4 ms·

Young generations have prevailed during times of famine, conquest from outside forces, cataclysmic events like volcanos and ice ages, and populating new territo

Young generations have prevailed during times of famine, conquest from outside forces, cataclysmic events like volcanos and ice ages, and populating new territories. I wonder what's different?

nextworddev 2y ago
Internet is distracting them
- deodar 2y ago
  Not sure whether distracting is the right word however the internet is likely involved. Constant connectivity and engagement maximizing algorithms ensure they are exposed to the horrors of the world daily. It is difficult to imagine the existential angst this would be creating in their young minds. I believe this is the "leaded gasoline" of our times. Something we will eventually correct for but at great cost to a generation of young people.
- xeromal 2y ago
  Modern day bread and games.
riku_iki 2y ago
why did you decide they prevailed during those events? There usually was some ruling class(kings, feudals) who were fine while poor were dying in wars and famines regardless they are young or not.
nostrademons 2y ago
I was thinking about this recently, and came to the conclusion that the generations from WW2 to Gen-X constructed a very tightly-optimized society - with no room for their grandchildren in it. Basically the economy today is a complex system that is overconstrained: there is no way to change it without the whole thing coming down, and yet it was also built for a population level that was less than half what we have now. As a result, all of the excess 1987+ births literally have nowhere to go in the society we have now, and they just float around as disaffected youth or never leave their parents' basement. Think of all the problems facing young people today, and envision the logical solution for them. Housing: why don't young underhoused people simply pick up a hammer, saw, and some wood and build themselves a house? If you do this in any major metropolitan area today, you will get a stop-work order and a zillion zoning and building code violations. Health care: if somebody is sick, go read a few textbooks and do what they say you should do. If you do this, you'll be arrested for practicing medicine without a license, and the number of residencies (and hence new licenses granted) is strictly capped to keep wages high. Aviation: with how dysfunctional Boeing is, why haven't competitors arisen? Because building a plane is so tightly regulated that a startup that can satisfy the regulations would basically look like Boeing, have roughly the same cost structure, and move as slowly. The one exception that lucky Millennials got into was tech, which was notoriously unregulated until about 5 years ago. That unregulation meant there was space for new people to enter the industry, and for new firms to take over other parts of the economy. Everybody else has had to fight for the limited new positions that open up in industries whose structure has already been decided.
- xeromal 2y ago
  I really appreciate this point and I've had similar thoughts. A lot of people nowadays point back to the peak of American civilization post world war II and think or expect that that will continue but like you said it was tightly optimized and I think a flash in the pan mostly from Europe being completely destroyed while the United States remained unscathed causing a massive boon. What I haven't considered are your points about everything being overly regulated to the point that no one can run a business or build their own home without so much BS and red tape that they are guaranteed failure. College was the entry point into success but even that is slowly collapsing. I don't know much about medieval Europe but my basic understanding makes me think that we live in a similar space where you don't really pick your job, you just work for the local Lord who happens to be a corporation that pays you enough to survive. I don't think it's as big as it used to be, but I think a lot of people bet their hopes and dreams on moonshots such as becoming streamers or athletes but that's just another way to keep everyone placated. I appreciate your comment
- sublinear 2y ago
  > generations from WW2 to Gen-X constructed a very tightly-optimized society - with no room for their grandchildren in it Not sure if I agree or disagree. Maybe you can elaborate on this specifically. The rest of your comment seems to agree with my opinion that a ton of red tape killed opportunities previous generations had. This is fundamentally a political issue, not an economic one.
  - nostrademons 2y ago
    I pick on regulation because it's the most universal example, but the fundamental problem is overconstraint. When a system gets too complex, you can't change any of it without giving up other desirable properties, even if the new properties you're trying to attain are more important than the properties you give up. In terms of how we build our cities, for example, many of them are designed for a set number of people and then try to optimize quality of life for all those people. You can perhaps accommodate a 10% increase in citizens by building in marginal areas, upzoning parts, crowding, etc. But accommodating a 2x+ increase requires a radical revision of fundamental infrastructure. Your sewer system needs to be dug up and replaced with larger pipes. Your transit system needs to move from single-lane roads to either boulevards or mass public transit. Your educational system needs new schools, which generate new drop-offs, which further increases the strain on the transit system. Some people's property needs to be eminent domained. Some people's views will be blocked. Certainly the character of the city is going to change. All of this generates political opposition, so it definitely is a political issue in addition to an economic one. Democratic (in the political-system sense, not the political-party sense) voters pass regulations so that it doesn't happen, looking out for their own interests. But the consequence of those regulations is that growth, renewal, and innovation becomes impossible. The system is overconstrained, and cannot adapt to either large growth in population or large environmental changes. Any attempt to re-adapt it to the new realities of the world require that you throw away large portions, because all of the systems are interconnected and tightly optimized.
psyants 2y ago
They’re aware earlier in life than any prior generation ever that the economy of real stuff works on physical statistics and not the memes, contrived rhetoric of history propagated by word of mouth? Since the 2000s the decline in religious convictions has removed an obligation to a shared “big picture” sense of agency. Cut us open, no words, just mush and goo being crackled at by field effects. Thousands of years of communal “buzz” in our biology, absence of old routines no longer exists for the younger generations whose parents bailed in the late 90s-00s The only shared purpose is ameliorate each other’s economic anxiety by making sure there’s enough food and TP on shelves. The dumb rhetorical games are pointless given modern science. Debate the minutiae all you want about what it means big picture but ground truth is enough food, shelter, and healthcare, social life, is all most people want Keep in mind “disconnection” here means “from social routines of the recent past.” The recent past was disconnected from its recent past, and so on. We don’t speak Latin anymore. The 1900s only exist as a hallucination for the people who experienced it.
tsol 2y ago
They prayed to God that they could adapt to nature. Today people have no faith to turn to, and the system they are in is an artifical maze meant to keep them distracted. There's no hope in the modern scenario.
imtringued 2y ago
They are unwanted. In all of those scenarios you mentioned, simply working more and harder contributes to the solution.

Young generations have prevailed during times of famine, conquest from outside forces, cataclysmic events like volcanos and ice ages, and populating new territories. I wonder what's different?

nextworddev 2y ago

Internet is distracting them

deodar 2y ago
Not sure whether distracting is the right word however the internet is likely involved. Constant connectivity and engagement maximizing algorithms ensure they are exposed to the horrors of the world daily. It is difficult to imagine the existential angst this would be creating in their young minds. I believe this is the "leaded gasoline" of our times. Something we will eventually correct for but at great cost to a generation of young people.
xeromal 2y ago
Modern day bread and games.

riku_iki 2y ago

why did you decide they prevailed during those events? There usually was some ruling class(kings, feudals) who were fine while poor were dying in wars and famines regardless they are young or not.

nostrademons 2y ago

I was thinking about this recently, and came to the conclusion that the generations from WW2 to Gen-X constructed a very tightly-optimized society - with no room for their grandchildren in it. Basically the economy today is a complex system that is overconstrained: there is no way to change it without the whole thing coming down, and yet it was also built for a population level that was less than half what we have now. As a result, all of the excess 1987+ births literally have nowhere to go in the society we have now, and they just float around as disaffected youth or never leave their parents' basement. Think of all the problems facing young people today, and envision the logical solution for them. Housing: why don't young underhoused people simply pick up a hammer, saw, and some wood and build themselves a house? If you do this in any major metropolitan area today, you will get a stop-work order and a zillion zoning and building code violations. Health care: if somebody is sick, go read a few textbooks and do what they say you should do. If you do this, you'll be arrested for practicing medicine without a license, and the number of residencies (and hence new licenses granted) is strictly capped to keep wages high. Aviation: with how dysfunctional Boeing is, why haven't competitors arisen? Because building a plane is so tightly regulated that a startup that can satisfy the regulations would basically look like Boeing, have roughly the same cost structure, and move as slowly. The one exception that lucky Millennials got into was tech, which was notoriously unregulated until about 5 years ago. That unregulation meant there was space for new people to enter the industry, and for new firms to take over other parts of the economy. Everybody else has had to fight for the limited new positions that open up in industries whose structure has already been decided.

xeromal 2y ago
I really appreciate this point and I've had similar thoughts. A lot of people nowadays point back to the peak of American civilization post world war II and think or expect that that will continue but like you said it was tightly optimized and I think a flash in the pan mostly from Europe being completely destroyed while the United States remained unscathed causing a massive boon. What I haven't considered are your points about everything being overly regulated to the point that no one can run a business or build their own home without so much BS and red tape that they are guaranteed failure. College was the entry point into success but even that is slowly collapsing. I don't know much about medieval Europe but my basic understanding makes me think that we live in a similar space where you don't really pick your job, you just work for the local Lord who happens to be a corporation that pays you enough to survive. I don't think it's as big as it used to be, but I think a lot of people bet their hopes and dreams on moonshots such as becoming streamers or athletes but that's just another way to keep everyone placated. I appreciate your comment
sublinear 2y ago
> generations from WW2 to Gen-X constructed a very tightly-optimized society - with no room for their grandchildren in it Not sure if I agree or disagree. Maybe you can elaborate on this specifically. The rest of your comment seems to agree with my opinion that a ton of red tape killed opportunities previous generations had. This is fundamentally a political issue, not an economic one.
- nostrademons 2y ago
  I pick on regulation because it's the most universal example, but the fundamental problem is overconstraint. When a system gets too complex, you can't change any of it without giving up other desirable properties, even if the new properties you're trying to attain are more important than the properties you give up. In terms of how we build our cities, for example, many of them are designed for a set number of people and then try to optimize quality of life for all those people. You can perhaps accommodate a 10% increase in citizens by building in marginal areas, upzoning parts, crowding, etc. But accommodating a 2x+ increase requires a radical revision of fundamental infrastructure. Your sewer system needs to be dug up and replaced with larger pipes. Your transit system needs to move from single-lane roads to either boulevards or mass public transit. Your educational system needs new schools, which generate new drop-offs, which further increases the strain on the transit system. Some people's property needs to be eminent domained. Some people's views will be blocked. Certainly the character of the city is going to change. All of this generates political opposition, so it definitely is a political issue in addition to an economic one. Democratic (in the political-system sense, not the political-party sense) voters pass regulations so that it doesn't happen, looking out for their own interests. But the consequence of those regulations is that growth, renewal, and innovation becomes impossible. The system is overconstrained, and cannot adapt to either large growth in population or large environmental changes. Any attempt to re-adapt it to the new realities of the world require that you throw away large portions, because all of the systems are interconnected and tightly optimized.

psyants 2y ago

They’re aware earlier in life than any prior generation ever that the economy of real stuff works on physical statistics and not the memes, contrived rhetoric of history propagated by word of mouth? Since the 2000s the decline in religious convictions has removed an obligation to a shared “big picture” sense of agency. Cut us open, no words, just mush and goo being crackled at by field effects. Thousands of years of communal “buzz” in our biology, absence of old routines no longer exists for the younger generations whose parents bailed in the late 90s-00s The only shared purpose is ameliorate each other’s economic anxiety by making sure there’s enough food and TP on shelves. The dumb rhetorical games are pointless given modern science. Debate the minutiae all you want about what it means big picture but ground truth is enough food, shelter, and healthcare, social life, is all most people want Keep in mind “disconnection” here means “from social routines of the recent past.” The recent past was disconnected from its recent past, and so on. We don’t speak Latin anymore. The 1900s only exist as a hallucination for the people who experienced it.

tsol 2y ago

They prayed to God that they could adapt to nature. Today people have no faith to turn to, and the system they are in is an artifical maze meant to keep them distracted. There's no hope in the modern scenario.

imtringued 2y ago

They are unwanted. In all of those scenarios you mentioned, simply working more and harder contributes to the solution.