5 ms·

Veto it on the grounds that it would cost Biden the election and that would be disastrous for me personally

ncr100 3y ago
* An ENEMY STATE has controlling influence of a widely used social network in the USA. People's minds are influenced by it .. "You are what you eat" holds for what you read/watch and consequently think * This legislation won't lose Biden the election, banning abortion by an insurrectionist will win it * We are in a country that needs people to work together to be a successful country - we are big and highly populated democracy * Rugged individualism - "me first" - is easily attacked by influencers, subject to divide-and-conquer techniques. From marketing to foreign influence, it is a weakness. * Healthcare (even as expensive as it still is), reproductive rights, free ability to vote, and ability to have civil-war-free existence in our lifetimes are contingent on a healthily functioning government. * To support OUR STATE we must find a middle ground of unity. We must recognize the forces that divide us. We must choose the path to that maintains our ever-evolving sense of personal "freedom". We must be good citizens.
- lmm 3y ago
  > An ENEMY STATE has controlling influence of a widely used social network in the USA. People's minds are influenced by it .. "You are what you eat" holds for what you read/watch and consequently think How are you defining an enemy, and why does it matter whether they're a state or not? There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me and the people I care about than the PRC government. And if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds, what good is being a "democracy" or even an independent state at all? If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    > If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China. Good news, looks like for now you can watch China-approved media without leaving your own country;)
  - knodi123 3y ago
    > There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good. > if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds This seems a very weak argument. Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. But if you think propaganda doesn't work, then I've got a bridge to sell you. Yes, there are lots of kinds and sources and degrees of propaganda, from every side. But it exists on a spectrum - and when it's being controlled by one country, covertly, for the consumption of another country, with whom you have a tense military standoff, then it's a little more insidious than the "let the people decide!" stance you're advocating.
    - lmm 3y ago
      > We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good. Not necessarily. A balance of power can be better for us regular folks at the bottom. Frankly I feel safer in a world where there's at least some non-US social media than a world where people who run the US run everything and no-one can call them out. > Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. Then what exactly is this bill aiming for?
      - verdverm 3y ago
        A European social media company would not be facing the same backlash Russia, China, and Iran are at war with the West, the West has not acknowledged it widely yet
        lmm 3y ago
        > A European social media company would not be facing the same backlash Maybe. Or maybe the US would find some excuse to ban them too. Or the same one - remember the US considers it appropriate to spy on and read the emails of the German chancellor. Conveniently, there isn't any major European social media to compare to.
      - 3y ago
- likeclockwork 3y ago
  Every item in my house is produced by this so-called enemy state.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
    I am not saying I agree with grandparent, but I would like to point out that both your statement and grandparents statement could simultaneously be true with zero conflict between the two
    - likeclockwork 3y ago
      I'm just saying it's a bit late to start raving about "enemy state" influence after they outsourced the manufacturing capacity of the entire country to it.
      - verdverm 3y ago
        The capacity is actually pretty close between the US and China https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scorecard-how-the-us-compares-to-18-other-nations/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scor... The difference is largely in the products produced, for example, no one is building anything close to the F-35, which is a significant export for the US. > America is a manufacturing superpower: Of the 22 manufacturing categories tracked by the U.N., the U.S. ranked first in six categories and second in 13 others, underscoring the breadth and competitiveness of American manufacturing. In only three sectors—apparel, motor vehicles and leather—did the U.S. fail to rank either first or second. From: https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semiconductor-electronics-us-competition-51661894538 https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semicon... If we move beyond the US vs China to the West vs Authoritarians, the comparison becomes dominating
  - tivert 3y ago
    > Every item in my house is produced by this so-called enemy state. Because Americans have been foolish and short sighted. So then they're presented with a choice: continue making the mistake or take the difficult steps to attempt to correct it.
nyokodo 3y ago
> Veto it on the grounds that it would cost Biden the election No it won’t. Firstly because the hammer won’t fall until months after the election, and secondly it’d be hard for China-hawk Trump who attempted the same thing during his presidency to take a pro-China position, but finally and most importantly because TikTok is disproportionately popular with young voters who are terrible at actually voting. Plus the move is popular with older likely voters.
- ok_dad 3y ago
  I’m not sure young people care who owns it as long as it’s there.
wannacboatmovie 3y ago
Do you care to elaborate on this? Because paying $5/gal gasoline and $8 for a carton of eggs is disastrous for me personally.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  > Because paying $5/gal gasoline and $8 for a carton of eggs is disastrous for me personally. I get $5/gal gasoline being a bummer (not that I would notice since I have an EV), but where do you live where eggs cost $8 a carton? I can get 18 for < $5, that's like a cart 1.5. Or do you mean at the organic health food place, and they are handled via soft gloves or something? Seriously, I wonder if Trump supporters are just making bad buying decision and then blaming Bidenomics for it? When I lived in Switzerland, I had a lot of price shocks to go through, but my stipend was pretty high so I guess it made sense (more money, more expensive eggs). The recent inflation has been kind of like that (but my earnings went up a lot at the same time, maybe that's not usual?).
  - hellojesus 3y ago
    > Seriously, I wonder if Trump supporters are just making bad buying decision and then blaming Bidenomics for it? People don't seem to realize that, although Biden hasn't helped reduce inflection, Trump and those before him all the way back to Clinton (exclusive) all poured gasoline that fueled this inflation fire.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Ya, let’s give some blame to Obama as well, and Biden was his vice president. We knew low interest rates for more than 20 years was going to mess things up, cheap money couldn’t last forever. I wish we could run the economy more like adults, not calling for a Fed ouster when they only cut rates by .25 during what the president at the time was calling the best economy ever.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - 3y ago
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
Biden seems to be pretty much doomed in the election anyway. Of course he might pull out an upset but it’s hard to pin it on this being the cause of his loss
- huytersd 3y ago
  Biden seems to be leading by 10% in most of the latest polls.
  - rgbrenner 3y ago
    He's not leading the polls: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/202... Please vote.
- nebula8804 3y ago
  They might still yank him for someone else at the convention. Theres is precedent no?
huytersd 3y ago
If anything it’s going to help Biden win the election.

* An ENEMY STATE has controlling influence of a widely used social network in the USA. People's minds are influenced by it .. "You are what you eat" holds for what you read/watch and consequently think * This legislation won't lose Biden the election, banning abortion by an insurrectionist will win it * We are in a country that needs people to work together to be a successful country - we are big and highly populated democracy * Rugged individualism - "me first" - is easily attacked by influencers, subject to divide-and-conquer techniques. From marketing to foreign influence, it is a weakness. * Healthcare (even as expensive as it still is), reproductive rights, free ability to vote, and ability to have civil-war-free existence in our lifetimes are contingent on a healthily functioning government. * To support OUR STATE we must find a middle ground of unity. We must recognize the forces that divide us. We must choose the path to that maintains our ever-evolving sense of personal "freedom". We must be good citizens.

lmm 3y ago
> An ENEMY STATE has controlling influence of a widely used social network in the USA. People's minds are influenced by it .. "You are what you eat" holds for what you read/watch and consequently think How are you defining an enemy, and why does it matter whether they're a state or not? There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me and the people I care about than the PRC government. And if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds, what good is being a "democracy" or even an independent state at all? If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  > If I wanted to only watch state-approved media then I'd move to China. Good news, looks like for now you can watch China-approved media without leaving your own country;)
- knodi123 3y ago
  > There are several domestic entities (governmental and non) that I would consider much bigger threats to me We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good. > if you're not willing to let people read/watch widely and make up their own minds This seems a very weak argument. Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. But if you think propaganda doesn't work, then I've got a bridge to sell you. Yes, there are lots of kinds and sources and degrees of propaganda, from every side. But it exists on a spectrum - and when it's being controlled by one country, covertly, for the consumption of another country, with whom you have a tense military standoff, then it's a little more insidious than the "let the people decide!" stance you're advocating.
  - lmm 3y ago
    > We can address multiple threats at once, and are not compelled to address them in priority order. Any improvement is good. Not necessarily. A balance of power can be better for us regular folks at the bottom. Frankly I feel safer in a world where there's at least some non-US social media than a world where people who run the US run everything and no-one can call them out. > Of course nobody wants to make it illegal to see propaganda. Then what exactly is this bill aiming for?
    - verdverm 3y ago
      A European social media company would not be facing the same backlash Russia, China, and Iran are at war with the West, the West has not acknowledged it widely yet
      - lmm 3y ago
        > A European social media company would not be facing the same backlash Maybe. Or maybe the US would find some excuse to ban them too. Or the same one - remember the US considers it appropriate to spy on and read the emails of the German chancellor. Conveniently, there isn't any major European social media to compare to.
    - 3y ago
likeclockwork 3y ago
Every item in my house is produced by this so-called enemy state.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  I am not saying I agree with grandparent, but I would like to point out that both your statement and grandparents statement could simultaneously be true with zero conflict between the two
  - likeclockwork 3y ago
    I'm just saying it's a bit late to start raving about "enemy state" influence after they outsourced the manufacturing capacity of the entire country to it.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      The capacity is actually pretty close between the US and China https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scorecard-how-the-us-compares-to-18-other-nations/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/global-manufacturing-scor... The difference is largely in the products produced, for example, no one is building anything close to the F-35, which is a significant export for the US. > America is a manufacturing superpower: Of the 22 manufacturing categories tracked by the U.N., the U.S. ranked first in six categories and second in 13 others, underscoring the breadth and competitiveness of American manufacturing. In only three sectors—apparel, motor vehicles and leather—did the U.S. fail to rank either first or second. From: https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semiconductor-electronics-us-competition-51661894538 https://www.barrons.com/articles/china-manufacturing-semicon... If we move beyond the US vs China to the West vs Authoritarians, the comparison becomes dominating
- tivert 3y ago
  > Every item in my house is produced by this so-called enemy state. Because Americans have been foolish and short sighted. So then they're presented with a choice: continue making the mistake or take the difficult steps to attempt to correct it.

nyokodo 3y ago

> Veto it on the grounds that it would cost Biden the election No it won’t. Firstly because the hammer won’t fall until months after the election, and secondly it’d be hard for China-hawk Trump who attempted the same thing during his presidency to take a pro-China position, but finally and most importantly because TikTok is disproportionately popular with young voters who are terrible at actually voting. Plus the move is popular with older likely voters.

ok_dad 3y ago
I’m not sure young people care who owns it as long as it’s there.

wannacboatmovie 3y ago

Do you care to elaborate on this? Because paying $5/gal gasoline and $8 for a carton of eggs is disastrous for me personally.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> Because paying $5/gal gasoline and $8 for a carton of eggs is disastrous for me personally. I get $5/gal gasoline being a bummer (not that I would notice since I have an EV), but where do you live where eggs cost $8 a carton? I can get 18 for < $5, that's like a cart 1.5. Or do you mean at the organic health food place, and they are handled via soft gloves or something? Seriously, I wonder if Trump supporters are just making bad buying decision and then blaming Bidenomics for it? When I lived in Switzerland, I had a lot of price shocks to go through, but my stipend was pretty high so I guess it made sense (more money, more expensive eggs). The recent inflation has been kind of like that (but my earnings went up a lot at the same time, maybe that's not usual?).
- hellojesus 3y ago
  > Seriously, I wonder if Trump supporters are just making bad buying decision and then blaming Bidenomics for it? People don't seem to realize that, although Biden hasn't helped reduce inflection, Trump and those before him all the way back to Clinton (exclusive) all poured gasoline that fueled this inflation fire.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Ya, let’s give some blame to Obama as well, and Biden was his vice president. We knew low interest rates for more than 20 years was going to mess things up, cheap money couldn’t last forever. I wish we could run the economy more like adults, not calling for a Fed ouster when they only cut rates by .25 during what the president at the time was calling the best economy ever.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- 3y ago

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

Biden seems to be pretty much doomed in the election anyway. Of course he might pull out an upset but it’s hard to pin it on this being the cause of his loss

huytersd 3y ago
Biden seems to be leading by 10% in most of the latest polls.
- rgbrenner 3y ago
  He's not leading the polls: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/202... Please vote.
nebula8804 3y ago
They might still yank him for someone else at the convention. Theres is precedent no?

huytersd 3y ago

If anything it’s going to help Biden win the election.