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Rust is the "frontend wave" of the backends. All the woke kids gravitate towards it. A suffix of "Written in Rust" is a thing here so I'm throwing away my inter

by chimen 2y ago

Rust is the "frontend wave" of the backends. All the woke kids gravitate towards it. A suffix of "Written in Rust" is a thing here so I'm throwing away my internet points now.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
... complains about people using tropes and tired cliches in posts while using the worst of them, themself
- chimen 2y ago
  I do not complain. I've seen this trend multiple times by now. First time was with Ruby on Rails I think [1], then the cancer that led us to write JS to output HTML and all the good stuff that came and still manages to pour from npm. Every now and then you can spot the "fashion" out of these things. Rust is good and has earned its place. I just despise cult-like followings for these languages and technologies. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZeZsZEEpno&themeRefresh=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZeZsZEEpno&themeRefresh=1
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    There's no need for you to blather about "woke" and drag in US culture wars nonsense. It's distasteful, glib, and frankly not very intelligent, and just subtracts from whatever your point was.
    - chimen 2y ago
      As I said above, cult-like. They will swiftly call you names if you even dare to question their beliefs. Thank you for proving me right kind sir.
      - obdev 2y ago
        Your post is "flagged" to oblivion, just like my earlier post questioning the "inclusive" culture of the Rust community. What is it called when a person or group's actions don't match their words?
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        > Your post is "flagged" to oblivion Personally, I think downvoting insults is more inclusive than not downvoting insults. > just like my earlier post You made an entire submission asking users of a specific programming language to defend themselves. It's a bad HN submission. Flagging it is neither inclusive nor uninclusive. It's just marking it as a bad submission. How do those actions fail to match words? What words do you have in mind? Also the HN users that flagged it probably don't even use Rust.
        obdev 2y ago
        So your magic ball tells you why did people hit the "flag" button on my post. Thank you for sharing that. For a moment I thought every hint of criticism towards Rust is suppressed or censored by the Rust zealots.
amelius 2y ago
I think most people here understand that a language that is great for kernel development isn't necessarily great for everything else.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  I work fulltime in Rust (embedded stuff) but actually think the "everything else" influence into Rust is stronger than the systems stuff, and it's harming the ecosystem. Just try finding e.g. an MQTT or WebSocket or etc library that doesn't drag the whole mammoth tokio ecosystem (which is really geared for Web Scale! projects) in with it. Rust is becoming the language that tokio ate, and Cargo/Crates.io the new NPM. That is, Rust is the systems language that a wave of non-systems developers insist on using, leaving behind a trail of non-systems-appropriate crates and projects. Parent commenter's comment was crap by HN's commenting standards... but the underlying point about trendiness I think is in fact accurate.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    I used Rust professionally up until this year (since before async landed) and IMO you've hit the nail on the head. The shoehorning of async into the language and ecosystem seemed to be driven by the belief that if Rust can't attract Go or Python developers then it will fail. In fact Rust was doing fine in its niche attracting C++ developers and trying to make it everything to everyone has diluted what was great about it. (That said, your example might be a bit exaggerated as I found mqtt libraries that don't require tokio).
    - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
      Just like C++, teams will end up having to carve out a sane subset comfortable for their domain. For myself that's looking more and more like: Ditch crates.io (and maybe even Cargo), carefully curate and vendor all dependencies. Probably avoid async, but definitely avoid tokio. Don't get excessively clever. (Here I think Rust does a better job of C++ of having good "community standards" already)
  - 2y ago

by chimen 2y ago

Rust is the "frontend wave" of the backends. All the woke kids gravitate towards it. A suffix of "Written in Rust" is a thing here so I'm throwing away my internet points now.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago

... complains about people using tropes and tired cliches in posts while using the worst of them, themself

chimen 2y ago
I do not complain. I've seen this trend multiple times by now. First time was with Ruby on Rails I think [1], then the cancer that led us to write JS to output HTML and all the good stuff that came and still manages to pour from npm. Every now and then you can spot the "fashion" out of these things. Rust is good and has earned its place. I just despise cult-like followings for these languages and technologies. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZeZsZEEpno&themeRefresh=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZeZsZEEpno&themeRefresh=1
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  There's no need for you to blather about "woke" and drag in US culture wars nonsense. It's distasteful, glib, and frankly not very intelligent, and just subtracts from whatever your point was.
  - chimen 2y ago
    As I said above, cult-like. They will swiftly call you names if you even dare to question their beliefs. Thank you for proving me right kind sir.
    - obdev 2y ago
      Your post is "flagged" to oblivion, just like my earlier post questioning the "inclusive" culture of the Rust community. What is it called when a person or group's actions don't match their words?
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        > Your post is "flagged" to oblivion Personally, I think downvoting insults is more inclusive than not downvoting insults. > just like my earlier post You made an entire submission asking users of a specific programming language to defend themselves. It's a bad HN submission. Flagging it is neither inclusive nor uninclusive. It's just marking it as a bad submission. How do those actions fail to match words? What words do you have in mind? Also the HN users that flagged it probably don't even use Rust.
        obdev 2y ago
        So your magic ball tells you why did people hit the "flag" button on my post. Thank you for sharing that. For a moment I thought every hint of criticism towards Rust is suppressed or censored by the Rust zealots.

amelius 2y ago

I think most people here understand that a language that is great for kernel development isn't necessarily great for everything else.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
I work fulltime in Rust (embedded stuff) but actually think the "everything else" influence into Rust is stronger than the systems stuff, and it's harming the ecosystem. Just try finding e.g. an MQTT or WebSocket or etc library that doesn't drag the whole mammoth tokio ecosystem (which is really geared for Web Scale! projects) in with it. Rust is becoming the language that tokio ate, and Cargo/Crates.io the new NPM. That is, Rust is the systems language that a wave of non-systems developers insist on using, leaving behind a trail of non-systems-appropriate crates and projects. Parent commenter's comment was crap by HN's commenting standards... but the underlying point about trendiness I think is in fact accurate.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  I used Rust professionally up until this year (since before async landed) and IMO you've hit the nail on the head. The shoehorning of async into the language and ecosystem seemed to be driven by the belief that if Rust can't attract Go or Python developers then it will fail. In fact Rust was doing fine in its niche attracting C++ developers and trying to make it everything to everyone has diluted what was great about it. (That said, your example might be a bit exaggerated as I found mqtt libraries that don't require tokio).
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    Just like C++, teams will end up having to carve out a sane subset comfortable for their domain. For myself that's looking more and more like: Ditch crates.io (and maybe even Cargo), carefully curate and vendor all dependencies. Probably avoid async, but definitely avoid tokio. Don't get excessively clever. (Here I think Rust does a better job of C++ of having good "community standards" already)
- 2y ago