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Minister defends arrest power for people feared to commit a hate crime in future
- refurb 2y agoIt's a "pre-crime"! Who knew the movie Minority Report would come true.
- loupol 2y ago"It's been determined with more than 86% accuracy that you are likely to commit a crime within the next 6 months. You will be detained until the probability goes down."
- andrelaszlo 2y ago"It's not sweeping, it's only going to be used for the worst potential crimes"
- Akronymus 2y agoSURELY they wouldn't use generalization to put the worst potential crimes and thoughts they dislike in the same bucket.
- mysterydip 2y agoAll you dissenters are under arrest. The only reason you'd be against this is if you're planning to commit a crime; therefore, you must be planning to commit a crime!
- User23 2y agoThe limit case of prosecutorial discretion is pragmatically indistinguishable from tyranny. The more selective law enforcement is when everything is illegal, the less meaningful the laws themselves actually are and the more important the personalities of the enforcers. Unfortunately the notion that law is best used to restrict government is a uniquely English cultural development. It’s unsurprising that Canada is losing that as she accelerates away from her English heritage. In principle of course there’s no reason a multicultural society couldn’t adopt the principle, but I’m unaware of that actually happening except for lip service.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Akronymus 2y agoWith minority report, at least the ones calling in the pre-crime were psychics and for imminent danger, afaik. So, much less bad than what canada is up to.
- Havoc 2y agoBut only the bad parts.
- actionfromafar 2y agoAlso the obnoxious RSI-inducing touch interface?
- Retric 2y agoThere’s quite a few behaviors that are illegal because they are associated with stuff people are concerned about even if they aren’t inherently harmful. Public intoxication for example was criminalized long before Minority Report was a thing. We didn’t make photographing critical infrastructure illegal, but people were pushing that narrative and it could have easily happened.
- integral_1699 2y agoI would partially push back on public intoxication not being harmful. It does intimidate other people trying to use the same public space.
- Retric 2y agoIs the presence of alcohol or is it the way some people behave while drunk? Because that behavior could be illegal without being drunk also being illegal. Put another way, people get arrested sitting quietly because they are drunk without any obvious outward signs of being drunk so it’s is hardly intimidating.
- whythre 2y agoThat’s because a drunk persons’s decision making is inherently impaired. They might be sitting quietly now. The vast majority of criminal violence (domestic or otherwise) occurs in conjunction with impaired faculties and alcohol is often the cause.
- Retric 2y agoA classic pre-crime argument.
- csomar 2y agoYou can measure that beyond any biases, however. This, on the hand, is up to the guy in charge. Anyone can be affected by this if they happen to be on the bad side of the people in charge.
- red003 2y agoThe best predictor of crime is a previous crime yet there’s a revolving door on jails and DAs won’t prosecute anything. It’s looking quite a bit like the Soviet Union where political dissenters were punished worse than murderers.
- jalapenos 2y agoRead the headline and instantly thought "it's either the UK or Canada".
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- robertlagrant 2y agoScotland or Canada. Must be something about being a northern neighbour.
- logicchains 2y agoOr having really awful weather.
- petre 2y agoThe guy is an Indian refugee from Uganda, where his family were expelled out of by Idi Amin because of ethnicity and religion. So somebody who has witnessed discrimnation and racism at a young age. When such an individual with childhood trauma finds himself in charge of the justice portofolio in a socialist government calling themselves liberals, what you get is Pre-hate-crime.
- robertlagrant 2y agoThat's a tragedy, but to your point I'm reminded of the Mitchell and Webb sketch where a man is interviewed on his opinions about a safety system not being installed, and he keeps trying to insist that his views are extremely biased as his wife's life would've been saved by such a system[0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98CWbGG2DJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98CWbGG2DJ0 [video]
- sokoloff 2y agoMe too, but only because we don't call them Ministers in the US. (I could see this happening in parts of the US as well, but the headline would be worded differently.)
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- lionkor 2y agoThe beginning of the end. Its been a ride, see you in a totalitarian canada in 10 years. I'm excited to read the "how did this happen" posts, then, I guess? Good time to start a business providing visas for other, less crazy, countries.
- krapp 2y agoDon't bother moving south, the US seems hell bent on turning itself into some kind of theocratic oligarchy at the moment.
- mikrotikker 2y agoThe constitution prevents that, esp the 2nd amendment of it. Dont be weak and let the religious nutters be the only ones to practice their 2A right.
- deadbabe 2y agoThat’s still better than totalitarianism.
- Kerb_ 2y agoIt's totalitarianism where God writes the rules
- AbrahamParangi 2y agoThis is a fantasy either way. I mean, really.
- pixl97 2y agoI mean yes, god is a fantasy, but what are you talking about exactly?
- Phiwise_ 2y ago[flagged]
- iinnPP 2y agoThey are already having trouble arresting people doing "home invasion" (breaking and entering with guns while the person is home), even with children in the house. Our government is in complete shambles. All of them are trying to one up each other with no concept of reality. Our education system(all levels) is in the same state. Tests are blatantly wrong, plagiarism is rapant among professors (even with that incredibly high bar) and the administration is stuck on "everyone does it" and "the course has been approved by the regulator." We have hospitals with 20% of a budget doing 80% of the workload for a city. Oh and our security agency can't find time to fix obvious problems with the largest corporations websitea that are actively leaking PII (including full phone logs).
- slavik81 2y agoThe worst part is that the federal opposition parties seem little better. Many of the provincial governments are disastrous. Even my municipal government is a trainwreck. Canadian governance as a whole seems to be on a decline, and there's no end in sight. The Canadian motto is, "peace, order and good government." At least we still have peace.
- logicchains 2y ago>At least we still have peace. Only because even the most fervent US warmonger would have a hard time justifying an invasion of Canada.
- Der_Einzige 2y agoWhy? It’s a thing in the fallout universe that we annex Canada. Why couldn’t we do it in real life?
- slater 2y agoThe people of Canada might have mixed feelings about it.
- emilfihlman 2y agoHey, I know this! There's a word for this! It's dystopia!
- peauc 2y agoCanada is done... Scary stuff.
- mihaic 2y agoWow, I would have never expected a law like this to pass anywhere in the Anglo-Saxon world post-WW2. I mean, I would have expected abuses of state power, which always exist and are limited, but never putting this in law, even in war time.
- sph 2y agoThe Post-WW2 era you speak of ended in the 1970s or so. We always believe the hunger for piece of prosperity after 1945 would last forever. Nothing lasts forever. People forget, and then go on to repeat the same mistakes. Time is a circle.
- grobgambit 2y agoYou wouldn't have this insane law though if the internet never existed. The free world that evolved after WW2 is simply not compatible with the internet.
- sph 2y agoThe problem is not the Internet though. It is the Big Government that wants to control any aspect of its citizens' lives.
- throwaway48476 2y agoThe post ww2 period was when the CIA was doing the most illegal things. Imagining the period as some time of limited abuse is false.
- mihaic 2y agoI know there was abuse, it's just that the gov didn't make efforts to twist the legal framework to ease their abuse.
- throwaway48476 2y agoNo, they simply ignored it.
- deadbabe 2y agoCanada used to seem like a peaceful place to live, but with the real estate crisis, power hungry corrupt government, and increasingly violent crime, it’s quickly becoming a hell hole.
- vouaobrasil 2y agoCanada has its problems...it's also exceptionally cold for many months in most places. That being said, most places around the world are becoming hell-holes due to the increasing presence of technology and the enormous amounts of effort we need to maintain that technological increase.
- yareal 2y agoTo say nothing of maid being used as a eugenics program.
- uvnq 2y agoCan you speak more to that? I'm not familiar with MAID beyond a surface level understanding
- tgv 2y agoIt's not an arrest, it's a peace bond. And there's nothing to worry about, if you tag a garage door, you probably won't get a life sentence. This is for the children, so "it is critical that the bill progresses through Parliament to committee swiftly". And this bill was only drawn after studying similar laws in Germany. 90 years ago, by the looks of it.
- mjburgess 2y agoThe real issue with social media is actually already illegal: you cannot form harassment gangs which stalk and abuse people. I would support governments legislating this issue, but so often, it's seen purely through a hate-speech lens -- which is madness. One has to wonder of the politics behind this: are harassment campaigns permissable against white men? It is fine to hate them? One has to imagine legislators believe so. The illegal behaviour here is fairly obvious, and not so hard to police: prevent social media platforms from "easy sharing" behaviour by default, and ban it for harassing accounts, etc. Give fines to people who instigate targeted campaigns against non-public figures. Enshire an absolute right to good-faith expression for any member of the public online, so any sincerely held belief can be expressed without fear of mobbing.. etc. It is very odd that this issue is seen through a 'minority rights' lens, rather than the more obvious social harassement lens.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago[flagged]
- trimethylpurine 2y agoAs a group with forced membership.
- willcipriano 2y agoI thought racism and sexism wasn't permitted here.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago[flagged]
- walterbell 2y agoIf laws were products, this would be self-inflicted brand damage. Commercial feedback loops, including revenue and brand value of good products, would eventually lead to withdrawal of the bad product. Imagine a law to protect lawmakers from undue media influence, in order to improve the quality of their future lawmaking.. Paging Marshall McLuhan scholars, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan McLuhan proposes that media themselves, not the content they carry, should be the focus of study—popularly quoted as "the medium is the message". His insight is that a medium affects the society in which it plays a role not by the content it delivers, but by its own characteristics. McLuhan points to the light bulb as a clear demonstration of this. A light bulb does not have content in the way that a newspaper has articles, or a television has programs, but it is a medium that has a social effect; that is, a light bulb enables people to create spaces at night that would otherwise be enveloped by darkness. He describes the light bulb as a medium without any content.
- LegitShady 2y agothe liberals have so badly damaged their brand they can't damage it more. This way they get to have a weapon to use against people they disagree with before the next election. What matter is an already poor brand vs a weapon that allows you to put your enemies through the criminal justice system and cost them tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees even if they're found innocent? The process is the punishment as much as anything else.
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- incomingpain 2y agoNot surprised at all to see this is Canadian Liberals. The Liberals have essentially lost the next election and have decided to go totalitarian in response. Canada doesn't have a recall procedure, so they get to do this. I'm following Bill C-26 as well which states that Politicians can decide to secretly have people disconnected from the internet countrywide. No due process, no court or judge involved. https://openparliament.ca/bills/44-1/C-26/ https://openparliament.ca/bills/44-1/C-26/ This bill is by Marco Mendicino, the same person who deployed the Canadian Army and at least 1 tank to crush a protest. Which they did do, and has since been found to have been very unconstitutional.
- yareal 2y agoIt's the same with U.S. liberals (which compose the bulk of the Democrat and Republican politicians). Note: Liberal as in liberalism or neoliberal, not as shorthand for "progressive", which is how it is sometimes used in the states.
- bun_terminator 2y agothere is no such thing as hate crime
- yareal 2y agoExplain more. Are you suggesting that hate cannot be a motivator for a crime? That hate cannot cause a crime to be committed that would otherwise not be committed? Or that we should not punish people who commit crimes purely out of hate any more severely than, say, out of random chance? I believe that it's patently absurd to suggest hate crimes don't exist, and ignorant of objective facts and reason, so I'd like you to explain more in case I misunderstood.
- richwater 2y agoPunishing someone more or less because of their personal justification of the crime seems batshit insane to me and how it came to pass boggles the mind. But I agree, the original comment was confusing.
- itsoktocry 2y ago>I believe that it's patently absurd to suggest hate crimes don't exist, and ignorant of objective facts and reason, so I'd like you to explain more in case I misunderstood. How do you even prove a crime was committed due to "hate"? And why is that any better or worse than a generic criminal offense?
- skrbjc 2y agoIs it a hate crime if you attack someone because you hate that they're rich? Is it a hate crime if you attack someone because you hate blue shirts and he was wearing a blue shirt that day? What exactly is a hate crime and how is it precisely defined such that it's more serious than crime in general? If you punch someone in the face vs Punch them because they are a woman vs Punch them because they are white vs Punch them because they are black vs Punch them because they are gay vs Punch them because they are a nazi vs Punch them because they are a commie Which of these is a hate crime and which is a "normal" crime. Which get punished more harshly and how to decide the motivation other than in the absolutely most obvious cases of the person confessing why they did it.
- sph 2y agoFirst they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. — Martin Niemöller
- jt2190 2y agoHere’s the full text of C-63 https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/bill/C-63/first-reading https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/bill/C-63/first-r...
- wtcactus 2y agoWe clearly failed in the battle against Marxism. I come from a country where the exaltation and apology of communism, was ever present in the school system. It was not part of the curriculum, but teachers would praise communism openly in the classroom, and academia (part of it) was openly Marxist. This is the result, a generation that was indoctrinated in this system, and that now sees this behavior as accepted. Too many echoes of the barbarity of the Chinese cultural revolution come to mind.
- yareal 2y agoThe politicians proposing these things aren't Marxists or leftists. They are liberals or centrist conservatives. The people putting these bills forward absolutely detest Marx and Marxists. Marxism is a wide, wide set of ideologies. Soviet and Maoist Marxists are only one type.
- uvnq 2y agoMarxism appears to be behind a lot of these trends
- hbossy 2y agoBrought to you by the country freezing accounts of people striking against workplace sanitary rules.
- ThrowawayTestr 2y agoThis country is so pathetic.
- fallingfrog 2y ago[flagged]
- swasheck 2y agoi loved that movie! one of the first book-to-film i’ve appreciated on its own merits and not compared to the source
- kwere 2y agoThe "reasonable" way of handling such situations would be to notify suspects that they are in a watchlist for "terrorist threat" and listing maybe inside a police station what punishment the risk by "acting".
- mmaniac 2y agoThe objective of laws like this is to be opaque, so they can be applied arbitrarily and on demand. Informing suspects that they are under suspicion would give them the opportunity to comply with the the rules and avoid punishment.
- anon_original 2y agoHow are they gonna prosecute anons on imageboards & irc? They can't, which leads me to conclusion, that the law true purpose is to inflict fear among population, leading people to self-censoring their online speech. Another purpose is to silence political dissidents and key public figures from political parties, who are deemed dangerous to the government regime. We desperately need anonymity, otherwise, free speech will die.
- brokenmachine 2y agoThe logical next step is ID requirement for posting on social media. Y'now, to protect the children or whatever.