8 ms·

A morning with the Rabbit R1: a fun, funky, unfinished AI gadget

40 points by praisewhitey 2y ago

yellow_postit 2y ago
Sounds significantly better than Humane Still woefully unfinished compared to the marketing/demo hype. And unable to answer well the question “shouldn’t my phone do this?” But all in all I’m excited about the many attempts at hardware and interfaces — chat or voice I refuse to believe are “the best” interaction models for agents/llms.
- mft_ 2y ago
  > And unable to answer well the question “shouldn’t my phone do this?” Exactly this. So much of the functionality of the Humane gadget, and this, overlap directly with a mobile phone. In Humane's case, due to the removal of a screen (and the projector not being a suitable replacement) it was either level (in some cases) with your phone's abilities, or a lot worse in others, and at great cost. This, at least, is cheaper and has a better screen... Big picture, all these manufacturers seem to be taking advantage of is that neither Android or iOS have baked AI into the system, yet. When (e.g.) Siri becomes the interface for a strong LLM, both gadgets lose any differentiation they ever had and just become immediately irrelevant.
  - TheRoque 2y ago
    The weird thing with Humane is that they decide to make it a totally different device: different data plan, different phone number, different storage etc. etc. etc. It sounds so stupid to for the user to do that. I get that they wanted to have people to use it INSTEAD of their phones, but let's face it: nobody is gonna do that. If you paired it with your phone instead, you could share the data plan, share the data (your phone also has knowledge about you), use your own phone number etc.
    - dagmx 2y ago
      That’s also the case with the Rabbit R1. It exists as a separate device from your phone.
martinky24 2y ago
Was it determined if the "leaked source code" for this thing was real? If so, it showed that the Rabbit R1 didn't have any AI powering it -- all rule-based heuristics (which is... fine, it's not uncommon for rule-based hueristics to be labeled as AI these days).
- GaggiX 2y ago
  The repo falsely claimed to have released the language action model code, you can read Retr0id's analysis here: https://github.com/rabbitscam/rabbitr1/issues/11 https://github.com/rabbitscam/rabbitr1/issues/11
  - colejohnson66 2y ago
    The repo is already gone. No DMCA notice for it. EDIT: Wayback Machine got a snapshot of it: https://web.archive.org/web/20240424095544/https://github.com/rabbitscam/rabbitr1/issues/11 https://web.archive.org/web/20240424095544/https://github.co...
    - GaggiX 2y ago
      It shows how incompetent the attacker was, I report below what Retr0id wrote in the issue: "tl;dr: The "leak" seems real, but doesn't prove any of the claims made in the readme. This statement from Peiyuan Liao, the rabbit CTO, is consistent with what I'm seeing here: https://twitter.com/liaopeiyuan/status/ https://twitter.com/liaopeiyuan/status/ 1782922595199033662 So the "leak" is a bit of a nothingburger, containing partial code for the relatively boring process of letting users authenticate with online services through a sandboxed browser session, from which auth tokens etc. can be extracted. You can't infer anything about how LAM does or doesn't work from this. They likely used "kiosk escape" tricks to get code exec within the box that runs the browser. Assuming their sandboxing is all set up correctly, this isn't particularly concerning, but it does expose the code that runs within the sandbox for analysis. That's what we appear to have here. The attacker left behind a file named cdk.log, which is an artifact of https://github.com/cdk-team/CDK/ https://github.com/cdk-team/CDK/, a container pentesting tool. They were clearly trying to escape the sandbox and pivot to somewhere more interesting, but I don't think they managed it. I think "part 2" is a bluff, this is all they have (feel free to prove me wrong, lol). But that doesn't mean there's nothing here. Lets look at what we do have. The most interesting detail to me is a package name list in repo/ typescript/common/base-tsconfig.json [...] The only code actually present is for q-web-minion- What follows is my speculation based on the names alone: "q" seems like a codename for the rabbit device (so q-hole rabbit hole). Q might stand for "quantum". The problem with trying to log into and interface with consumer-facing services from 'the cloud" is that you'll get IP rate limited, blocked as a bot, etc. It would make sense to proxy traffic back out through the user's device, and that's what I'd hope q-proxy is about. The big downside with this is that it ~doubles latency and halves available bandwidth, magnifying any deficiencies of a flaky 4G connection. This is perhaps partly why their doordash demo chugged so hard. (protip to the team; use a caching proxy, with SSL, MitM. Detect CDN URLs and don't proxy those.) This is a total stab in the dark but my guess is that bunny-host is where the LAM action happens, and bunny-builder is for LAM training. cm-quantum-peripheral-common might be the wrist-mounted device teased in the launch event. Addendum: It's also possible there were some juicy credentials accessible within the container. But if there were, they aren't in this leak. In particular, it looks like they're using GCP "service account keys' (/credentials/ cm-gcp-service-account-quantum-workload/gcp-service-account- quantum-workload.json), which according to google's docs "create a security risk and are not recommended. Unlike the other credential file types, compromised service account keys can be used by a bad actor without any additional information". There isn't enough information here (and/or my analysis isn't deep enough - "cloud" is not my forte) to determine if that'll cause any issues in practice, but if there really is a "part 2" leak, I'd guess this is how they got it." I OCRed two screenshots that I took, so there may be errors.
scblock 2y ago
Sounds like landfill.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  They should have at least reused the exact playdate hardware so that people can install the firmware and play games on it once they are tired of it.
  - whywhywhywhy 2y ago
    That's owned by a different company though.
    - RockRobotRock 2y ago
      I thought the same thing when I first saw the device
dagmx 2y ago
Here’s an Unbox Therapy video https://youtu.be/W2pYTRdX5LA?si=giLseweTP0zWf-M- https://youtu.be/W2pYTRdX5LA?si=giLseweTP0zWf-M- I’m sure more stuff will drop throughout the day but in case folks wanted to see a hands on. Right now I don’t see it doing anything I can’t do from my phone already. I’m very unclear on why these (rabbit and humane) aren’t just apps. I just don’t see people carrying these in addition to their phones and dealing with the split interaction ecosystem. I also don’t understand why neither made their products into a watch form factor. That at least solves the majority of their issue of “having it on you in a convenient way” Also as an aside, while I think the teenage engineering design is gorgeous, I’m disappointed that the packaging is so plastic heavy. A plastic cartridge like case wrapped in plastic. Neither of which will be used again.
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  > I’m very unclear on why these (rabbit and humane) aren’t just apps the real end game for AI devices is an always on microphone which is impossible on iOS.
  - dagmx 2y ago
    Both products actively position themselves as push to talk to avoid wake words and maintain privacy.
    - add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
      The real tragedy of this era of technology is that even if an important new invention did work as well as imagined in sci fi, it would be so compromised by surveillance capitalism and patterns of enshittification that no one paying attention would want to come to rely on it.
      - roughly 2y ago
        As Ted Chiang put it, most fears about A.I. are best understood as fears about capitalism.
danpalmer 2y ago
> Points at dog, "what's this", "it's a dog" > Points at sign saying New York Stock Exchange, "what's this", "it's the NYSE" These are impressive in that we did not have software that could do these sorts of things a few years ago, but they are functionally useless examples. People do not do this beyond writing tech reviews or a tech demo for a friend. I'd really like to see useful demonstrations, of things that I actually want to know. For example I saw a tower on the horizon ~15 miles away and wanted to know what tower it was, I pointed my phone at it and zoomed in extremely far, and asked Google Lens, and it gave me the wikipedia page. This is materially better in two ways: first I can zoom in past all the other towers in my field of view, and second I get the wikipedia page, on a screen, I don't know what information I need about it, it sort of depends on what it is, and that page is a good place to go for that. What other demos do we have for these devices (R1, AI Pin) of real world scenarios? So far the reporting is lacking on these, and where they have been demoed (e.g. AI Pin translation) it has been with poor results.
- manojlds 2y ago
  In the Unbox therapy video it did say what breed the dog is. That is useful!
  - tazu 2y ago
    What about mutts? Would be cool if dog physiognomy is so advanced it could identify distinct breed percentages. Then we could apply it to humans. That would be useful!
  - dagmx 2y ago
    Your phone can do that though. It's built into iOS, and I believe on Android it's part of Google Lens.
    - manojlds 2y ago
      Yeah but for me I am thinking of how kids can use this to learn things around them
  - 2y ago
ugjka 2y ago
Unfortunately I have no desire to talk to computers, particularly near other people
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
dpflan 2y ago
Wouldn't any of these devices be better paired with some sort of app-connection to a phone? A standalone Rabbit device just seems to be under-powered and certainly improvable and capable of more by being connected to a phone with more resources... Why would I want a Rabbit if I could get a Rabbit that also connects to my mobile computing device that is engineered for performance?
- busymom0 2y ago
  I have a feeling that the founders of this and the Humane pin know deep down that if they allowed any app-connection to a phone, it would make it even more obvious to the users that the product is useless as the phone can do everything and far better. So they have actively decided to not allow it.
  - dpflan 2y ago
    I surmised that too. The product is a camera/mic extension to a phone.
- layer8 2y ago
  The concept (if I understand it correctly) is that it can remote-control (or maybe rather local-control) your apps. An app couldn’t do that at least on iOS, it would have to be integrated into the OS.
  - abrichr 2y ago
    https://github.com/OpenAdaptAI/OpenAdapt https://github.com/OpenAdaptAI/OpenAdapt runs locally on your machine to automate repetitive tasks in desktop apps. We have plans to build a mobile interface as well.
rvz 2y ago
Rabbit R1 sounds much more useable and better than the significantly over-priced + subscription Humane AI Pin scam that the VCs and paid promoters were screaming about it as one of the "Best Inventions of 2023". [0] Even if Rabbit R1 is a scam, it looks like a very good and cheap scam device for a first version that "actually works" and is more polished than Humane's AI pin. This tells me that Humane's AI Pin performed worse than the Rabbit R1 and Humane is no where near worth >$1BN and after 5 years this is what the result of all of that is. But so far overall, there is nothing that these devices can do better than a mobile device and an app at this time. [0] https://time.com/collection/best-inventions-2023/6327143/humane-ai-pin/ https://time.com/collection/best-inventions-2023/6327143/hum...
0xbadc0de5 2y ago
No doubt this will be almost as successful as the Apple Vision Pro.
dwb 2y ago
There's no way I'd trust any company like this with all these credentials (however they spin it) for such a marginal convenience improvement – maybe – that I have to carry around another device for. I extremely don't get it. I am in no way a tech minimalist, but everything I have has its place, and if it gets in my way then it's shoved somewhere else very quickly. I cannot possibly imagine how this would earn its place.
TIPSIO 2y ago
I don't really understand these gadgets. The Meta Ray-Bans have multi-modal AI built in (yes, vision that it can very quickly look and explain you see, is ridiculous how good it is), can interact/notifications with your phone, and is extremely fast and reliable. They also don't look clunky at all anymore. I seriously wear them all the time and would never want to carry a Rabbit with me along with my phone.
- testmasterflex 2y ago
  Can you share a situation they have been helpful in?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - TIPSIO 2y ago
    I'm a huge fan. You wear it seamlessly and AI becomes true extension in your ear. Putting in ear phones seems off now. For vision utility, mostly identification: - look and tell me info about what is this mushroom while hiking - asked it to explain facts about the artist of a painting at a museum - what is this PDF on my computer screen generally about Other utility is simply discussion. Ask questions while cooking or if you you have a random idea. For example, I used it to see ingredient alternatives while cooking home-made pasta. I also used it to brainstorm related gift ideas for my wife while purchasing a present for my wife. It also has real-time integration (weather, news, etc.). Finally, I don't use social media. I have a private Instagram however to post pictures and videos since the footage and auto-stability features is truly next level. My friends mostly use for documenting their kids lives privately. It makes that Vision Pro ad where the dad is taking photos of the kids with the giant goggles a hilarious joke. Edit: Probably the only reason it hasn't taken off is because "Meta". It's probably the best new gadget I've bought in 5+ years.
    - singularity2001 2y ago
      Sorry these sound like marketing brochure answers not real life experience. I believe you that you own and love this device but be honest about what you really used it for, not what you could use it for.
brk 2y ago
It's a phone, without the phone bits. Another device to carry, charge, upgrade every few years? It's not a hard no, but the barrier is also very high. Smart watches at least mostly solve the "carry" problem, as you wear it in a very normal and socially acceptable way. Nothing about the demo addressed something that I felt was a pressing need. Neat tech concept, but not seeing the market.

40 points by praisewhitey 2y ago

Sounds significantly better than Humane Still woefully unfinished compared to the marketing/demo hype. And unable to answer well the question “shouldn’t my phone do this?” But all in all I’m excited about the many attempts at hardware and interfaces — chat or voice I refuse to believe are “the best” interaction models for agents/llms.

mft_ 2y ago
> And unable to answer well the question “shouldn’t my phone do this?” Exactly this. So much of the functionality of the Humane gadget, and this, overlap directly with a mobile phone. In Humane's case, due to the removal of a screen (and the projector not being a suitable replacement) it was either level (in some cases) with your phone's abilities, or a lot worse in others, and at great cost. This, at least, is cheaper and has a better screen... Big picture, all these manufacturers seem to be taking advantage of is that neither Android or iOS have baked AI into the system, yet. When (e.g.) Siri becomes the interface for a strong LLM, both gadgets lose any differentiation they ever had and just become immediately irrelevant.
- TheRoque 2y ago
  The weird thing with Humane is that they decide to make it a totally different device: different data plan, different phone number, different storage etc. etc. etc. It sounds so stupid to for the user to do that. I get that they wanted to have people to use it INSTEAD of their phones, but let's face it: nobody is gonna do that. If you paired it with your phone instead, you could share the data plan, share the data (your phone also has knowledge about you), use your own phone number etc.
  - dagmx 2y ago
    That’s also the case with the Rabbit R1. It exists as a separate device from your phone.

martinky24 2y ago

Was it determined if the "leaked source code" for this thing was real? If so, it showed that the Rabbit R1 didn't have any AI powering it -- all rule-based heuristics (which is... fine, it's not uncommon for rule-based hueristics to be labeled as AI these days).

GaggiX 2y ago
The repo falsely claimed to have released the language action model code, you can read Retr0id's analysis here: https://github.com/rabbitscam/rabbitr1/issues/11 https://github.com/rabbitscam/rabbitr1/issues/11
- colejohnson66 2y ago
  The repo is already gone. No DMCA notice for it. EDIT: Wayback Machine got a snapshot of it: https://web.archive.org/web/20240424095544/https://github.com/rabbitscam/rabbitr1/issues/11 https://web.archive.org/web/20240424095544/https://github.co...
  - GaggiX 2y ago
    It shows how incompetent the attacker was, I report below what Retr0id wrote in the issue: "tl;dr: The "leak" seems real, but doesn't prove any of the claims made in the readme. This statement from Peiyuan Liao, the rabbit CTO, is consistent with what I'm seeing here: https://twitter.com/liaopeiyuan/status/ https://twitter.com/liaopeiyuan/status/ 1782922595199033662 So the "leak" is a bit of a nothingburger, containing partial code for the relatively boring process of letting users authenticate with online services through a sandboxed browser session, from which auth tokens etc. can be extracted. You can't infer anything about how LAM does or doesn't work from this. They likely used "kiosk escape" tricks to get code exec within the box that runs the browser. Assuming their sandboxing is all set up correctly, this isn't particularly concerning, but it does expose the code that runs within the sandbox for analysis. That's what we appear to have here. The attacker left behind a file named cdk.log, which is an artifact of https://github.com/cdk-team/CDK/ https://github.com/cdk-team/CDK/, a container pentesting tool. They were clearly trying to escape the sandbox and pivot to somewhere more interesting, but I don't think they managed it. I think "part 2" is a bluff, this is all they have (feel free to prove me wrong, lol). But that doesn't mean there's nothing here. Lets look at what we do have. The most interesting detail to me is a package name list in repo/ typescript/common/base-tsconfig.json [...] The only code actually present is for q-web-minion- What follows is my speculation based on the names alone: "q" seems like a codename for the rabbit device (so q-hole rabbit hole). Q might stand for "quantum". The problem with trying to log into and interface with consumer-facing services from 'the cloud" is that you'll get IP rate limited, blocked as a bot, etc. It would make sense to proxy traffic back out through the user's device, and that's what I'd hope q-proxy is about. The big downside with this is that it ~doubles latency and halves available bandwidth, magnifying any deficiencies of a flaky 4G connection. This is perhaps partly why their doordash demo chugged so hard. (protip to the team; use a caching proxy, with SSL, MitM. Detect CDN URLs and don't proxy those.) This is a total stab in the dark but my guess is that bunny-host is where the LAM action happens, and bunny-builder is for LAM training. cm-quantum-peripheral-common might be the wrist-mounted device teased in the launch event. Addendum: It's also possible there were some juicy credentials accessible within the container. But if there were, they aren't in this leak. In particular, it looks like they're using GCP "service account keys' (/credentials/ cm-gcp-service-account-quantum-workload/gcp-service-account- quantum-workload.json), which according to google's docs "create a security risk and are not recommended. Unlike the other credential file types, compromised service account keys can be used by a bad actor without any additional information". There isn't enough information here (and/or my analysis isn't deep enough - "cloud" is not my forte) to determine if that'll cause any issues in practice, but if there really is a "part 2" leak, I'd guess this is how they got it." I OCRed two screenshots that I took, so there may be errors.

scblock 2y ago

Sounds like landfill.

prmoustache 2y ago
They should have at least reused the exact playdate hardware so that people can install the firmware and play games on it once they are tired of it.
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  That's owned by a different company though.
  - RockRobotRock 2y ago
    I thought the same thing when I first saw the device

dagmx 2y ago

Here’s an Unbox Therapy video https://youtu.be/W2pYTRdX5LA?si=giLseweTP0zWf-M- https://youtu.be/W2pYTRdX5LA?si=giLseweTP0zWf-M- I’m sure more stuff will drop throughout the day but in case folks wanted to see a hands on. Right now I don’t see it doing anything I can’t do from my phone already. I’m very unclear on why these (rabbit and humane) aren’t just apps. I just don’t see people carrying these in addition to their phones and dealing with the split interaction ecosystem. I also don’t understand why neither made their products into a watch form factor. That at least solves the majority of their issue of “having it on you in a convenient way” Also as an aside, while I think the teenage engineering design is gorgeous, I’m disappointed that the packaging is so plastic heavy. A plastic cartridge like case wrapped in plastic. Neither of which will be used again.

whywhywhywhy 2y ago
> I’m very unclear on why these (rabbit and humane) aren’t just apps the real end game for AI devices is an always on microphone which is impossible on iOS.
- dagmx 2y ago
  Both products actively position themselves as push to talk to avoid wake words and maintain privacy.
  - add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
    The real tragedy of this era of technology is that even if an important new invention did work as well as imagined in sci fi, it would be so compromised by surveillance capitalism and patterns of enshittification that no one paying attention would want to come to rely on it.
    - roughly 2y ago
      As Ted Chiang put it, most fears about A.I. are best understood as fears about capitalism.

danpalmer 2y ago

> Points at dog, "what's this", "it's a dog" > Points at sign saying New York Stock Exchange, "what's this", "it's the NYSE" These are impressive in that we did not have software that could do these sorts of things a few years ago, but they are functionally useless examples. People do not do this beyond writing tech reviews or a tech demo for a friend. I'd really like to see useful demonstrations, of things that I actually want to know. For example I saw a tower on the horizon ~15 miles away and wanted to know what tower it was, I pointed my phone at it and zoomed in extremely far, and asked Google Lens, and it gave me the wikipedia page. This is materially better in two ways: first I can zoom in past all the other towers in my field of view, and second I get the wikipedia page, on a screen, I don't know what information I need about it, it sort of depends on what it is, and that page is a good place to go for that. What other demos do we have for these devices (R1, AI Pin) of real world scenarios? So far the reporting is lacking on these, and where they have been demoed (e.g. AI Pin translation) it has been with poor results.

manojlds 2y ago
In the Unbox therapy video it did say what breed the dog is. That is useful!
- tazu 2y ago
  What about mutts? Would be cool if dog physiognomy is so advanced it could identify distinct breed percentages. Then we could apply it to humans. That would be useful!
- dagmx 2y ago
  Your phone can do that though. It's built into iOS, and I believe on Android it's part of Google Lens.
  - manojlds 2y ago
    Yeah but for me I am thinking of how kids can use this to learn things around them
- 2y ago

ugjka 2y ago

Unfortunately I have no desire to talk to computers, particularly near other people

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

dpflan 2y ago

Wouldn't any of these devices be better paired with some sort of app-connection to a phone? A standalone Rabbit device just seems to be under-powered and certainly improvable and capable of more by being connected to a phone with more resources... Why would I want a Rabbit if I could get a Rabbit that also connects to my mobile computing device that is engineered for performance?

busymom0 2y ago
I have a feeling that the founders of this and the Humane pin know deep down that if they allowed any app-connection to a phone, it would make it even more obvious to the users that the product is useless as the phone can do everything and far better. So they have actively decided to not allow it.
- dpflan 2y ago
  I surmised that too. The product is a camera/mic extension to a phone.
layer8 2y ago
The concept (if I understand it correctly) is that it can remote-control (or maybe rather local-control) your apps. An app couldn’t do that at least on iOS, it would have to be integrated into the OS.
- abrichr 2y ago
  https://github.com/OpenAdaptAI/OpenAdapt https://github.com/OpenAdaptAI/OpenAdapt runs locally on your machine to automate repetitive tasks in desktop apps. We have plans to build a mobile interface as well.

rvz 2y ago

Rabbit R1 sounds much more useable and better than the significantly over-priced + subscription Humane AI Pin scam that the VCs and paid promoters were screaming about it as one of the "Best Inventions of 2023". [0] Even if Rabbit R1 is a scam, it looks like a very good and cheap scam device for a first version that "actually works" and is more polished than Humane's AI pin. This tells me that Humane's AI Pin performed worse than the Rabbit R1 and Humane is no where near worth >$1BN and after 5 years this is what the result of all of that is. But so far overall, there is nothing that these devices can do better than a mobile device and an app at this time. [0] https://time.com/collection/best-inventions-2023/6327143/humane-ai-pin/ https://time.com/collection/best-inventions-2023/6327143/hum...

0xbadc0de5 2y ago

No doubt this will be almost as successful as the Apple Vision Pro.

dwb 2y ago

There's no way I'd trust any company like this with all these credentials (however they spin it) for such a marginal convenience improvement – maybe – that I have to carry around another device for. I extremely don't get it. I am in no way a tech minimalist, but everything I have has its place, and if it gets in my way then it's shoved somewhere else very quickly. I cannot possibly imagine how this would earn its place.

TIPSIO 2y ago

I don't really understand these gadgets. The Meta Ray-Bans have multi-modal AI built in (yes, vision that it can very quickly look and explain you see, is ridiculous how good it is), can interact/notifications with your phone, and is extremely fast and reliable. They also don't look clunky at all anymore. I seriously wear them all the time and would never want to carry a Rabbit with me along with my phone.

testmasterflex 2y ago
Can you share a situation they have been helpful in?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- TIPSIO 2y ago
  I'm a huge fan. You wear it seamlessly and AI becomes true extension in your ear. Putting in ear phones seems off now. For vision utility, mostly identification: - look and tell me info about what is this mushroom while hiking - asked it to explain facts about the artist of a painting at a museum - what is this PDF on my computer screen generally about Other utility is simply discussion. Ask questions while cooking or if you you have a random idea. For example, I used it to see ingredient alternatives while cooking home-made pasta. I also used it to brainstorm related gift ideas for my wife while purchasing a present for my wife. It also has real-time integration (weather, news, etc.). Finally, I don't use social media. I have a private Instagram however to post pictures and videos since the footage and auto-stability features is truly next level. My friends mostly use for documenting their kids lives privately. It makes that Vision Pro ad where the dad is taking photos of the kids with the giant goggles a hilarious joke. Edit: Probably the only reason it hasn't taken off is because "Meta". It's probably the best new gadget I've bought in 5+ years.
  - singularity2001 2y ago
    Sorry these sound like marketing brochure answers not real life experience. I believe you that you own and love this device but be honest about what you really used it for, not what you could use it for.

brk 2y ago

It's a phone, without the phone bits. Another device to carry, charge, upgrade every few years? It's not a hard no, but the barrier is also very high. Smart watches at least mostly solve the "carry" problem, as you wear it in a very normal and socially acceptable way. Nothing about the demo addressed something that I felt was a pressing need. Neat tech concept, but not seeing the market.