4 ms·

You don't even have to go that far. TikTok isn't available in China. (There's a Chinese app that's similar, but it isn't TikTok.)

api 2y ago
They realize that engagement farming not-actually-social media is toxic brain rot.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  It's more like, they don't want any place on the Internet that's a social network allowing uncensored exchange between Chinese people and the Western sphere of influence.
  - krapp 2y ago
    When they do it, it's totalitarian. But when we do it, it's merely sensible policy.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      I'm really tired of arguments like this. The US (and West as a whole) are not a bunch of angels, of course. But the kind of censorship, state-mandated propaganda, and market control you see from China is not even remotely comparable to the situation in the West. Equating the two is at best uninformed, at worst disingenuous or actively malicious.
      - krapp 2y ago
        Not yet, but this is an obvious step in the same direction, "banning" a social media platform to prevent exposure to foreign ideas. It's difficult not to assume the motives are similar, a need to control political narratives and manufacture consent for American policy.
        api 2y ago
        I don’t need TikTok for foreign ideas. I see them everywhere. For example while I don’t buy them I have absolutely heard the Russian arguments for Ukraine. You can find complete texts of every Putin speech online, not to mention thinkers like Alexandr Dugin. The Internet is absolutely boiling over with both pro and anti Israel arguments and propaganda too. You almost can’t even avoid it. If the powers that be don’t want me seeing arguments against US policy they are doing an awful job. The TikTok thing is about two things: trade unfairness and how it leverages addiction to push propaganda. Both points are valid, but the latter applies just as well to all modern social media.
        ajmurmann 2y ago
        To add to this: owning the platform and controlling what gets amplified is very different than posting information on someone else's platform which also is different from posting the information and disclosing your affiliation. I'm pretty sure we could easily get a strong consensus that there is zero issue in an official CCP account posting official CCP positions on Twitter or Facebook.
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        Isn't that just a slippery slope fallacy in its most pure form?
        krapp 2y ago
        Arguments to the effect that TikTok gives the Chinese government direct control over the minds of millions of Americans and that they plan to use it to corrupt and destroy America seem far more slippery and fallacious to me. No one cared about any of this until recently. I remember when the consensus on HN was that TikTok was a quirky platform that reminded people of the authenticity and creativity of the old web. Now all of a sudden people are talking about TikTok with the dreadful hyperbole they might use for nuclear bombs or chemical weapons. My instinct is to assume I'm being manipulated, and not by the red menace everyone tells me to fear.
      - hulitu 2y ago
        > But the kind of censorship, state-mandated propaganda, and market control you see from China is not even remotely comparable to the situation in the West. In West it is not state-mandated. Just state-sponsored and state-suggested.
  - bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
    Very good observation, I wonder if that's exactly how they think.
- jokethrowaway 2y ago
  I think it's the actual content. Tiktok promotes mental illness, fake influencer tricks and stupid dances, Douyin promotes heroic 3 year olds cooking eggs with chopsticks on a giant wok for their sick brothers.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > Tiktok promotes mental illness, fake influencer tricks and stupid dances You should see Youtube. /s

api 2y ago

They realize that engagement farming not-actually-social media is toxic brain rot.

mschuster91 2y ago
It's more like, they don't want any place on the Internet that's a social network allowing uncensored exchange between Chinese people and the Western sphere of influence.
- krapp 2y ago
  When they do it, it's totalitarian. But when we do it, it's merely sensible policy.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    I'm really tired of arguments like this. The US (and West as a whole) are not a bunch of angels, of course. But the kind of censorship, state-mandated propaganda, and market control you see from China is not even remotely comparable to the situation in the West. Equating the two is at best uninformed, at worst disingenuous or actively malicious.
    - krapp 2y ago
      Not yet, but this is an obvious step in the same direction, "banning" a social media platform to prevent exposure to foreign ideas. It's difficult not to assume the motives are similar, a need to control political narratives and manufacture consent for American policy.
      - api 2y ago
        I don’t need TikTok for foreign ideas. I see them everywhere. For example while I don’t buy them I have absolutely heard the Russian arguments for Ukraine. You can find complete texts of every Putin speech online, not to mention thinkers like Alexandr Dugin. The Internet is absolutely boiling over with both pro and anti Israel arguments and propaganda too. You almost can’t even avoid it. If the powers that be don’t want me seeing arguments against US policy they are doing an awful job. The TikTok thing is about two things: trade unfairness and how it leverages addiction to push propaganda. Both points are valid, but the latter applies just as well to all modern social media.
        ajmurmann 2y ago
        To add to this: owning the platform and controlling what gets amplified is very different than posting information on someone else's platform which also is different from posting the information and disclosing your affiliation. I'm pretty sure we could easily get a strong consensus that there is zero issue in an official CCP account posting official CCP positions on Twitter or Facebook.
      - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        Isn't that just a slippery slope fallacy in its most pure form?
        krapp 2y ago
        Arguments to the effect that TikTok gives the Chinese government direct control over the minds of millions of Americans and that they plan to use it to corrupt and destroy America seem far more slippery and fallacious to me. No one cared about any of this until recently. I remember when the consensus on HN was that TikTok was a quirky platform that reminded people of the authenticity and creativity of the old web. Now all of a sudden people are talking about TikTok with the dreadful hyperbole they might use for nuclear bombs or chemical weapons. My instinct is to assume I'm being manipulated, and not by the red menace everyone tells me to fear.
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > But the kind of censorship, state-mandated propaganda, and market control you see from China is not even remotely comparable to the situation in the West. In West it is not state-mandated. Just state-sponsored and state-suggested.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  Very good observation, I wonder if that's exactly how they think.
jokethrowaway 2y ago
I think it's the actual content. Tiktok promotes mental illness, fake influencer tricks and stupid dances, Douyin promotes heroic 3 year olds cooking eggs with chopsticks on a giant wok for their sick brothers.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > Tiktok promotes mental illness, fake influencer tricks and stupid dances You should see Youtube. /s