMode:false to avoid seeing the backside of a unicorn randomly rubbed all over the terminal, on account of git and other wares being bad at their inability to not spew color codes. A sensible default would be to set no colors, in the event that the colors are unreadable (due to colorblindness, etc) or distracting, but that ship sailed. Most of my vim config on RedHat linux was disabling wacky vendorisms, and back when I used linux I did have a "special terminal" for some NVIDIA installer that mandated colors to be usable. Maybe the terminal title was set to Fisher-Price, maybe not.
      - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
        Dang. I wish I had the autism to bristle at colors. Think about all the lost hours agonizing over themes! Not feeling the agonizing tension between the fact that cool-retro-term made your terminal into an awesome monochrome CRT but that it's monochrome green so your syntax highlighting is all messed up! > back when I used linux What do you use now? :0 BSD? Plan 9???
- zamadatix 3y ago
  I think it's more that the default seems backwards than the lack of ability to change it.
  - dsr_ 3y ago
    It's three things: * here is a feature which we are defaulting to on * there's no persistent config for it * we know better than you do about your preferences
    - zamadatix 3y ago
      "Defaulting to on" is just a symlink to an existing binary so that's not really much a problem.
      - gpm 3y ago
        A symlink to a binary that I'm going to pass a password to seems like a security bug waiting to happen (just in the manner that any complexity around privilege escalation is a bad idea).
- deadbunny 3y ago
  I for one love to type out 13 extra characters to a 4 character command to disable dumb choices by the developer. On a more serious note, I wonder what random ASCII escape sequences we can send.
  - BenjiWiebe 3y ago
    'alias' is your friend.
    - deadbunny 3y ago
      I shouldn't need to alias behaviour that violates the principle of least surprise on every single machine I need to run elevated commands on.
      - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
        Eh. `alias grep='grep --color=auto'` `alias ls='ls --color=auto'` It's canon.
  - Karellen 3y ago
    > I for one love to type out 13 extra characters FWIW, systemd is normally pretty good at providing autocomplete suggestions, so even if you don't want to set up an alias you'll probably just have to type `--b<TAB> ` to set it. > I wonder what random ASCII escape sequences we can send. According to the man page source[0]: > The color specified should be an ANSI X3.64 SGR background color, i.e. strings such as `40`, `41`, …, `47`, `48;2;…`, `48;5;…` and a link to the relevant Wikipedia page[1]. Given systemd's generally decent track record wrt defects and security issues, and the simplicity of valid colour values, I expect there's a fairly robust parameter verifier in there. In fact, given the focus on starting the elevated command in a highly controlled environment, I'd expect the colour codes to be output to the originating terminal, not forwarded to the secure pty. That way, the only thing malformed escapes can affect is your own process, which you already have full control over anyway. (Happy to be shown if that's a mistaken expectation though.) [0] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/main/man/run0.xml https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/main/man/run0.xml [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#SGR_(Select_Graphic_Rendition)_parameters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#SGR_(Select_G...
withinboredom 3y ago
I can think of a number of things this tinting would break.
- lupire 3y ago
  Can you name any?
  - dsr_ 3y ago
    The user's choice of color schemes.
  - shiomiru 3y ago
    If the program you're running prints red text, then you get red bgcolor with red fgcolor. Good luck reading that. (Also, users with the wrong color scheme get that experience by default. Though that is a niche use case enough that I'd be surprised if systemd devs cared about it.)
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    Containers run with a tty attached but no console on the other end and then trying to read the logs, for starters. Additionally, as mentioned, conflicts with the user's color scheme or even the program's. Further, it's possible to do this without the help of run0, so I suspect users already doing that are going to get their colors messed up and be annoyed. For example, prod machines are usually red, and running as root on a prod machine is royal purple. If this is used, seeing a red background instead of a purple one is likely non-desirable.
  - snvzz 3y ago
    XMODEM and the like expect the terminal stream to not have garbage added by e.g. run0. The terminal line should be clean between XMODEM at the terminal emulator and at the client end.
    - throwaway7356 3y ago
      Is xmodem still used outside of computer museums (including private computer museums)?

bityard 3y ago

This is a perfect example of a choice that a developer makes to suit his/her personal preference and environment, believing that everyone does (or should) use their computer the same way. Which is sadly becoming a more common trend. I like the idea, but I don't think it should be on by default. The rest of us have just used root-specific shell prompts for the last few decades or so.

TZubiri 3y ago
It's fine. Not every software needs to be infinitely configurable and open source just in case the configurations don't cover the needs of all. We need opinionated software, if you don't want to make any choice for me, you can't even give me an assembly editor for fear of forcing your CPU arch of choice.
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  Counterpoint: GNOME and the modern GTK framework (I needn't say more.)
  - yoyohello13 3y ago
    Gnome is great if you're willing to do things their way. I Like Gnome a lot actually.
    - flaptrap 3y ago
      Gnome's UI peaked at 2.32. Find out how the users operate and implement so users can work efficiently. Don't make changes just to make your mark or to make users work on the desktop like they see on a cell phone. That is so basic.
      - MadnessASAP 3y ago
        I have no idea why Gnome keeps on insisting on breaking expectations. From the shell as a whole to the widgets and even the window titlebars they seem to insist on being different for the sake of being different.

whalesalad 3y ago

This is a thing in certain environments. I don’t mind it.

sfink 3y ago

Yeah, that's the part that stuck out for me. "sudo is bad because it does all these things it shouldn't do instead of just the one thing it's for and nothing else. My tool is good because it does just the one thing it's for — plus this other random thing because I think it's cool."