8 ms·
Do not buy a Hisense TV (or at least keep them offline)
- Kelteseth 3y agoThere is no TV OS, that I know of, that does not suffer from one of these issues: - Slow/laggy UI - Ads on the home screen - Sends a shit ton of telemetry home This is why all of my TV are never connected to the internet and only serve as output for my Apple TV. Sadly, I gave up on the cheaper Android TV boxes, because they all have the same issues with crappy software and even started to show ads.
- heresie-dabord 3y agoIn 2024, there are large LCDs with DisplayPort, HDMI, and speakers that can serve as the display in a home theatre. But for those who need a 65" wall of advertising, the Invisible Hand will provide.
- dgfitz 3y agoWhy are large tv sizes so derided?
- koolba 3y agoIt’s probably the same set of people that want us all to live in 400 sqft apartments and cannot fathom sitting more than four feet away from the screen.
- zen928 3y agoSour grapes from either their overbearing neck pain from staring at a 50 degree upward tilt to accommodate for their ugly fireplace mounting point, or from the seething hatred of being unable to fit it in their gaudy 400lb "entertainment center" wood furniture pieces that force them to compensate I laugh every time I see a livingroom with all furniture focused toward a fireplace. It truly reminds me how holdovers from out-of-touch lifestyles two+ generations ago still dominate some norms of interior decoration. Larger screens are objectively better in every way if you have the space.
- heresie-dabord 3y agoThe TV industry is notorious for the telemetry generated by "smart" TVs. Commercial "dumb" TV screens are available but are harder to find, and as I said, it's only recently that large computer LCDs (not TVs) have become available. But these are still not as large as recent gigantic smart TVs. So when most people want a bigger screen, they see little choice but to accept telemetry. The more privacy-aware people take measures against it.
- indrora 3y agoAnd the worst part is that the "dumb" TVs are expensive. This is mostly because Roku/etc are subsidizing the cost of the device so far down the line that it becomes impossible to argue for the better ones, especially from companies like NEC/Sharp who make Damn Good displays for business.
- piyuv 3y agoSame, but I keep my LG c1 connected to internet just to be able to turn it off from HomeKit. Never using its “smart” features though. Apple TV ftw.
- sundvor 3y agoHave used Windows PCs connected to my TVs since about 2006 .. so agree in principle. :-) My pet pieve with my current Samsung QLed 4K 65" (2016) is just how sluggish changing input sources is - when wanting to go between the Xbox and the PC. Have never tried any of its other features, can't imagine they'd be anything other than horrible. The display is a very nice monitor otherwise! Still very good colours. Windows with a Logitech media keyboard is awesome. Zwift, Spotify, Internet media all plays back very nicely.
- slau 3y agoYou don’t need that. Just enable CEC and let the ATV turn it off and on. My LG TV is completely offline, but I can still say “Hey Siri turn off the TV” and it works.
- Gualdrapo 3y agoFirst one being the problem with my Sony KDL-60W607B since day 1 (the youtube app is a pain in the butt), otherwise though it doesn't has too much sparkles and whistles it has been great this 10 years I've had it. I wish you could do something like swap whatever it has internally with the OS to switch it to a Pi or something like that - not something like a Chromecast or an external dongle that would require (1) another power socket, (2) another remote control and (3) switching back and forth between TV input and HDMI input.
- catlikesshrimp 3y ago1) try to use 2 or more usb ports in your tv to draw power 2) IR learning remote Beware, amazon link. This is just an example, not a quality product https://tinyurl.com/yks7kmxv https://tinyurl.com/yks7kmxv 3) I dont have a non-smart solution to that I have one of those tvs (kdl##w####) and yes, the youtube app is becoming unusable. I am quite sure someone might be telling us the party is over (that they want us to use a new tv)
- phantomathkg 3y agoThis is because all of them using low powered CPU/RAM. Similar to all other STB out there.
- Nextgrid 3y agoEven the shittiest STB-grade CPU should be perfectly capable of doing what the user wants out of their TV which is draw basic menus for settings and otherwise display the signal unaltered (the signal path is all in hardware anyway, the CPU isn't involved). The reason it's slow is because "growth & engagement" wants that slow CPU to be doing more ("suggestions" aka ads, telemetry, garbage overdesigned UI, etc) than actually necessary.
- 15155 3y agoA quality, high-performance UI can be done on a 200MHz MCU. Add a few advertisements, three different telemetry systems, etc. and things change.
- km3k 3y agoTVs with Google TV that you put into Basic mode (https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10408998?hl=en https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10408998?hl=en ) fulfill most of that, though they're probably still sending some data back. I have my firewall set to block everything except the domain that handles the firmware updates.
- jtwaleson 3y agoMy 6 year old Philips Android tv gradually got super slow. At some point it had a problem and I had to reset it to factory settings and then I noticed how snappy everything was, like it was when new! Now I keep it disconnected from the internet and use a google tv chromecast instead. Works much much better!
- gn4d 3y agoThe laggy UI is what irritates me the most. I do not have a smart TV, though I do have a cable box, and there is no excuse for an interface to lag in [current year], or even for anything in the past 20 years, which serves to merely display a list of program listings. It's frigging text! Built-in vehicle interfaces are also perennial offenders.
- deely3 3y agoTLDR: TV connected to the same network hides task bar, graphical settings in Windows, and cause other issues. But why and how?
- ErneX 3y agoIt’s explained on the solution link: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/1339707/help-with-figuring-out-what-is-causing-waitchain-d https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/1339707/...
- itomato 3y agoTV somehow became the main display. "Huzzah!"
- DarkmSparks 3y agolooks like its a bug in windows where lots of new network display devices eventually corrupts the registry, and the TV gets a new identity on a regular basis - probably to protect the users identity.
- AshamedCaptain 3y agoAnd the guys conclude it's the TVs fault, not Windows. Sorry, flashbacks to the debates in The Old New Thing where Raymond would claim people blame Windows when it breaks broken software...
- ugjka 3y agobecause windows is buggy too
- hermanradtke 3y agoThe screenshot of https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/1339707/help-with-figuring-out-what-is-causing-waitchain-d https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/1339707/... says this: > The root cause is the TV generates random UUIDs for UPNP network discovery every few minutes. That means it poses as a new device. This caused windows to add it to the device list (Device Association Framework, aka DAF) as a new device. This means now 1000s of devices (which is the same device) filled the device tree causing it to enumerate forever. Thus the "deadlock". > TaskManager uses DasHost to enumerate devices for some reason, so that hangs. > Bluetooth relies on device discovery, so that also hangs, and Settings app along with it. > Network discovery in file explorer obviously also needs Device discovery, so that also hangs.
- iaaan 3y agoIt sounds more like Windows has a denial of service bug? I'm not sure how this is Hisense's fault
- hnlmorg 3y agoIt’s both. It shouldn’t be creating a new UPnP UUID every few minutes. That’s clearly not good behaviour. However it does also highlight a denial of service in Windows.
- nilsherzig 3y agoSo I could just DOS every Windows PC in my local network? Sounds more like a Windows issue
- beardyw 3y agoYes, I thought it's behaviour was something like a DOS attack. If you did it deliberately it certainly would be. I am no Windows fan, but this behaviour by the TV seems to be unreasonable.
- akerl_ 3y agoIf you’re designing a device that’s going to sit on a network, you need to build it to handle unreasonable peers.
- saltminer 3y agoYes. If you built a UPNP spammer, it could effectively create a persistent DOS. Considering how many corporate networks rely on UPNP for printers and the like, you could really make life hell for IT departments if you were to embed this in a malicious invoice.
- armchairhacker 3y ago> The root cause is the TV generates random UUIDs for UPNP network discovery every few minutes. That means it poses as a new device. This caused windows to add it to the device list (Device Association Framework, aka DAF) as a new device. This means now 1000s of devices (which is the same device) filled the device tree causing it to enumerate forever. Thus the "deadlock". Why is the TV pretending it’s a new device?
- rvnx 3y agoWe can see a positive edge to that, it's like Mac address randomization, if you can't know the UUID of your TV, how can someone else know ?
- brnt 3y agoBecause the TV signals it somewhere, just not the owners.
- wutwutwat 3y agoPretty sure Mac randomization is part of the ipv6 spec, and our Apple products have been doing it for years now. The tv can do whatever the heck it wants because if it’s not this thing malfunctioning it’ll be your toaster. Anything concerning networking needs to handle bs like this and not fall on its face. My question would be why are windows installs tracking every device on the network? Sure file server discovery, etc, but why’s it storing them long term, esp if it is overloaded with them, why would it not be setup to do LRU or otherwise purge records. Seems silly to store entries until you have a critical failure.
- fifteen1506 3y agoWell, props for fixing the problem. But the problem is Windows, not the TV. I wonder what to take of this. Use Linux? Or at least set your home network as "Public" instead of "Private" (clearly a workaround, not a solution, because then (s)he would need to enable RDP on Public networks.
- wizzwizz4 3y agoI'd say that the TV is to blame: it's claiming to be tens of thousands of different TVs, and Windows is dutifully keeping track of them and their configurations. Sure, Windows should be able to handle more devices on the home network than could fit within your average warehouse, but an issue like that should only crop up if you actually, y'know, try to do that. (Btw, your parentheses are unbalanced: https://xkcd.com/859/ https://xkcd.com/859/. And the author uses they/she pronouns (not ‘(s)he’): it says so at the top left of the page.)
- anonzzzies 3y agoTVs became a nightmare… is there really no market for pay 1000 more and get a non spyware, repairable tv? I know the answer. Same as with buying away ads. The greater fuckery makes more money even than the rich people plonking down money.
- Rinzler89 3y agoThere's digital signage displays (like the ones you find in airports, shops, practices, etc) but those are only sold to private entities, not direct to consumers, if you can score one of those on ebay, but you'll get no warranty obviously and energy consumption might be higher and missing fancy picture and processing modes. Or just buy a normal TV and never connect it to the internet, what's so hard about that? Cheaper than paying more and getting less for a digital signage screen.
- 15155 3y agohttps://www.cdw.com/product/nec-e558-e-series-55-class-54.6-viewable-led-backlit-lcd-display-4k/6464023 https://www.cdw.com/product/nec-e558-e-series-55-class-54.6-... These devices aren't at all exclusive or difficult to purchase.
- Rinzler89 3y agoDepends where you live.
- thaumasiotes 3y agoIt does? https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Business-QE43T-Commercial-LH43QETELGCXZA/dp/B08DQDV4S3/ https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Business-QE43T-Commercial-LH4... Where would you live that they would be hard to find?
- Rinzler89 3y agoWhat's the pros of that signage TV versus any consumer TV? It's still a "smart TV" running Tizen OS from Samsung so high chances of similar software shittyness.
- eloisant 3y agoDo not buy a Windows PC (or at least keep it offline).
- thsksbd 3y agoAs someone who hasn't used windows since Win7, I'm amazed people are blaming windows for this. While all software is buggy to some extent, Hisense TV is probably maliciously changing their UUID so users cant block their telemetry, or their ads, etc.
- kentrado 3y agoLets say it isn't a TV but a malicious person trying to cause damage to your system. It is a security issue on the side of the OS. On the side of TV, it is also bad. Therefore, both the TV and the OS have blame in this.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> Hisense TV is probably maliciously changing their UUID so users cant block their telemetry I'm not sure it will. If this was a scenario that caused DHCP to continually issue new IPs - this will likely cause operational issues. Two I can think of are DHCP exhaustion and routine loss of device connectivity.
- pquki4 3y agoWhy is UUID related to telemetry? If you use router level AdBlock -- that is, DNS filtering -- lots of ads and telemetry go away by themselves, and what UUID is used is irrelevant. Of course, most people don't do that, but still I don't see how changing the UUID helps prevent blocking telemetry/ads.
- rpozarickij 3y ago> Hisense TV is probably maliciously changing their UUID so users cant block their telemetry, or their ads, etc. I'm not defending Hisense and I'm not saying that this can't be the intention but it's a good idea to keep Hanlon's razor in mind in situations like this.
- indrora 3y agoApplying hanlons razor to this (as another comment has) this is likely some process that either a) fails to store or b) doesn't bother storing the UUID and thus generates a fresh new one every time it runs, which must be pretty often, and thus causes this.
- PaulRobinson 3y agoMy main TV is a Philips OLED TV, which has some weird Android derivative baked in, but I've never connected it up to anything other than a HDMI cable, so it can't phone home and it can't trash my local WiFi network with these sort of shenanigans. Most "smart" devices are utter garbage. I found a seller of non-smart TVs, which manufacture here in the UK, which made me particularly interested - Cello: https://celloelectronics.com/model/televisions/ https://celloelectronics.com/model/televisions/ (you can filter for non-smart TVs). The problem? The picture quality and sound of the one I got (TBF, the cheapest medium-sized TV they sell) is not great. Fine for a spare bedroom for occasional use so a guest can watch something short, or in an office where I might want the news on, fine. But I couldn't watch a film on it, and it's nowhere near the level of my main TV. Given that no smart TV manufacturer is ever going to get a single byte of data from me they can sell, I guess the joke is on them? I wish I didn't have to do this dance though: give me a smart TV where I can get the apps I choose, but the manufacturer is not ramming it full of spyware... that would be amazing.
- matja 3y ago> never connected it up to anything other than a HDMI cable, so it can't phone home Well, you're lucky that your equipment doesn't use the Ethernet channel in HDMI 1.4 then :) you can put a piece of Kapton tape over the HEC pin to make sure that doesn't happen.
- saltminer 3y agoIf you do this, keep in mind that ARC (audio return channel) is an alternate configuration for the HEC pins. If the cable is going to a sound system, you cannot cover those pins (unless you have another audio-out cable, like TOSLINK, in which case you wouldn't connect to the sound system via HDMI to begin with).
- jsheard 3y ago> but I've never connected it up to anything other than a HDMI cable, so it can't phone home Good news! HDMI supports Ethernet backhaul, which isn't widely used, but in theory your TV could access the internet through the HDMI source you have plugged into it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#HEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#HEC
- nubinetwork 3y agoI'd be curious to see how avahi handles this... but I don't feel like buying a 50" tv. I have a 40" and it's big enough. :)
- bradley13 3y agoWhy does anyone use a TV anymore? What does a "Smart TV" offer that you can't do better in a different way? For years now, actually more than a decade, we just use a home-theater projector (Epson, fwiw). Audio goes into our stereo system. Set up a media center to feed the projector. If you still have cable (or equivalent), hook up the box from your cable company.
- maipen 3y ago> Why doesn't everyone do everything like I do? What are you even talking about???
- traverseda 3y agoMy apartment is a bit too bright for a projector, and I don't want to always watch stuff only in the dark with all the curtains drawn. I'm not ritualizing it. Sometimes I'll leave a podcast or old episodes of the Simpsons on while I cook (open concept living-room/kitchen).
- dasloop 3y agoSize against everything else?. image quality will be better in a TV with similar price. Also convenience.
- ns407 3y agoWhy doesn't everyone have a room with perfect lighting, use special paint or buy a screen to project onto, buy external audio equipment, manage cables and mount the projector all for what is worse image quality than modern oleds. Gee guy, I really don't know. What a hot take you've got here.
- whamlastxmas 3y agoThe same point can be made without snark
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> Why does anyone use a TV anymore? What does a "Smart TV" offer that you can't do better in a different way? For years now, actually more than a decade, we just use a home-theater projector It's a bit of a squeeze for a smallish bedroom. Or an 1000 sqft home w/ 3+ kids, a single wide, a 5th wheel, a shotgun home. Ya know. Places people live.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Retr0id 3y agoIt's obviously bad that the TV is doing this, but the way Windows reacts to it is worse. Presumably any device on the LAN could trigger this exact same DoS failure mode (and much faster, if done deliberately). An annoyance on a home network, but could cause absolute mayhem in a corporate setting.
- saltminer 3y agoI was thinking the same thing. Lots of corporations rely on UPNP for printers and the like, so if you were to embed a UPNP spammer in a malicious invoice...
- aragonite 3y agoApparently the same issue has been reported with Philips TV [1] and Fritz!Box [2] as well. [1] https://github.com/home-assistant/core/issues/73643#issuecomment-1161563141 https://github.com/home-assistant/core/issues/73643#issuecom... [2] https://forum.openwrt.org/t/minidlna-creates-new-media-server-with-every-reboot-random-server-uuid-on-reboot/50057/14 https://forum.openwrt.org/t/minidlna-creates-new-media-serve...
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> I tried to open the system settings, (start ms-settings: Access is denied." despite admin mode) > I manually backed up everything important from my main PC drive (as I could not access the windows backup program because it lived in settings!!!!!!!!) Son #3 hates that System Settings is restricted to ≤1 instance by design. Windows only unchanging feature is that it is impossible to work with 2 Settings Windows simultaneously. Working with multiple windows was kind of the point of Windows in the first place. MS doubles down on that problem by continually pruning-away legacy settings options. Their end game seems to be limiting all system option access to just one app - an app that can be downed by janky TV firmware. #3 is right.
- hintymad 3y agoI never got why one needed its TV to be online. The smart apps on TV are slow, have lousy UIs, and most likely badly implemented. A device like game console or AppleTV is much better alternative.
- kkfx 3y agoEhm... It's a Windows bug, not a TV one, despite I'm pretty sure the TV is crap. And Windows...........
- RecycledEle 3y agoIf electronics and software manufacturers were held liable for their products, we would not deal with this stuff very often.
- ivanhoe 2y agoOr do not buy Windows? :P