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From https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1779885123363635572.html#google_vignette https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1779885123363635572.html#... "If the bill b

From https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1779885123363635572.html#google_vignette https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1779885123363635572.html#... "If the bill becomes law, any company or individual that provides ANY service whatsoever may be forced to assist in NSA surveillance, as long as they have access to equipment on which communications are transmitted or stored—such as routers, servers, cell towers, etc." We have the tech (and have had for some time) to prevent this happening. I don't know why some intrepid coder hasn't released an easy to deploy, self-hosted, p2p encrypted platform allowing limited sharing of files, comms, sites etc. I was involved in the development of something like this, and local government (AU) regulation made it untenable, but there are countries where this could be doable without repercussions. The vast majority of traffic I care about on the internet is related to my close peers and friends. This could all be completely private. The intersections between other communities could be done with ACLs, the largely public stuff can still be hosted on servers. The 2 main problems this faces are that it's adversarial to advertising and analysis, and that it doesn't involve payment to a 3rd party for hosting / processing. Both of these are positives in my view.

nprateem 2y ago
No, the main problem it faces is outside the highly security conscious/paranoid crowd, nobody cares so it'll never gain critical mass and be useful.
Thorrez 2y ago
The X thread says even service providers who come into your house can be forced to steal data from your computer, e.g. plumbers. So storing your data locally won't be sufficient, it also needs to be tamperproof against physical attackers.
- Finnucane 2y ago
  If the government can force a plumber to that, can they force the plumber to show up to the job on time? Will I be charged for the extra time? ("Hey honey, the plumber picked up my call on the first ring. Is that suspicious?")
  - hn8305823 2y ago
    Paying the plumber or janitor to spy is as old as dirt.
    - jonathankoren 2y ago
      Hell, I remember a proposal to encourage that during the GWB administration for “terrorism”. I wish I could find it, but Google is incapable of returning anything from before 2023 any more.
- fransje26 2y ago
  It is deeply ironic that not that long ago, a president fell because of the use of "plumbers" to gather information.. How times have changed. Not for the best in that respect..
commandlinefan 2y ago
> an easy to deploy, self-hosted, p2p encrypted platform allowing limited sharing of files They have: Freenet, I2P, Tor... none have ever really taken off, _because_ they can be used to circumvent government monitoring. At the end of the day, we'll submit to panopticon censorship because most of us _want_ panopticon censorship.
- geostupid 2y ago
  All hail Bentham!
- squigz 2y ago
  > At the end of the day, we'll submit to panopticon censorship because most of us _want_ panopticon censorship. This is a pretty big claim that I feel bears some explanation as to why you feel that way
  - chrismarlow9 2y ago
    I don't have any hard evidence but anecdotally I can say that when Snowden, Cambridge Analytica, and really anything else in this space happens nobody I talk to outside of tech workers really cares. Most responses I get are jokes along the line of "of you mean they'll see the $15 in my bank account and offer to pay my electric?".
    - squigz 2y ago
      Many people have slightly more pressing things to worry about - such as having $15 in their bank account
      - chrismarlow9 2y ago
        I'm confused are you summarizing my comment?
        squigz 2y ago
marcosdumay 2y ago
> I don't know why some intrepid coder hasn't released an easy to deploy, self-hosted, p2p encrypted platform allowing limited sharing of files, comms, sites etc. I tried this once. When I was almost ready to release something my government started to illegally persecute companies that provided privacy on the internet, and the heads of the Judiciary power started to comment that hiding your data is criminal.
- docmars 2y ago
  That's discouraging to hear. This is why the U.S. Constitution's 4th amendment is so important. The right to privacy isn't only to give citizens peace of mind, but also to prevent governments from tyranizing freely using dissenting information to fuel their persecution.
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    Oh, my country's Constitution has it clearly and uneditable. It doesn't help when all of the heads of the Judiciary and Executive decide the text means something else.
  - gen220 2y ago
    Unfortunately we've demonstrated a willingness and ability to throw the 4th amendment out the window (see the Patriot Act) if you can reference a scary enough boogeyman. Normally the Supreme Court as an institution works to keep the other branches in check, but it feels like we're in a new phase of the judicial branch, nowadays, at least from a 4th Amendment perspective.
barbariangrunge 2y ago
You can’t use tech to solve a legal issue like this because you’re either breaking a law, or just kicking the problem a few years into the future, waiting for a new law that takes your tech into consideration. The best response is to fight it hard at the public opinion level, and then the legislation becomes untenable But if that fails, tech workarounds might be a lot better than nothing
fsflover 2y ago
> I don't know why some intrepid coder hasn't released an easy to deploy, self-hosted, p2p encrypted platform allowing limited sharing of files, comms, sites etc. You mean https://geti2p.ne https://geti2p.ne?
downrightmike 2y ago
https://github.com/StreisandEffect/streisand https://github.com/StreisandEffect/streisand Streisand sets up a new server running your choice of WireGuard, OpenConnect, OpenSSH, OpenVPN, Shadowsocks, sslh, Stunnel, or a Tor bridge. It also generates custom instructions for all of these services. At the end of the run you are given an HTML file with instructions that can be shared with friends, family members, and fellow activists.

nprateem 2y ago

No, the main problem it faces is outside the highly security conscious/paranoid crowd, nobody cares so it'll never gain critical mass and be useful.

Thorrez 2y ago

The X thread says even service providers who come into your house can be forced to steal data from your computer, e.g. plumbers. So storing your data locally won't be sufficient, it also needs to be tamperproof against physical attackers.

Finnucane 2y ago
If the government can force a plumber to that, can they force the plumber to show up to the job on time? Will I be charged for the extra time? ("Hey honey, the plumber picked up my call on the first ring. Is that suspicious?")
- hn8305823 2y ago
  Paying the plumber or janitor to spy is as old as dirt.
  - jonathankoren 2y ago
    Hell, I remember a proposal to encourage that during the GWB administration for “terrorism”. I wish I could find it, but Google is incapable of returning anything from before 2023 any more.
fransje26 2y ago
It is deeply ironic that not that long ago, a president fell because of the use of "plumbers" to gather information.. How times have changed. Not for the best in that respect..

commandlinefan 2y ago

> an easy to deploy, self-hosted, p2p encrypted platform allowing limited sharing of files They have: Freenet, I2P, Tor... none have ever really taken off, _because_ they can be used to circumvent government monitoring. At the end of the day, we'll submit to panopticon censorship because most of us _want_ panopticon censorship.

geostupid 2y ago
All hail Bentham!
squigz 2y ago
> At the end of the day, we'll submit to panopticon censorship because most of us _want_ panopticon censorship. This is a pretty big claim that I feel bears some explanation as to why you feel that way
- chrismarlow9 2y ago
  I don't have any hard evidence but anecdotally I can say that when Snowden, Cambridge Analytica, and really anything else in this space happens nobody I talk to outside of tech workers really cares. Most responses I get are jokes along the line of "of you mean they'll see the $15 in my bank account and offer to pay my electric?".
  - squigz 2y ago
    Many people have slightly more pressing things to worry about - such as having $15 in their bank account
    - chrismarlow9 2y ago
      I'm confused are you summarizing my comment?
      - squigz 2y ago

marcosdumay 2y ago

> I don't know why some intrepid coder hasn't released an easy to deploy, self-hosted, p2p encrypted platform allowing limited sharing of files, comms, sites etc. I tried this once. When I was almost ready to release something my government started to illegally persecute companies that provided privacy on the internet, and the heads of the Judiciary power started to comment that hiding your data is criminal.

docmars 2y ago
That's discouraging to hear. This is why the U.S. Constitution's 4th amendment is so important. The right to privacy isn't only to give citizens peace of mind, but also to prevent governments from tyranizing freely using dissenting information to fuel their persecution.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  Oh, my country's Constitution has it clearly and uneditable. It doesn't help when all of the heads of the Judiciary and Executive decide the text means something else.
- gen220 2y ago
  Unfortunately we've demonstrated a willingness and ability to throw the 4th amendment out the window (see the Patriot Act) if you can reference a scary enough boogeyman. Normally the Supreme Court as an institution works to keep the other branches in check, but it feels like we're in a new phase of the judicial branch, nowadays, at least from a 4th Amendment perspective.

barbariangrunge 2y ago

You can’t use tech to solve a legal issue like this because you’re either breaking a law, or just kicking the problem a few years into the future, waiting for a new law that takes your tech into consideration. The best response is to fight it hard at the public opinion level, and then the legislation becomes untenable But if that fails, tech workarounds might be a lot better than nothing

fsflover 2y ago

> I don't know why some intrepid coder hasn't released an easy to deploy, self-hosted, p2p encrypted platform allowing limited sharing of files, comms, sites etc. You mean https://geti2p.ne https://geti2p.ne?

downrightmike 2y ago

https://github.com/StreisandEffect/streisand https://github.com/StreisandEffect/streisand Streisand sets up a new server running your choice of WireGuard, OpenConnect, OpenSSH, OpenVPN, Shadowsocks, sslh, Stunnel, or a Tor bridge. It also generates custom instructions for all of these services. At the end of the run you are given an HTML file with instructions that can be shared with friends, family members, and fellow activists.